Praveen Kumar dropped from Tests!?! (and also Harbhajan)

by jbd349 Fri 28 Oct 2011, 5:29 pm

I just can't understand the logic behind dropping the only bowler who impressed in England in favor of a couple of rookies, no matter how much potential they have. On the positive front, Harbhajan has been dropped and Ashwin and Ojha seem to be competing over his spot.

India Squad:

M S Dhoni (capt & wk)
Gautam Gambhir
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
VVS Laxman
Yuvraj Singh
R Ashwin
Pragyan Ojha
Ishant Sharma
Umesh Yadav
Virat Kohli
Varun Aaron
Ajinkya Rahane
Rahul Sharma

by Demon Racer Fri 28 Oct 2011, 5:40 pm

Why has the home side selected a 15 man squad? Bizarre, normally for a home series you see a 12 or 13 man squad depending on conditions. India clearly a) haven't got a clue what their best side is or b) they are using this series as a look see at players like Rahane, Ashwin, R Sharma etc

by Gregers Fri 28 Oct 2011, 5:47 pm

Presume its to look at other players. Who are they playing?

Praveen rested I guess, Harby looked disinterested in the whole England series

Sehwag/Rahane
Gambhir
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
Virat
Dhoni (c) (wk)
Ashwin
Ishant
Yadav
Aaron

That looks like a great side

by Demon Racer Fri 28 Oct 2011, 5:49 pm

Gregers wrote:Presume its to look at other players. Who are they playing?

Praveen rested I guess, Harby looked disinterested in the whole England series

Sehwag/Rahane
Gambhir
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
Virat
Dhoni (c) (wk)
Ashwin
Ishant
Yadav
Aaron

That looks like a great side

Playing in India against the West Indies Gregers. I thought R Jadeja would've been in with a shout to bat 7 and bowl his left arm spin.

by Gregers Fri 28 Oct 2011, 5:51 pm

Cheers Demon

Well possibly Jadeja over Laxman then. Think Virat should play at 5/6 he has all the talent in the world.

And as they are playing the windies who aren't exactly a top test nation then it makes sense to rest some players. Sachin to score hundred number 100 then

by Demon Racer Fri 28 Oct 2011, 5:53 pm

Gregers wrote:Cheers Demon

Well possibly Jadeja over Laxman then. Think Virat should play at 5/6 he has all the talent in the world.

And as they are playing the windies who aren't exactly a top test nation then it makes sense to rest some players. Sachin to score hundred number 100 then

I thought it would've been wise to play an pretty young side, the Rahane's, Kohli's, Rohit Sharma's etc. I can't see the West Indies posing much threat as they are all over the place against Bangladesh's army of spinners!

by Gregers Fri 28 Oct 2011, 5:55 pm

Indeed but I guess Sachin/Dravid/Laxman pick themselves really.

Hopefully the young guns have a good showing as well.

Rohit is injured atm isn't he?

by Leff Fri 28 Oct 2011, 5:56 pm

Batting still looks strong, but weak as always in the pace department.

by Demon Racer Fri 28 Oct 2011, 5:59 pm

Gregers wrote:Indeed but I guess Sachin/Dravid/Laxman pick themselves really.

Hopefully the young guns have a good showing as well.

Rohit is injured atm isn't he?

I was on Cricinfo earlier and it said Rohit scored 60 odd for Mumbai on Monday, but as the you the old boys are automatic picks.

It was refreshing to see India field a young side in the recently concluded one day series, and most of their young players look promising, so 3 Tests against poor opposition is a good way to break them into Test cricket.

by Gregers Fri 28 Oct 2011, 6:10 pm

Oh maybe he isn't injured then.

Weak in the pace department? Aaron, Ishant, Yadav...

by Leff Fri 28 Oct 2011, 6:11 pm

I hope they give preference to Kohli over Yuvraj for all test matches vs WI, with Australia tour in mind. Yuvraj is a useless player outside the subcontinent in test matches.

by Guest Fri 28 Oct 2011, 6:44 pm

Staggered that kumar has been dropped..

however i notice that there's still no room for Ojha?

by msp83 Fri 28 Oct 2011, 6:53 pm

At the outset, well done to the selectors for not picking Harbhajan Singh on the back of a T-20 performance in the CLT-20. A very crucial moment for the Offy. At least now, he has to start applying his brain, and first admit to himself that he hasn't been performing. Go back to domestic cricket, try and rediscover the touch, and make the side on performance and form, not on past glories.
R Ashwin has a big chance here. This is his opportunity to establish himself as India's number 1 spinner in all formats.
Playing in India, the logic suggest India should go in with 2 spinners. So, Ojha and Rahul Sharma will have to fight it out for the 2nd spinner's role.
Ojha has had a splendid county season. But I think he has had his chances at the highest level, and Rahul Sharma, who's style of bowling has broad similarities with that of Anil Kumble(not suggesting he's the next Kumble), should be given a go. He can be useful lower down the order with the bat as well.

by msp83 Fri 28 Oct 2011, 7:11 pm

Good to see Sehwag and Tendulkar coming back, and very good to see MS Dhoni hasn't been rested(there were reports to that effect), although one has to feel for the man. but tests are very important, and he can be rested for the WI ODIs, and if India manage to win the first 2 matches, even for the 3rd test.

by msp83 Fri 28 Oct 2011, 7:13 pm

Virat Kohli has earned his test recall, and the number 6 position should see a straight fight between him and Yuvraj Singh.
Ajinkya Rahane rightly gets exposed to the test environment, and I am sure the experience will do a world of good to the young mans already fine temprament, and help him improve his game. He, Kohli, and Pujara are most likely to form the core of India's next generation batting.

by msp83 Fri 28 Oct 2011, 7:15 pm

The selection of the pace unit has thrown surprises, one of which is truly shocking, strange, and baffling. What on earth has Praveen Kumar done wrong to lose his well earned test place? 25 wickets in the last 6 test matches. Had a fine tour to the West Indies, and was India's best bowler in England by a country-mile. And he often provided useful lower order resistance with the bat, with great gusto. Unless he's injured, I must say he's been very badly ill-treated, and I am truly appalled. People might say he bowls too slow for international cricket, won't be getting the helpful conditions that he got in England. But then PK swings the ball even on glass top, he surprised all through his performance. I was a doubter earlier, but he earned every bit of his time in the test side, and unlike many others, has the backing of recent form.

by msp83 Fri 28 Oct 2011, 7:16 pm

Aaron is one for the future, but his lack of first class experience might be a problem. So may be they will start with Yadav in the first match.

by msp83 Fri 28 Oct 2011, 7:18 pm

CF, Ojha is very much there, although I doubt whether he deserves this chance.

by guildfordbat Fri 28 Oct 2011, 7:40 pm

msp83 wrote:CF, Ojha is very much there, although I doubt whether he deserves this chance.

Msp - You may have a case in believing that Ojha has not performed well enough for long enough. However, on current form - well, the end of the last County Championship season - the Dodger's pretty much unrivalled.

His cumulative figures from four CC matches were:
150.4 - 52 - 311 - 24 for an average under 13.

Certainly a lot better tham most of his countrymen managed here this season.

by Mad for Chelsea Fri 28 Oct 2011, 8:26 pm

Some thoughts from me:

1) If Kumar isn't rested or injured but has simply been dropped it's an utterly atrocious decision, he's done everything that could be asked of him. Having said that he looked just a bit tired in the recent ODI series, having bowled about a third of their overs in England, so maybe he's being rested.

2) The pace options look a bit dodgy to me: Sharma is hit and miss (and more often miss), and while I thought both Yadav and Aaron showed promise against England, they both look raw to me.

3) Dropping Harbajan is the right call, he hasn't been good for a couple of years, bowling too defensively IMO, and needs a kick up the backside. It's clear (and maybe a consequence of T20) that he hates being hit, so just bowls defensive lines all day. The best batting sides would just milk him all day.

4) Good to see Rahul Sharma in there, I like the look of him, but again he's going to have to bowl more attackingly than in the IPL.

5) The batting is good, Kohli deserves his recall, Raina still isn't a test batsman so good he's been left out, and it's good to see Rahane in there. My one caveat is on Indian pitches against WI I can't see them being tested that much so not sure how much this will tell us. Remember Raina did really well against the WI, "everyone" thought he'd cracked it, and he then went on to have a pretty dismal England tour. Right move though.

by ShankyCricket Fri 28 Oct 2011, 8:30 pm

Praveen has been rested guys.

by Leff Fri 28 Oct 2011, 8:38 pm

I know nothing about Yadav and Rahul Sharma (is he Ishant's brother?).

Would someone kindly enlighten me of what they have done so far?

Thanks.

by Mad for Chelsea Fri 28 Oct 2011, 8:46 pm

Yadav played the first three ODIs against England (I think it was the first three) and did OK, looked promising if a bit erratic IMO. Rahul Sharma is a very promising young leggie who had an excellent IPL. Again, looks promising but tests are very different from hit-and-giggle stuff... No relation to Ishant.

by Leff Fri 28 Oct 2011, 8:51 pm

Thanks, Chelsea.

It's interesting how similar the bowling stats of part-time bowler, Sehwag and primary bowler, Ojha are.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=bowling_strike_rate;qualmin1=10;qualval1=wickets;spanmax1=28+Oct+2011;spanmin1=28+Oct+2001;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

I am surprised M Kartik played in only 4 tests. His stats look better than Ojha's.

by Mike Selig Fri 28 Oct 2011, 9:11 pm

Leff wrote:
I am surprised M Kartik played in only 4 tests. His stats look better than Ojha's.

Kartik's face didn't fit somehow. There are many rumours that his omission was largely political. In some sense he was unlucky as his peak coincided with that of Kumble and Harbajhan.

Rahul Sharma looks like a Kumble-type bowler. Will be interesting to see how he does when batsmen don't need to attack.

by anu_d Sat 29 Oct 2011, 6:57 am

jbd349 wrote:I just can't understand the logic behind dropping the only bowler who impressed in England in favor of a couple of rookies,

RESTED.
Not the most sensible thing to do IMO also...but not dropped, only rsted to test the two pacers in preparation for Aus

by anu_d Sat 29 Oct 2011, 8:50 am

It's a mistake to not have either of praveen or vinay...they are both Ranji veterans with a lot pf experience in using the ball as a seamer in indian conditions including reverse.

yadav and aaron need a few more Ranji seasons...especially aaron.
it's one thing to ball fast......it requires some experience to figure and learn the art of scheming/planning to take wickets in the longer version.
That is why aaron's FC record is medicore....as is Yadav's but better than Aaron's
but aaron and Yadav both have potential.

almost the same rationale applies to Rahul sharma...medicore ranji record, not experienced in bowling in the longer form of the game....except that he doesn't have the potential.
the only way he is similar to Kumble is in so much as not spinning the leg-break...doesn't have the skiddy slider or the googly or the flipper or dozens of crafty variations Kumble had.

Poor man's Kumble....in fact a Pauper's Kumble.

a_D

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:04 am

Ojha if he plays is probably on a last chance at test level.

i think he should play IMO

by anu_d Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:08 am

cricketfan90 wrote:Ojha if he plays is probably on a last chance at test level.

i think he should play IMO

Ojha did well recently playing for a county ( surrey I think) and then in the Irani trophy, whihc is tradtionally a selection trial at the start of the season..... he was the best bowler from eitehr sides on a flat pitch.

Mishra was unfortunate....to have gotten to play in the 4th test in England......and his medicore performace there overshadowed his abilities on indian pitch.

I would have kept Jadeja or Mishra in for Rahul sharma

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:09 am

anu_d wrote:
cricketfan90 wrote:Ojha if he plays is probably on a last chance at test level.

i think he should play IMO

Ojha did well recently playing for a county ( surrey I think) and then in the Irani trophy, whihc is tradtionally a selection trial at the start of the season..... he was the best bowler from eitehr sides on a flat pitch.

Mishra was unfortunate....to have gotten to play in the 4th test in England......and his medicore performace there overshadowed his abilities on indian pitch.

I would have kept Jadeja or Mishra in for Rahul sharma

so what anyone turns it on an indian pitch, every spinner has some ablility on indian pitches :facepalm

by anu_d Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:12 am

cricketfan90 wrote:
so what anyone turns it on an indian pitch, every spinner has some ablility on indian pitches :facepalm

what happened to Swann and Brothwick when they played on Indian pitches recently

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:14 am

they still turned it, which is what u said they do, indians are just good players of spin

by anu_d Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:20 am

I meant Mishra has abily on indian pitches.
by ability I mean wkt takeing ability
and should have been persisted with ahead of rahul sharma

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:27 am

Mishra appears to be a better batsman than bowler.

by anu_d Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:33 am

the rationale explained by the selectors

Praveen Kumar has been rested as the selectors wanted to give him a break as he has been playing non-stop since the tour to the West Indies in early June. Kumar also picked up a niggle during the last ODI against England in Kolkata.
The selectors were divided over Harbhajan's inclusion for West Indies series and the committee concluded that the leading spinner would benefit by playing Ranji Trophy matches for Punjab at the start of the season.

Unorthodox off-spinner Ravichandran Ashwin, leg-spinner Rahul Sharma and left-arm spinner Pragyan Ojha are in the 15-member squad picked for the first Test to be played in New Delhi from November 6.

Ishant Sharma, back after recuperating from an ankle injury, Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron — both of whom clock 140 kmph-plus — will form the pace attack. Yadav, Aaron, Ashwin, Sharma and Mumbai batsman Ajinkya Rahane, who opened the innings in the recent games against England, are in the Test squad for the first time.

The idea of including Yadav and Aaron in the Test team was to access their performance before the tour to Australia. “We spoke about the tour of Australia also and we are looking at the future,” chairman of selectors Krishnamachary Srikkanth said.

There is consensus within the national selection committee that the senior off-spinner, Harbhajan, should be part of the Test squad when the team tours Australia, unless his form dips drastically while playing Ranji Trophy, but the same cannot be said about the immediate future of Raina as a Test batsman.

“We pick the squads on the basis of the current form and at the moment, Ashwin is our first choice. Let him (Harbhajan) play some domestic cricket and prove his form, only then we will consider (his case),” said a source.

Raina's Achilles heel has been the short ball, though he made a half-century in the first Test at Lord's he failed in the next three Tests. While Raina is a vital cog in the wheel in the shorter formats of the game, two half-centuries in the last 10 Test innings, coupled with a ducks in both innings in the final Test at the Oval, resulted in the selectors losing faith in the 24-year-old.

Virat Kohli, called in as a replacement for Yuvraj Singh during the England tour, retains his place in the side that also includes Sachin Tendulkar, Virender Sehwag, and Yuvraj, all making a return after nursing injuries.

Reward for consistency

Ashwin was rewarded for his consistency in limited-overs cricket, most recently when he picked by 10 wickets in five games against England at home. Sharma, the leg-spinner, was part of the ODI squad, and the selectors seem keen to try him out during the home series against the West Indies.

All-rounder Ravindra Jadeda, who took 11 wickets against England and also made runs batting at No.7, was also in the fray but the selectors voted in favour of a specialist.

Skipper MS Dhoni and VVS Laxman could be rested after the second Test so that they will be fresh for the tour of Australia. The selectors wanted Dhoni to take a break but the skipper insisted on playing the first game against the West Indies in New Delhi.

Squad: M S Dhoni (captain), Virender Sehwag, Gautam Gambhir, Rahul Dravid, Sachin Tendulkar, V V S Laxman, Yuvraj Singh, Virat Kohli, Ajinkya Rahane, R Ashwin, Pragyan Ojha, Rahul Sharma, Ishant Sharma, Umesh Yadav, Varun Aaron.

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:47 am

i would have thought they would have wanted kumar to play as to get his some form for the series against australia, because in all honesty Kumar didnt look to be anywhere near his best in the odi series.

by anu_d Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:50 am

cricketfan90 wrote:i would have thought they would have wanted kumar to play as to get his some form for the series against australia, because in all honesty Kumar didnt look to be anywhere near his best in the odi series.

he was jaded against Eng in ODIs.
he NEEDS rest
there are 5 ODIs also against WI

he can be brouhg back for last 3 ODIs

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 10:00 am

In all honesty i think Harbajhan is done at international level. Ashwin looks a better prospect, and they also have Ojha, Mishra Sharma etc..

by anu_d Sat 29 Oct 2011, 11:11 am

cricketfan90 wrote:In all honesty i think Harbajhan is done at international level. Ashwin looks a better prospect, and they also have Ojha, Mishra Sharma etc..

harbhajan will be taken to Australia on memories of the old days....
if not to do much...atleast to wind up the Aussies Smile

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 11:26 am

they should leave him out now, he's not good enough for international cricket anymore, he's a defensive spinner, bowls too short, and lets be honest, half the time he looks like he cant be bothered.

by msp83 Sat 29 Oct 2011, 11:57 am

Not yet time to write Harbhajan off. But I can't understand this nonsense of taking him to Australia. If Ashwin performs well, then he'll have to play, Australian pitches do not need 2 spinners unless the 2 are exceptional. Ashwin is yet to fully develop his test game, and Harbhajan has been pretty average for quite a while. 3 seamers and a spinner, that should be the way, and unless Ashwin doesn't perform pretty badly, he should remain the leading spinner for India in the near future. Harhajan will have to do really good, pick up a stack of wickets in the Ranji trophy, to be even considered.

by msp83 Sat 29 Oct 2011, 12:04 pm

AD. What is the source of the report on Kumar being rested? Read cricinfo's early report, and didn't see anything of that kind.

by GG Sat 29 Oct 2011, 12:07 pm

Aaron and Rahul both have f/c bowling averages above 40...

by msp83 Sat 29 Oct 2011, 12:15 pm

India should go for sporting wickets rather than some stupid flat roads. A sporting wicket in India, as the Indian captain the other said, should turn enough so that the spinners and the close catchers are consistently involved.
Considering Rahul Sharma is not a regular in the side for Punjab, I'd go in with Ojha,who's more experienced. Ojha should make at least this chance count, and he'd do well to realize that getting wickets, is very important for a test spinner.

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 12:36 pm

i know raina had a poor series in england, but am suprised he has dropped from the squad completely in this series.

by **Fists of Fury** Sat 29 Oct 2011, 12:43 pm

Not a very strong bowling lineup from India, but it will be enough to beat the Windies, no doubt.

Experimental, is what I'd call this side.

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 1:14 pm

anu-d: be honest harbajhan isnt the future and he isnt in the squad because he has been awful, so why should they take him to australia?

by msp83 Sat 29 Oct 2011, 1:59 pm

Saw the report in the Indian Express where it is said PK is indeed being rested.
Even then, doesn't make a lot of sense. Why can't they rest him for the ODIs? give Aaron and Yadav more chances in the ODIs along side Vinay Kumar or Mithun, or even Ishant Sharma and rest Praveen Would have made a lot more sense.
Has to be considered yetthe another addition to the list of bloopers by the Srikanth led panel.

by Guest Sat 29 Oct 2011, 2:58 pm

msp83 wrote:Saw the report in the Indian Express where it is said PK is indeed being rested.
Even then, doesn't make a lot of sense. Why can't they rest him for the ODIs? give Aaron and Yadav more chances in the ODIs along side Vinay Kumar or Mithun, or even Ishant Sharma and rest Praveen Would have made a lot more sense.
Has to be considered yetthe another addition to the list of bloopers by the Srikanth led panel.

by anu_d Sat 29 Oct 2011, 4:58 pm

msp83 wrote:AD. What is the source of the report on Kumar being rested? Read cricinfo's early report, and didn't see anything of that kind.

news paper media have printed more elaborate reports like the one I posted after googling

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