Massa Speaks about Indian GP Incident

Massa "My view is that I braked later than him, I was in front, I was on the grippy area and then I started to turn and I don't see him on my left. "He is behind and then he touched my rear wheel. To be honest, I don't understand why I have the penalty."

When pressed for further explanation, Massa contradicted his first answer, acknowledging he had seen Hamilton in his mirrors.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15513318.stm

If only Felipe was as passionate and aggresive with his team mate. He's on his way out of the sport.

Belgarion of Riva wrote: He's on his way out of the sport.

Ferrari are going to have to make a tough decision at the end of the season. Massa is contracted for another season and I still firmly believe Kubica will use 2012 as his comeback year and then join Ferrari in 2013, but will they 'risk' another year of Felipe failing next season?

John wrote:but will they 'risk' another year of Felipe failing next season?

Ofcourse they will their just concentrate on Alonso as usual, Im starting to get the same feeling the same thing is going on at Red Bull

fernando wrote:

John wrote:but will they 'risk' another year of Felipe failing next season?

Ofcourse they will their just concentrate on Alonso as usual, Im starting to get the same feeling the same thing is going on at Red Bull

Exactly, a driver doesn't just become average overnight. Some gremlins have been been deliberately put in Webbers car in my opinion

Belgarion of Riva wrote:

fernando wrote:

John wrote:but will they 'risk' another year of Felipe failing next season?

Ofcourse they will their just concentrate on Alonso as usual, Im starting to get the same feeling the same thing is going on at Red Bull

Exactly, a driver doesn't just become average overnight. Some gremlins have been been deliberately put in Webbers car in my opinion

Don't forget to include Massa in that. He's been Ferrari's No.2 driver since Alonso joined. In addition to his obvious frustration and apparent lack of motivation at times, the team have more than once ordered him to make way for Alonso. On top of that is his ongoing feud with Hamilton. All of which must be putting him in a very bad place mentally.

While judging from his qualifying, Felipe isn't short on pace, compared to his team mate, Alonso often demonstrates better race craft and puts himself in a position where the team can justify ordering his team mate to move over, if necessary.

I wouldn't go as far as to say Ferrari are giving Massa a sub-standard car, but they are undoubtedly holding him back, in terms of competing with his team mate. You have to wonder how much its affecting his morale and race-day performances.

Massa and Webber aren't in sub-standard cars they're just sub-standard drivers when compared to their team mates.

erictheblueuk wrote:Massa and Webber aren't in sub-standard cars they're just sub-standard drivers when compared to their team mates.

I disagree about Webber, he matched Vettel last year and would have been world champion but for a botched pit stop. His car has had a variety of issues this year whilst Vettel has had a super reliable car.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:I disagree about Webber, he matched Vettel last year and would have been world champion but for a botched pit stop. His car has had a variety of issues this year whilst Vettel has had a super reliable car.

Alot of people have defended Webber & stated that he's been given a sub-standard car with KERS issues hindering him all season. Vettel in 2010 suffered far worse mechanical problems and engine blow ups which hindered him, however we won the title. I agree Vettel gets preferential treatment and generally if there's only one new wing he will get it, but the main issue for Webber has been the tyres & his starts, nothing to do with Red Bull giving him a dodgy or sub-standard car. Mark Webber has underperformed considerably, the percentage of his errors far outweigh the preferential treatment Red Bull have given to there no.1 Vettel in my opinion.

John wrote:
but the main issue for Webber has been the tyres & his starts, nothing to do with Red Bull giving him a dodgy or sub-standard car. Mark Webber has underperformed considerably, the percentage of his errors far outweigh the preferential treatment Red Bull have given to there no.1 Vettel in my opinion.

If you hadn't mention Webber + Red Bull in your comment there it could easily just as well be about Hamilton to be fair

Agree. Webber/Hamilton/Ferrari have all struggled with tyres compared to Vettel due to having permant clean air and no actual competition & Button who thrives upon tyre management and takes advantage of other drivers struggling. That's why Vettel is champion and Button 'appears' to be going to finish second in the title. Whoever disagrees with the above statment regarding the tyres and the effect they have had need to visit specsavers

Belgarion of Riva wrote:

erictheblueuk wrote:Massa and Webber aren't in sub-standard cars they're just sub-standard drivers when compared to their team mates.

I disagree about Webber, he matched Vettel last year and would have been world champion but for a botched pit stop. His car has had a variety of issues this year whilst Vettel has had a super reliable car.

Last year was last year, Vettel's improved and is a far better driver than he was last year. Can you honestly say the same about Webber ? Also it was Webbers mistakes at Valencia and Korea that cost him the title.

John wrote:Agree. Webber/Hamilton/Ferrari have all struggled with tyres compared to Vettel due to having permant clean air and no actual competition & Button who thrives upon tyre management and takes advantage of other drivers struggling. That's why Vettel is champion and Button 'appears' to be going to finish second in the title. Whoever disagrees with the above statment regarding the tyres and the effect they have had need to visit specsavers

Funny you should say that. I've just had my 2-yearly eye exam...at Specsavers and apparently my eyesight is as good as it was 2 years ago.

You keep babbling about tyres and how Webber, Hamilton and Ferrari have struggled with tyres, compared to Vettel. Lets look at your fundamental errors here.

First, you contradicted yourself in an earlier post. Is it Webber's greater number of mistakes or his tyres that are causing him to underperform?

Second, you seem to not wish to acknowledge the fact that all cars are different. Not only in design, from team to team, but also between sister cars, due to differing set-ups to accomodate the drivers' preferences.

Thirdly, going back specifically to Lewis Hamilton, (I've already told you this, but as usual you choose to ignore facts) Lewis has ALWAYS been particularly hard on his tyres. From his first season in F1 when Bridgestone tyres were used, he was noted for going through his tyres quicker than most other drivers.

Fourthly, given that tyres are one of the very few constants in F1, any difference in performance can be put squarely down to car design and driver ability.

NOTE:
When I say driver ability, I don't just mean the skill to drive very quickly and overtake, but also to look after their car.


Now maybe you should book an appointment at your local hospital for a brain scan. There is obviously something in your noggin preventing you from absorbing and understanding fairly simple facts.

dyrewolfe wrote:

John wrote:Agree. Webber/Hamilton/Ferrari have all struggled with tyres compared to Vettel due to having permant clean air and no actual competition & Button who thrives upon tyre management and takes advantage of other drivers struggling. That's why Vettel is champion and Button 'appears' to be going to finish second in the title. Whoever disagrees with the above statment regarding the tyres and the effect they have had need to visit specsavers

Webber's greater number of mistakes or his tyres that are causing him to underperform?

I fully stand by my original post and I am allowed to express my views on this forum. I Seeing as your Jenson Button's no.1 fan it's not suprising that you are enjoying this current 'era' of F1 and the fundamental importance or 'enhanced' importance of tyre management under the Pirelli. I stated that Vettel has endured less tyre issues compared to his rivals as Vettel rarely or has never been competing in the 2nd-7th positions during a race, where being open to 'dirty air', aggressive wheel-to-wheel racing and harsh acceleration & braking occurs. This has a huge effect upon the performance of the tyre and the longevity. Button, Alonso, Webber & Hamilton have all experienced the effects this season and has contributed to their inferior performance to Vettel. In reference to Webber, it has been his poor starts which has contributed to his poor performances. By losing places, backing himself into the pack it has unearthed all of the above issues which Vettel clearly never has to experience. The one time Vettel has had to experience racing in the pack and effect it has upon the 'less durable' tyres was Nurburgring.

John wrote:

I fully stand by my original post and I am allowed to express my views on this forum.

as is everyone else weather you agree or not there's no need for the blind and head scan comments i honestly dont care if you don't like each other im not asking you to be friends just repect one another i don't want to turn it into a nursery where i have to keep deleting/editting comments

The steward justified why Felipe was given the penalty. Check this out!
http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/sport-comment/johnny-herbert-why-massa-received-a-penalty-for-hamilton-collision