Would old heavyweight champions be cruiserweights now??

As we all know there have been some very small heavyweights in the past but there was no cruiserweight division so they had to fight as heavyweights! This makes a big difference if you think about it. Look at Haye for example he was mainly a cruiserweight who moved t heavyweight but nowadays the heavyweights are massive. I think he would have had a much better chance in the old days when they were smaller becuase even though he was a cruiserweight now he would have been heavyweight back then. How do people think he would have done? Would he have been a heavyweight champion in the past. Lets be honest he was not going to beat Ali or Tyson they have far too much quality but I reckon he would have too much skill and speed for guys like Dempsey if he fought now he would probably be a cruiserweight himself so this match could happen if it was in modern times. What do people think?

Where's the poll?

Scottrf wrote:Where's the poll?

Warsaw.

I think that Jack Johnson was a big man, he was considered a giant in his day, but he was only 6'1", which is small by today's standards, and David Haye is (apparently) 6'3" so he would beat him. Also, Tyson is under 6 foot so your argument (is there even one in there?) falls down. I think. I am a bit confused, tbh. Lol.

According to statistics the average American male, ( both Caucasian and African American, ) has grown approximately one inch every fifty years since 1850. The only statistic I could find correlating height to weight suggested that for an athletic person we can add roughly eight pounds per inch in height above five feet. This correlation may be no longer current, but it does serve as a reference.

By this reckoning, with every fighter being born around 1970, nature would, ( in round figures, ) make them so :

Jeffries - 6ft.4ins. and 230lb.
Johnson - 6ft.3ins. and 216lb.
Dempsey - 6ft.3ins. and 204lb.
Tunney - 6ft.2ins. and 204lb.
Louis - 6ft.3ins. and 210lb.
Marciano - 6ft.0ins. and 195lb.
Liston - 6ft.2ins. and 220lb.
Ali - 6ft.4ins. and 220lb
Frazier - 6ft.0ins. and 215lb..
Foreman - 6ft.5ins. and 230lb.
Holmes - 6ft.4ins. and 220lb.

The cruiserweight division has always be worthless so I imagine most of the majority of heavyweights champions from the past would venture to heavyweight at some point even if they started lower down.

There are some marginal ones I think and some obvious no's. Fitzsimmons would never have made it to heavyweight, doubt Corbett would either or Burns or Hart.

Tunney, Patterson and Charles are tough to say as they may just remain at lightheavy.

But Jeffries, Dempsey, Johnson, Louis, Willard, Walcott, Marciano and basically anyone post Liston would be a heavyweight I think.

If I was 5 foot I’d be 51 pounds.

Depends how you're measuring it, Waingro. Someone like Dempsey, for example, who was 6'1" and a solid 190 lb in his fighting prime, would be naturally bigger had he been born in the late twentieth (rather than the late nineteenth) century, particularly as a reduction in rounds these days means that we often see more fighters than ever before going for extra muscle mass, safe in the knowledge that they won't have to carry that extra weight around for more than twelve rounds.. Truth be told, Dempsey wasn't really any smaller, naturally speaking, than men such as Louis and Holyfield.

Holyfield, we know, was more than capable of mixing it with the 6'5", 240 lb monsters we've see in modern times, and I have little doubt that Louis would have done, too. I'd like to think that men such as Dempsey, Louis and Frazier, rather than campaign at Cruiserweight, would realise that it's a dross division and simply go after the Heavyweight riches. Whether or not they would is a different matter, of course.

I presume you mean taking the old fighter as they are and not trying to readjust them to modern size, which is hard to say.

But Dempsey despite being a small heavyweight compared to now would still be well able of bulking up a bit and competing while guys like Johnson or Jeffries were heavyweights by todays standards anyway.

Scottrf wrote:If I was 5 foot I’d be 51 pounds.

Not surprisingly, the statistics don't work that way.

The proven method is to begin with five feet in height and 100lb. in weight. Every inch in height above five feet in an athletic American male is deemed to correlate to an additional eight pounds in weight, or thereabouts.

I've always thought this and have repeatedly said that comparing current to past greats is difficult when you consider that many historic HW greats would today simply not fight in the HW division.

There is no way on earth Marciano, for example would be fighting at HW, I doubt he'd be cruiser either and be a comfortable LHW.

The state of current cruiserweight division would have forced many smaller fighters to venture at HW anyway due to the money as Chris above says.

HumanWindmill wrote:

Scottrf wrote:If I was 5 foot I’d be 51 pounds.

Not surprisingly, the statistics don't work that way.

The proven method is to begin with five feet in height and 100lb. in weight. Every inch in height above five feet in an athletic American male is deemed to correlate to an additional eight pounds in weight, or thereabouts.

Maybe Union is athletic after all.

6'1 200lbs

5' + 13"

13 x 8lbs = 104lbs

100 + 104 = 204lbs

I'm less than athletic.

I suppose its a pretty general question. I mean its not as if every old time heavyweight champion was th same size. They are a mixed bag.

The very small ones like Corbett, Fitzimmons, Hart etc would no way campaign at heavy if there were 6'6 240 lb guys there.

Its the ones like Tunney/Charles/Patterson who are questionable as they could exist happily in a light heavyweight division and the temptation to move up may not be there against guys who outsize them so badly.

But Demspey/Johnson/Jeffries/Louis I see being heavyweights in any era.

manos de piedra wrote:The cruiserweight division has always be worthless so I imagine most of the majority of heavyweights champions from the past would venture to heavyweight at some point even if they started lower down.

Manos, I agree with you that the Cruiserweight division is perceived as a lesser division, which i attribute to the fact that it doesn't have the stature of the other divisions in terms of history (and quality) being as it's only around 30 years old. However if it was one of the original weight classes i'm fairly sure it would be held in higher regard by the public and fighters of years gone by. Therefore in reference to the topic i believe some of our smaller heavyweight champions of years gone by would have campaigned (if only for a short time, on their way up to fighting for the heavyweight prize) at cruiserweight. Also, some of the light heavyweight greats such as Charles and Conn may have been inclined to challenge for the Cruiserweight belt instead of/or in addition to the heavyweight title.

manos de piedra wrote:
But Demspey/Johnson/Jeffries/Louis I see being heavyweights in any era.

So do I.

Dempsey and Marciano trained down to their fighting weights, believing it gave them better mobility. Dempsey, especially, was all muscle, bone and sinew. Not an ounce of fat on him.

For the second Tunney fight, looking to be more mobile, Dempsey trained down even further and, although Boxrec have him at just over 192lb. for the fight, he was actually 187lb., five pounds lighter than Tunney.

Nearly paid off, too, depending on your take on the ' Long Count.'

Iv watched the long count many times. By the time you actually count to 10 the ref is on about 6 but Tunney looks like he would have got up even if the ref counted earlier. So my take is the long count didnt make a difference

Steffan wrote:Iv watched the long count many times. By the time you actually count to 10 the ref is on about 6 but Tunney looks like he would have got up even if the ref counted earlier. So my take is the long count didnt make a difference

That's always been my take too, Steffan.

Tunney, though, called it " the luckiest night of my life."

Either way, Jack had him in serious trouble for a moment or three.

ermietrude wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:The cruiserweight division has always be worthless so I imagine most of the majority of heavyweights champions from the past would venture to heavyweight at some point even if they started lower down.

Manos, I agree with you that the Cruiserweight division is perceived as a lesser division, which i attribute to the fact that it doesn't have the stature of the other divisions in terms of history (and quality) being as it's only around 30 years old. However if it was one of the original weight classes i'm fairly sure it would be held in higher regard by the public and fighters of years gone by. Therefore in reference to the topic i believe some of our smaller heavyweight champions of years gone by would have campaigned (if only for a short time, on their way up to fighting for the heavyweight prize) at cruiserweight. Also, some of the light heavyweight greats such as Charles and Conn may have been inclined to challenge for the Cruiserweight belt instead of/or in addition to the heavyweight title.

Yeah but is the question not "would these guys be cruiserweights now?" Implying that in todays era of huge heavyweights would these guys step up?

The whole history of boxing would be different if you changed around the historical weight classes but my understanding was that question related to past heavyweights in this particular era.

I've always seen the long count as something of a red herring, personally. No doubting that Tunney was seriously hurt for a moment, but I see him beating the count, be it a standard one or the one we saw, with referee Dave Barry unwilling to start it until Dempsey had complied with the new rules.

Even if Dempsey had been able to stand over him (ala the Willard slaughter) during the count, I think Tunney, the ice-cool professional, would still have taken every second possibly available and found a way out of the crisis. What convinces me is an account which Dempsey gave years after the fight of what happened immediately after the knockdown. When Tunney rose, Dempsey charged at him, smelling blood. Tunney was in good enough shape both physically and mentally to land a body shot just seconds afterwards which Dempsey described as the "the hardest blow I have ever received. It was not a question in my mind of being knocked out - I thought I was going to die."

Seems to me that Tunney had recovered enough within a few seconds to have taken care of Dempsey's desperate charge, though I'll confess I never knew he described himself as being so lucky with regards to that fight.

Manos, you are quite right sir, i appear to have invented a different angle to the question and answered that instead. It's been a long day....

ermietrude wrote:Manos, you are quite right sir, i appear to have invented a different angle to the question and answered that instead. It's been a long day....

Its a pretty vague question to be fair and could be interpretted several ways. Im not sure if you are supposed to factor in would past heavyweights be naturally bigger or what not but the safest answer seems to be "it depends".

Did Tunney not say after that he had simply styed down as long as possible for maximum recovery time, and that Dempsey had said long after the fight he had no reason to doubt Tunney was telling the truth?

HumanWindmill wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:
But Demspey/Johnson/Jeffries/Louis I see being heavyweights in any era.

So do I.

Dempsey and Marciano trained down to their fighting weights, believing it gave them better mobility. Dempsey, especially, was all muscle, bone and sinew. Not an ounce of fat on him.

For the second Tunney fight, looking to be more mobile, Dempsey trained down even further and, although Boxrec have him at just over 192lb. for the fight, he was actually 187lb., five pounds lighter than Tunney.

Nearly paid off, too, depending on your take on the ' Long Count.'

depends however you could argue that a dempsey bulking up and taking on lets say taking on vitali klitschko. would he be able to be as fluid and keep up the head movement and retain the speed and carry the power up?

think they are legitimate questions... though for the record i think that the likes of louis and dempsey and what not would compete handily in every era.

I would give Haye very little chance against someone like Dempsey myself Waingro, Im not really sure what he has done to deserve such accoladates that you laud on him continually. May I point you to Demspeys fight against Willard to show you how a real heavyweight punchers dispatches a giant. Far more impressive than Hayes performances against Valuev or Klitschko Im sure you would agree? I would also suspect that Tunney would ask far more questions of these limited modern day giants fighting on the back foot and dont see as to why he should not be able to win.

If we take the era as it is right now then most of these past heavyweight champions would be well capable and I see no reason why guys like Charles or Tunney would not easily rule the current light heavyweight and cruiserweight divisions before following the likes of Adamek or Haye into the heavyweight division where I see them being happily competitve against the current crop.

I'd imagine almost all of the old time HW's would still be HW's in today's era, even if a few may not necessarily start their careers at that weight.
The glamour and money the division brings tends to tempt fighters into venturing there even if they may be outsized at the weight.

James J Corbett for instance had similar physical dynamics to Tomasz Adamek and like the Pole, would have most probably ended up competing at the heaviest class.

well if all these guys fought in the cruiserweight division now then i would assume that there would be more buzz about cruisers than there is about welters...

manos de piedra wrote:Did Tunney not say after that he had simply styed down as long as possible for maximum recovery time, and that Dempsey had said long after the fight he had no reason to doubt Tunney was telling the truth?

I'm sure he did, manos.

However, it was later in life that Tunney described it as the luckiest night of his life. Perhaps he wasn't only referring to the long count but, rather, to the fact that Dempsey was unable to press his advantage.

Whatever the reason, Tunney certainly considered himself lucky.

The answer is a resounding no...because good weight is easy to put on these days and there is no money at cruiserweight....

Colonial Lion wrote:I would give Haye very little chance against someone like Dempsey myself Waingro, Im not really sure what he has done to deserve such accoladates that you laud on him continually. May I point you to Demspeys fight against Willard to show you how a real heavyweight punchers dispatches a giant. Far more impressive than Hayes performances against Valuev or Klitschko Im sure you would agree? I would also suspect that Tunney would ask far more questions of these limited modern day giants fighting on the back foot and dont see as to why he should not be able to win.

If we take the era as it is right now then most of these past heavyweight champions would be well capable and I see no reason why guys like Charles or Tunney would not easily rule the current light heavyweight and cruiserweight divisions before following the likes of Adamek or Haye into the heavyweight division where I see them being happily competitve against the current crop.

Lets not forget that Haye beat the biggest champion of all time Valuev would Dempsey or Louis be able to beat him? I am not sure they would I think they would struggle with Valuevs size too much and I think Klichko would beat them far too big and powerful.

Haye against Dempsey or Louis would be great fights at cruiser or heavyweight imo hard to say, Haye is an all time great cruiserweight so I think he would win at cruiserweight but heavyweight would be closer it was not Hayes best weight.

Adamek got destroyed by Vitali so we should forget about him I think Haye was right the guy is no good i reckon Demspey and Louis would beat him quite easily.

Waingro wrote:Lets not forget that Haye beat the biggest champion of all time Valuev would Dempsey or Louis be able to beat him? I am not sure they would I think they would struggle with Valuevs size too much and I think Klichko would beat them far too big and powerful.

Haye against Dempsey or Louis would be great fights at cruiser or heavyweight imo hard to say, Haye is an all time great cruiserweight so I think he would win at cruiserweight but heavyweight would be closer it was not Hayes best weight.

Adamek got destroyed by Vitali so we should forget about him I think Haye was right the guy is no good i reckon Demspey and Louis would beat him quite easily.

Where to start?

I'm actually speechless Waingro.

HumanWindmill wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Did Tunney not say after that he had simply styed down as long as possible for maximum recovery time, and that Dempsey had said long after the fight he had no reason to doubt Tunney was telling the truth?

I'm sure he did, manos.

However, it was later in life that Tunney described it as the luckiest night of his life. Perhaps he wasn't only referring to the long count but, rather, to the fact that Dempsey was unable to press his advantage.

Whatever the reason, Tunney certainly considered himself lucky.

I think the context was that Tunney took advantage of the new neutral corner rule. Great thinking fighter Tunney! Dempsey in his eagerness to finish it forgot about it
Tunney got a bit more time to recover and then Dempsy simply didn't have enough left in the tank to finish him.
There is a school of thought that the younger Dempsey would have not have let him off the hook.So in a sense Tunney had fortune on his side
Its worthy of note that Dempsey himself had no complaints about the outcome though .

oxring wrote:

Waingro wrote:Lets not forget that Haye beat the biggest champion of all time Valuev would Dempsey or Louis be able to beat him? I am not sure they would I think they would struggle with Valuevs size too much and I think Klichko would beat them far too big and powerful.

Haye against Dempsey or Louis would be great fights at cruiser or heavyweight imo hard to say, Haye is an all time great cruiserweight so I think he would win at cruiserweight but heavyweight would be closer it was not Hayes best weight.

Adamek got destroyed by Vitali so we should forget about him I think Haye was right the guy is no good i reckon Demspey and Louis would beat him quite easily.

Where to start?

I'm actually speechless Waingro.

You don't think Dempsey or Louis would beat Adamek?

Haye beats Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey?

I will go to my grave - probably quite soon, now - happy in the knowledge that I really have heard everything.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The answer is a resounding no...because good weight is easy to put on these days and there is no money at cruiserweight....

but again would you not think that if all these ex-champs were around today there would more talk about the cruisers and even more PPV money on them?

there would be more buzz about the quality around the cruisers making the money appear...

I think towser is just a windup merchant...you don't think he's really d4 do you....??

I'm going on the soccer thread now to debate why Wayne Rooney is better than your Bobby Charlton..

Same kinda thing...

skidd1 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Did Tunney not say after that he had simply styed down as long as possible for maximum recovery time, and that Dempsey had said long after the fight he had no reason to doubt Tunney was telling the truth?

I'm sure he did, manos.

However, it was later in life that Tunney described it as the luckiest night of his life. Perhaps he wasn't only referring to the long count but, rather, to the fact that Dempsey was unable to press his advantage.

Whatever the reason, Tunney certainly considered himself lucky.

I think the context was that Tunney took advantage of the new neutral corner rule. Great thinking fighter Tunney! Dempsey in his eagerness to finish it forgot about it
Tunney got a bit more time to recover and then Dempsy simply didn't have enough left in the tank to finish him.
There is a school of thought that the younger Dempsey would have not have let him off the hook.So in a sense Tunney had fortune on his side
Its worthy of note that Dempsey himself had no complaints about the outcome though .

Very plausible explanation, manos.

Also, regarding the last point, I reckon it shows boxing in its very best light when fierce rivals can be generous in praise for each other after the final bell. Those two, of course, became lifelong friends.

Nice to see.

So in summary and in English - Waingro - you believe:

1) Haye could beat Valuev but Dempsey and Louis couldn't beat Valuev.
2) Haye would beat Dempsey and Louis at CW but not at HW
3) Dempsey and Louis would beat Vitali as he is rubbish.
===============================
5 facts off the top of my head, that might make you reconsider (although I very much doubt it)

1) Valuev was one of, if not the weakest champions since Primo Carnera - and TBH - I reckon Primo could probably do a job on big Nikolai.
2) Valuev will struggle with any boxer with good movement. If a so-past-his-prime-he-draws-a-pension Holyfield beats him, Dempsey and Louis hurt him
3) Dempsey is one of the hardest hitting fighters in history with an adequate chin. Furthermore, he was incredibly conditioned and had an awesome punch output. Haye through 10 power shots a round
4) Louis was a master technician with every offensive weapon. Why Haye wins at "cruiserweight" - when Louis and Dempsey weighed the same as him - I don't know.
5) Haye never wanted any part of Vitali. Which is surprising given he was so "rubbish"

Waingro wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:I would give Haye very little chance against someone like Dempsey myself Waingro, Im not really sure what he has done to deserve such accoladates that you laud on him continually. May I point you to Demspeys fight against Willard to show you how a real heavyweight punchers dispatches a giant. Far more impressive than Hayes performances against Valuev or Klitschko Im sure you would agree? I would also suspect that Tunney would ask far more questions of these limited modern day giants fighting on the back foot and dont see as to why he should not be able to win.

If we take the era as it is right now then most of these past heavyweight champions would be well capable and I see no reason why guys like Charles or Tunney would not easily rule the current light heavyweight and cruiserweight divisions before following the likes of Adamek or Haye into the heavyweight division where I see them being happily competitve against the current crop.

Lets not forget that Haye beat the biggest champion of all time Valuev would Dempsey or Louis be able to beat him? I am not sure they would I think they would struggle with Valuevs size too much and I think Klichko would beat them far too big and powerful.

Haye against Dempsey or Louis would be great fights at cruiser or heavyweight imo hard to say, Haye is an all time great cruiserweight so I think he would win at cruiserweight but heavyweight would be closer it was not Hayes best weight.

Adamek got destroyed by Vitali so we should forget about him I think Haye was right the guy is no good i reckon Demspey and Louis would beat him quite easily.

am i the only guy that realises this guy is a blatant WUM? A good ond granted, but a WUM nonetheless.

Waingro wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:I would give Haye very little chance against someone like Dempsey myself Waingro, Im not really sure what he has done to deserve such accoladates that you laud on him continually. May I point you to Demspeys fight against Willard to show you how a real heavyweight punchers dispatches a giant. Far more impressive than Hayes performances against Valuev or Klitschko Im sure you would agree? I would also suspect that Tunney would ask far more questions of these limited modern day giants fighting on the back foot and dont see as to why he should not be able to win.

If we take the era as it is right now then most of these past heavyweight champions would be well capable and I see no reason why guys like Charles or Tunney would not easily rule the current light heavyweight and cruiserweight divisions before following the likes of Adamek or Haye into the heavyweight division where I see them being happily competitve against the current crop.

Lets not forget that Haye beat the biggest champion of all time Valuev would Dempsey or Louis be able to beat him? I am not sure they would I think they would struggle with Valuevs size too much and I think Klichko would beat them far too big and powerful.

Haye against Dempsey or Louis would be great fights at cruiser or heavyweight imo hard to say, Haye is an all time great cruiserweight so I think he would win at cruiserweight but heavyweight would be closer it was not Hayes best weight.

Adamek got destroyed by Vitali so we should forget about him I think Haye was right the guy is no good i reckon Demspey and Louis would beat him quite easily.

No I forgoten Haye beat Valuev Waingro, one of the worst ever world champions in my own opinion. I doubt you are likely to let me forget about that particularly turgid affair. Again could I suggest you watch Dempsey in action against Willard who was a Klitschko sized giant that Dempsey "absolutely destroyed". Crude come forward brawlers like Ruiz and a seriously washed up Holyfield managed to almost beat Valuev so I cant see why far superior fighters like Demspey struggle with the painfully slow giant.

I would also add that I really cant see your basis of Haye being an all time great cruiser as anyway relevant to him beating Dempsey or Louis there I just cant see how Haye beats them or what the basis for that prediction is Waingro.

Scottrf wrote:

oxring wrote:

Waingro wrote:Lets not forget that Haye beat the biggest champion of all time Valuev would Dempsey or Louis be able to beat him? I am not sure they would I think they would struggle with Valuevs size too much and I think Klichko would beat them far too big and powerful.

Haye against Dempsey or Louis would be great fights at cruiser or heavyweight imo hard to say, Haye is an all time great cruiserweight so I think he would win at cruiserweight but heavyweight would be closer it was not Hayes best weight.

Adamek got destroyed by Vitali so we should forget about him I think Haye was right the guy is no good i reckon Demspey and Louis would beat him quite easily.

Where to start?

I'm actually speechless Waingro.

You don't think Dempsey or Louis would beat Adamek?

Nah, they fought in black&white so I'm not convinced they existed anyway. If they did exist and they were good, they were probably the work of aliens anyway.

Waingro, given that Ruslan Chagaev, similar in size to both Dempsey and Louis but not even one tenth the fighter, managed to beat Valuev, I think we can safely say that both the 'Manassa Mauler' and the 'Brown Bomber' would have totally outclassed the lumbering, giant oaf from Russia.

It's so funny it's not even worth commenting on......I mean he's chucking threads out that are so reaching.. he has to be joking.....

You guys are making his day...but fairplay I know how protective you guys are of the old fighters.....

So he's not even had to try hard...

Definitely towser or even fightnews...

No i meant i think Klichko would beat Dempsey and Louis but I think Demspey and Louis would destroy Adamek the guy was no good look at what Vitali did to him.

As Windy alluded to above, many of the older fighters were boiling down to their fighting weight and certainly come fight night, there wasn't an ounce of fat on them. They were training to go at full tilt with maximum power and speed.

If Roy Jones Junior, a former middleweight and a fairly average sized light-heavy can bulk up and beat John Ruiz, who, let's not forget, is a multiple heavyweight champion limited though he is, it's not too much of a stretch to suggest that naturally bigger men could also not compete effectively and succeed at the weight.

Tunney weighed in at just over 200lbs for his last fight. It was the heaviest he'd ever fought at and it wasn't because he had a poor training camp or done any specific training to put on extra muscle. It was natural growth and it allowed him to maintain his speed and mobility around the ring. He would always have been light at the weight but he was fairly close to being a natural heavyweight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's so funny it's not even worth commenting on......I mean he's chucking threads out that are so reaching.. he has to be joking.....

You guys are making his day...but fairplay I know how protective you guys are of the old fighters.....

So he's not even had to try hard...

Definitely towser or even fightnews...

hes so clearly a WUM its a joke i am shocked that smart people here have been suckered in by him. i realised the first time he started talking about floyd ducked hatton for a rematch, raised my suspicions but others have been going along with it for months.

Tunney close to a natural heavyweight?

Anyone who could make 175 for the guts of their career I would find it very hard to say was close to a natural heavyweight. Especially in todays era. I dont think he ever breached 200lbs for a fight.

I think its hard to say if Tunney would leave light heavyweight in todays era if he had to bulk up 30 lbs or more and would be outsized as significantly as against a Klitschko sized opponent. He might beat a Ruiz but Im not sure the temptation would be there overall given how much sizing up he would have to do even to just make the division. I think theres a good chance he just stays at light heavyweight.

manos de piedra wrote:Tunney close to a natural heavyweight?

Anyone who could make 175 for the guts of their career I would find it very hard to say was close to a natural heavyweight. Especially in todays era. I dont think he ever breached 200lbs for a fight.

I think its hard to say if Tunney would leave light heavyweight in todays era if he had to bulk up 30 lbs or more and would be outsized as significantly as against a Klitschko sized opponent. He might beat a Ruiz but Im not sure the temptation would be there overall given how much sizing up he would have to do even to just make the division. I think theres a good chance he just stays at light heavyweight.

personally i think tunney tries it...

given that he is a more methodical fighter i think he would have relished the challenge of trying to work out how to beat a klit being his size.

whether he does is open to debate.

Waingro wrote: Lets be honest he was not going to beat Ali or Tyson they have far too much quality but I reckon he would have too much skill and speed for guys like Dempsey

Dempsey would make mincemeat of Haye.

rowley wrote:

Waingro wrote: Lets be honest he was not going to beat Ali or Tyson they have far too much quality but I reckon he would have too much skill and speed for guys like Dempsey

Dempsey would make mincemeat of Haye.

Im not sure mate I think it would be a close fight lets not forget that Dempsey did not even fight black challengers so how can we be sure he would easily beat Haye? I think Haye would have too much speed and skill for Dempsey although Dempsey was a heavyweight he was not that big he would just be a cruiserweight now tbh Haye was probably bigger that is why I am asking if old time heavyweights would just be cruiserweights now??