Wellies to retire.....

Anyone else, like me, think Steven Jones will retire from international duty this season. I think he'd announce his international retirement now, bar not wanting to steal Shane's swansong.

I think, he'll see this 6 Nations out and announce his retirement.

After this years RWC he will find it hard to keep hold of that 10 jersey, and after 100+ caps, its not nice to see him warming the bench, and from there I wouldn't want to see him being dropped completely.

Steve, you've earned your 100+caps, time to hang-up the international boots before they trip you up.

Wasn't there report out few days back saying he wasn't going to follow Shane into retirement as he still feels fit enough etc to carry on?

I reckon Stevo will be available till the end of the season and maybe going into the AI's of next. We don't have a back up 10 to Priestland yet remember so he's still got a fair bit to offer.

He's a true gent and a complete legend of the game imo. Respected the world over as a true rugby man and fierce competitor, and one of my all time favourite players.

Whenever he does decide to hang up his boots, I hope all of Welsh rugby salutes him. We know the fans love him, the reaction in the MS when he came on in the semi-final was incredible. A truly brilliant and dependable player, who's been a remarkable servant to Welsh rugby over the years

Hook in France and off form keeps him in contention. He was and is class and i just hope he goes in the manner he wants and not by being ousted

I think Wellies would be best served to hang up his boots now. He was third choice in the world cup and players like Tovey, Biggar and Steffan jones are the future its time to give them a shot. Steven hanging around holds their development back. Picking a 34 year old to be a squad member is pointless.

Its sad but his form since the lions in 2009 has gradually declined. He has been less and less effective for Wales, he is no longer first choice at the scarlets.

I wouldnt pick Stephen Jones again for a wales squad. I do salute his service but Father time has caught up with him and it was glaringly obvious in the RWC. He was only marginally better than Hook and he is simply going to decline further. If he wants to prolong his career then confining himself to regional rugby is his best bet.

I'd be tempted to keep him around the squad until the 6 Nations just so we have some back up if the likes of Tovey or Biggar don't kick on.

Biggar? He had his chance...it has to be Tovey

If he recovers well i think he should stay another 12 months,he has plenty to offer

Stevie has been a great feckin player. The time draws nigh, and I hope he goes out well, chin up and respect intact. Hopefully with one more big win in his back pocket, to boot.

Great servant to Welsh rugby and a consummate pro - making the absolute most of his talents and ability.

Reached world class standard in 2005 and, with hindsight, probably should have bowed out of test rugby after the Lions tour to NZ.

As a player - he deserves to be remembered fondly.

i think we should keep him for the 6nations along with priestland and another fly half whos on form (be it tovey, steffan jones, biggar, Hook?, Henson?, Morgan?)
as his experience will help out a youngster very well (i mean we can see how SJ guidance over RP has helped him)

? means not sure about them- hook- need time out of international, henson- on form, morgan- too young/small

I personally don't think Steve will ever come out and say he is retiring from international rubgy, I think it will be more of a case that whilst he is still playing regionally he will be availlable for international duty, however I suspect that he will just start to be faded out of the squads over the course of the year.

sirBiggles wrote:Steve, you've earned your 100+caps, time to hang-up the international boots before they trip you up.

Who are you to tell him when to retire? I'm really tired of this argument that players should retire because they're X years old or have had X amount of caps. It's bad enough when players are forced into retirement due to injury nevermind people screaming for their retirement because of age and cap numbers. If the individual feels that they can physically carry on, and they want to carry on then it's up to them. Stephen will retire when he's good and ready.

wellies will get fewer starts for wales now. he might find it hard to secure a bench spot. but his value to the squad cannot be underestimated.

no need to shoot the old warhorse just yet. he still has a lot to give to wales.

I think Steve is currently second choice at 10 behind Priestland and should therefore continue to play until such times as he drops further down. Hook needs some game time at 10 in France before he should be considered again.

I would bring Tovey in to the squad as I think he will be a great future international as he controls the game so well.

Cari wrote:

sirBiggles wrote:Steve, you've earned your 100+caps, time to hang-up the international boots before they trip you up.

Who are you to tell him when to retire? I'm really tired of this argument that players should retire because they're X years old or have had X amount of caps. It's bad enough when players are forced into retirement due to injury nevermind people screaming for their retirement because of age and cap numbers. If the individual feels that they can physically carry on, and they want to carry on then it's up to them. Stephen will retire when he's good and ready.

Cari I dont think people are saying he should retire just because he is too old and has too many caps. I think most people recognise that Wellies as a player has steadily declined. He is slower than he was both in thought and deed. His kicking was way off in the RWC and when he needed to step up and drop a goal in the semi he literally ran away fron the pocket and was scared of the responsibility. Its sad hes been a great servant but his time is up. He can still do a job for the scarlets but he is way off international form at the moment and at 34 is never going to get back up there. Times winged chariot catches up with us all in the end.

Stevo had the best kicking percentage of all the Welsh kickers, about 85% I believe. Hardly way off.

He did make a bit of a mare out of the DG situation though.

I'd be happy to see him retire.

I think he passed his best two years ago, a great servant to Wales but has always been a limited player. This is becoming more and more apparent with the emergence of so much young talent.

Personally I would like to see young players given opportunities to learn the ropes and test their ability as soon as possible.

Candidates like Tovey, Hook, Biggar, Steffan Jones, Matthew Morgan etc have a good chance to make a good account of themselves in the up coming HEC matches. We will find the right back up to Priestland.

He kicked well against Namibia and Fiji but when it counted against the French he missed a conversion that shouldnt have been a difficult kick that cost us. However when he was in the pocket in the French 22 and on his correct foot phillips went to pass and Wellies waved him away and set his backs into a running position then promptly turned the ball over. That loss of bottle was the moment when I realised he no longer has it to play at the top. If anyone else had done that then people would have been calling for his head but because it was Steve and we all have a lot of respect for his service people didnt go over the top. I would rather have a player who will stand up and try to make the shot than a player scared to try.

Kicking is far less important than his lack of ability to make the right decisions at the right time in any game he played.

As soon as jones was on the field we looked limited, indecisive, unthreatening and kicked pointlessly and aimlessly.

maestegmafia wrote:Kicking is far less important than his lack of ability to make the right decisions at the right time in any game he played.

As soon as jones was on the field we looked limited, indecisive, unthreatening and kicked pointlessly and aimlessly.

Seriously what matches did you watch? Yeah he wasn't as good as Priestland but in both matches against France and Australia he added structure to our play, and tactically kicked v well to get us territory etc, and we looked like we had a load more options on then when Hook played there. The mind boggles at what some people see when Stevo plays. It truly does.

I won't say we looked threatening, because we didn't, but he didn't kick pointlessly or aimlessly. That's just wrong sorry.

Stevo wasn't at his best in the wc, but I like many others, are not convinced he was ever at full fitness there either. The one main bad point was that he didn't go for the DG.

Rd I have to disagree. Steve jones looked aimless and warrant. He let us down.

He was a damn site better than Hook. We looked loads better when he came on (but again like I've already said no where near as good as Priestland).

And yes agree to disagree we'll have to. I completely and utterly disagree with you, not sure I'd have been able to find the words to express how much even if I had to.

maesteg, i am saddened by your lack of love for the old turk.

jones cant be described as limited. he wasnt ever a flash harry type of player but his game awareness and management were superb. (lions fh, knocking scw's little johnny to 12?)

stephen jones is top class, no doubt. 100+caps dont come to players unless they are play well, consistantly well.

Stephen Jones Was top class dt he is not any longer his best days are 2+ years ago. Even Alfie realised after the 07 RWC that his days were over, Wellies is a clever guy he needs to make that realiseation as well.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Stephen Jones Was top class dt he is not any longer his best days are 2+ years ago. Even Alfie realised after the 07 RWC that his days were over, Wellies is a clever guy he needs to make that realiseation as well.

yeah, ok. wellies hasent got youth on his side. but, he will still be a very important wales squad member, at least for 6n2012

All I can say is where would we have been for the last 2 years without him? And please don't say Priestland would have slotted in, because he only found consistent form last season, so it would have been 6N's 2011 at earliest for him (which oh, look, turns out that's what happened).

With all due respect we finished 4th in the last two six nations and had a ten match losing streak with Stephen Jones. Look where we were over the last two years with him!!!! However that is in the past, we now have a first choice 10 and we should be developing his successor not running a help the aged campaign.

Tycroes - who else was there? Seriously now.

Biggar we tried, he didnt work.

Hook we've tried....and yeah c'mon we all know what's happened there.

Until last season Priestland wasn't ready.

Robinson we've tried, he didn't work.

Tovey is nearly always injured.

Stevo is not perfect, he does have some limitations to his game. One thing he will always bring though is commitment. He is the ultimate professional and not once have I ever doubted he's given his all for Wales. We should be applauding him and his services to our rugby team, not running him down.

We still don't have a back up 10 to Priestland other than Stevo. His experience is invaluable to helping others come through. I expect him to start being phased out 6N's time through to the AI's.

Im not arguing against his selection in the last two years but I am pointing out it has been a poor two years and he is way past his best. Im not saying he hasnt been a great servant all my posts freely state that.

Look at the moment I would rather have Tovey, Steffan Jones, Biggar, ahead of Wellies. Yes I said Biggar taht should give you some idea of how far I think he has declined. If he wasnt fit fior teh RWC he shouldnt have gone.

If we now start wallowing in sentiment we will lose the momentum we gained in teh RWC.

All the arguments to keep Wellies are based on his great service to Wales in the past not on his present form which is dire.

As for commitment to the cause. Drop goal, 8 minutes from teh end he wasnt commited to go for that was he. We lost that game he was to blame for it as much as Hook.

Time catches up with us all, he doesnt deserve his place on form and he wont be around in four years time. To select him again is a massive retrograde step.

His present form isn't dire Tycroes, that is a complete exaggeration.

He's not playing brilliantly, nor is he playing rubbish. He's average, which I would argue, no isn't good enough for international standard, but it's a damn site better then some of the other options we've got.

I would much rather we phase out our senior players as apposed to cutting them out straight away. We have 4 years to build now to 2015, no need to stop players contributing immediately, especailly when some have so much to offer.

Steve Jones clearly wasn't fully fit during the WC, but was still miles better than Hook. He misses one kick in 14 and sudenly he is a poor goal kicker! Get real guys.

A fit and firing Jones will give his teammate Priestland a good run for his money both for Wales & the Scarlets.

Cari wrote:

sirBiggles wrote:Steve, you've earned your 100+caps, time to hang-up the international boots before they trip you up.

Who are you to tell him when to retire? I'm really tired of this argument that players should retire because they're X years old or have had X amount of caps. It's bad enough when players are forced into retirement due to injury nevermind people screaming for their retirement because of age and cap numbers. If the individual feels that they can physically carry on, and they want to carry on then it's up to them. Stephen will retire when he's good and ready.

Cari, you made too much of my comment there....

Actually I don't want to see him retire because of his age, I think he has been a fantastic 10 and a brilliant ambassador for Welsh rugby. However, it is exactly that is why I think he needs to consider it. The last thing I want is for us all to be calling for his head, saying he's no good, etc, etc.... We all know how finicky we are in Wales about rugby and our national team. I don't want him going from hero to zero. He needs to quit international duty before that day.

I agree with others though, I think he has something to give back to the development of the youngsters, and believe that is where he will serve Wales best from now on.

But ppl have been callin for his head and sayin hes no good for years, since hook or even henson came on the scene (remember 6 months ago ppl were sayin we were guarenteed to win with hook at 10 and guarenteed to loose with sj at 10)

I really dislike this relatively new phenomenon in sports of players retiring from international duty.

I think (and I agree) that Stephen believes that you cannot pick and choose when to play for your nation, if your nation calls you, you answer. Every single time he puts on the red shirt of Wales, he feels the honour that I can only imagine it can give you.

I wouldn't be surprised if his view is that if our coaching team (who many have accepted are some of the best worldwide) decide that he fits into the balance of the squad (be it 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice) then he will always be available.

I used to agree Chris - but I feel that professional sport and rugby in particular is so intense that if a players head isn't right or he feels is body's no longer strong/quick enough then he'll be letting his team and country down and also risking a possible very serious injury (you get injured far more going in to a tackle half hearted than full blooded) that may affect them for the rest of their lives and so they may feel it's best to give other players the chance.

Yes but he will be picked on the strength of his Scarlets form surely? The coaching team won't pick him for old times sake if he's not up to it, look what has happened with Nugget.

True - he would (or at least should) only be there if his form is upto it. But I was talking more of how he feels personally - if he thinks he's not physically/mentally up to it, or feels that because he's just that fraction of a second too slow it may cause an injury for him to play then fair play to him you've got to respect that. But I do agree you shouldn't force some one to retire.

I mean look at Iestyn thomas, he's 33 and is playing some of the best rugby of his career and really showing some of the youngsters at the Scarlets how to get around the park.

after last nights game he ought to retire...

True, but that's not to say he could get back on form - I mean they do say form is temporary. See how he is in the lead up to the Oz game - personally I don't think he'll retire, he'll just fade into the background and be used to pass his experience on to the younger 10's (as he did to Priestland), and then probably retire from all types of rugby after this or next season

Priest,

I hope we just don't cast him aside, he has so much experience that if used right at Regional and Internationally can only help the likes of PReistland Tovey etc etc.

That's how I'd hope he is used, and I can't imagine that Gats wouldn't use his experience and skills - but I there will be a load of people on her baying for his blood if he ever wears the red of Wales again (because Hook, and now in particular Henson will be able to win games singlehandedly whereas all Jones can do is loose games)

I respect Stephen Jones for deciding to fight for his place till the bitter end, though it's down to an individuals personality and what they consider to be the way they wish to end their Wales career.

Shane Williams is a bit of a show boater and loves the lime light, how many tries has he blown because he was selfish and wanted the glory for himself? How many magnificent ones has he scored and won games for Wales... far more than he's blown that's for sure!
For him the ideal way to finish his career will be a standing ovation from a adoring Millenium stadium crowd on December the 3rd, a chance to say goodbye to one of the best players we have ever produced. He deserves it and we love him for the memories he has given us.

Stephen Jones is a different animal, in his mind the old Lion protecting his territory doesn't just walk away when a younger, stronger Lion comes along. He knows he can't win the fight so retreats to the end of his land, then just before he reaches the end of his territory he turns and fights, he'll eventually lose and get kicked out, but that's nature.
Stephen Jones is at the edge of his territory now making a last stand, Hook, Priestland, Henson, Tovey, Biggar, Matthew Morgan all want his jersey but they will have to take it off him.
Cliff Morgan, Barry John, Phil Bennett, Jonathan Davies, Neil Jenkins they have all come and gone, but no one will deny Wellies his place alongside Wales's finest ever Fly Halves, he's earned that spot.

It's been wonderful to watch Shane Williams, Martyn Williams and Stephen Jones over the course of their careers and seen them leave a little piece of their body out there for their countrymen each time they have pulled on the Welsh jersey, and I really hope the Australia game is a sell out so they can get the ovation they all deserve from the people they have represented so well.

Ideally I want all three to play against Australia, regardless of our chances of winning the game, then all three to be brought off at some point in the second half, Welsh fans can give them the ovation each has earned.

I don't really care what Gatland said about Martyn Williams "would he get the 100th cap if he was a New Zealander"?
I'm not a hard nosed New Zealander, I'm a centimental Welshman and wouldn't want it any other way thank you!

I hope neither Willimas x 2 or Jones plays in the Australia match out of sympathy.

Nuggett I doubt will play any part due to Warburton being back. S Williams will be likley if still on form for the O's, Priestland in the man in possesion so I guess Jones may have to settle for bench slot.

Whether all or none of them play I would still like to see them get a well deserved ovation from the crowd.

I suppose Martyn could make it onto the bench, but then I suppose their more likely to take R Jones who can cover more positions.

If Priestland isn't fit enough then I wouldn't be suprised to see Jones being included, but he needs to seriously up his form.

Priest,

Even as a huge Nuggett fan I would be disappointed if he played any part in this game as I doubt he will get much regular game time for the Blues either this season. Would much prefer they had a look at Tupuiric, McCusker or Turnbull.

If Preistland is injured and with Hook in France then I guess Jones will be involved but I again would prefer to see Tovey given a shot with Jones on bench.

I'd love to see Tovey involved but I just don't see Gats doing it - and def not starting with him. I see it more likely he'd rely on the experience of Jones - and you never know he might include Henson on the bench regardless of how rusty he'll be.

Priest,

I do fear you are right regards you know who (but hope not), that said Gatland has seen the affect youth has on the side so if Priestlands out then I would hope he goes for an experience/youth mix with Jones and Tovey.

Even if Jones started and Tovey was given time off the bench then at least he is looking forward etc.

True, true - maybe in some ways it would be best is Priestland doesn't play and then Gats is forced to have a look at Tovey, especially as Jones won't make the Oz tour next year and if Hook is playing well at 10 then he won't be able to cover 15 (thankfully) and Gats should then turn to Tovey, and he'll be in the squad and can come on if Hook has another mare.

An interesting side issue to this is where the Blues actually play you know who.

I can't see him getting much gametime at centre what with Roberts and Lualala nor at XV if the Blues (hopefully) use Halfpenny as their first choice fullback.

I was always surprised when the Blues signed parks and Sweeney is no spring chicken so 10 might be where we see him get an extended run in the side.