Munster v Saints Teams Named

Munster Team:
01 Wian du Preez
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Paul O'Connell (c)
06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Niall Ronan
08 James Coughlan
09 Conor Murray
10 Ronan O'Gara
11 Denis Hurley
12 Lifeimi Mafi
13 Danny Barnes
14 Doug Howlett
15 Johne Murphy

16 Denis Fogarty
17 John Ryan
18 John Hayes
19 Donnacha O'Callaghan
20 Denis Leamy
21 Tomas O'Leary
22 Ian Keatley
23 Will Chambers

Some new faces - First Heineken Cup starts for O'Mahony, Murray and Barnes.

Northampton Saints Team
01 Soane Tonga'uiha
02 Dylan Hatley (c)
03 Brian Mujati
04 Courtney Lawes
05 Mark Sorenson
06 Calum Clark
07 Tom Wood
08 Roger Wilson
09 Lee Dickson
10 Ryan Lamb
11 Vasily Artemyev
12 James Downey
13 Jon Clarke
14 Chris Ashton
15 Ben Foden

16 Mike Haywood
17 Alex Waller
18 Paul Doran Jones
19 Samu Manoa
20 Phil Dowson
21 Martin Roberts
22 Stephen Myler
23 George Pisi

Thats an inredible back three

Incredible to think that Murray has started a World Cup 1/4 final and yet not played Heineken Cup rugby yet.

I'm happy to see that form has been rewarded and Ryan is starting at 4 ahead of DOC. The scrum should hold its own hopefully - I'm certainly not as worried about it as I have been in previous seasons. Backrow looks weak though.

There's also a lack of cut-and-thrust in the backline without Earls there. I'd never bet against Munster in Thomond but I wouldn't be surprised if Saints win this one.

Also:

Northampton Saints team...
15 Ben FODEN
14 Chris ASHTON
13 Jon CLARKE
12 James DOWNEY
11 Vasily ARTEMYEV
10 Ryan LAMB
9 Lee DICKSON
1 Soane TONGA'UIHA
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Brian MUJATI
4 Courtney LAWES
5 Mark SORENSON
6 Calum CLARK
7 Tom WOOD
8 Roger WILSON

Replacements
16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Paul DORAN JONES
19 Samu MANOA
20 Phil DOWSON
21 Martin ROBERTS
22 Stephen MYLER
23 George PISI

Bit suprised Sorenson is alongside Lawes, never really rated him that much. I assume Day is injured?

I think the work 'physical' will apply very much to this one.

Jaysus, its a good Northampton team. Interesting to see Artemyev debuting in the HC.
If Munster can get at Lamb - I reckon he can be flakey when provoked. Sounds like O'Mahony might be the man for the job !

The Munster back row is unfamiliar to me. Can anyone shed light on their pedigree please?

London Tiger:

Peter O'Mahony - 22 years old. Has captained Munster in the Pro 12 this season in several games. A hot head but has big potential.

Niall Ronan - poor as pisswater

James Coughlan - an underrated player. Has been a good performer in Europe over last few years

All in all its a poor backrow.

I have to say I like the Munster bench.

Munster bench is certainly stronger than the Saints bench.

Interesting Munster team.

Barnes and Mafi is a much more balanced combo. I haven't been impressed with Chambers and certainly him an Mafi is a pretty one dimensional combination.

Good to see POM in there but does Ronans inclusion suggest Munster are going to play a wide game? That would be a mistake IMO.

red_stag wrote:London Tiger:

Peter O'Mahony - 22 years old. Has captained Munster in the Pro 12 this season in several games. A hot head but has big potential.

Niall Ronan - poor as pisswater

James Coughlan - an underrated player. Has been a good performer in Europe over last few years

All in all its a poor backrow.

In fairness, that's an excellent summation. We really really miss Wallace.

I worry about Northampton's ability to run through us. Especially when it'll mean space for a lethal looking back three.

I can't figure out why we couldn't drop Ronan ahead of O'Callaghan or Leamy

Niall Ronan - poor as pisswater

Stag - the best description of Niall Ronan I've seen on these boards. He's grade A useless - I know DOC ain't playing great but for a game like this I'd have left him with POC in second row and played Ryan in back row.

Hope this doesn't come back to haunt ye against a very strong Saints back row

I thought Ronan played well against Leinster. His support play was very good.

roddersm wrote:I thought Ronan played well against Leinster. His support play was very good.

He made 2 great cover tackles during the game too. But he gave away 3 utterly brainless penalties and is completely underpowered at this level. I'd prefer a backrow of Ryan, POM, Coughlan with DOC at 4 - or Leamy at 6, DOC on the bench. Either would be better options. Baffling selection decision IMO.

Why is Tom May not in the centres? He's really surprised me with his attacking game so far this season, Clarke/Downey seems like a backwards step.

I hope they don't do a Wales on O'Gara...if the Saints can neutralise the Munster midfield there isn't enough carrying ability in the pack for O'Gara to feed off and like we saw against Wales when he can't pass to carriers he will kick it.....

look at who he will be kicking it to!

Downey and Clarke aren't rated that highly but if they can defensively dominate Barnes and Mafi then that is going to force ROG to kick and I think that would be a very bad thing for Munster tomorrow especially with a fairly good Saints lineout.

Munster can't really go wide, they are going to be relying on guys like Coughlan, POC, Mafi and POM to get forward ball almost entirely.

Where can Munster attack the Saints? Tight 5?

I have to say, looking at the teams, it's going to need a big old Munster performance to win this game. 1st XV against 1st XV player for player you'd have to say the Saints are the better side on paper. The Thomond factor will need to be in full swing here.

I'm wondering whether Keatley may have been the better option.

Downey v Mafi won't be pretty! Mafi might not be the biggest but feck he can tackle (not always legally either!)! He loves the big targets too as Mike Ross found out last weekend! I remember him absolutely flattening Chabal a few season back too.

If Saints are planning to send Downey down that channel there could be a few fireworks!

I was thinking that too Stag,

If Saints can cut off ROG's ball carrying options he has no other option but to kick or go into contact, he is effectively being led down a cul de sac, you'd back Keatley to be more effective at getting the backs going. Although if ROG is on song and finds space over the back3's heads to get touch then he will be invaluable.

The worst thing that could happen is for tactically the Saints to turn into Wales and for Munster to turn into Ireland....that is looking like a possibility.

roddersm wrote:If Saints are planning to send Downey down that channel there could be a few fireworks!

What other channel would they be sending him? Good player Downey, but not the most flexible or versatile. I think your predicted fireworks could well occur.

Big chance this for Tom Wood to stake a claim as a genuine openside. Most on here don't seem to think Ronan will be getting in his way.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Where can Munster attack the Saints? Tight 5?

I think Munster need to use the kicking game and peg the saints back then target the lineout. If they can get in Hartleys face then he can be rattled.

They need to target Ashton and Foden with high balls and kicks in in behind. Hurley and Howlett are very good chasers and they need to close Ashton down and get in his face the way Dowling did a few seasons ago.

Munster absolutley have to front up and match the saints physically in the pack because without Earls and Jones they simply don't have the backs to win it without a forward platform.

RS - Agree on Ronan. Would have preferred POM, Leamy and Coughlan. Ryan for DOC is the right call...if anything it will reinvigorate DOC.

If the Saints pack get up a head of steam we will suffer. On the other hand am looking forward to POM versus Hartley/Lawes...that could be interesting. Could be plenty of cards flying about.

POC v Lawes will be a cracker too. It looked like Lawes was ready to steal POC's crown as the most dominant lock in the home nations but O'Connell has come back with a vengence and is playing some of the best rugby of his career. He looks fit, powerful and hungry after his injury but Lawes will relish the test against him I'm sure.

Maybe our gameplan is to hope Nigel Owens favours the home team and therefore provoke the Saints into yellows.

Nigel Owen? Ye are sorted so.

I remember when if Munster got Owens as ref it was greeted with dread.....funny how things change.

Interesting that Saints have gone for Clark and Wood both on the flanks....

Will be good to watch to young England hopefuls.

Yappy....Tom may is class...an old Falcons favorite....

Whatever the game plan is Niall Ronan won't add to it. It's a completely clueless decision to even include him in the 22, never mind the bench. He gave away three penalties that were completely idiotic and pointless last week and he will do the same tomorrow. In a match against last years HC finalists that Munster simply have to win that's insane. Like others have said either Leamy or Ryan in the backrow would have been an infinitely better option. Hopefully Ronan will prove us all wrong but I'd sooner bet on one of these happening: http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb/betting/g/1156776/Specials.html

Saints back three scares the hell out of me and if ROG isn't on his greatest form so that he can kick more penalties than Ronan concedes I reckon they will win.

Backrow should be our priority signing not centre.

red_stag wrote:Backrow should be our priority signing not centre.

Disagree. We have a wealth of BR talent. It needs to be brought on and with Axel in charge of the forwards this will happen...

of the youngsters...

Butler
Dave O'Callaghan
Pat O'Haras son (Dave?)
O'Donnel

I think Munster have to do something different, the Saints backrow and centres will be waiting for the red jerseys feeding off ROG and they will be ready to counter them, ROG has to play flatter or else they will lose yards big time.

If they go wide they need to do it at the right times and execute because if the ball starts becoming static ROG will kick it away rather than try and create something more inventive than finding one off runners.

The fringes may be Munster's best attacking option

DOD-

Their our 3 backrow positions you can bring in youth in 2 and have a world class option in the third position who can get your team moving

You guys went for Chambers and he isn't starting today

Possibly DOD, though I would say we have decent young centres coming through - Danny Barnes, Tom Glesson, Ivan Dineen, JJ Hanrahan, Troy Smith and maybe Keith Earls (it frees up place for Zebo). IMO Keatley will get the backline moving better than ROG has been doing and its easier for a weaker backline to play well behind a dominant pack than vice versa.

Our pack needs a solution soon. Chambers is going in 2 months and it leaves a NIQ spot open.

Pete - luckily the fringes is where we do most attacking. Munster has a secret weapon you mightnt have heard of. . . .we call it the pick and drive.

I think Munster priority needs to be a ball carrying backrower, maybe a top class number 8.

They are still shy of ball carriers. It is so critical to have guys who can get you over the gainline and present quick ball. It doesn't matter how good your backs are if you can't get them on the front foot.

Without Wallace there they just don't have that go to guy. They've been going wide far too early and using Howlett on the crash (hospital)ball and its all too obvious. When that fails it's back to the pick and go.

It's unfortunate for Munster that they've finally sorted their scrum out and now their two best backs and best backrower are injured.

Pete - luckily the fringes is where we do most attacking. Munster has a secret weapon you mightnt have heard of. . . .we call it the pick and drive

Unfortunately its been in reverse for some time,

Maybe POM will front up. Also Coughlan is an excellent ball carrier when he doestn have to spend the whole game fire fighting.

Pick and drive is only going to get you so far against Northampton and you will have Ronan coming in from the side trying to protect his own ball as per usual.

1 ball carrying backrow please!! and Keatley possibly-maybe

Ok so Pick and Drive and tie Niall Ronan to the post. We'll play with 14.

These two teams had three great tussles two years ago in the Heineken Cup. It was 2 games to 1 in Munsters favour after they knocked them out in the quarters. It'll be interesting to see how much Northampton have improved (if at all), and how much Munster have declined (if at all).

I'd be worried if I was Munster fan. Usually you'd say Munster just don't lose in Thomond in Europe. But last year they lost to Harlequins in the Amlin. The first crack in the fortress.

Its so hard to tell. In 2007 we were reigning champs and ended up losing to Tigers at home and were knocked out by Llanelli who were ok but not world beaters then.

Then 2008 we won the thing outright again and made the semi finals in 2009 and 2010.

Impossible to tell.

red_stag wrote:Ok so Pick and Drive and tie Niall Ronan to the post. We'll play with 14.

On paper, you'd have to say that Northampton are stronger in just about every area of the park. Munster may shade the half backs, but you gotta love to hate O'Gara.

Would you really say Saints have better locks - Irelands' 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice locks. Lawes is good but how do Sorenson and Manoa hold up.

Manoa has been awesome in the early stages of the Jeff. Absolute beast.

Hahaha! That would be quite the spectacle alright.

Don't understand why he didn't go for DOC or Leamy over Ryan!
Looks really bad for either McGahan or Leamy/O'Callaghan though!!

Yeah pick and drives and aiming at 10.
Jaysus though!

Afternoon folks,
I don't think Saints have better locks. Lawes is incredibly physical and can dominate most opposition. But Sorenson is OK and Manoa is extremely young. This is a strength for Munster.

The other place I would attack Saints would be at out half. Lamb has a history of great and dynamic play, as well as being woeful and error-prone. Sometimes at the same time. Very inconsistent. I think if Saints get ahead, Myler will come on and keep the match controlled.

I'd say Munster have the edge at lock and half back - that's about it. Centres are a close call.

Saints have a better front row, a much better back row and a considerably more dangerous back three.

The key for Munster is to get ROG kicking to the corners and POC giving Hartley nightmares. Take Saints' attacking rhythm away from them and it'll be easier to close them down.

Big test this for Lamb. I've been talking him up recently so he'd better sodding repay my faith!

The difference between Lamb and ROG though is that if pressure comes on Lamb he can adjust and shift the play a different way or kick (and it will be perculiar to see him kick in certain positions) where as with ROG if you cut him off from his ball carriers, you know he will not run himself and challenge the defence (to a greater or lesser extent) and the back 3 can comfortably drop back and make it harder for him to kick territory.

ROG rarely passes back inside, he rarely runs switches or wraps, it's generally a pass to a ball carrier or a screen or a kick.

Oh and Munster A team is playing tonight in Clonmel:

01 Dave Kilcoyne
02 Sean Henry
03 Stephen Archer
04 Ian Nagle
05 Mick O'Driscoll
06 Billy Holland
07 Tommy O'Donnell
08 Paddy Butler
09 Peter Stringer
10 Scott Deasy
11 Simon Zebo
12 JJ Hanrahan
13 Tom Gleeson
14 Ronan O'Mahony
15 Luke O'Dea

16 Duncan Casey
17 John Ryan
18 Dave Foley
19 Brian O'Hara
20 Duncan Williams
21 Darren Moroney
22 Corey Hircock