Billy Conn - How much did his over-enthusiasm cost him!!

Just what would playing it safe had given him....

Immortality..Undisputed unbeaten 175 pound champion and Heavyweight champion beating one of the greatest heavyweights of alltime!!!!

Just where would he be..one has to summise he becomes an overnight alltime p4p great...

Maybe top 20 of alltime just by spoiling after the wobble which wins him the 13th!!!!

How much did risking it all cost BILLY CONN...A name?, huge wealth????

Conn's legacy if he won the fight like he should???

I don't suppose there's any doubt that, had Conn beaten Louis, his stock would have risen sharply in the overall scheme of things.

The question, of course, is whether or not he would have beaten Louis had they heard the final bell. Louis intimated that he believed Conn could have won when the two were interviewed, many years later, and Conn rued that he had fallen short of taking the title. Louis, in typically laconic manner, replied " Billy, you had the championship for twelve rounds, but you didn't know what to do with it."

Notwithstanding this commendable piece of sportsmanship from Louis, the fact remains that it was still within his grasp to win the fight on points. Also fair to point out that Louis actually created the opening by which he was able to kayo Conn. Louis, as we know, was as lethal in the fifteenth as he was in the third.

Always a nice subject to ponder, this one, and nice to see an article given to it.

He made the opening windy but it has to be said also that his legs flying everywhere brought Conn off his ballgame.....

Not a given he survives till the end but he'd done well up to that point before he traded..

I'd hasten a guess that if he hadn't gone crazy he wins..

My gut feeling is also that Conn could have boxed to a decision, had he not been pole axed, Truss. I guess it all hinges on how much the knockout was down to Louis and how much to Conn.

Monte Cox ( an unashamed Louis fan, ) presents the Louis case here :

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/louis_conn.html

and somewhere ( I'll try to find it, ) I've read the opposing argument - might have been Frank Lotziero, though I can't remember. If I find it, I'll post it here.

Not sure if the entire fight survives, but I do know that I have only a few rounds of it ( including the finish, of course, ) and that's always frustrating.

Probably would have. But thats a part of boxing - knowing when to hit top gear and when to coast and keep to whatever is winning you the fight. Louis - quite probably the most accurate puncher of all time - saw his opportunity and took it - whereas Conn saw an opportunity and misjudged it. Difference between the very greatest and the great I suppose.

Found it.

It was Dan Colgan who produced the case for Conn. Here you go :

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w0202-dc.htm

Nice one, Windy.

Such an intriguing fight this one, particularly for the 'what could have been's'.

Nice article, Truss.

I don't need to know Louis won the fight Shah..although I appreciate your offering.

I'm speculating as to Conn's place in history had he spoilt the last two and a half rounds..


Interesting suff windy..

Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

Theodore Roosevelt


Billy Conn epitomised the Fighting Irish. He ducked nobody.

To think he beat Fritzie Zivic at welterweight and ended up fighting Louis at only 170 lbs. He defeated 10 world champions along the way.


Conn always said he promised his terminally ill mother that he would knock Louis out and never stopped trying to deliver on that promise.


The war years robbed Conn of his skills and the Louis rematch 5 years later saw a Conn that was a shadow of the one that first fought Louis.


Louis was the only fighter to knock Conn out. Conn defeated the 9 other heavyweights he fought.


I agree Conn would have achieved immortality if he had cruised through the last few rounds with Louis.

I'm glad I found it so quickly, Fists.

Not doing so would have had the potential to ruin my weekend.

Take it strongy is a big fan...

The one thing worth remembering is it was perhaps not as straight for Conn as merely coasting for the last three rounds. Had Louis won all three he would have got the judges decision so Conn had to do something. Often portrayed if he stayed on his feet he won, which is not quite the same.

However is undeniable that he did come out to try and knock Louis out and his over aggression perhaps created the opportunities Joe needed when perhaps just sticking to his boxing would have been the obvious plan to utilise. The real crazy thing is, whilst I think his power is a bit better than he gets credit for it would be overselling it to say he was a big puncher even at light heavy so why he fought he could KO Joe is beyond me.

Personally I think if he is smart he gets through the fight and takes the decision, pretty hard to argue that it does not do wonders for his standing, still to this day so few have made the leap from light heavy to heavy and even fewer by dethroning such a great champion to do it.

Cheers Rowley but I'm kind of saying he wins the thirteenth through rocking Louis....

I know Truss - I was merely pointing out that his mistake might have given an indication as to where his place in history lies. Goes without saying that his stock would be considerably higher had he beaten Louis. I think the better question would have been would Louis' ranking in history suffered due to a loss to Conn.

What you said was valid and accepted.....much more interested in a perceived position for this guy if he'd won..

Fair enough. If he beats Louis - He automatically jumps into the top ten p4p - no question maybe even top five- it would be like Roy jones beating Mike Tyson while at LHW limits. Somewhere around Armstrong. I'm not sure if he does enough to stop himself being dethroned when Robinsons career ends but he would be right there & deserving of it. Just out of curiousity - any chance of an instant rematch should Louis lose?

As to the actual bout itself - I don't think Louis totals him if he keeps up his what he was doing before. He had no extra weight and didn't look to be tiring. A little restraint may have elevated him into top dog briefly.

rowley wrote:The one thing worth remembering is it was perhaps not as straight for Conn as merely coasting for the last three rounds. Had Louis won all three he would have got the judges decision so Conn had to do something. Often portrayed if he stayed on his feet he won, which is not quite the same.

However is undeniable that he did come out to try and knock Louis out and his over aggression perhaps created the opportunities Joe needed when perhaps just sticking to his boxing would have been the obvious plan to utilise. The real crazy thing is, whilst I think his power is a bit better than he gets credit for it would be overselling it to say he was a big puncher even at light heavy so why he fought he could KO Joe is beyond me.

Personally I think if he is smart he gets through the fight and takes the decision, pretty hard to argue that it does not do wonders for his standing, still to this day so few have made the leap from light heavy to heavy and even fewer by dethroning such a great champion to do it.

Looking at Conn's record he stopped his previous 4 opponents all at heavyweight. He confidence must have been high going into the Louis fight.


Again looking at the record he gave Louis 25 lbs. He was accustomed to being smaller and getting a stoppage against heavies. Conn seems to be described as a clever fighter so maybe he briefly lost the run of himself, blood to the head and all that.


As an aside he beat 10 men who at one time held the world title.

ShahenshahG wrote: any chance of an instant rematch should Louis lose?

An immediate rematch was set up but Conn broke his hand over his father-in-laws head at a family function and then the war started.

Strongback wrote:Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

Theodore Roosevelt


Billy Conn epitomised the Fighting Irish. He ducked nobody.

To think he beat Fritzie Zivic at welterweight and ended up fighting Louis at only 170 lbs. He defeated 10 world champions along the way.


Conn always said he promised his terminally ill mother that he would knock Louis out and never stopped trying to deliver on that promise.


The war years robbed Conn of his skills and the Louis rematch 5 years later saw a Conn that was a shadow of the one that first fought Louis.


Louis was the only fighter to knock Conn out. Conn defeated the 9 other heavyweights he fought.


I agree Conn would have achieved immortality if he had cruised through the last few rounds with Louis.

Grew up getting a boxing education on Billy Conn my dad's favourite fighter of all time,superb beautiful boxer in full flow and to move up to Heavyweight and nearly shock Louis says everything about how good a boxer he was,didn't have massive punching power if he had would have been unstoppable.
Don't Know if anyone saw the picture he drew of how he was going to knock Louis(Conn on his knees drawing it) out but ironically was exactly how he got beat.
My father showed me a picture of Conn late in life looked like a film star, thick hair, good looking bloke,quality suit and a pair of white spats.
If my dad was still with us today Strongback, you wouldn't have got off this forum all day talking about Billy Conn.

Nico the gman wrote:

Grew up getting a boxing education on Billy Conn my dad's favourite fighter of all time,superb beautiful boxer in full flow and to move up to Heavyweight and nearly shock Louis says everything about how good a boxer he was,didn't have massive punching power if he had would have been unstoppable.
Don't Know if anyone saw the picture he drew of how he was going to knock Louis(Conn on his knees drawing it) out but ironically was exactly how he got beat.
My father showed me a picture of Conn late in life looked like a film star, thick hair, good looking bloke,quality suit and a pair of white spats.
If my dad was still with us today Strongback, you wouldn't have got off this forum all day talking about Billy Conn.

Conn was a class act alright. Fast feet and hands and came to fight. He hit Louis all night with that whipping left hand lead. I think when he fought back in the 13th, when Louis clobbered him, he was initially able to back Louis up by going on the offensive but Louis' strength of punches was just too much.

You can almost sense the moment Louis the assassin realises Conn is struggling, Louis didn't waste any time finishing it.

Your father had good taste in boxers.

Strongback wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote: any chance of an instant rematch should Louis lose?

An immediate rematch was set up but Conn broke his hand over his father-in-laws head at a family function and then the war started.

Much obliged

Great line in the film On The Waterfront Marlon Brando"I could have been a contender" Rod Steiger "You could have been another Billy Conn"say's how highly rated Billy Conn was a line in one of the all time great classic films.

Nico the gman wrote:Great line in the film On The Waterfront Marlon Brando"I could have been a contender" Rod Steiger "You could have been another Billy Conn"say's how highly rated Billy Conn was a line in one of the all time great classic films.

Especially when we consider that there were three genuine ex Louis contenders ( Galento, Mauriello and Simon, ) who had parts in the film. It would have been so easy to name one of those.