scotland team to start six nations

Currently I think that this team should start vs england:

1.Jacobsen
2.Ford
3.E.Murray
4.Richie Gray
5.Jim Hamilton
6.K.Brown
7.John Barclay
8.Ryan Wilson
9.Cusiter
10.Weir
11.Sean Lamont
12.De Luca
13.Ansbro
14.Max Evans
15.Rory Lamont
16.Moray Low
17.Scott Lawson
18.Gilchrist
19.Rennie
20.Blair
21.Leonard
22.Paterson

when does Tim Visser qualify?

June 2012

Im surprised David Denton isn't in your starting 22.

Also is de Luca really the best option at 12? What about Lamont there and use another back three player?

shame he won't be available for the 6N, 11 Tim Visser 12 S.Lamont 13 Ansbro 14 Max Evans 15 Rory Lamont, looks very decent.

Isn't Denton supposed to be better than Wilson? He looks impressive, although I haven't seen all that much of Wilson.

Wilson looked good today, De Luca is a better distributor however Lamont is more powerful.

No one know when Johnnie Beattie is back?

Will he ever be back? played for Ayr at the weekend...not sure what that tells you

Driver - RIP 606 wrote:No one know when Johnnie Beattie is back?

He is back, just can't shift Ryan Wilson to get back in the Warriors team. altho he did put in a MOTM shift for Ayr, as Mckay says, in the B&I Cup at the weekend

123456789 wrote:Currently I think that this team should start vs england:

1.Jacobsen
2.Ford
3.E.Murray
4.Richie Gray
5.Jim Hamilton
6.K.Brown
7.John Barclay
8.Ryan Wilson
9.Cusiter
10.Weir
11.Sean Lamont
12.De Luca
13.Ansbro
14.Max Evans
15.Rory Lamont
16.Moray Low
17.Scott Lawson
18.Gilchrist
19.Rennie
20.Blair
21.Leonard
22.Paterson

It's too early for me to select a team, but I'll happily highlight the players that I feel ought to be in consideration:

1.Jacobsen, Grant, Welsh (no Dickinson, never, ever again)
2.Ford, Thomson (ok, Lawson at a push, but what's happened to Andy Kelly?)
3.E.Murray (hmm, that's it? Moray Low, pls find some form; Geoff Cross, Corbs beasted you at the weekend, pls relearn how to scrummage)
4.Richie Gray
5.Jim Hamilton, Grant Gilchrist, Al Kellock
6.K.Brown, D Denton
7.John Barclay, R Rennie
8.Ryan Wilson, S McInally, D Denton (Beattie will come back too, I have every confidence)
9.Cusiter, Laidlaw, Blair
10.Weir, Leonard, Jackson
11.Sean Lamont (Visser from June 2012 onwards)
12.De Luca, Matt Scott
13.Ansbro, De Luca
14.Max Evans, Lee Jones
15.Rory Lamont, Stuart Hogg, Jim Thompson

Plenty of options in most positions

11.Sean Lamont (Visser from June 2012 onwards)

you'd end Sean Lamont's Scotland career once Visser becomes available?

Turkster wrote:

11.Sean Lamont (Visser from June 2012 onwards)

you'd end Sean Lamont's Scotland career once Visser becomes available?

No, I'm listing alternatives

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Turkster wrote:

11.Sean Lamont (Visser from June 2012 onwards)

you'd end Sean Lamont's Scotland career once Visser becomes available?

No, I'm listing alternatives

damn, we could do with him being here 100% of the season, great player.

Aslongas - think you are being a bit harsh on Dickinson. Yes he's no world beater but, provided he plays loosehead, he is still our best alternative to Chunk just now (Ryan Grant showing promise granted).

He is definitely way ahead in my pecking order just now than Welsh or (God forbid) Traynor.

As for Sean Lamont - I would argue that 2012 should probably be his last year. The guy is 32 just now and, although he has been a fantastic servant for Scottish rugby, we've got exciting talent coming through on the wings and it is time to get these guys involved.

If he's going to play anywhere just now it should be centre.

There are plenty of options at the moment which is great, but having options and having international quality players to choose from is a different thing altogether.

A form XV for my money probably looks something like this (ignoring injured players like Jackson and Ansbro):

1. Jacobsen
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Hamilton
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Rennie
8. McInally
9. Cusiter
10. Weir
11. S Lamont
12. M Scott
13. N De Luca
14. L Jones
15. S Hogg

16. Grant 17. S Lawson 18. A Kellock 19. R Harley 20. G Laidlaw 21. D Parks 22. J Thompson

Haven't seen Rory Lamont or Max Evans since the WC so I'm no including them for that reason alone.

Just an indication of where I see form at the moment. Not necessarily the side I'd pick. Creates some interesting outcomes though.

funnyExiledScot wrote:There are plenty of options at the moment which is great, but having options and having international quality players to choose from is a different thing altogether.

A form XV for my money probably looks something like this (ignoring injured players like Jackson and Ansbro):

1. Jacobsen
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Hamilton
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Rennie
8. McInally
9. Cusiter
10. Weir
11. S Lamont
12. M Scott
13. N De Luca
14. L Jones
15. S Hogg

16. Grant 17. S Lawson 18. A Kellock 19. R Harley 20. G Laidlaw 21. D Parks 22. J Thompson

Haven't seen Rory Lamont or Max Evans since the WC so I'm no including them for that reason alone.

Just an indication of where I see form at the moment. Not necessarily the side I'd pick. Creates some interesting outcomes though.

fES, this weekend was really the first strong appearances from McInally and Parks - if form doesn't come on one game alone,I think you'd have to go with Wilson and Leonard

Happy to make those switches, I was really picking from the HC, as that's a better yard stick I think in terms of quality now that the World Cup players are returning, so it's pretty misguided trying to do this on the basis of one game.

1.Jacobsen
2.Ford
3.Murray
4.Gray
5.Hamilton [I don't trust Gray & Kellock partnership - seems to ruin the scrum every time]
6.Brown - Captain
7.Rennie
8.Beattie [if not then Denton]
9.Cusiter
10.Jackson
11.Paterson [but Jackson kicking]
12.S Lamont
13.Ansbro
14.Evans
15.R Lamont

16 Cross
17 Thomson
18 Kellock
19 Barclay [make him play for his position again]
20 Laidlaw [with a view to perhaps giving a sub after 40 or 50 minutes - give him a chance to usurp]
21 Weir
22 J Thompson

I'm fed up of making scrum half the captain - it doesn't work. See what Brown can do. Paterson might get injured or subbed so I wouldn't recommend him.

Keep Danielli and Walker as far away from the squad as possible. Bring in some newcomers from the bench first with a view to them having a start later on if they play well.

If you want what Robinson will actually pick it will unfortunately look like this:

1.Jacobsen
2.Ford
3.Murray
4.Gray
5.Kellock
6.Brown
7.Barclay
8.Beattie
9.Lawson
10.Jackson
11.S Lamont
12.Morrison
13.Ansbro
14.Evans
15.Paterson

16 Cross
17 Lawson [= yellow card at the death]
18 Hamilton
19 Rennie
20 Cusiter / Blair [VC]
21 Parks [!]
22 Danielli

Someone please tell me I'm wrong about that.

I don't think we can be certain Beattie will be in Robinson's plans, not untill he gets back into the Glasgow side. Remember that Robinson left him out of the WC squad, and that in the meantime, Vernon, Denton, McInally and Wilson have been putting forward strong cases.

I also don't agree with your suggestion that CP play on the wing. He's never been a good winger for Scotland, he's not a strong finisher, always better running from deep.

If you really don't want to see Danielli or Walker near the squad, both better wingers than Paterson in my view, then I suggest having a look at Lee Jones. A proper finisher, sharp off the mark and able to beat defenders one on one.

CP is most definitely not a winger.

Realistically I would hope that Weir, Laidlaw, Denton and Lee Jones will get game time in the 6N as they have been consistent performers over the last season or two. I think Robinson may see Matt Scott and Leonard as ones for the future as they have only started a handful of professional games. Mcinally and Ryan Grant are potentials but would have to perform consistently week in week out over the coming months to be near selection I think.

For what it's worth, I'd like to see against England:

1 - Chunk
2 - Ford (playing his best rugby for a long time just now)
3 - Murray
4 - Gray (at almost 20st he really shouldn't be a weak link in the scrums)
5 - Kellock (gets his crazy eyes when playing England)
6 - Strokosh (see Kellock)
7 - Rennie (Barclay is way out of form and Rennie deserves the place)
8 - Brown
9 - Cusiter
10 - Weir/Jackson (whoever is playing for the Weedge)
11 - Max
12 - Lamont
13 - De Luca
14 - Asbo
15 - Lamont

Bench - Cross, Lawson, Hamilton, Denton, Laidlaw, Jackson/Weir, Jim Thomson

Good blend of experience and easing in new players.

RDW_Scotland wrote:CP is most definitely not a winger.

Realistically I would hope that Weir, Laidlaw, Denton and Lee Jones will get game time in the 6N as they have been consistent performers over the last season or two. I think Robinson may see Matt Scott and Leonard as ones for the future as they have only started a handful of professional games. Mcinally and Ryan Grant are potentials but would have to perform consistently week in week out over the coming months to be near selection I think.

For what it's worth, I'd like to see against England:

1 - Chunk
2 - Ford (playing his best rugby for a long time just now)
3 - Murray
4 - Gray (at almost 20st he really shouldn't be a weak link in the scrums)
5 - Kellock (gets his crazy eyes when playing England)
6 - Strokosh (see Kellock)
7 - Rennie (Barclay is way out of form and Rennie deserves the place)
8 - Brown
9 - Cusiter
10 - Weir/Jackson (whoever is playing for the Weedge)
11 - Max
12 - Lamont
13 - De Luca
14 - Asbo
15 - Lamont

Bench - Cross, Lawson, Hamilton, Denton, Laidlaw, Jackson/Weir, Jim Thomson

Good blend of experience and easing in new players.

Hope you're right, RDW, looking forward to my call up - it's never too late, so they say!

"14 - ASBO"

AsLongAsBut100ofUs??

Slightly long in the tooth I think to be playing international rugby

I thought Barclay played pretty well on Sunday. Wouldn't say he was "way out of form". I'd go with Rennie though as he's playing better.

I haven't seen Rory Lamont play this season. Is he playing well? I think Ansbro is injured at the moment so I currently wouldn't consider him until he's back. It'll be hard for him to get into the Irish 1st XV with Shingler, Ojo, Thompstone and Tagikacibau knocking around.

Sorry - I call Ansbro Asbo!

That team wasn't based on current form but with what I think he'll go with, barring injuries and drops in form.

I agree Barclay did OK on Sunday but Rennie is definitely ahead of him.

I think Robbo will go with the following XV:

1.Jacobsen 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.Hamilton 5.Gray 6.Brown 7.Barclay 8.Vernon 9.Cusiter 10.Weir 11.S Lamont 12.Morrison 13.De Luca 14.Evans 15.R Lamont

16.Dickinson 17.S Lawson 18.Kellock 19.Strokosch 20.Blair 21.Jackson 22.Ansbro

I do think form and fitness will have some impact on Robbo, but not a huge amount. He likes continuity and has loyalty to certain players like Dickinson, Barclay and Morrison.

I don't think the above team is a bad team, it just wouldn't be my pick right now.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think Robbo will go with the following XV:

12.Morrison 13.De Luca

I don't think the above team is a bad team, it just wouldn't be my pick right now.

I would say that with those two it is a bad team - in fact one of the worst teams in the world - in fact worst than that - the worst team in the universe.

We came second bottom in trys scored in teh WC for a reason

Terrible terrible terrible players

The rest is not bad though

De Luca has been playing very well for Edinburgh this season so is the form player just now.

Just a shame he's never fully replicated it for Scotland, although (the fumble against England aside) he did OK in the world cup and the lead up to it.

Other than maybe Ansbro, who is lacking game time anywhere never mind 13, or Lamont are the only real options.

In fact I would have ASBO in there before Morrision - now how desperate am I

How awful that these threads always descend into the differences between the form/exciting/aspirational team that we'd like and the team that Andrew Florence Robinson will actually choose.

Realistically, I hope for the following:

1. Rennie ahead of Barclay.

2. Brown at 8 (neither Vernon nor Beattie are likely to be up to it) so that Strokosch can take the 6 shirt.

3. Hamilton and Gray as the starters at lock.

4. NO Morrison

Things that I'd like to happen but won't are:

1. Lee Jones being nailed on as the starting 11.

2. Hogg nailed on as the starting 15.

3. Cuss and Weir being the starting hinge, with Laidlaw and Jackson on the bench.

4. Denton plays a full 40 against SOMEONE.

5. Ansbro and Max in the centre

6. For someone to have made a mistake with the paperwork, meaning Sir Tim of Orangey can start this campaign.

6. McInally and Harley to get a full 40 minutes each.

Should Scotland maybe try moving Barclay to 6 and playing Rennie at 7? Sort of similar to Hill accommodating Back, and look how well that worked!

Future Scottish back row:

6) Barclay
7) Rennie
8) Denton

Looks good to me!

Vernon should be nowhere near the squad. He's fast and that's it. Too small and way too soft for rugby.

We need a strong agressive ball carrier at the back. A Scott Quinnell type.

There's too much dead wood floating around now. Players for the international scrap heap:

CP
G Morrison
M Blair
H Southwell (just in case he weasle's himself back in)
D Parks
N Walker
S Lawson

Some particularly unfair players listed there.

Why Mike Blair? Been playing pretty well recently. Similarly Vernon, who was decent at the WC and has started well with Sale. Nikki Walker was playing well prior to the WC and would have travelled but for injury. Why rule him out now?

Scott Lawson in particular is odd. Currently our second best hooking option. Why rule him out?

Why not just pick on form? Why ignore players if they deserve to be there?

funnyExiledScot wrote:Some particularly unfair players listed there.

Why Mike Blair? Been playing pretty well recently. Similarly Vernon, who was decent at the WC and has started well with Sale. Nikki Walker was playing well prior to the WC and would have travelled but for injury. Why rule him out now?

Scott Lawson in particular is odd. Currently our second best hooking option. Why rule him out?

FES - because he's a penalty liability donkey.

I can think of only one match where his indiscipline cost us - the Wales game in Cardiff.

He's a good thrower with a decent work rate around the park. He lacks the size and power to be a top international player but when compared to Dougie Hall he's quite comfortably a more useful individual.

Thomson is injured as is Andrew Kelly.

I personally think we need Scott Lawson.

fES

My reasons are:

CP - Past it now, lacks his original speed, lightweight and dare I say it, his kicking talent will soon disperse. Better options at FB

GM - Poopie - simple as.

MB - I would put him behind CC and GL. GL brings more to the table with his kicking. On second thoughts, MB could possibly cover injuries if needed but only for his solid yet unspectacular (these days) play.

HS - offers nothing with RL and JT far better options

DP - Jackson the main player now with Weir stating his case that he should be next up in line.

NW - How many chances do you want to give this guy? Not a bad game against Italy and a promising start before his early exit in the warm up but to me that's not enough. SD, SL, ME, LJ are better options for Scotland. He has never proved himself internationally ever.

SL - I'd rather have my nana on the bench. May throw ok and good in the loose but he has no concept of thinking during a game of rugby. If there was one person you could bet on screwing up a win, it would be him. Odds on every time!

CP - I agree. I think Jim Thompson is now the preferred option at 15 for Edinburgh and with Weir looking like being the best option at 10, we don't need his kicking. Rory Lamont and Stuart Hogg now also good options at 15.

GM - depends on the options. S Lamont is an option as should Matt Scott come the 6 Nations. Need to wait and see how Scott progresses.

MB - disagree. It's a form position in particular and if he's playing well he should be picked. He started ahead of Laidlaw last weekend.

HS - agree, he's not setting the world on fire at Wasps either.

DP - difficult, but I think Weir at present is first choice, Jackson will come back if fit and if 3rd choice, I'd rather give that chance to Leonard than Parks.

NW - I pick my wingers on form, simple as. He's obviously injured at the moment, but was playing well before injury.

SL - I disagree, for the reasons stated above. I don't think we can discard him just because of one match.

funnyExiledScot wrote:CP - I agree. I think Jim Thompson is now the preferred option at 15 for Edinburgh and with Weir looking like being the best option at 10, we don't need his kicking. Rory Lamont and Stuart Hogg now also good options at 15.

GM - depends on the options. S Lamont is an option as should Matt Scott come the 6 Nations. Need to wait and see how Scott progresses.

MB - disagree. It's a form position in particular and if he's playing well he should be picked. He started ahead of Laidlaw last weekend.

HS - agree, he's not setting the world on fire at Wasps either.

DP - difficult, but I think Weir at present is first choice, Jackson will come back if fit and if 3rd choice, I'd rather give that chance to Leonard than Parks.

NW - I pick my wingers on form, simple as. He's obviously injured at the moment, but was playing well before injury.

SL - I disagree, for the reasons stated above. I don't think we can discard him just because of one match.

FES - we will need to agree to disagree about SL. Every time I see him on the pitch, I go to the bathroom a little. His positional play is absolutely appalling - I have lost count of the number of times he stands in front of a scrum half's pass or pops up in the backline and slows moves down.

If you're interested, a friend of mine took the same view as you (that Lawson is picked on unfairly) and we had a drinking contest during one Six Nations to check this. Every time SL did something daft, my mate would have a drink. If he did something well, I would. My mate was absolutely hammered by 70 minutes.

George Carlin wrote:

If you're interested, a friend of mine took the same view as you (that Lawson is picked on unfairly) and we had a drinking contest during one Six Nations to check this. Every time SL did something daft, my mate would have a drink. If he did something well, I would. My mate was absolutely hammered by 70 minutes.

That's impressive considering he usually comes on at the 60 minute mark!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Future Scottish back row:

6) Barclay
7) Rennie
8) Denton

Looks good to me!

Barclay Is not a big enough tackler to cover the blindside. Stroks or Kelly Brown are far better options at 6. Denton is playing well but to be honest McInally is playing better at 8, what he lacks in physicallity he makes up for in guile and pace. McInally almost forms the perfect middle ground between Vernon and Beattie's style of no 8 play. Onto Beattie, make no mistake about it our best no 8 by some distance when on form and if newspaper reports are to be belived seems to have played very well for Ayr.

For what it's worth this is the team I would like to see open up against England.

1. Jacobson
2. Ford (C)
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. McInally

9. Cus
10. Weir
11. Jones
12. Scott
13. NDL
14. Ansbro
15. Hogg/Lamont/Thompson

As for the bench I'll have to think about what I would want, quick guys to run the English ragged or powerful bruisers to tenderise them into submission. But That backline I think could do very well. May seem light weight but NDL and Scott kept Hape and co in Check very well on Saturday with NDL putting in a particularly physical shift.

The comments made by people earlier on clearly have not taken into account how well he has been playing recently.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think Robbo will go with the following XV:

1.Jacobsen 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.Hamilton 5.Gray 6.Brown 7.Barclay 8.Vernon 9.Cusiter 10.Weir 11.S Lamont 12.Morrison 13.De Luca 14.Evans 15.R Lamont

16.Dickinson 17.S Lawson 18.Kellock 19.Strokosch 20.Blair 21.Jackson 22.Ansbro

I do think form and fitness will have some impact on Robbo, but not a huge amount. He likes continuity and has loyalty to certain players like Dickinson, Barclay and Morrison.

I don't think the above team is a bad team, it just wouldn't be my pick right now.

fES, I fear that you may be right - this is virtually the same shower that underperformed in NZ, so I pray that Robbo is thinking ahead and not picking on past reputations, but genuinely on current form and with an eye to 2015. New brooms pls!

RR - I do like the look of that team.

I would like to see Evans in there (if on form of course fES ) on the wing instead of Ansboro if he's just back from injury.

On another note, does anyone else have a horrible feeling that Visser's form is going to divebomb around the same time he's eligible to play for Scotland?

I’m pretty sure RLamont in injured at the moment and he hasn’t played for Toulon this season. No idea how long he’s out for. I fear Robinson may stick with a few players who should make way for the youngsters coming through, namely Parks, Southwell, Morrison and maybe Patterson. I’d love to see Laidlaw, Weir, Jones and Hogg involved with the squad.

George Carlin wrote:If you're interested, a friend of mine took the same view as you (that Lawson is picked on unfairly) and we had a drinking contest during one Six Nations to check this. Every time SL did something daft, my mate would have a drink. If he did something well, I would. My mate was absolutely hammered by 70 minutes.

He hasn't started a 6 Nations match for a few years so that must have been a while ago, and he hasn't started one since THAT game against Wales in 2010.

I think fans have really punished him for that. I see him as a solid option, nothing more, but he's still our second best fit hooking option. As always, people seem focused on the negative aspects of the players in the squad, rather than on potential replacements. When you do that, perhaps sadly, you realise that in some positions we're stuck with what we've got.

Hopefully Andrew Kelly and Fergus Thomson can return to full fitness and provide better options, or even MacArthur (although his discipline hardly looked ideal against Bath, as he went mountain climbing on Hooper's back).

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:On another note, does anyone else have a horrible feeling that Visser's form is going to divebomb around the same time he's eligible to play for Scotland?

More likely is that he'll continue setting the world on fire for Edinburgh but will look a completely different player in a Scotland jersey, where he'll need to learn to catch the ball behind him, above his head and off his shoe laces.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:If you're interested, a friend of mine took the same view as you (that Lawson is picked on unfairly) and we had a drinking contest during one Six Nations to check this. Every time SL did something daft, my mate would have a drink. If he did something well, I would. My mate was absolutely hammered by 70 minutes.

He hasn't started a 6 Nations match for a few years so that must have been a while ago, and he hasn't started one since THAT game against Wales in 2010.

I think fans have really punished him for that. I see him as a solid option, nothing more, but he's still our second best fit hooking option. As always, people seem focused on the negative aspects of the players in the squad, rather than on potential replacements. When you do that, perhaps sadly, you realise that in some positions we're stuck with what we've got.

Hopefully Andrew Kelly and Fergus Thomson can return to full fitness and provide better options, or even MacArthur (although his discipline hardly looked ideal against Bath, as he went mountain climbing on Hooper's back).

It was a few years ago now but it sure as shi!t did happen. I always thought Andrew Kelly looked like a prospect.

No wonder Ford has had so much gametime in recent years, when you see how otherwise bare the cupboard is.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:RR - I do like the look of that team.

I would like to see Evans in there (if on form of course fES ) on the wing instead of Ansboro if he's just back from injury.

On another note, does anyone else have a horrible feeling that Visser's form is going to divebomb around the same time he's eligible to play for Scotland?

No way Tattie - class is permanent.

There are a number of good ways of getting smashed watching Scotland:

- a drink for each time Chunk catches and drops the ball at first receiver

- continuous drinking whilst Mike Blair waits to pass the ball from the base of the ruck (lethal)

- a drink for each sub Robinson introduces on the 60th minute mark

- a drink for each time Morrison runs hard at the opposition and then stops just before making contact (you'll need your stomach pumped after this one)

- a drink for each Sean Lamont offload that hits the deck.


That'll keep you going!

You get a toilet break only if Scotland score a try!

We have loads of good back row players, we are short of centres. could Vernon with his speed be converted to centre?

NO!!!!!!