Has Haye got the power to KO Vitali?

On this forum and various others it is quite common to meet people who think Haye is highly likely to beat Wlad and Vitali. Whilst I don't personally think Haye will beat Wlad (I hope he does being English), I can understand the reasoning behind those who think Haye's power and speed will be too much for a fighter who has lost by KO 3 times in his career. I think Wlad has vastly improved since his last ko nearly 7 years ago, and has faced bigger punchers than the guys who ko'd him (bar from perhaps Sanders) since. However, whilst anything is possible in the heavyweight division, I cannot see the logic in Haye beating Vitali. The most common factor used seems to be Vitali's age, but he does not seem to have any stamina issues and someone on here has previously pointed out his fight against Johnson saw a new record for most punches thrown by a fighter in a hw bout (I agree Johnson was not punching back!). He looked as fresh in the 12th round as in the 1st. Can the same be said for Haye in bouts where he has been pushed to the late rounds? People may suggest that he could do the same as he did agaisnt Valuev, but that for me would lead to a UD loss or more likely a KO. Comparing Valuev and Vitali is like comparing Clottey and Pacquaio! Much is also made of Haye 'wobbling' the giant - for me he was caught more off balance and in shock at actually being hit after 12 rounds. Vitali has never been put down, and has taken Lennox Lewis's biggest shots - I don't think a 16 stone Hayemaker will suddenly be the Vitali breaker. Others have stated Vitali will be stopped on cuts. Yeh, Lewis did a good job at opening up his face, but how many others have managed it? The cuts were also as a result of Lewis standing and trading for a couple of rounds with Vitali - do you think Haye would still be standing if he traded with Vitali on that scale? - not me! Add to the fact that Vitali has not lost a round since the Lewis fight and there is no logical reason for picking a Haye win.
That said, lets hope Haye can defy all the odds and beat both Wlad and Vitali - against all the odds.

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Don't think you can dismiss Haye rocking Valuev because of balance, his legs went plain and simple that doesn't happen because of poor balance.

Yeh, but Haye is meant to be this awesome finisher - would he not have finished Valuev if his legs had 'gone'? I know it was the 12th round but Haye must have thought he was going to lose a decision against the champ in Germany, given thats he's a boxing student who knows plenty about the game (he must have been aware of Valuevs previous wins against Ruiz, Holyfied etc where they did the same as Haye + Sven Ottke etc). Valuev recovered immedaitely and didn't look in any trouble after that shot - given it looked awkward and funny! Have you ever seen and elephant trip / stumble - looks something similar!

No Valuevs legs went plain and simple, he recuperated quickly and Haye did go for the finish but that doesn't change the fact that Valuev was on queer street

People seem to ignore the fact that Haye was fighting for nine rounds with a broken hand. Maybe it's just me who found my own experience of it painful and everyone else manages to punch someone repeatedly without any ill effects but Haye decided that as it was the last round he may as well take the risk.

As for Vitali, to my knowledge, no-one has ever targetted his body and given his advancing years I would have thought those energy sapping shots would be the way to go. To be honest, I think the same about Wlad, why not try breaking him up to the body, bring the hands down and target that chin?

It's hard to say.

Haye DID rock valuev, it was nothing to do with balance, he caught him clean and had him hurt.

In boxing it's not neccessarily the power of the punches, it's the ones you don't see coming that really do the damage as you can't brace yourself. From that perspective there is scope to say haye could hurt vitali as he'll be the fastest fighter vitali will have faced and he does pack a punch.

Personally I see haye beating wlad for the above stated reason, but wlad is a bit fragile IMO whereas vitali is highly durable with a granite chin (the uppercut Lewis nailed him with in the 6th wouldve dropped most heavies). I'd back vitali to outlast and wear haye down, I think haye would struggle to put a dent in him to be honest. Haye beats wlad by ko for me, but loses late on or by decision to vitali.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:In boxing it's not neccessarily the power of the punches, it's the ones you don't see coming that really do the damage as you can't brace yourself. From that perspective there is scope to say haye could hurt vitali as he'll be the fastest fighter vitali will have faced and he does pack a punch.

Great point, Sugar Boy.

Willard was regarded as being impossible to hurt when he defended against Dempsey and he, too, had never been down. It was Dempsey's speed which was his undoing. First, Jack caught him a beauty just over the heart, and then sent him sprawling with one to the jaw for the first knockdown.

Haye probably doesn't hit as hard as Dempsey, but your point still stands, in my opinion.

Power, in short, is strength x speed - I see David Haye as one of the most powerful heavyweights I've seen in recent years, solely on power he's similar to a young Mike Tyson.

So for that, I'd say yes, if anyone can KO Vitali, Haye can.

I think Haye rocking Valuev was legit but more down to the big man being exhausted after plodding around after Haye for 12 rounds. HE was visibly pretty tired and you could see the corner masaging his legs in between rounds to get some energy into them.

However Haye does have power. With Vitalis chin and history of being able to withstand punishment then I think a single punch KO is highly unlikely. But if he can outspeed him and get to him often then cumulative shots can add up and a TKO, corner or ref stoppage is a possibility. I cant see it being a case of Haye landing one shot to KO Vitali though unless age has jut caught up with him. The uppercu he takes off Lewis in the 2nd/3rd round of their fight is one of the biggest shots I have ever seen someone take without being wobbled or sent down for a count.

However if Haye catches him with a big shot with Vitali off gaurd and defenceless then hes capable of unleashing a barrage that could either force a ref stoppage or send Vitali down after a series of unanswered blows.

Interesting you mention his corner massaging his legs, doing such a thing would do the complete opposite of putting energy into them, it drains energy from your muscles massaging.

imperialghosty wrote:Interesting you mention his corner massaging his legs, doing such a thing would do the complete opposite of putting energy into them, it drains energy from your muscles massaging.

I thought rubbing them or slapping them would be trying to get the circulation going in them and warm them up?

GeoffSnapes wrote:Yeh, but Haye is meant to be this awesome finisher - would he not have finished Valuev if his legs had 'gone'? I know it was the 12th round but Haye must have thought he was going to lose a decision against the champ in Germany, given thats he's a boxing student who knows plenty about the game (he must have been aware of Valuevs previous wins against Ruiz, Holyfied etc where they did the same as Haye + Sven Ottke etc). Valuev recovered immedaitely and didn't look in any trouble after that shot - given it looked awkward and funny! Have you ever seen and elephant trip / stumble - looks something similar!

Respect to Haye. He rocked him. He couldn't finish him due probably to his right hand being broken during the fight.

Barring a cuts stoppage, I can't see Haye ever putting Vitali away inside the distance. First off, while he's carried his power up fairly nicely to Heavyweight, Haye doesn't seem to have genuine, devastating one-punch knockout power anywhere above 200 lb. Next, as we've seen already, Vitali's chin is just about as good as it gets for a Heavyweight. And finally, I doubt that Haye would be fighting aggressively enough to put himself in a position where he could stop Vitali. I reckon, against the older brother, Haye would fight a cagey fight, trying to stick and move, and quickly nip inside and back out of the forty year old's jab. He might go all out against Wladimir, but I don't see him doing the same against Vitali.

Anyone who seriously thinks haye was anywhere close to losing to valuev needs to listen to this analysis. By the way this guy hates haye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXBB3i_qPpc&feature=fvsr

Yes but he will need to hit more than once. I don't think he will stop Vitali but could have him trouble a few times.

you mention that wlad has much improved but its still to be seen whether his punch resistance has. what has improved is his defence and he is much harder to hit but then again he's hardly been fighting atg!! and none who have the speed and power of haye.

vitali like you say is a total different kettle of fish and have said before that i think hayes game plan would be totally different to his against wlads. i personally think it would be suicide to go have a "war" against vitali and due to his age and his speed slowing i think haye will try to pick vitali off.

which adversly effects the question can he ko him? fighting a gameplan lke that its very unlikely but late stoppage could be on the cards. punch reseistance is known to reduce when getting older added to that you slow down and become easier to hit. can he one punch ko vitali? i think its a possibility if he flies in but i think the chance that vitalis knocks him out is alot more likely.

I actually think he's more likely to beat Vitali, because Vitali seems so confident in his chin and it doesn't matter how tough he is, repeated hayemakers at heavyweight will take him out.

Wlad will never let the oppurtunity for Haye to get to him to arise.

i think haye has talked himself up to a point where people think of him along ali lines...... talking and actually doing are differnt things

he would be KO'd against vitali and i recon he will probably end up on his back against wlad.....

and beleive it or not i actually want hayes to win and am a fan

Who thinks of him alongside Ali?

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Who thinks of him alongside Ali?

Other than possibly david haye himself i cant think of anyone

and Adam Booth!

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why is it whenever someone starts with ...

I'm a fan of <insert fighter>...

or mentions them in in a paragraph you know there going to rip him to pieces!!!! lol

i think a hayes has managed to convince a lot of people he's without doubt the best heavyweight in the world and that wlad is running scared, etc etc.... i don't think he's proven himself yet (although i really hope he does)

the reason everybody says im a fan but..... is because when the best fighters in the world mess around like hayes/wlad have and fans get frustrated and annoyed- im sure if hayes beats both the brothers and we have a unified british champion then he will be a hero and compared on par with the best boxers of all time

Eddy you know his name is 'Haye', not 'Hayes', right? How much of a fan are you?

i actually hadn't realised that lol, and i did consider myself a big fan until now. he is british isn't he?

I believe so, yes.

haha

The Welsh fans need to move on from the fact that Haye destroyed Macca. Until they do that, they'll always hate Haye with a passion.

does anyone else think solis seems to have taken a back seat since wlad/vitali haye has been arranged. i think SOLIS definetly has the power to KO vialti and he seems to have been forgotten about slightly, for me he is vitalis best oppent in a long while

all i can say is i hope haye can k.o. him

hitmansam wrote:The Welsh fans need to move on from the fact that Haye destroyed Macca. Until they do that, they'll always hate Haye with a passion.

I dont hate Haye, i just dislike his attitude. him beating Macc has no bearing. I think everyone knew Macc is no world beater, but he was a good fighter who seems to have no confidence left.

Good Question!

I've seen Vitali take a few vicious shots and still stand. But I only time I've seen him actual wobble was against Sanders in the first round. I would compare Sanders power to Haye due to the speed of his punches. I don’t think he would be able to KO him clean I do think he would go down from an accumulation of Hayes punches.

Quite possible; although he does have an excellent chin.

He is getting easier to hit as he gits older too.

http://www.boxingscene.com/photos-klitschko-solis-go-face-face-final-presser--36983

Looks like Vitali has copped a shiner in training!

I think Haye's only chance of stopping Vitali would be to catch him cold in the first round, then follow up with unanswered punches and get a TKO stoppage.

Haye has to jump straight on VK.

VK is a slow stater. Sanders, Solis, Hide etc all had some success in the 1st. When Vitali warms up and gets into a rhythm he's a hard Bar Steward (am I allowed mild swearing on here?).

I think Haye has the power and the speed of punch to hurt and Ko any Heavyweight out there. Its a shame he damaged his hand early on against Valuev as would have been interesting to see him test Valuevs chin more.

Vitali is a really tough fighter and his chin has never been indoubt but his legs are getting older and I believe Haye can stop him. Haye doesn't throw enough punches to outscore him, so has to at somepoint look for the KO.

WelshDevilRob wrote:I think Haye has the power and the speed of punch to hurt and Ko any Heavyweight out there. Its a shame he damaged his hand early on against Valuev as would have been interesting to see him test Valuevs chin more.

Vitali is a really tough fighter and his chin has never been indoubt but his legs are getting older and I believe Haye can stop him. Haye doesn't throw enough punches to outscore him, so has to at somepoint look for the KO.

Good point and I tend to agree. Haye has to be busy seeing as as the bout will be in germany he has to get a KO to get a draw.

azania wrote:

WelshDevilRob wrote:I think Haye has the power and the speed of punch to hurt and Ko any Heavyweight out there. Its a shame he damaged his hand early on against Valuev as would have been interesting to see him test Valuevs chin more.

Vitali is a really tough fighter and his chin has never been indoubt but his legs are getting older and I believe Haye can stop him. Haye doesn't throw enough punches to outscore him, so has to at somepoint look for the KO.

Good point and I tend to agree. Haye has to be busy seeing as as the bout will be in germany he has to get a KO to get a draw.

He didn't KO Valuev and it's arguable that he won 7 rounds, yet still get the nod.

wow_junky wrote:

azania wrote:

WelshDevilRob wrote:I think Haye has the power and the speed of punch to hurt and Ko any Heavyweight out there. Its a shame he damaged his hand early on against Valuev as would have been interesting to see him test Valuevs chin more.

Vitali is a really tough fighter and his chin has never been indoubt but his legs are getting older and I believe Haye can stop him. Haye doesn't throw enough punches to outscore him, so has to at somepoint look for the KO.

Good point and I tend to agree. Haye has to be busy seeing as as the bout will be in germany he has to get a KO to get a draw.

He didn't KO Valuev and it's arguable that he won 7 rounds, yet still get the nod.

Valuev wasn't regarded in the same way as the Klitchko's in Germany. Haye has little chance of getting the nod over their. I think Haye has got the power to KO Wlad which imo will happen.

GeoffSnapes wrote:That said, lets hope Haye can defy all the odds and beat both Wlad and Vitali - against all the odds.

~ Why Mr. Snapes, sir, best to pray that Mr. Haye doesn't die from a fright before your fairie tale comes true.

The poor soft lad has never knocked out a single Ring contender since announcing he was moving to the heavy division to "unify," which presumably meant searching for and finding his sole remaining gonad that has retreated to dark recesses.

Indeed, against the sole Ring contender he faced, he ran a record setting 5K distance in pipsqueaking a disputed decision over a creaking giant in need of multiple surgeries that he is still in recovery from.

I recommend hoping in one hand and spitting in the other for best observable results.

if a fat lewis coulnt do it haye cant

KO-KING wrote:if a fat lewis coulnt do it haye cant

Who knows what Vit's punch resistance is like as he gets older?

No-one really how good Vit and Wlad are and what it would take to beat them when was the last time they were pushed all the way.

prettyboy1304 wrote:No-one really how good Vit and Wlad are and what it would take to beat them when was the last time they were pushed all the way.

Very true. Vit has only really lost once and that was via his eys being shredded. His other loss was due to a shoulder injury. He has always been ahead in all his fights. But I have always thought that his style could be exposed by someone with speed. That's why I will take Haye over him.

Haye hasn't really been tested at HW either though. Valuev was big slow and very poor. Ruiz was never that good and he was shot when Haye beat him and Fraudley well words couldn't do that justice. I think Haye might do it but it's a hard 1 to pick. Think it would be great for boxing if he took both out.

prettyboy1304 wrote:Haye hasn't really been tested at HW either though. Valuev was big slow and very poor. Ruiz was never that good and he was shot when Haye beat him and Fraudley well words couldn't do that justice. I think Haye might do it but it's a hard 1 to pick. Think it would be great for boxing if he took both out.

Agreed that Haye has not been tested at HW. But he has the style imo to cause serious problems especially to Vit who is the slower of the two. If Haye beats Wlad (doubtful imo) then taking on an older and slower Vit means it will be more winnable.

I think he has the beating of Wlad. Wlad is a bit chinny for me and Haye can punch. The hit and run tactics used against Valuev would work a treat but go for the body a bit more. Frustate Wlad and make him come after him then hit him with some big shots late on for a stoppage.

prettyboy1304 wrote:I think he has the beating of Wlad. Wlad is a bit chinny for me and Haye can punch. The hit and run tactics used against Valuev would work a treat but go for the body a bit more. Frustate Wlad and make him come after him then hit him with some big shots late on for a stoppage.

Haye is not exactly Hagleresque in the chin department either. And Wlad is no slouch like his brother. He also has better boxing skills with faster hands and a much better jab. If Haye uses the same tactics (but busier) he used against Valuev, he will lose and lose badly. There's no way Haye will win on points as the fight will be in Germany. Its KO or bust and that is high risk.

I see Wlad by KO as he keeps Haye guessing at the end of his jab before Haye gasses.

Haye needs to frustrate Wlad and make him come looking for him. Wlad is chinny and if Haye can get him out his stride and make him hunt him down I think Haye could get a KO