Leinster vs Glasgow RDS Sunday 12:45

First topic message reminder :

Right lads,

Second weekend of HCup action is here, first home game in this years competition for Leinster.
Glasgow did well to beat Bath at home but conceeded a losing bonus point while Leinster managed to earn a draw in the south of France. Neither team performed amazingly by all accounts but there is a lot riding on this game all of a sudden, a loss for Leinster and they could find themselves in huge trouble considering as the competition goes on Montpellier may show less and less interest in winning games in Europe.

LEINSTER TEAM ANNOUNCED

15: Rob Kearney
14: Isa Nacewa
13: Eoin O'Malley
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Sean Cronin
3: Mike Ross
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Sean O'Brien
8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Richardt Strauss
17: Cian Healy
18: Nathan White
19: Rhys Ruddock
20: Shane Jennings
21: Isaac Boss
22: Ian Madigan
23: Fionn Carr


GLASGOW TEAM ANNOUNCED

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Tommy Seymour
13 Peter Murchie
12 Graeme Morrison
11 Colin Shaw
10 Duncan Weir
9 Chris Cusiter
1 Ryan Grant
2 Pat MacArthur
3 Mike Cusack
4 Richie Gray
5 Al Kellock (Captain)
6 Rob Harley
7 John Barclay
8 Ryan Wilson

SUBSTITUTES

16 Finlay Gillies
17 Jon Welsh
18 Ed Kalman
19 Tom Ryder
20 Henry Pyrgos
21 Chris Fusaro
22 Federico Aramburu
23 Troy Nathan

Who is gonna win this one?
Do Glasgow have the talent to beat the European Champions?
Are Leinster enough of an attacking threat without BOD and with nacewa on the wing?

Thoughts on the score, the teams, anything at all is very welcome.

Also please do vote!
Wasn't arsed doing draws with bonus points and LBP and 4try bonus point results! Sorry!

Leinster with the ball in hand were nothing short of superb. Glasgow fronted up far better in the 2nd half but by then the game was over.

Best game I have seen heaslip play for some time.

Heaslip had his best game in years Radge. It's a great response to the slagging he's been getting on here recently. Cracking showing.

His Movember is coming on nicely.

red_stag wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Also I want to see O'Malley at 12

Can't understand this. Every time I've seen O'Malley he has played at 13 and played well. Why would you move him to a place where there is more competition and he hasn't played.

I don't get peoples love of switching peoples positions around.

Hang on stag - you do realise you wanted TOL to try playing inside centre the other day and argued with me when I said that was silly. And you say you don't get why people want to switch positions around

I think moving from 13 to 12 isn't rocket science, they are both centre positions. The reason I would love to see him there is because I think his skill set may be better suited there, and I would love to see him alongside Fitz at 13 (where I think his best position is also). I just think O'Malley could leapfrog McFadden as the next good 12 we have. He reminds me a bit of D'Arcy and BOD in his younger days with his exceptional dancing shoes.

EDIT: You also mention more competition. For the future, Ireland have these options at 12: McFadden, possibly Spence. That's about it. At 13 Ireland have: Cave, Spence, Griffin, O'Malley, Fitzgerald, Barnes, Earls. Not to mention the fact BOD hasn't retired yet.

Thats true Rory - to be fair the reason I called for it was that we have no options there. We have Mafi and . . . . . .

However Leinster have nobody at 13 and have McFadden and Darcy at 12.

I think O'Malley is playing excellent at 13, lets leave him there and forget about Ireland - he needs to show it for Leinster.

That's the point though isn't it stag? Ulster have Wallace atm and then Marshall who will probably take a few more years yet. Munster have Mafi. Connacht.. who is their usual 12? And as for Leinster, they have the current 12s. But D'Arcy will retire around the same time as BOD, and McFadden hasn't proved too much yet for me. I just prefer O'Malley and would love an exciting 12 (not McFadden).

My take on it is that any team should have 4 centres, two 12s and two 13s

Munster: Lifeimi Mafi, Danny Barnes, Will Chambers (3 month contract) - they are missing centres and need to try a few new things. O'Leary and Keatley are two people I would like to see play in a Pro 12 match at inside centre. We need options there.

Ulster: Paddy Wallace, Luke Marshall, Nevin Spence, Darren Cave - no problems

Leinster: Gordon Darcy, Fergus McFadden, Brian O'Driscoll, Eoin O'Malley - BOD is injured and his relpacement O'Malley is doing well. Why move him to 12 when both the options there are fit

Connacht: Keith Matthews, Dave McSharry, Eoin Griffin, Henry Fa'afili - no probs

McFadden and even D'Arcy can play 13 however - at one point D'Arcy was playing 13 with BOD at 12 I am pretty sure. I just think O'Malley is in the same mould as the young D'Arcy/BOD type player, and I would love to see him play alongside the likes of Spence in the future, and with Fitz for Leinster now.

10) Sexton
12) O'Malley
13) Fitzgerald

I love the look of that backline, and it could potentially be one for Ireland in the future.

red_stag wrote:Thats true Rory - to be fair the reason I called for it was that we have no options there. We have Mafi and . . . . . .

However Leinster have nobody at 13 and have McFadden and Darcy at 12.

I think O'Malley is playing excellent at 13, lets leave him there and forget about Ireland - he needs to show it for Leinster.

+1

As continuously stated, the boy is a natural 13. He should hold it for Leinster now and be let grow in to it.
Why upset that, for the sake of fitting into an overall Irish pattern that may never happen?

McFadden has two obstacles in his way for IC. Darcy. And himself. He has the talent. Just needs a run.

Madigan looked really sharp when he came on. That boy could be as good, if not better, than Johnny, in time. Oh yes.

The Leinster Way bears more rich fruit.

The way McFadden has been playing recently would have made him a perfect 12 to play along side O'Malley.

10 - Sexton
12 - McFadden
13 - O'Malley

If Darcy took a knock that's a midfield that could handle HC rugby no problem.

Can't say I'm a McFadden fan. He's been on the scene quite a while (I think he's about 26 isn't he?) and has yet to deliver on this promise that we hear he has.

His biggest achievement to date appear to be a few cameo roles at 13, 12 and winger when others have been injured and this perceived versatility has served him with Ireland.

Has he ever played a Heineken Cup match at 12? Where does all the hype come from?

There’s no hype coming from me Stag, last week I saw him put in a decent crash ball 12 performance, but while playing at 13. Darcy hasn’t been able to offer that for some time, so I think a combination of McFadden and O’Malley would be a more balanced one.

He has played at 12 in the HC (i'm pretty sure) but he hasn't started there.

Not from you per say Mick but I hear Leinster talking all the time about how Darcy should be dropped for him or Irish fans/pundits saying how Ireland should play him at 12 in the Six Nations.

To me O'Malley has shown more than McFadden has. I remember he turned in a very good performance nearly 3 years ago in a Churchill Cup game. Apart from that its all been hype IMO.

I wasn't particularly impressed with either D'arcy or O'Malley actually.

D'arcy had a mixed bag. Scored a nice try and set up another for O'Malley but generally he and O'Malley struggled to get to grips with Glasgow's midfield physically. O'Malley took his tries well but there were very little linebreaks or creativity there.

It's actually sad to watch D'arcy these days. He was such and awesome player in his pomp but now he just looks slow and predicatable. At least twice he ran into Gray and was driven backwards. I still think he's better than McFadden though.

It was a funny performance by Leinster because they won comfortably but they didn't actually look dominant and seemed to struggle physically against Glasgow at times. They seemed to get away with being offside at the rucks a lot too.

They were extremely clinical though and their offloading and attacking is just light years ahead of the other Irish teams. Everyone is so comfortable with the ball its just magic at times. Not a lot of pace and power but clever footballers everywhere.

Heaslip had a storming game. O'Brien did well as did Jennings when he came on. Thought Cullen had a good game too.

In the backs Fitzgerald stood out again and Carr looked good when he came on. Nacewa has much less influence on the wing but Kearney is playing pretty well.

When BOD and Horgan return Leinster will have some serious depth. They need to improve but they look like serious contenders to win the trophy again this season.

Well he needs to play at 12 for Leinster before he plays there for Ireland, that’s for sure.
I can see the reasoning behind people wanting him to start ahead of Darcy. But I suppose when you have the most capped center combination in international rugby history playing together at club level and one of them gets injured it makes sense to keep the other one on the team.

roddersm wrote:At least twice he ran into Gray and was driven backwards. I still think he's better than McFadden though.

At but to be fair Gray is nearly 7 foot tall and weighs over 20 stone. He is a foot taller than Darcy and is nearly 6 stone heavier.

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:At least twice he ran into Gray and was driven backwards. I still think he's better than McFadden though.

At but to be fair Gray is nearly 7 foot tall and weighs over 20 stone. He is a foot taller than Darcy and is nearly 6 stone heavier.

He shouldn't run straight at him then should he!

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:At least twice he ran into Gray and was driven backwards. I still think he's better than McFadden though.

At but to be fair Gray is nearly 7 foot tall and weighs over 20 stone. He is a foot taller than Darcy and is nearly 6 stone heavier.

He shouldn't run straight at him then should he!

That's some good advice Rodders!

“We were caught with our pants down around our ankles,” Lineen said mournfully.

“We got well and truly spanked in that first-half." Gotta love, Lineen, just won't mince his words

Yeah fair play to Lineen, he didn’t try to sugar coat things. He’s a straight talker I’ll give him that.

I just saw the last 5 minutes of the highlights of this one on TV (was at the game), have to say, Jenning’s flick up to Boss for the last try was a touch of class. I’d say Amsterdam’s biggest Leinster fan was creaming himself at the time!

That was Contepomi-esque in its execution. A thing of beauty.

Worrying for Glasgow that they were so badly beaten when Leinster went down to 14 men. I think Glasgow thought they'd have it easier during that period and Leinster re-doubled their efforts.

For Glasgow I thought Gray and Harley were tireless, and Nathan again proved useful when he came on (he must surely start ahead of Murchie or Dewey). Star player for Glasgow though was Stuart Hogg. The odd mistake yes, but he really did look dangerous attacking from the back and he plays without fear.

On the Leinster side where to start. Cullen was a complete pest, Heaslip was absolutely awesome, Sexton missed very little, D'Arcy was quietly effective and Nacewa seems incapable of making bad decisions or failing to execute. Fitzgerald showed good footballing skills and Kearney ran well.

The better side certainly won, no question. Glasgow need to look long and hard at the video tapes, especially the sin bin period.

Allright FES? We just wake up at the same time. Every year. Not bein cochy,roysh. But I've seen it far too often now. Now,we are in danger area. Could so easily lose away to ye lot and Bath.

Beat Montpellier and its all still on man. Its the HC.

That's the plan - beat Montpellier at home (which effectively knocks them out) and demoralise them so they give it away down in France then the world is our oyster. Until you lose a home game, you're not out of it.

What we really need is for Leinster to smash Bath twice, giving them nothing, so Glasgow have a run at second place with both Bath (because they'll be out) and Leinster (because they'll be through) having nothing to play for when we next face them.

It'll all come true.

Some highlights if anyone's interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Q1RmiPHn0

red_stag wrote:Can't say I'm a McFadden fan. He's been on the scene quite a while (I think he's about 26 isn't he?) and has yet to deliver on this promise that we hear he has.

His biggest achievement to date appear to be a few cameo roles at 13, 12 and winger when others have been injured and this perceived versatility has served him with Ireland.

Has he ever played a Heineken Cup match at 12? Where does all the hype come from?

He has kept at Leinster all this time trying to break into the team. He was cover for 10 behind Felipe and Sexton (Madigan took over this role), then cover for both the centres (then O'Malley has become almost the automatic cover for BOD at 13), then cover for wing when we had a truck load of injuries. He never shows up as an obvious weak link when he is put into any position, and other than the 13 where BOD is, there has been a long argument as to whether the incumbent should return to the position. I think his Churchill cup had a mix of 10 and 12 work. To be honest, a move to Munster would give him a run at taking the 12 jersey from Mafi, improve the IQ contingent, provide cover to a load of other positions and improve his chance at an Irish jersey in the medium term. Unlikely as he is primary cover for the majority of the Leinster backline, but with an Irish hat on I'd prefer him playing for Munster than on a bench at Leinster.

Mickado wrote:Some highlights if anyone's interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Q1RmiPHn0

Typical feicing Leinster, couldn't even be bothered to show the Glasgow try!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Mickado wrote:Some highlights if anyone's interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Q1RmiPHn0

Typical feicing Leinster, couldn't even be bothered to show the Glasgow try!

There was a Glasgow try?!

Think you must have gone for a smoke in that nanosecond, Mick?!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Think you must have gone for a smoke in that nanosecond, Mick?!

I actually stood and applauded it. I was in the south stand (behind the goal) so got my money’s worth – 5 tries scored under my nose.

I think Fitz and McFadden are far more suited to 12 than O'Malley.

There was a shot at one point of Sexton-Fitzgerald-O'Malley lining up behind a scrum at one point and my mouth began to water.

One has to give it to Fitz he has really started to bounce back, he has finally started to use his head a bit more. Shows great feet for a 12 and has the defence sorted. His hands and passing would need to improve but he has got a lot of game time there this season so far.

O'Malley isn't physical enough for a 12 in defensively and really comes into his own in the wider channels due to his feet and acceleration. He also picks very good lines, try in HCup last year and the 2nd one last week, being two examples. His tackling style is to go low and a 12 has to be able to deal with making tackles standing up.

Fitz is a brilliant player. The contrast between how people view him v McFadden is baffling .

Fitz is certainly getting back to some good form. But I can’t say I like him at 12. I saw when Carr came on he did move inside and he did well. But he works better in a bit of open space. If Darcy took a knock I’d prefer McFadden at 12 (look at his last 2 games, he is playing as a decent crash ball merchant) with O’Malley feeding off him at 13.

red_stag wrote:My take on it is that any team should have 4 centres, two 12s and two 13s

Wouldn't the opposition complain

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think Fitz and McFadden are far more suited to 12 than O'Malley.

There was a shot at one point of Sexton-Fitzgerald-O'Malley lining up behind a scrum at one point and my mouth began to water.

One has to give it to Fitz he has really started to bounce back, he has finally started to use his head a bit more. Shows great feet for a 12 and has the defence sorted. His hands and passing would need to improve but he has got a lot of game time there this season so far.

O'Malley isn't physical enough for a 12 in defensively and really comes into his own in the wider channels due to his feet and acceleration. He also picks very good lines, try in HCup last year and the 2nd one last week, being two examples. His tackling style is to go low and a 12 has to be able to deal with making tackles standing up.

Agree about McFadden to an extent (O'Malley hasn't been tested at 12 anyway so we wouldn't know) but I disagree about Fitz. I think the best position for Fitzgerald right now is 13, where he has the pace, strength and the skills to tear defences apart, and I would love to see him get a run out for both Leinster and Ireland here while BOD is away. I think at 12 he is wasted somewhat.

As for O'Malley, to me he looks a fantastic prospect, as I said previously he reminds me of a young D'Arcy/BOD combined. Defensively he seems sound, but hasn't been tested in the way you say in making the up front tackles. The reason I think he would be good at 12 is that, like D'Arcy in the old days, he seems very good at staying on his feet for his size, and has fantastic feet to make ground and scatter the defence. I think he is fantastic at creating space, more than needing space to play in, to open up the outside backs. Fitz I think is better with space like an outside back.

Obviously he is a 13 now and should probably stay there atm with D'Arcy and McFadden around, but for the future I feel he could make a fantastic 12. I just don't see much of McFadden, and as Rodders says it baffles me that people rate McFadden over Fitzgerald (and amazingly Fitz is the younger of the two).

I don't think Ireland want a crash ball centre.. we want a centre who can make ground yes, and break the gain line, but a simple crash ball centre is useless to me, unless they are very good at it (Roberts). McFadden needs to show more than what he has so far, for me at least.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think Fitz and McFadden are far more suited to 12 than O'Malley.

There was a shot at one point of Sexton-Fitzgerald-O'Malley lining up behind a scrum at one point and my mouth began to water.

One has to give it to Fitz he has really started to bounce back, he has finally started to use his head a bit more. Shows great feet for a 12 and has the defence sorted. His hands and passing would need to improve but he has got a lot of game time there this season so far.

O'Malley isn't physical enough for a 12 in defensively and really comes into his own in the wider channels due to his feet and acceleration. He also picks very good lines, try in HCup last year and the 2nd one last week, being two examples. His tackling style is to go low and a 12 has to be able to deal with making tackles standing up.

Agree about McFadden to an extent (O'Malley hasn't been tested at 12 anyway so we wouldn't know) but I disagree about Fitz. I think the best position for Fitzgerald right now is 13, where he has the pace, strength and the skills to tear defences apart, and I would love to see him get a run out for both Leinster and Ireland here while BOD is away. I think at 12 he is wasted somewhat.

As for O'Malley, to me he looks a fantastic prospect, as I said previously he reminds me of a young D'Arcy/BOD combined. Defensively he seems sound, but hasn't been tested in the way you say in making the up front tackles. The reason I think he would be good at 12 is that, like D'Arcy in the old days, he seems very good at staying on his feet for his size, and has fantastic feet to make ground and scatter the defence. I think he is fantastic at creating space, more than needing space to play in, to open up the outside backs. Fitz I think is better with space like an outside back.

Obviously he is a 13 now and should probably stay there atm with D'Arcy and McFadden around, but for the future I feel he could make a fantastic 12. I just don't see much of McFadden, and as Rodders says it baffles me that people rate McFadden over Fitzgerald (and amazingly Fitz is the younger of the two).

O'Malley played 12 with BOD at 13 once, they switched positions for the whole game basically except off opposition lineouts and scrums when BOD played 13.

If you think O'Malley is good at staying up in contact and getting extra metres check out Mcfadden that is his best attribute IMO.

I think Fitz has the defence, feet, angles of running and vision to be a 12 but I'd be worried about distribution and hands.

There was a shot of Sexton-Fitzgerald-O'Malley at the weekend behind a scrum and it struck me how elusive the 3 are and what a good set of strike runners they are but distribution would be an issue I think

No no I do think that is McFadden's best attribute also, but to me it is the only attribute I have been impressed by with McFadden. He doesn't create space for the outside backs in the same way. Though once again McFadden hasn't really had a chance at 12 still, to me he is definitely not a 13.

I think O'Malley looked like a very good distributor also over the weekend. I think it wouldn't be an issue if they were swapped around. I think Fitz will find his primary position at 13, which would be great as he has been thrown around everywhere.

I suppose we don't really know anything now we need to see these guys more in the centres.

Don't really want Darcy involved still though. Just think we have more exciting and physically able players.

When do you think D'Arcy is going to actually be replaced/move on though? McFadden can't budge him.

Well I think he will be rested for the Magners Games and be it McFadden or Fitzgerald who takes the 12 jersey if they can keep up their recent performances he will be replaced, I'd hope before Christmas but I imagine after, if he gets into the 6n squad (and I assume he will) I think he may have issues getting his Leinster jersey back