Same old story

by newballs Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:06 pm

I know it's only the first match but haven't we been here before?

Compare and contrast Andy with Rafa: both play poorly and look less than 100% fit. Rafa grits his teeth and gets by in 3 sets. Andy, on the other hand, goes down somewhat tamely in straight sets.

Sometimes you need to win ugly as Brad Gilbert (remember him?) used to say. Andy's problem time and again it seems is that when he's up for it he's very good. When he's not he's flatter than an opened can of Irn-Bru that's been left outside in the Scottish rain for a couple of weeks.

by break_in_the_fifth Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:08 pm

He used to be able to win ugly when he was at this peak in 2008.

by Josiah Maiestas Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:10 pm

Difference is:

Ferrer's balls are the size of a whale's.

Mardy Fish's balls are the size of garden peas.

by newballs Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:11 pm

JM love the analogy

by barrystar Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:14 pm

It really was movement too - Murray was having to make do with being near enough to the ball to hit it, and not making the very small adjustments to be in perfect position.

Unless he was lucky enough to be able to get good position without having to do too much movement, the result was too many errors and not enough conviction on shots he should have put away. Ferrer is a nightmare opponent for that because as long as you can't duff him up with winners he'll just run all day.

by Josiah Maiestas Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:17 pm

Ferrer is a nightmare opponent for that because as long as you can't duff him up with winners he'll just run all day.

Paella Oil.

by Chydremion Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:18 pm

Agree with JM.

Fish turned from shark to shrimp in less than 5 minutes.

by Tenez Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:20 pm

Murray is very often not 100%.

I remember he was already suffering 2 years ago v Federer in a RR.....but also in many slam matches.

Those legs are too big for him. He seems to have lost contact with their power and can't dose the right impulse to get them moving smoothly.

....if people can figure out what I mean.

by newballs Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:20 pm

Paella oil?

Is that the magic potion Yannick Noah keeps referring to?

by Chazfazzer Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:44 pm

It amuses me how the rest of the top 4 are always falling away with injuries, whilst Federer plods along into his 30s with barely a niggle in sight.

by newballs Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:48 pm

Chazfazzer that's because of his squeaky clean lifestyle.

Notice how Roger had Thierri Henri is his corner yesterday and not that naughty Tiger scoundrel?

by Tenez Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:49 pm

Ferrer is also another one with rare injuries despite his physical game. However he seems to play within himself...unlike the other 3.

by Danny_1982 Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:54 pm

newballs wrote:I know it's only the first match but haven't we been here before?

Compare and contrast Andy with Rafa: both play poorly and look less than 100% fit. Rafa grits his teeth and gets by in 3 sets. Andy, on the other hand, goes down somewhat tamely in straight sets.

Sometimes you need to win ugly as Brad Gilbert (remember him?) used to say. Andy's problem time and again it seems is that when he's up for it he's very good. When he's not he's flatter than an opened can of Irn-Bru that's been left outside in the Scottish rain for a couple of weeks.

Can't really compare a bad stomach with a movement restricting injury, but essentially I agree with you... And I'm a big Murray fan. I've just watched it on sky plus and Murray was a beaten man after the injury. He was kinda moping around... Reminded me of the Warwinka match at the US last season.

Can't see him recovering sufficiently to get through, and when he's not 100% it rarely works out for him. Shame.

by Manojchandra Mon 21 Nov 2011, 6:04 pm

As a Brit, I would like to see Murray win. I did not get to see the match, but what is new about his performance that we did not know already.

by FedsFan Mon 21 Nov 2011, 6:09 pm

Can't really compare a bad stomach with a movement restricting injury, but essentially I agree with you... And I'm a big Murray fan. I've just watched it on sky plus and Murray was a beaten man after the injury. He was kinda moping around... Reminded me of the Warwinka match at the US last season.

Can't see him recovering sufficiently to get through, and when he's not 100% it rarely works out for him. Shame.[/quote]

Murray lead in in both sets. He let his lead slip by as he couldn't back up the breaks of serve with holding his own serve. Same thing that happened to Nadal at the USO final where he allowed 3-0 and 2-0 leads slip by.

Injury or not he really has himself to blame. His attitude in the first set from the first game virtually was not right. Had he been more calm and collected in the first set as he was in the second, things may have been different. Lets not forget he even had a bit of good sportsmanship come his way courtesy of Ferrer when almost at break point. With all that he still couldn't win!

by Danny_1982 Mon 21 Nov 2011, 6:18 pm

Just seen his press conference.... He says he will wait until tomorrow and then decide whether or not to carry on, though his body language suggested that he already knows he won't play. The injury was sustained just after Paris. He looked really upset.

Perhaps my moping comment is a bit harsh, and the injury is worse than first thought.

by Mad for Chelsea Mon 21 Nov 2011, 6:47 pm

he couldn't push off, which hampered both his serve and his returning quite a lot. You could see him wincing every time he hit a serve. And as mentioned, Ferrer is an absolute nightmare to play against when injured, as he gives you nothing. See the AO QF against Nadal for instance. Desperate shame if Murray has to pull out though, but not unexpected on what I saw today Sad

by hawkeye Mon 21 Nov 2011, 6:53 pm

Tenez

Are there any players that don't have "rare" injuries...

Also I agree with you about Murrays legs. He used to be such a skinny thing.

by legendkillar Mon 21 Nov 2011, 6:59 pm

I think even before the 'injury' and I use that term lightly, it was poor from both players. Ferrer making basic errors on points he was in control of and as was Murray. Murray's serving was below poor. It was crap. Ferrer still managed to make a hash of it in the second. Even though Murray was poor, Ferrer still didn't look any better. Murray's BH was poor and wasn't deep enough. I guess what bewildered most was the lack of urgency on Murray's part. He has been there before against Nadal, Berrer, Troicki where he was wounded and still managed to make a fist of those matches and despite losing to Nadal, was successful against Berrer and Troicki.

Question is what can he do now, because I can't see him beating Djokovic or Berdych and Ferrer was his only 'win on paper' I could see.

by FedsFan Mon 21 Nov 2011, 7:29 pm

legendkillar wrote:

Question is what can he do now, because I can't see him beating Djokovic or Berdych and Ferrer was his only 'win on paper' I could see.

Either play on with the injury knowing he has another 4 days left of the 2011 tour, collect his cheque and recuperate over Christmas OR withdraw. I can't understand why he is waiting to make his announcement until tomorrow. Probably hoping if Djokovic loses tonight it might boost his chances if he sticks around. Assuming he does get to the semis, he potentially faces Tsonga, Nadal or Federer. No way is he going to get past the first two on one leg.

by yummymummy Mon 21 Nov 2011, 7:40 pm

A groin injury aint something you can laugh off !

PULL OUT NOW ANDY !!!

by Jeremy_Kyle Mon 21 Nov 2011, 8:18 pm

But why on earth players those days can't lose a match without claiming all sort of injuries.

Borg during a USO final could barely serve due to a thumb injury. He had a pain injection a little before the match, but never really discussed it.

I mean is it that shameful to lose to a player of the caliber of Ferrer number 5 in the world for a player who was until yesterday the number 4? I don't think so .......

by legendkillar Mon 21 Nov 2011, 8:40 pm

FedsFan wrote:
legendkillar wrote:

Question is what can he do now, because I can't see him beating Djokovic or Berdych and Ferrer was his only 'win on paper' I could see.

Either play on with the injury knowing he has another 4 days left of the 2011 tour, collect his cheque and recuperate over Christmas OR withdraw. I can't understand why he is waiting to make his announcement until tomorrow. Probably hoping if Djokovic loses tonight it might boost his chances if he sticks around. Assuming he does get to the semis, he potentially faces Tsonga, Nadal or Federer. No way is he going to get past the first two on one leg.

Well he should pull out. He lost to the weakest player in the group, so really a half fit Murray could not beat Berdych or Djokovic. Even if Berdych defeated Djokovic, can you imagine it Murray v Djokovic for a place in the semi's? Could never see that going Murray's way even if he was fully fit and Novak was still below 100%

I think Andy was caught cold today, and Ferrer's victory should not just be put down to Murray's injury as the reason.

by yummymummy Mon 21 Nov 2011, 8:53 pm

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:But why on earth players those days can't lose a match without claiming all sort of injuries.

Borg during a USO final could barely serve due to a thumb injury. He had a pain injection a little before the match, but never really discussed it.

I mean is it that shameful to lose to a player of the caliber of Ferrer number 5 in the world for a player who was until yesterday the number 4? I don't think so .......

Oh get a grip on reality JK

by yummymummy Mon 21 Nov 2011, 8:54 pm

AND Djoko is losing as well

No doubt due to memory loss rather than injury !

by break_in_the_fifth Mon 21 Nov 2011, 9:01 pm

I'd say it's more that Nadal is better at making his disruptions count Wink

by yummymummy Mon 21 Nov 2011, 9:55 pm

break_in_the_fifth wrote:I'd say it's more that Nadal is better at making his disruptions count

by FedsFan Mon 21 Nov 2011, 10:09 pm

[quote="legendkillar"]

FedsFan wrote:
legendkillar wrote:

Question is what can he do now, because I can't see him beating Djokovic or Berdych and Ferrer was his only 'win on paper' I could see.

I think Andy was caught cold today, and Ferrer's victory should not just be put down to Murray's injury as the reason.

I agree. Ferrer was written off by all the pundits (except Henman!) due to Murray's HC H2H. I think he came into this match thinking even if he is not 100% he can win it. Unfortunately for him, Ferrer kept taking the match to him. I do not know why many people think Ferrer is not a good player considering he is quite consistent and has even made the final of this tournament before beating players like Nadal, Djokovic etc to reach the final.

by legendkillar Mon 21 Nov 2011, 10:20 pm

[quote="FedsFan"]

legendkillar wrote:
FedsFan wrote:
legendkillar wrote:

Question is what can he do now, because I can't see him beating Djokovic or Berdych and Ferrer was his only 'win on paper' I could see.

I think Andy was caught cold today, and Ferrer's victory should not just be put down to Murray's injury as the reason.

I agree. Ferrer was written off by all the pundits (except Henman!) due to Murray's HC H2H. I think he came into this match thinking even if he is not 100% he can win it. Unfortunately for him, Ferrer kept taking the match to him. I do not know why many people think Ferrer is not a good player considering he is quite consistent and has even made the final of this tournament before beating players like Nadal, Djokovic etc to reach the final.

Ferrer is a good player no doubt, but for me he hasn't got that 'shot' that the other players have. He hits the ball far too 'straight' for me liking. His FH up the line is not penetrating enough. His cross court BH is weak. He doesn't get enough depth on it. Having said that when he is in control on his FH he can pull players about left right and centre and could rally all day on the baseline because he is such a good mover across the baseline, but players attack his BH and breaks far too easy. The interesting stat in his head to head with Murray was MUrray's first serve % which was in the 60's and today it wasn't above 50. Tells you that you need to find your first serves against Dave. And also Murray is 50% points won on the second serve this season. Not a stat to associate with a player in the top 3.

by break_in_the_fifth Mon 21 Nov 2011, 10:26 pm

Indeed Ferrer has all the tools required to succeed in todays conditions.

by Tenez Mon 21 Nov 2011, 11:23 pm

Ferrer doesn't stand a chance in the world. He made hard work of a struggling Murray. He is going to be blasted of court by Berdych (if this one can recover mentally from his match) and will be driven to exhaustion by Djoko.

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