2011 – Different expectation levels

England Record (2011): Won 10 Lost 3 (Win 77% of games)

Result:
Team in disarray
Manager pushed out
Huge media outcry
RFU in turmoil
Tindallgate, Dwarfgate, Manugate, Ivegotanicegardengate

Wales Record (2011): Won 9 Lost 6 (Win 60% of games)

Result:
Self proclaimed honorary best team in world
Manager who many wanted sacked hoisted on shoulders and carried through the streets of Cardiff
‘Fittest Team in World’
‘Gains respect of world rugby community’

Just goes to show the different expectation levels in the respective countries I suppose?

I'd say it's more a case of statistics not telling the whole story.

And this one's been done to death already.

Welcome to the board, Toohey. As Kiwi says, it's easy to look at stats in isolation without understanding the context and the history that has led to them - might explain it

More a case of different intoxication levels.

Tindall. 2011 Drank 10 000 litres of beer. 9000 shooters. Lost consciousness 3 times.

Warburton. 2011 A quiet beer after every match. Didn´t lose consciousness. No kisses Down Under.

Sometimes stats do tell the whole story.

My point really was not to make England look good, they clearly aren’t. It’s more to try and understand where all the hype about Wales is coming from? They have had a couple of impressive performances where you can see a lot of potential but the arrogance coming out of the fans on here is unbelievable based on such limited results. We beat them to 3rd place with a second string team held together with Band-Aids.

I sit here as a relative neutral (Live in England and have an English wife so have some bias) and read the press and message boards and the reaction to these two teams is like chalk and cheese despite (in my opinion) there being very little between them?

I suppose what I’m saying is win something, then brag about it.

Toohey the main words are context and performance.

Statistically England have a better record than Wales in 2011. In every other way Wales trump England.

Remember this was a good world cup for Wales. They hadn't reach the world cup semis since 1987. They were playing a good brand of rugby. If Warburton didn't have his minutes of madness there was every chance they could have reached the world cup final.

In the final who knows? Wales might have prevailed. Unlikely but still.

Rugby is also the dominant sport in Wales. They are bound to be passionate.

Passion I can live with and I can understand the excitement around the potential for this team. I suppose what’s annoying is the number of articles on here kicking England while they are down penned by Welsh fans. For want of a better analogy to me it’s like a bloke with a mullet and no teeth taking the pee out of a bald man.

Sorry must have got out of bed the wrong side today. Usually I just use this site for ‘on the sh*tter’ reading but have allowed myself to be riled. Have a good day folks and cheers for the welcomes!

Toohey wrote:Passion I can live with and I can understand the excitement around the potential for this team. I suppose what’s annoying is the number of articles on here kicking England while they are down penned by Welsh fans. For want of a better analogy to me it’s like a bloke with a mullet and no teeth taking the pee out of a bald man.

Sorry must have got out of bed the wrong side today. Usually I just use this site for ‘on the sh*tter’ reading but have allowed myself to be riled. Have a good day folks and cheers for the welcomes!

tbh, it's usually only one or two Welsh 'fans' - the vast majority are a pretty level-headed bunch in my experience (give or take ) and aren't letting their excitement get too far ahead of results. Hopefully you can simply ignore those that you feel are baiting

Toohey just leave them to it.

Welsh rugby didn't have a lot to cheer about in the 90s and early 2000s. The grandslams in 2005 and 2008 and world cup semi in 2011 change this though. Reasons to be optimistic.

Forget the England v Wales antipathy and take a look at the overall picture.
Historically,Head to Head ,and Tournaments won they are BOTH more or less even.
England have more Money,resources,and Players than any in the World.THAT may mean that deserving Players get Fewer Caps because of
Numbers.
England had on paper a difficult Group,BUT were pretty certain to qualify,had a good 6Ns.Reached the Final 2003[winning]and surprisingly 2007.
Expectations were maybe another Final place if they won there Group.
Wales realistically a Semi-Final place was the best they could hope for.
England in the important games scraped thru using the traditional RWC formula.Selecting on reputation instead of on form,and JW failing to kick his Goals proved costly.
Wales were in arguably the most difficult Group of all,Boks were expected to win the group.
BUT on past form,Fiji,Samoa, or Wales could have been runners up in the group.
With better Goal kicking,despite the Red Card Wales COULD have made the Final.
It comes down to Expectations for England a Semi spot was the minimum expected.
For Wales it was the maximum achievable,one made it the other did`nt.

Toohey wrote:

Result:
Self proclaimed honorary best team in world
Manager who many wanted sacked hoisted on shoulders and carried through the streets of Cardiff

link?

Turkster wrote:

Toohey wrote:

Result:
Self proclaimed honorary best team in world
Manager who many wanted sacked hoisted on shoulders and carried through the streets of Cardiff

link? or are you just another English troll?

Turkster, Toohey is Australian, and in this case (despite his terrible taste in beer, Tooheys ) I'd suggest it's poetic licence running. There's been some OK debate through the thread, so please don't take it straight down into another Anglo-Welsh spat.

The history books only show who wins, not how well you played whist losing.

I guess the English book will be slightly larger than the Welsh one, as is always the case!

Kiwireddevil wrote:

Turkster wrote:

Toohey wrote:

Result:
Self proclaimed honorary best team in world
Manager who many wanted sacked hoisted on shoulders and carried through the streets of Cardiff

link? or are you just another English troll?

Turkster, Toohey is Australian, and in this case (despite his terrible taste in beer, Tooheys ) I'd suggest it's poetic licence running. There's been some OK debate through the thread, so please don't take it straight down into another Anglo-Welsh spat.

ok, so I'll just amend it to ask for a link only, getting a bit fed up with the slagging Wales are getting after the world cup

Wales deserve it Kiwi, they were the fittest fastest strongest team there plus they were riding on a wave of good will and momentum until Captain fantastic lost his cool.

If they couldn't win it with all that going in their favour then they probably never will.

Toohey wrote:My point really was not to make England look good, they clearly aren’t. It’s more to try and understand where all the hype about Wales is coming from? They have had a couple of impressive performances where you can see a lot of potential but the arrogance coming out of the fans on here is unbelievable based on such limited results.

Toohey, welcome to 606v2. I hope that in time you'll learn not to assume that all Welshmen are arrogant and delusional based on the posts of a few.

" a bloke with a mullet and no teeth... "

you must be talking of Bruce Doull, aka The Flying Doormat..

LOL!