JWC 2012 - South Africa

IRB have announced the pools and venues for JWC2012 in South Africa from June 4 to June 22. 5 matchdays at 2 venues, with triple headers, so still a pretty congested fixture list.

Pool A: New Zealand, Fiji, Wales and Samoa
Pool B: England, South Africa, Ireland and Italy
Pool C: Australia, France, Argentina and Scotland

http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2060875.html

I thought that Ireland and Wales had decided not to contest JWC after this year's one in Italy, citing player welfare.

I could understand Wales pulling out in regards to player welfare. Especially looking at their pool!

Not sure why Ireland would though.

It's a shame that England have one of the Tri nations. Pool B is certainly the toughest.

I don´t know about Pool B being certainly the toughest. At a Junior level I think it´s the toughest but not much of a difference between B and C. I think that´s a good mix to all of the groups in general. Just imagine if that were an elite RWC.

Would be interesting to have a RWC every four years with the minnows and then every four years in between just with the top 12. Don´t know how that works for working out the quarter finals and semis. Does it go with points?

Pool A: New Zealand, Fiji, Wales and Samoa

Oh ffs we had this pool a couple years ago and we seem to be grouped with NZ EVERY year! Why us?

Practice makes perfect...

We´ll get that 100 against you maybe next year.

I bloody hope not. There should be a few experienced players involved in this tournament so I expect just a 40 odd point loss...

Looking at those groups, you´re not going to be super confident whichever one you find yourself in mate so I wouldn´t worry too much.

The NZ under 20 team is likely to be very different. At the time it was brought up repeatedly in commentary that most of the team were 19/20 and so wouldn't be around the following year. So Wales may fair better as they'll be playing a different group of players.

England had quite a mix so will still have the likes of Ransom and Ford available. Maybe they'll go well again. Tough games against Ireland and SA though England age groups have a good record vs Ireland (shame the first team don't...).

I was partially right about Ireland and Wales withdrawing - it was actually Ireland, Wales and Scotland citing both player welfare and finance, according to the Irish Times.

See this thread

https://www.606v2.com/t7616-mass-u20-jwc-exodus

Player welfare seems to have been satisfied by extending the tournament from 17 days to 18. Wonder what happened to the financial concerns?

Good news anyway, the withdrawal of those three countries would have significantly weakened the depth of the competition.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Looking at those groups, you´re not going to be super confident whichever one you find yourself in mate so I wouldn´t worry too much.

In the past we've thrashed Fiji, Samoa, Ireland, Scotland, France, Argentina and Italy. It's NZ, SA, Aus and Eng that are of concern. I would gladly swap us around with England or Australia.

NZ bring in a vast amount of new and inexperienced players every year, yet still manage to thrash every team and win the competition. So far, everybodies efforts to halt that have been futile. Don't get me wrong, they play with such passion for youngsters, but I still don't see how they can be so far ahead of their rivals.

Well exactly mate and there´s one of those danger teams in every group. True it´s unlucky to be lumped with NZ every time.

I guess in NZ people start right from when they´re very young. But also skills are important. Playing sevens and touch rugby go hand in hand and from these you learn the importance of space and finding out ways to exploit space. I don´t think that´s prevalent in other countries. Forwards have a role to play linking up with other team mates. Many forwards from other countries don´t have that mindset. It´s go forward and through people.

kiakahaaotearoa I am calling Pool B the toughest because it has two of the top 4 teams in junior rugby whereas Australia and NZ should win their pools with little trouble.

Remember England are one of the top seeds so to get the most dangerous 2nd seed - South Africa is unfortunate.

Morgannwg wrote:Pool A: New Zealand, Fiji, Wales and Samoa

Oh ffs we had this pool a couple years ago and we seem to be grouped with NZ EVERY year! Why us?

Why not you.

Gatland wants Wales senior team to play the SH more often...So again why not you.

The Academies are improving all the time. It will be good to see the lads challenged by the best so early on.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Pool A: New Zealand, Fiji, Wales and Samoa

Oh ffs we had this pool a couple years ago and we seem to be grouped with NZ EVERY year! Why us?

Why not you.

Gatland wants Wales senior team to play the SH more often...So again why not you.

maj, you are a nesbit. Your sense of humour is equal to that displayed by a plank of wood. Leave U20 to U20 and senior to Gatland. The WRU has the say, not Gatland.

I think now the Seniors have done their bit the Juniors, like the women and 7's recently (albeit theyve come back) have been allowed to relax and not hold up our game like they used to. So I see a loss on the cards- its overdue anyway...

Beshocked it is a tough draw and the toughest group but then you could be in Wales´position and be against the top seed. I think no matter what group you find yourselves in, it´s a tough ask. Only 3 groups makes escaping a tough team impossible.

That said, target the game against SA (admittedly playing at home which makes it even tougher) and you´re still in with a good shout. You have to start beating the big teams at some stage and the quality England has doesn´t make this an insurmountable task.

Presumably there is a best runners up spot from one group, and I doubt it will be from Group B.

It's a tough draw, but I think this is the best ever England u20 side on paper and I actually expect us to win the tournament this year. We'll see.

DaveM wrote:Presumably there is a best runners up spot from one group, and I doubt it will be from Group B.

It's a tough draw, but I think this is the best ever England u20 side on paper and I actually expect us to win the tournament this year. We'll see.

In the last 3-4 years, England academy sides were good because they were getting regular rugby under tuition by good coaches, usually that which private schools could offer. The majority had also featured in a few games for their clubs in the Premiership. Most of those guys have now gone on to be pro's at their clubs. What is different this year because I don't believe there have been as many getting regular games for their clubs in the premiership?

The current lot are getting more first team experience than any of their predecessors. I'd expect a side like:

Cowan-Dickie (or Ethan Waller)
Spurling
Sinkler
Barrow
Tworney
Kvesic/Nutley
Walker/Kvesic/Nutley (fantastic to have 3 genuine options)
Vunipola
Spencer
Ford/Heathcote
Elliot
Addison
Daly
Yarde
Nowell/Ransom

Obviously the tight 5 aren't regulars yet, but Sinkler is on the bench (and looks like a TH version of Marler to me) and Barrow has played in the Championship. Walker has been first choice for an improving Leeds side, and Nutley and Kvesic have played in the AP and Europe on a fairly regular basis. Vunipola would have played but for injury. Spencer is getting loads of game time for Sarries, Ford played several games and did ok whilst Heathcote has also done well, Elliot and Addison have played regularly, Daly less so but has made it onto the pitch. Yarde was looking superb for LI before he got injured. The fullbacks haven't had much first team experience, but all in all I think this is a side which will have more experience of first team rugby than any of their predecessors.

They should be a good team then. Some of our Sevens players are eligible and would come in handy, but they are contracted so I expect not to see them involved. I wish we would place as much empthasis on acadamies and giving young guys high level experience as much as England did.

Watch out for Scott Spurling quality young English hooker. Learning his trade from the master - Schalk Brits. Scored an excellent try for help for heroes with a Brits esque sidestep. He's quick as well having played sevens for Saracens in the JP Morgan trophy.