4 Fantasy Fights

Burly v Ward (12rds)

Ward v Hagler (12rds)

Ward v Hagler (15rds)

Hagler v Froch (15rds)


Long for the return of fifteen rounders, where the things that old time boxing fans used to cherish come into play - heart and stamina...

Sorry I don't get it. Why Ward? he is good but hardly exciting.

Burley
Hagler
Hagelr
Hagler

Lets not get carried away with Ward. Hagler could do all he does but with more power.

Me VS Ward...

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Sorry I don't get it. Why Ward? he is good but hardly exciting.

Agreed. He's dull as dishwater to watch. But let's hear your verdicts. Not easy to call any of these I think.

Are they at 168?

manos de piedra wrote:Are they at 168?

That's the thing manos. Burly gives weight to Ward; Hagler to Ward and Froch. Think I'd like Marvin to come to super middle for these and bulk up.

I think Ward can do a few things that Hagler can't, but do I have any takers on Hagler Froch? Now that could be one for the ages

froch is in a painful night against hagler for me, hagler better boxer and given froch good chin he's getting hurt alot. imagine froch leaving him self open like he often does especially with that low left hand

Don't see why Hagler is involved Ward is good but I'm not sure I'd consider matching him against a HoF boxer just yet.

Burly
Hagler
Hagler
Hagler.

BallchinianMuffwig wrote:Me VS Ward...

Me VS Ward: BallchinianMuffwig TKO1

Weight disadvantage or no, Hagler tears Froch a new one, metaphorically speaking. Assuming we're talking about them both at their best, I'd say Froch does very well to make it to the final bell against Marvin. He has nowhere near enough power to discourage Hagler, and Marvin's jab and ring generalship were light years ahead of Froch's. Can see Hagler getting Froch out of there by the eighth / ninth round after giving him a bit of a hiding, to be honest.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

BallchinianMuffwig wrote:Me VS Ward...

Me VS Ward: BallchinianMuffwig TKO1

I can hear Jimmy Lennon Jr saying announcing this one right now.

chris...

Don't read anything you say about Froch to be honest, you had Abraham tearing Froch a new one. No one has been able to do it yet, and he's fought the toughest schedule in boxing over the last few years. Put the bonnet down, the bee flies away, deep breath, and if you should care to, would like to hear your appraisal on the other three contests. That I would like to hear.






Would far rather h

Bit of a surprise this one but I think Burley would beat him.

Herman Jaggery wrote:

Would far rather h

From Steps?

Very droll Tino. My phone playing up again.

Isnt chris a mental fan of Froch? Maybe not mental, but he normally chirps up to defend him. I think its a pretty reasonable assessment anyway.

PS Az correctly answered your question in the second post (imo)

joeyjojo618 wrote:Isnt chris a mental fan of Froch? Maybe not mental, but he normally chirps up to defend him. I think its a pretty reasonable assessment anyway.

PS Az correctly answered your question in the second post (imo)

Take it you're a JC fan with that name..


Care to expand on why Az is correct?..

Herman Jaggery wrote:I think Ward can do a few things that Hagler can't, but do I have any takers on Hagler Froch? Now that could be one for the ages

I think Hagler can do all what Ward does in equal measure but with added strength and worse intent.

Burley
Hagler
Hagler
Hagler

None of those fights at all difficult to call, for me.

Fists of Fury wrote:Burley
Hagler
Hagler
Hagler

None of those fights at all difficult to call, for me.

That's fair enough mate. But would appeciate a small appraisal.

I never watched the Simpsons. Does that make me sound like a hillbilly?

Sorry, Herman, on here whilst working so not a lot of time for detailed posts.

Just quickly, then. Burley - I'll let Rowley explain this one to you. Masterful fighter, simply too good.

Agree with Az, Hagler does everything Ward does (maybe a little less speed) but does it better and with more aggression. Far too hard a man to be bullied up close and too relentless for Ward.

Over 15 Hagler stops Ward, he looked uncomfortable in the last couple against Froch, Hagler is much worse a prospect to face in those championship rounds.

Hagler and Froch is a tear up, but Hagler is doing most of the tearing. Too good a chin, and a very powerful man, he stops Froch inside 10.

This is surreal. I have admin, mods and other posters agreeing with me. All I need now is for Ghosty and Coxy to wish me a Merry Xmas to tip me over the edge.

Cheers Fists. Appeciate it.


I'm not ruling out Carl becoming the first man to stop Marv, he easier to find than Ward, but as you know I'm a big Froch fan.

Herman Jaggery wrote:chris...

Don't read anything you say about Froch to be honest, you had Abraham tearing Froch a new one. No one has been able to do it yet, and he's fought the toughest schedule in boxing over the last few years. Put the bonnet down, the bee flies away, deep breath, and if you should care to, would like to hear your appraisal on the other three contests. That I would like to hear.

You seem obsessed with critiquing everything I write. Tell me, how does the fact that I (very) wrongly thought Abraham would beat Froch have any bearing as to how he'd fare against one of the greatest pound for pound fighters of the eighties? The likelihood is that Hagler would beat Froch with something to spare, and to say that Froch has anything other than a very small chance is deluded.

I have no bee in my bonnet about Froch at all - have followed his career closely for as long as I can remember and am a big fan. But as good as his run has been (he's lost to the two best fighters he's faced during that run, lest we forget), there's nothing there to suggest that he has a chance of beating Hagler.

Burley
Hagler
Hagler
Hagler

With the Froch fights being the most entertaining out of all of them.

chris...


There you go, wumming again...


You musnt dismiss people who disagree with you as deluded. You've been sounding like you want to force your opinion on people lately. We all know the agenda you have in doing Froch down.



For the life of me, i can't fully rule out a Froch win by stoppage against Hagler. Whether I am deluded or not, you're just going to have to accept that's heartfelt.


Burly Ward now that's an interesting one. Who can say Burly wouldn't be diffrant class again! I've seen enough boxing though to know this could be a real close affair.

Herman, no need for that, Chris most certainly isn't a wum.

Herman Jaggery wrote:chris...


There you go, wumming again...


You musnt dismiss people who disagree with you as deluded. You've been sounding like you want to force your opinion on people lately. We all know the agenda you have in doing Froch down.



For the life of me, i can't fully rule out a Froch win by stoppage against Hagler. Whether I am deluded or not, you're just going to have to accept that's heartfelt.

Burly Ward now that's an interesting one. Who can say Burly wouldn't be diffrant class again! I've seen enough boxing though to know this could be a real close affair.

You have to be kidding. Hagler has taken punches from harder hitters than Froch and was still standing.

Chris = Ralphy, pure Wum

Accumulation Az. I know he didn't stop lesser men than Hagler, but it's the sheer fever pitched nature of the encounter that makes me think one of them would have to go.


Though logic says it would go to the cards.

rowley wrote:Chris = Ralphy, pure Wum

A bit disappointed with that, Rowley. Was going for more of a D4 kind of style. Obviously need to brush up on my WUM skills.

You shouldn't be disappointed Chris, Ralphy was an all time great, a first ballot Wum Hall of Famer, had forgot more about wumming than D4 will ever know.

88Chris05 wrote:

rowley wrote:Chris = Ralphy, pure Wum

A bit disappointed with that, Rowley. Was going for more of a D4 kind of style. Obviously need to brush up on my WUM skills.

Many a true word..

Herman Jaggery wrote:Accumulation Az. I know he didn't stop lesser men than Hagler, but it's the sheer fever pitched nature of the encounter that makes me think one of them would have to go.


Though logic says it would go to the cards.

If one of them had to go I'd say Froch. I haven't seen hagler even stagger. is sole kd was a slip and incorrectly called by Steele against Roldan. Huge punchers, Hearns, Mugabe, Lee, Briscoe, Watts couldn't dent him. Cant see how froch land more blows also.

azania wrote:

Herman Jaggery wrote:Accumulation Az. I know he didn't stop lesser men than Hagler, but it's the sheer fever pitched nature of the encounter that makes me think one of them would have to go.


Though logic says it would go to the cards.

If one of them had to go I'd say Froch. I haven't seen hagler even stagger. is sole kd was a slip and incorrectly called by Steele against Roldan. Huge punchers, Hearns, Mugabe, Lee, Briscoe, Watts couldn't dent him. Cant see how froch land more blows also.

Not sure Tommy is as devastating at middle as he was at welter, we've only got a sot Barkley to go on at sm(was sm their fight?) Roldan, Mugambe light middles surely? The others middles, but in truth haven't seen any of them in action!


Accept your opinion Az, don't want to get into nitpicking territory.

I think Burley has the kind of style to beat Ward but he would be significantly smaller. There isnt a huge amount of footage of Burley to go on but his style is often compared to a more orthodox version of Jones which is the kind of style that could flummox Ward. Not sure exactly what kind of speed Burley possesses either as I have only seen small amounts of footage. Dont really have an assertive opinion on it but would guess that Burley might have the style to beat Ward but would come down to whether he had the size or speed to apply it.

I think the Ward v Hagler fights would be very close. Size again would be with Ward but in the 15 rounders Hagler would have the advantage and experience against a Ward who has never gon 15 rounds. Would favour Hagler to take the 15 rounder with the 12 rounder capable of going either way but for the sake of it will say a narrow Hagler victory. Assume Hagler could handle the extra poundage but think he would struggle to get get to grips with Ward and alot would depend how he could handle the bigger Ward up front.

Would have to back Hagler to win a decent points wn over Froch who is a level or two down in boxing ability. Chin and durability would keep him in there to the final bell I think but I would see a handy points win for Hagler.

Great stuff as ever manos.


Though the third appraisal is less rounded as the first two, if you'll forgive. You may indeed find this the easiest call. It's the fighting pride of the two fighters though which makes me think that at some point the boxing goes out the window. Did Hagler ever face a brawler with that manic will to win comparable to himself? I don't know the answer to that. I don't know his early career.

rowley wrote:Bit of a surprise this one but I think Burley would beat him.

Really? You Rowley? Backing Burley?

Surely not.

I'm with you though. Preferably at a catchweight mind.

Herman Jaggery wrote:Great stuff as ever manos.


Though the third appraisal is less rounded as the first two, if you'll forgive. You may indeed find this the easiest call. It's the fighting pride of the two fighters though which makes me think that at some point the boxing goes out the window. Did Hagler ever face a brawler with that manic will to win comparable to himself? I don't know the answer to that. I don't know his early career.

Nearer the end of his career he faced a tough, unbeaten Mugabi who was well rated at the time and while it wasnt his finest performance he managed a stoppage win over him. In terms of brawls also you would have to look at his fight with Hearns, who although was less durable than Froch, Hagler still showed he could tear up it up in serious fashion. I actually think both Froch and Hagler are happier to box than they are generally considered. They have reutations as guys who like to brawl but in general I think they prefer to box if given the chance and in this sense I would see Hagler having the superior skillset of the two. They are both strong in the chin department so I think it goes to cards but I see Hagler possessing the better skillset of the two which would see him win a points win in a fight thats probably got more boxing in it than one might expect. Plenty of good exchanges in it and moments of trading but overall Hagler to win.

I tend to associate these two as guys who wont say no to a brawl at times, and who are more than cmfortable in one, but arent really as likely to initiate it. They are more likely to get drawn into one rather than start one.

Herman are you really trying to suggest that Froch out toughs Marvin Hagler? The man was made of pure granite and seemingly could not be hurt, Hearns carried his devastating power up to 175lbs and dropped the very tough and durable Denis Andries at will so would consider him a bigger puncher than Froch. I really like Froch but it's a no contest as Burley against Ward would be too, smaller or not he's light yeards ahead in terms of talent and beat better bigger men than Ward.

I am not suggesting Hagler out toughs Froch, nor am I discounting the possibility. Phrases like 'pure granite' might suggest Hagler's mythical status is influencing your opinion(though I'm not saying that is fact.) Who's to say in twenty years time, people might be using similar phrases about the Cobra? Though would never in a million years dispute Hagler's granite chin and incredible toughness, he never did actually go up to light heavy for a challenge, instead pursuing his obsession with former welterweight king Ry Leonard.


But to suggest Ward has no chance against Burly is fanciful. I don't know the answer to this but was Burly ever as domnant as Ward over a division? Plus Ward is the bigger man, probably by quite a bit. There's just no way it's a no contest to me. Already we can see Ward as the best SM sinceJones, by that criteria, he pushes Burly close for me.

Hagler has no mythical status, it's a nailed on opinion of mine that he is one of if not the most durable fighter i've ever seen, faced various heavy hitters who caught him clean but none of them so much as staggered him let alone hurt him. The big difference between Froch and he is that Hagler beat world class fighters time and time again, he lost a close fight to Leonard which even to this day is disputed but I can't see how Froch troubles him, he simply doesn't have the power.

Ward has thus far had no period of dominance, he's beaten two main divisional rivals but I don't think you could consider 4 world title fights as dominance when they are still fighters in the division to beat. Moore one of the greatest fighters of all time was beaten comfortably by Burley and he was capable of doing everything Ward could do but better with less speed but far more power, you do seem to love bigging up Froch and Ward just to try and discredit Calzaghe.

Burley was never dominant over a division as such Herman - due to the politics of the time freezing him out of a shot. However - wins over a prime Archie Moore, a ranked HW and decent LHWs like Oakland Billy Smith - a guy with wins of Marshall and Chase.

Futch described Burley as the greatest "all round fighter" he ever saw - and Futch saw a lot of fighters.

Burley hits, p4p (and maybe in real terms) harder than Ward. Burley was never stopped (although he was knocked down a few times) but was in with some murderous punchers. Burley's skill level was greater than Ward - in my opinion (and the consensus of many experts).

Ward has the advantage in terms of size - that's it. Hence my request for the fight to be held at a reasonable catchweight - although I wouldn't put it past Burley winning at any weight.

Wouldn't dispute that Imperial Ghost, Hagler would have to be right there with Duran and Chavez for durability off the top of my head. Still wouldn't give Tommy a rematch though would he?


Re Ward and Calzaghe. I just prefer Ward's no iffs no buts dominance already to JC's longevity. No Jones, no Froch, no Hopkns rematch etc. Would be close though, and it's neither here nor there to me if you've got it the other way round.

What dominance? He has yet to clean out the division, as for Jones and Hopkins they have no relevance to Calzaghes reign at super middleweight.

Why would he need to give Hearns a rematch, he knocked him out in 3 rounds, was an exciting fight but there was little to suggest the result would ever change.

oxring wrote:Burley was never dominant over a division as such Herman - due to the politics of the time freezing him out of a shot. However - wins over a prime Archie Moore, a ranked HW and decent LHWs like Oakland Billy Smith - a guy with wins of Marshall and Chase.

Futch described Burley as the greatest "all round fighter" he ever saw - and Futch saw a lot of fighters.

Burley hits, p4p (and maybe in real terms) harder than Ward. Burley was never stopped (although he was knocked down a few times) but was in with some murderous punchers. Burley's skill level was greater than Ward - in my opinion (and the consensus of many experts).

Ward has the advantage in terms of size - that's it. Hence my request for the fight to be held at a reasonable catchweight - although I wouldn't put it past Burley winning at any weight.

Its alot of guesswork in there to be fair. I mean theres about ten minutes of footage of Burley available so its incredibly difficult to say for sure that hes quicker, more skilled etc

There arent going to be a whole lot of experts around that have seen alot of Ward and Burley first hand to draw like for like comparisons.

Of course Ward is better than Burley, how silly of me.