Wasps consider Olympic Stadium as new home.

The (London) Evening Standard has reported Wasps to be interested in becoming joint tenants at the OS in Stratford. While it would be easier to get to than Wycombe, I can't see us picking up too many new fans in that part of London.

Add to that an inevitable lack of atmosphere, with the crowd likely to dwarfed by the stadium itself, and I'm not happy if this move takes place. The only positive for me is it will cost me nothing to get there.

What do fellow Wasps, and others, think of this news?

Not so sure this is a good idea. Stadiums that are too big often lead to really poor atmosphere and don't generate a lot of new support. Wasps do need to look at somewhere new, but I can't see this being the answer.

Surely Wasps have some other options?

It would be a mistake.

Look at the problems with Edinburgh, Ospreys and the Blues playing in large(ish) stadia (compard to their fanbase) with little or no atmosphere. You only have to look at the complaints on here by the fans themselves.

Even getting 15-20k in the stadium wouldn't fill it enough to generate the right atmosphere. What's the capacity going to be, 80k?

You're better off 3/4s filling a smaller ground than 1/4 filling a large one.

I think it's an excellent option, and I've reckoned the right one for Wasps for a couple of years. You don't need to pick up local fans (although for instance places Islington and Docklands which are only 15 minutes away have plenty of rugby fans who never make it to games because there is nowhere convenient) because I think the Olympic Stadium will have the largest one-hour catchment of any stadium in Western Europe. Even High Wycombe station will be only just over an hour from the stadium. 20K a week should be the initial target.

There will also be plenty of places to go for pre or post game drinks either near the stadium or on your way to or from the ground. Add in how attractive this concept will be to owners who want to make a splash and I think this move could save Wasps from oblivion.

Plus, with Saracens hopefully at Copthall, Wasps at the OS, and Quins at the Stoop London will finally have a sensible distribution of AP rugby clubs (and the number will have gone from 1 to 3), leaving LI to hoover up the Thmaes Valley.

I really hope it happens.

I was surprised that the proposed development at Booker airfield was scuppered by Wycombe Council. It was actually a good scheme, but even further out of town.

If there was anywhere suitable in west, or north west London then that would be the favoured location for the London based fans*. Huge parts of the Park Royal industrial estate are practically derelict; it's worth looking at.

* We have picked up a lot of new fans since the move to Wycombe, and I can't see many travelling to east London. I would feel sorry for them if this move happens.

I really quite like the idea too, it would bring the game to a whole new segment of the population as well as being not too bad for travelling support to access

The expression of interest will hopefully be a carrot for new investors & beggars can't be choosers can they?

I can actually see more potential positives than negatives personally.

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:I was surprised that the proposed development at Booker airfield was scuppered by Wycombe Council. It was actually a good scheme, but even further out of town.

If there was anywhere suitable in west, or north west London then that would be the favoured location for the London based fans*. Huge parts of the Park Royal industrial estate are practically derelict; it's worth looking at.

* We have picked up a lot of new fans since the move to Wycombe, and I can't see many travelling to east London. I would feel sorry for them if this move happens.

Good points Hound.
I know the new owner of QPR is looking for a new ground as Loftus Road is too small for Premiership football - he may benefit from a tenant. Although the bigger ground & lack of intimacy would still be an issue for a lot of fans.

BigTrev - I would be more warm to the idea if we could guarantee a decent crowd. I'm sure the facility will be very nice, but it's very much round ball territory over there. It would take a huge marketing effort to get fans in to games.

Still, accessibility to Adams Park is a big problem. It won't be such an issue at Stratford with the tube/rail links.

But from a selfish point of view, the lack of decent in the area would be a disappointment.

Stop off at Canonbury/Highbury and Islington on your way back - plenty of decent pubs there.

The stadium will have reduced capacity post olympics, but it'll still be quite a bit bigger than ideal for a rugby venue. In terms of the track putting distance from the action, it may well be that there is movable seating to fill the void.

In terms of general location however, I think it has potential. As someone else mentioned, plenty of rugby supporters in the Islington and Docklands areas, and with fast direct trains, plus the M11, A12, A13 & A2 leading straight to it, it gives far easier access to rugby supporters in Kent, Essex, even East Anglia. When I used to live in Kent (and there are a lot of rugby people down that way) it was always a bit of a pain having to head over to West or North (of) London to see a club game, multiple train/tube stops getting to/across London, or the weekend entrenched M25 by car.

From memory the stadium capacity would be greatly reduced from 70/80k which it will be at during the Olympics. And I would have thought it would be very easy to access given that it will be the center of London for a couple of months. Could be a really good move!

Wasps are looking at becoming joint tenants at the Olympic stadium? Crazy in my opinion.

Wasps simply would not be able to afford it. They have not got a wealthy backer who could sustain this. Even if the capacity was 40-50k it would still be too big. The upkeep costs would cripple Wasps.

Also it would be ground sharing yet again. Wasps need a stadium they can call their own. Complete control is ideal.

This is without mentioning all the pitfalls/obstacles to overcome. Look at West Ham. They thought they had the Olympic Stadium in the bag. Not a chance!

Also I am pretty sure Premier League sides aren't allowed to share with rugby clubs.

Depending upon what happens after the Olympics, the stadium's capacity will be reduced to either 50,000-60,000 or 25,000 depending upon the planned use. I seem to remember back before the Premiership football fat cats got involved, 25,000 was always the plan, where the upper tiers would be removed.

If you google a picture, the lower tier of the stadium (where the permanent seats currently are) has a capacity of 25,000 which you suspect would be at the top end of what Wasps would want. There was also talk of retractable seating to go over the track (a la Saracens at Copthall) to bring fans closer to the pitch.

To be honest, I don't know a lot about London's rugby population, but I have heard that there are a lot of disenfranchised fans in the South East of the capital. It would be great for English rugby if Wasps could tap that market and become a success again.

However, as Beshocked says there are cost implications involved. Although, I can't find any specific rules preventing Premier league sides sharing grounds with rugby clubs. (it was just a quick search though!)

beshocked wrote:Wasps are looking at becoming joint tenants at the Olympic stadium? Crazy in my opinion.

Wasps simply would not be able to afford it. They have not got a wealthy backer who could sustain this. Even if the capacity was 40-50k it would still be too big. The upkeep costs would cripple Wasps.

Also it would be ground sharing yet again. Wasps need a stadium they can call their own. Complete control is ideal.

Moving to the OS is probably likely to improve the chances of getting a wealthy backer. Having a club based at one of the world's most famous stadiums is probably more attractive than one playing at Adams Park. They wouldn't be the sole tennants and I'm not sure what these vast running costs are supposed to be anyway - it'll be a brand new stadium.

Wasps are not going to get a stadium on their own. To do so you need to find a suitable site in London and then outbid everyone else who might want to use that plot of land. Sarries eventually found Copthall which, if it goes ahead, will certainly be a step up from Vicarage Road but a 10,000 seater stadium in Mill Hill is hardly going to move them on to Leciester or Quins levels of self-sufficiency.

The OS needs to find as much income as possible. WH look to be the only football club interested, but I think there is very likely to be a rugby club too and it sounds like Wasps are the one who have made the move.

I think it could work well. The bottom tier is only 25k, transport and facilities will be excellent and the Wasps brand could do more to bring in fans than most others.

What's the alternative? Struggle on at Adams Park?

Struggling now Poorfour, but the move to Wycombe saw Wasps win 8 tropies in 6 seasons under Gatland and Geech (+ Shaun Edwards).

DaveM - You are right in terms of the stadium attracting a backer. Playing in east London just would not sit right with an awful lot of fans though.

We'll see where this is going soon enough.

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Struggling now Poorfour, but the move to Wycombe saw Wasps win 8 tropies in 6 seasons under Gatland and Geech (+ Shaun Edwards).

DaveM - You are right in terms of the stadium attracting a backer. Playing in east London just would not sit right with an awful lot of fans though.

We'll see where this is going soon enough.

I didn't mean on the pitch. As I understand it, Wasps will never be able to raise a big enough crowd consistently at Adams Park to make it a viable business.

I agree, and Wasps fans know it. We are lagging behind many teams and need a new stadium.

Twixt & between on this one Hound. First thoughts were, the emptiness and coldness of Murrayfield and Edinburgh. And, the half-empty new and smaller Welsh grounds. Moving local fans from Wycombe... Negativity ruled.

Then, I thought, this is WASPS. Twice European Champions, multiple English Champs and provider of a huge amount of English Internationals over the years. A massive catchment area, which dwarfs Leinster's. The possibility of rejuvinating the glory days in London and not outside it (like Exiles) - it needs to be seriously considered.

Leinster used have 500 fans in Donnybrook less than 10 years ago. Now, we fill the RDS with 18,500 and Lansdowne at 50,000 in the HC.

Rugby is a fast-growing business. A 25,000-seater stadium (if reduced), could be filled over time. Tigers manage it, why not Wasps? A Laandahn side, steeped in English and European rugby history.

A massive soccer-ridden cachement area, ready to be awoken to the pure sex of European Rugby. The girlie game is just about ready to combust internally. Its got too fat. It will blow. These times are coming. Check the stats. That' s yer IN.

It would take some serious marketing. But, it could work. It may be a mad dream for forward-thinking, loyal Wasps fans, who have had to travel outside their own City for years to support their team. It really needs serious consideration. A feasibility study at least.

Believe.

It's the "soccer-ridden" bit that's a challenge for all London rugby clubs. I have friends who occasionally come to Quins and say they enjoy it more than the soccer, but I've only converted one of them from a Gooner to a Quin.

It can be done, but it's a gradual process. Having a decent stadium with good public transport links has to be a decent start, but they'll have to work hard at it until the fanbase is big enough to be viable. And it will always be tougher in a stadium you don't own - but I think with the Wycombe plan falling through, this might be their best option short of the really radical (e.g. Moving to the south coast)

Poor,
Points well made sir. Myself and a few others have converted numerous, pure, soccer fans, to enjoy and realise the possibilties of moving sideways.. not over. (I love soccer too). Just move sideways and have a taste. Most of them are now season-ticket holders and rome Europe with their side. It IS possble. Just needs the iron-will. And some serious marketing.

I'd love to see it happen for Wasps. Their tradition alone - deserves it.

DaveM wrote:I think it's an excellent option, and I've reckoned the right one for Wasps for a couple of years. You don't need to pick up local fans (although for instance places Islington and Docklands which are only 15 minutes away have plenty of rugby fans who never make it to games because there is nowhere convenient) because I think the Olympic Stadium will have the largest one-hour catchment of any stadium in Western Europe. Even High Wycombe station will be only just over an hour from the stadium. 20K a week should be the initial target.

There will also be plenty of places to go for pre or post game drinks either near the stadium or on your way to or from the ground. Add in how attractive this concept will be to owners who want to make a splash and I think this move could save Wasps from oblivion.

Plus, with Saracens hopefully at Copthall, Wasps at the OS, and Quins at the Stoop London will finally have a sensible distribution of AP rugby clubs (and the number will have gone from 1 to 3), leaving LI to hoover up the Thmaes Valley.

I really hope it happens.

That's one talking complete sense. Just need more Dave's. Lots more. Spread the word.

DaveM wrote:

beshocked wrote:Wasps are looking at becoming joint tenants at the Olympic stadium? Crazy in my opinion.

Wasps simply would not be able to afford it. They have not got a wealthy backer who could sustain this. Even if the capacity was 40-50k it would still be too big. The upkeep costs would cripple Wasps.

Also it would be ground sharing yet again. Wasps need a stadium they can call their own. Complete control is ideal.

Moving to the OS is probably likely to improve the chances of getting a wealthy backer. Having a club based at one of the world's most famous stadiums is probably more attractive than one playing at Adams Park. They wouldn't be the sole tennants and I'm not sure what these vast running costs are supposed to be anyway - it'll be a brand new stadium.

Wasps are not going to get a stadium on their own. To do so you need to find a suitable site in London and then outbid everyone else who might want to use that plot of land. Sarries eventually found Copthall which, if it goes ahead, will certainly be a step up from Vicarage Road but a 10,000 seater stadium in Mill Hill is hardly going to move them on to Leciester or Quins levels of self-sufficiency.

The OS needs to find as much income as possible. WH look to be the only football club interested, but I think there is very likely to be a rugby club too and it sounds like Wasps are the one who have made the move.

Trust me as a Saracens fan I think a little more about the stadium process than you do. I have been following Saracen's progress to getting Copthall very closely. There are huge cost implications just in the stadium process alone. Someone will have to fund that. There are numerous hoops that need to be jumped through. So many people need to be satisfied. Also even when you think the deal will be made it could fall through like West Ham's.

It is hard brutal reality vs the dream.

Just trying to acquire a 10,000 seater at Copthall when the Barnet Council are on board is so hard. Again I ask the question - who will stump us the cash for his move? You say that you hope it will improve the chances of getting a wealthy backer - relying on hope is very risky!

It would take an awful lot of money and an awful lot of time and patience by a wealthy backer to even have a chance at acquiring the Olympic Stadium. Would a wealthy backer just stroll into Wasps then say:"right guys, I am in charge now, let's get you a new stadium!". It takes time.

There is also the whole issue of the 2017 Athletic world championships.

The rules for groundsharing with Football are.

For the Football team no Premiership side can ground share with a rugby Club, if the agreement is in place before that team gets promoted to the Premiership it can be honored (not sure if they can sign a new deal while the football team is in the prem).

Hence LI, Ospreys etc have groundshared with Prem teams because the agreement was in place before the football team was promoted. But a team currently in the Prem couldn't agree to ground share with a rugby team.

There are a lot of Rugby Clubs in that area with big kids sections. While I think that the OS itself is not ideal, the location could be near perfect. Easy access from most of London. Loads of local clubs in NE London and Essex to hook into etc.

Still I look at the stadium and wonder how dead it would feel on match day.

Out of Intrest, Could a groundshare with two Rugby Clubs work?

London Irish and London Wasps for example (I know LI have a long agreement with Reading but just for thoughts)

I know they are competing for the same catchment area, but in Italy 2 teams ground share all the time.

AC and Inter Milan, Lazio and Roma etc etc, it goes down to clubs sharing 15,000 stadiums in a small city in lower divisions. If it can work in Italy why not London?

20K a week should be the initial target.

Took Tigers years to generate that level of support. Is that initial target a decade long one?

But a team currently in the Prem couldn't agree to ground share with a rugby team..

Get's in the way of the tv rights. AP teams need to be able to have first access to the ground so their games can be aired at the tv companies want. It's why the deal between Leicester City and the Tigers fell through. Mandaric wouldn't give the Tigers that deal.

Wasps should team up with Leyton Orient (who also want the stadium) share it between them at the 25k level (ample enough for both). They share the costs and maybe drag in a RL franchise to use it over the summer period and they are going to cover the costs.