Ireland Team (Announced) vs Wales - 6Nations 2012 Round 1

First topic message reminder :

Here we go...

IRELAND Team & Replacements (v Wales, RBS 6 Nations Championship 2012, Aviva Stadium, Sunday, February 5th, kick-off 3pm):

15 -Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) Captain
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 -Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

*Denotes uncapped player



ORIGINAL: So the Declan Kidney will be naming his team to face Wales at lunchtime today. In preparation for complete meltdown of 606v2 as is customary for all Ireland team selections I suggest that we keep everything to one thread, namely here.

I'm assuming this one will be broadcast live on irishrugby.ie and as such, I'll be posting that link here before the announcement is made.

Helmets at the ready folks, this could get ugly.

No complaints other than the obvious. Would have been delighted to see Henry in there with my Ulster hat on but O'Mahoney is a really positive inclusion as is Kearney Jr as a backup albeit a little surprising.

Does this mean we will have Henry/Tuohy/Wallace back at Ulster next week i wonder?

SOB has been making about three turnovers a game too now from what I see. SOB will challenge Warburton much more this time around, I don't think it is a cert Warburton will win the breakdown battle (which I'm sure almost everyone will disagree with me on, but we shall wait and see).

Feckless Rogue wrote:I don't understand why the Welsh think their backrow dominated the Irish one in the last game. Ireland had more territory and possession which suggests the opposite. It's what the Welsh did with their possession (and what the Irish didn't do with theirs) that won Wales the game. That's why we're more concerned with the likes of Roberts, Phillips and North than we are with the Welsh backrow. They're the ones that inflicted the damage.

The Welsh backrow did tackle like demons alright. They were very good in defence. But their 2nd row were even better. Their work rate and tackle count were unbelievable. And they're both injured now.

+1 amen brother...finally someone who uses their eyes and doesn't just listen to the hype .

I think SOB is better at 6 than 7, but Ferris is Ireland's best 6 and SOB is Ireland's best 7, if you know what I mean.
I think Ryan should be starting ahead of DOC
I think D'arcy is past his sell by date and McFadden should be starting
I think Sexton and Earls will cause headaches for any opposition
I think Trimble will have a brilliant tournament, so will Kearney. Bowe is off form.
I'm not convinced that Murray is as good as people think, but I'm happy for him to be given a chance. It's not as if our other scrumhalves are world beaters.

Agree with basically all of that Feckless, though I think SOB is best at 7, and we will all see why soon

Anyone seen this by Shane Byrne, on the game?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16783405

Knowsit17 wrote:Warburton's been one of the most consistant members of a poor Blues lineup, every time I see him play he's still making at least two or three vital turnovers per game. I'm sure, based on their last two encounters at this level, he's relishing resuming the individual battle against O'Brien

No big surprises overall in this Irish team, DOC over Ryan maybe not what was expected but hardly issue of the century considering the former's past contribution.

Yep, Warburton has been great for the Blues when they have played the right strategy (B&B are idiots) - He won several crucial turnovers to put the Blues in the HC 1/4s

Still think the back row will be where this battle is one I hope Lydiate is fit because I honestly believe we will see the two best back row combos go head to head with ours shading it over the Irish

Jenkins will be a loss for us in the loose but james is a better scrummager, Healy against jones will be huge battle.

Hope Roberts is fit so we can send him and North down Earls' channel all afternoon as thats where I think Irelands one weak point is.

Of course would have loved to see ROG start but I am just being selfish there

The best backrow goes to France, with NZ coming second. SA third probably. Ireland come after that.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Still think the back row will be where this battle is one I hope Lydiate is fit because I honestly believe we will see the two best back row combos go head to head with ours shading it over the Irish

Jenkins will be a loss for us in the loose but james is a better scrummager, Healy against jones will be huge battle.

Hope Roberts is fit so we can send him and North down Earls' channel all afternoon as thats where I think Irelands one weak point is.

Of course would have loved to see ROG start but I am just being selfish there

The backrow battle will be even enough,I think the vital area is 10-12-13 where you killed us last time.This time we've got Sexton and Earls which gives us a lot more pace on attack and while we lose the best defender in the game at 13 we also lose one of the worst at 10.I think the Welsh injury problems are really tipping the balance of this match in our favour,it's a pity as I'd like to see us up against the best Wales have to offer.

Wouldnt rate SA that highly Rory. Certainly not with Spies in there.

I immediately thought I would probably move Ireland up one and shift SA down, though SA have serious talent in their backrow pool Stand. They may be wrongly starting Spies, but they have other fantastic options apart from him. When Smith returns, they could play him, Burger and Brussouw for example.

If Roberts is fit he and Davies can take full advantage of the D'Arcy-Earls partnership, can just see them paling now at the thought

Leave North to stick to his wing, hope he's top of his game for this one as we may well need a big tackler out wide at some point.

Paul James may well be a better scrummager than Jenkins, Jones is the key man at scrum-time, better start praying he can stay uninjured. He definitely outscrummaged Healy last time they met.

I get the feeling the locks won't measure up to their Irish counterparts but the game doesn't have to revolve on that area.

Gibson wrote:Anyone seen this by Shane Byrne, on the game?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16783405

The first minute or two made me cringe but it got a little better after that. We really do have to win this one though.

Who will Wales play at 6 if DL doesn't make it? R. Jones?

I think Jones generally out scrummages anyone he comes up against. If only we had a Jones for Ireland!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The best backrow goes to France, with NZ coming second. SA third probably. Ireland come after that.

Rory,

Meant to say best two in the NH and I stand by that as a combo I think the irish and Welsh are best two in the NH.

Why do they ?

It wasnt O'Garas defence that was an issue the last time or in the Milennium and I wouldnt say Sexton has great gas. The jury is still out but hoping he can play with some consistency. It will depend on his ability to get the backline moving but as with the WC game what happens inside him will determine that to an extent.

I wouldnt be too concerned with Darcy/Earls defence...

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The best backrow goes to France, with NZ coming second. SA third probably. Ireland come after that.

Rory,

Meant to say best two in the NH and I stand by that as a combo I think the irish and Welsh are best two in the NH.

Neither Ireland nor Wales have come close to outplaying the NZ backrow, unlike France who completely dominated them in the final. France have unbelievable depth there, better than anyone else AND without a "natural" 7. Nyanga, Oudraogo, Dusuatoir, Harinordiquy, Picamoles, Bonnaire, Lakafia, Lapandry etc. Nobody has that kind of talent/depth in their backrow. France top it in the NH and the world.

There's always banter when the 6 Nations comes about thats why we all love it sometimes it goes over the line but on the whole its good friendly rivalry.

With that in mind are there any Irish or Welsh on here that are totally confident their side will win on Sunday.

I think Wales can win and I obviously hope they do, am I confident beyond any shadow we will win NO not at all.

I think if we can gain upper hand early on and get more than a score ahead then yes, if its close going into last quarter then I can just see ROG coming on kicking the corners and Ireland winning.

newbie wrote:It wasnt O'Garas defence that was an issue the last time or in the Milennium and I wouldnt say Sexton has great gas. The jury is still out but hoping he can play with some consistency. It will depend on his ability to get the backline moving but as with the WC game what happens inside him will determine that to an extent.

I wouldnt be too concerned with Darcy/Earls defence...

It wasn't his defence alone but we were on the back foot as Roberts ran through the 10-12 channel and made huge ground every time,Sexton will be more able to support D'Arcy and hopefully close this avenue down.

If you don't think Sexton has great gas you've not watched him play enough.Just look at the 1st HC game against Bath.Early in that match he started a move in his own 22 that released Luke Fitz on a run.He ended up looping around Fitz and catching a pass on the wing in the opposite 22,that alone shows how quick he is but I can cite numerous other examples.

There's always banter when the 6 Nations comes about thats why we all love it sometimes it goes over the line but on the whole its good friendly rivalry.

Agreed 100%, looking forward to a good Saturday afternoon of neutral support before the big boys take the stage on Sunday.

Amazing how the Irish have worked feverishly to convince themselves they actually hold advantages in other areas than the second row even though they were just licked practically yesterday

bedfordwelsh wrote:There's always banter when the 6 Nations comes about thats why we all love it sometimes it goes over the line but on the whole its good friendly rivalry.

With that in mind are there any Irish or Welsh on here that are totally confident their side will win on Sunday.

I think Wales can win and I obviously hope they do, am I confident beyond any shadow we will win NO not at all.

I think if we can gain upper hand early on and get more than a score ahead then yes, if its close going into last quarter then I can just see ROG coming on kicking the corners and Ireland winning.

I'm getting close to having that kind of confidence in Ireland but it's more to do with all the injuries Wales are suffering than anything else.I can't really say for sure until the Welsh team is announced.

me too almost by default.

if roberts and priestland dont make it we simply must win. a defeat for our first 15 against a Welsh side missing 6 first teamers will be a right kick in the teeth

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

newbie wrote:It wasnt O'Garas defence that was an issue the last time or in the Milennium and I wouldnt say Sexton has great gas. The jury is still out but hoping he can play with some consistency. It will depend on his ability to get the backline moving but as with the WC game what happens inside him will determine that to an extent.

I wouldnt be too concerned with Darcy/Earls defence...

It wasn't his defence alone but we were on the back foot as Roberts ran through the 10-12 channel and made huge ground every time,Sexton will be more able to support D'Arcy and hopefully close this avenue down.

If you don't think Sexton has great gas you've not watched him play enough.Just look at the 1st HC game against Bath.Early in that match he started a move in his own 22 that released Luke Fitz on a run.He ended up looping around Fitz and catching a pass on the wing in the opposite 22,that alone shows how quick he is but I can cite numerous other examples.

Sure as could anyone give examples of ROG being at the end of a move but its not that Sexton is known for being a speedster. Also while Robers ran at the 10-12 channel it was in other areas where he made greatest inroads unfortunately. I hope Sexton does well and knocks out the inconsistencies he has for Ireland plus he still has to convince me that he is capable of going a full season in the 6ns and play the different types of game management required. Especially against the Welsh back three where any loose kicking will be punished and this is a particular area of weakness for Sexton. I personally would like to see him starting all of the 6ns for this reason. But with O'Gara as back up he will be under pressure. Lets see how he handles it (as was pointed out in the Indo this morning).

I think we blew the French backrow away with only 2 in the back row last time we played them - completely dominated them - Toby and Dan on their own - Jamie helped out at scrum time but we still outplayed them

newbie wrote:
Sure as could anyone give examples of ROG being at the end of a move but its not that Sexton is known for being a speedster. Also while Robers ran at the 10-12 channel it was in other areas where he made greatest inroads unfortunately. I hope Sexton does well and knocks out the inconsistencies he has for Ireland plus he still has to convince me that he is capable of going a full season in the 6ns and play the different types of game management required. Especially against the Welsh back three where any loose kicking will be punished and this is a particular area of weakness for Sexton. I personally would like to see him starting all of the 6ns for this reason. But with O'Gara as back up he will be under pressure. Lets see how he handles it (as was pointed out in the Indo this morning).

Eh what?How is RoG being on the end of a move anyway close to my example.

If you can find me an example of RoG starting a move in his own 22 then catching up with a winger while also running form the centre of the pitch to the wing and collecting the 3rd pass then that might count.
Also look at the try he scored against Saracens in the away match last year another example of great pace,the guy is quick he's no winger but he's a huge running threat.

edit: Loose kicking shouldn't be a problem his kicking from hand has been far better than RoG this year,you only have to look at the last 2 Wales compared to the Oz games to see how much better his kicking from hand is.He needs to sort out his place kicking for Ireland but for me that's the only issue for me in every other department he has proved himself imo.

RubyGuby wrote:I think we blew the French backrow away with only 2 in the back row last time we played them - completely dominated them - Toby and Dan on their own - Jamie helped out at scrum time but we still outplayed them

Not in the lineout though, Bonnaire had the better of us by a long way. Still I partly agree, Faletau in particular excelled in that game.

Remember Warburton has yet to play 30 mins, let alone 80, against France. He and Dusautoir tussling for the ball from start to finish could be something special.

Beyond this opener, I'd say France is a game we should target. Just can't forgive them for being so lucky and we have to set the record straight, they're in danger of becoming a bogey team for us.

RubyGuby wrote:I think we blew the French backrow away with only 2 in the back row last time we played them - completely dominated them - Toby and Dan on their own - Jamie helped out at scrum time but we still outplayed them

Flip me, you are cocky! And you accused Ireland of overhyping their back-row earlier? I feel you will be eating most of your words this 6 nations honestly. I will make sure to remind you when the time comes. Dusuatoir, Hari etc were all disinterested and off form until the final. Why? Because they had Mad Marc as their coach. Under the new coaching staff, they will show their true colours.

Dusuatoir, Hari etc were all disinterested and off form until the final.

Keep 'em coming I love it - Have you noticed how Wales never play well, everyone else is either off form or underestimated them - Cocky That 1 Grand Slam in 300 years is going a long way with you

bedfordwelsh wrote:There's always banter when the 6 Nations comes about thats why we all love it sometimes it goes over the line but on the whole its good friendly rivalry.

With that in mind are there any Irish or Welsh on here that are totally confident their side will win on Sunday.

I think Wales can win and I obviously hope they do, am I confident beyond any shadow we will win NO not at all.

I think if we can gain upper hand early on and get more than a score ahead then yes, if its close going into last quarter then I can just see ROG coming on kicking the corners and Ireland winning.

If you return here later in the evening after Gibbo has a few under his belt, you will read some serious confidence in Ireland

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

newbie wrote:
Sure as could anyone give examples of ROG being at the end of a move but its not that Sexton is known for being a speedster. Also while Robers ran at the 10-12 channel it was in other areas where he made greatest inroads unfortunately. I hope Sexton does well and knocks out the inconsistencies he has for Ireland plus he still has to convince me that he is capable of going a full season in the 6ns and play the different types of game management required. Especially against the Welsh back three where any loose kicking will be punished and this is a particular area of weakness for Sexton. I personally would like to see him starting all of the 6ns for this reason. But with O'Gara as back up he will be under pressure. Lets see how he handles it (as was pointed out in the Indo this morning).

Eh what?How is RoG being on the end of a move anyway close to my example.

If you can find me an example of RoG starting a move in his own 22 then catching up with a winger while also running form the centre of the pitch to the wing and collecting the 3rd pass then that might count.
Also look at the try he scored against Saracens in the away match last year another example of great pace,the guy is quick he's no winger but he's a huge running threat.

edit: Loose kicking shouldn't be a problem his kicking from hand has been far better than RoG this year,you only have to look at the last 2 Wales compared to the Oz games to see how much better his kicking from hand is.He needs to sort out his place kicking for Ireland but for me that's the only issue for me in every other department he has proved himself imo.

Er I dont want to burst your bubble but the try you are talking about the move started around the 10 meter line. By the time Fitz had gone on the outside it was close to the Bath 10 meter line and like any good player Sexton was originally ahead of fitz and following up for an easy run in. It was certainly good support play but given he was ahead of Fitz by between 5 and 10 metres at the start of the move its not exactly a good example. Maybe you are getting confused with the last Luke Fitz try but that had nothing to do with Sexton. So no I cant be bothered looking for an example from O'Gara as the point about this is that in terms of a running threat he has not really proven this especially with Ireland (and he doesnt exactly do it that much for Leinster either). What he is better than O'Gara with is taking the ball into contact and not losing it. Another weakness is his limited passing and he tries the loop too much which is easily read. His problem is still inconsistency in an Irish shirt (not sure why you mention the last 2 wales - games I presume). It was his kick out on the full that caused us the problem in the Milenium.

Anyway as I said am hoping he takes ownership of the 10 shirt. But I dont believe he is the finished article as outhalves go.

RubyGuby wrote:Dusuatoir, Hari etc were all disinterested and off form until the final.

Keep 'em coming I love it - Have you noticed how Wales never play well, everyone else is either off form or underestimated them - Cocky That 1 Grand Slam in 300 years is going a long way with you

Well if you saw the feud between the players and the coach you would have realised that.. I realise now you are just wumming though so I think I had better stop

newbie wrote:

Er I dont want to burst your bubble but the try you are talking about the move started around the 10 meter line. By the time Fitz had gone on the outside it was close to the Bath 10 meter line and like any good player Sexton was originally ahead of fitz and following up for an easy run in. It was certainly good support play but given he was ahead of Fitz by between 5 and 10 metres at the start of the move its not exactly a good example. Maybe you are getting confused with the last Luke Fitz try but that had nothing to do with Sexton. So no I cant be bothered looking for an example from O'Gara as the point about this is that in terms of a running threat he has not really proven this especially with Ireland (and he doesnt exactly do it that much for Leinster either). What he is better than O'Gara with is taking the ball into contact and not losing it. Another weakness is his limited passing and he tries the loop too much which is easily read. His problem is still inconsistency in an Irish shirt (not sure why you mention the last 2 wales - games I presume). It was his kick out on the full that caused us the problem in the Milenium.

Anyway as I said am hoping he takes ownership of the 10 shirt. But I dont believe he is the finished article as outhalves go.

My bubble isn't burst because I was talking about a move in the 1st game,the away game and it didn't end in a try.
You're right he hasn't shown the running threat with Ireland,the hope is that with Gaffney gone our backs will start to function again but to say he doesn't do it much for Leinster is just ill informed.

I am a little confused here. Do some people actually think that Sexton is slow? He is actually very quick, deceptively quick.

Sexton is very fast. It's just ridiculous to suggest otherwise. His kicking from hand has been equal to ROG's in this years HEC. His goal kicking has been superb for Leinster as usual. He's had a nice long distance drop goal and a last minute penalty from the touch line. He has a better running game and than ROG and is better in defence. He scores tries.

This shouldn't even be a debate. But Kidney didn't know what to do with Sexton. O'Gara is a flyhalf who's game fits perfectly with how Kidney has always played rugby. Our problem is that style of rugby is pretty much redundant at the top level of test rugby. I think O'Gara's performance in the RWC quarter final will have finally convinced Kidney of the error of his ways.

eirebilly wrote:I am a little confused here. Do some people actually think that Sexton is slow? He is actually very quick, deceptively quick.

No only newbie seems to think it,it's not something I've ever seen anybody else suggest.

Oh ok shoulder, it just amazed me that. Sexton is one of the quickest OH's around.

As for his passing skills, well i think that he is pretty good off both hands as well..

I may be a Munsterman but things have to be kept in perspective

eirebilly wrote:Oh ok shoulder, it just amazed me that. Sexton is one of the quickest OH's around.

As for his passing skills, well i think that he is pretty good off both hands as well..

I may be a Munsterman but things have to be kept in perspective

Yeah I only kept debating it because it is such a ridiculous statement.
It would be a bit like me saying RoG hasn't ever shown the ability to score drop goals when the pressure is on.

o gara is arguably a better passer but he does it way behind the gainline and only succeeds in getting it quickly to the outside backs who are marmalized by a blitz defence. in the modern game against top international side it is too predictable.

sexton has got the nod as rog has started the last two games v wales and has played poorly and kicked poorly from hand in both. Sexton has started ten on the few occasions we have fulfilled our potential past 18months he has been no means perfect for ireland but deserves the nod for this one. Lets see how he gets on

Imagine what Gibbo will write when he sees that after indulging in a few

Er hello guys...I dont think I ever said he was slow (its like chinese whispers on here). . Now now you shouldnt be putting words in peoples mouths when they arent agreeing with you.

I dont believe he is a particular speedster either and he is certainly faster than O'Gara (John Hayes is faster than O'Gara). I dont believe he has shown this while playing for Ireland (and outside of the odd occassion he doesnt do it much for Leinster either). The point is that he has not shown his running threat for Ireland as of yet it would be good to see him doing this.

Regarding the comment that he scores tries? For Leinster or for Ireland? I believe O'Gara has a pretty good try scoring record for Ireland. Also some people are rewriting history regarding the QF. While O'Gara wasnt great it seemed like a collective team failure and our backrow got fairly spanked.

I am in neither the O'Gara or Sexton camps but am glad we have both. I want to see Sexton start as O'Gara is getting past it but he is not finished yet considering his performances for Munster. However I am not yet 100% convinced that Sexton has what it takes to perform consistently and am hoping he steps up to the plate this weekend.

dublin_dave, you could argue that ROG is the better passer because he takes more time and, as you say, allows a blitz defence to thump the centres. Sexton's distribution is alot quicker and thus prone to look a little more untidy but in todays game is much more effective..

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Oh ok shoulder, it just amazed me that. Sexton is one of the quickest OH's around.

As for his passing skills, well i think that he is pretty good off both hands as well..

I may be a Munsterman but things have to be kept in perspective

Yeah I only kept debating it because it is such a ridiculous statement.
It would be a bit like me saying RoG hasn't ever shown the ability to score drop goals when the pressure is on.

Do you always start discussing people in the third person during a valid discussion...tut tut...its bad manners.

Sexton is limited in his passing it has always been part of his problems originally anyway. He has certainly improved but he doesnt have the same range like O'Gara (or the new guy Madigan at the moment who has terrific hands). But as has been stated O'Gara tends to do it to far behind the gain line (although the complaint before was he did it too close to the gain line)...

A speedster he may not be newbie but for an OH, he is one of the quickest around. He also follows the play and supports better than most Oh's as well..

eirebilly wrote:A speedster he may not be newbie but for an OH, he is one of the quickest around. He also follows the play and supports better than most Oh's as well..

And I very much hope to see more of it next Sunday.....

Oh and I am neither Leinster or Munster but a Tribesman who has lived down South and am now here in the East for my penance.

ROG is a more controled and measured passer of the ball newbie which is why he makes it look so fluent. Sexton is a lot quicker so it looks a bit more scrappy. If Sexton took the same time to pass the ball as ROG does, then he would look just as fluent..

il concede he has a funny run albeit not in the felix jones catergory.

billy are you in amsterdam? im in the dam for the weekend at a stag. good spot to watch the game? gibbo gave me loads of advice but cannot find the thread for love nor money.

Nah, i am north of Amsterdam dave. Coco's is the place i go to watch the rugby if i am in Amsterdam. Gibbo goes there as well. Its a good place with nice beer and a mix of nationalities. Great place to watch and talk rugby

Its an Aussie pub on Rembrandtplein.

newbie wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Oh ok shoulder, it just amazed me that. Sexton is one of the quickest OH's around.

As for his passing skills, well i think that he is pretty good off both hands as well..

I may be a Munsterman but things have to be kept in perspective

Yeah I only kept debating it because it is such a ridiculous statement.
It would be a bit like me saying RoG hasn't ever shown the ability to score drop goals when the pressure is on.

Do you always start discussing people in the third person during a valid discussion...tut tut...its bad manners.

Sexton is limited in his passing it has always been part of his problems originally anyway. He has certainly improved but he doesnt have the same range like O'Gara (or the new guy Madigan at the moment who has terrific hands). But as has been stated O'Gara tends to do it to far behind the gain line (although the complaint before was he did it too close to the gain line)...

I was answering a different poster in a seperate conversation,it just happens to be on the same thread but that's what happens on internet forums.

The debate was about his pace now I've cited several examples of how quick he is so don't go changing the subject just because you can't refute them.