Ireland U20s v Wales U20s - match thread.

[Cari]

First topic message reminder :

Venue: Dubarry Park, Athlone, Ireland.
Kick off: 7:05pm
Live on BBC 2 Wales and RTÉ Two from 7pm.
Referee: James Matthew (Scotland)

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/match_centre_u20.php?section=overview&fixid=169258

Ireland:

15 - Shane Layden
14 - Barry Daly
13 - Foster Horan
12 - JJ Hanrahan
11 - Sam Coghlan-Murray
10 - Patrick Jackson
9 - Kieran Marmion
1 - Kyle McCall
2 - Niall Scannell
3 - Peter Reilly
4 - Iain Henderson
5 - Daniel Qualter
6 - Conor Gilsenan
7 - Aaron Conneely
8 - Jack Conan

Replacements:
16 - Des Merrey
17 - James Rael
18 - Jake Cawley
19 - Tadgh Beirne
20 - Jordan Coghlan
21 - Luke McGrath
22 - Cathal Marsh
23 - Christopher Farrell

Errrm, I can't find who Wales are putting out, but here's the squad:
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/squads_wales_u20.php

[Notch]

Yeah to you maybe!

Is it warm in the imaginary world you live in Cymro? Would you like a chip for the other shoulder? He didn't mention anything about Ireland vs England.

We'll need to play better to get anything against France who we play next. We were poor enough in terms of turning possession and territory into points. We made mistakes in the lineout and at the breakdown. We drastically need to improve our placekicking.

I'd say Wales will be in for a few hammerings if they play like that again though.

[red_stag]

Rava genuinely every time I see him, he half does things.

Yes he is young but I hear him talked up so so so much as being a definite starter for Ulster and a future Irish international.

It isnt a wum just I don't see it. He'll kick well from hand but cant kick a simple penalty. Not once have I ever seen him turn in a truly class performance worthy of this potential I hear so much of.

Compare him to say Matthew Morgan at Ospreys. A world of difference.

Ulster are better off taking advantage of fact Leinster have Sexton/Keatley and Munster have Keatley/ROG to sign a truly class flyhalf.

Because while he does some things very well, not once have I seen a top class performance from him.* And no Rava its not a wum. Do you see him as being at same level as Ian Madigan in 18 months?

(*He apparently had a top game in the combined provinces fixture though I didnt see the match so cant say)

[rodders]

Who said Ireland had a good performance?

That wasn't good enough by Ireland but they were still comfortably better than Wales. If Ireland had of had a bit more composure and Jackson had of brought his kicking boots then the scoreline would have been a lot wider.

Both those sides will take a beating against England I fear.

[HammerofThunor]

I wouldn't worry too much about the U20 6 nations. It's just a warm up for the JWC anyway. It won't matter if you lose to England by 40 points or other you do well and only lose by 20. All that matters is that this year we finally beat the Baby Blacks

[Taffineastbourne]

I thought Wales were awful and will take a big beating from England
on that performance

And what gives you great hope against England since you struggled to put away an abject Welsh side?Get real,mun.

Didn't see where he said we would beat England. Actually if the Welsh could hold on to the ball we might be able to assess their capabilities.

"Irish 15 looked like a Gaelic Footballer.If he gets some coaching he may turn into a Rugby player." I'm sure you haven't a clue what a Gaelic Footballer looks like in comparison to anyone else but I would remind you that some of Ireland's best were brought up in Gaelic Football. Most recently Shane Horgan and Tomas O'Leary.

Where did I say you would beat England?Read my post and give it some thought.Surprisingly Gaelic Football has made it onto tv and even the internet.My original comment stands.Again you might engage your brain.Or not as appears to be your choice.

[Cymroglan]

Notch if you cant reply in a adult fashion then don't bother.

Both sides were very poor tonight any decent side would have put 30+ points against a extremely poor Welsh side tonight.

[rodders]

Stag I'm not totally convinced by Jackson but I'd have him over Keatley any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Get a grip man Jackson is 20 years old! Give the kid a break.

ROG was mediocre until he was 27.

[rodders]

I wouldn't worry too much about the U20 6 nations. It's just a warm up for the JWC anyway. It won't matter if you lose to England by 40 points or other you do well and only lose by 20. All that matters is that this year we finally beat the Baby Blacks

A pity then about the senior team then Hammer.....

[red_stag]

We'll agree to disagree. I don't feel the need to get into a big discussion as I'm annoyed to be simply branded as a wum because I don't accept him as the next big thing.

We'll agree to disagree but he strikes me as a very talented schools player who'll make a very average professional player.

[HammerofThunor]

What senior team? Rugby's a kids game isn't it. Didn't think you were allowed to play it after 20

[rodders]

Stag I think generally you are far too quick to write young players off.

If he was 25 I'd agree with you but he is 20 and clearly has a lot of talent.

[Taffineastbourne]

Notch if you cant reply in a adult fashion then don't bother.

Both sides were very poor tonight any decent side would have put 30+ points against a extremely poor Welsh side tonight.

Cymro,I am not a fan of uphill skiing so I will retire.If you have the will you can try and reason with them.I'm to my bed.

[Notch]

Cymro you make me laugh for all the wrong reasons.

I agree, I was disappointed we didn't score more points. We certainly should have put an abysmal Wales to the sword but instead ended with the game still in the balance. Should have been out of sight.

I do feel there a number of examples of us being close to clicking though, small improvements will make a big difference, and there were a lot of encouraging aspects to our performance that were encouraging too. I'm more concerned with seeing what individuals there are that can kick on to the next level.

[red_stag]

Which young players Rodders?

[Notch]

We'll agree to disagree. I don't feel the need to get into a big discussion as I'm annoyed to be simply branded as a wum because I don't accept him as the next big thing.

We'll agree to disagree but he strikes me as a very talented schools player who'll make a very average professional player.

Er, mate, you can be a serious poster or a WUM. You can't do both because no-one will be able to tell when you're being serious and when you're Wumming. I don't see how you can complain about this state of affairs; you are the one who has brought it about after all.

[Cymroglan]

Close to clicking is one thing but being unable to click against very poor opposition would tell me that the side is far from clicking.
Ireland were under very little pressure tonight and it's going to take a massive improvement just to stop England from putting 50 points past you Wales just need a miracle.

Laugh as much as you want it's always been a philosophy of mine to enjoy life to the full,

[Notch]

Enjoy your life to the full mate. Spare no excuse- only the finest tinfoil hats from now on!

Good luck to you Cymro

[Cymroglan]

Tinfoil hats ?

[Morgannwg]

Why do Irish react badly when they are told one of their players is not as good as they believe?

[Rava]

So we agree then that England are just as likely to put 50 points past Ireland as they are against Wales.

No I wouldn't agree with anything you said.

On Principal Like

[Notch]

I'm just saying Cymro. You've an awful tendency to read subtexts into peoples comments that simply do not exist.

It makes you look a bit swively-eyed is all.

[Cymroglan]

Notch you do realise that I said that Wales were extremely poor tonight ?
Not once have I said we deserved to win or were unlucky not to have won
All I have said was that both sides were very poor so I'm not sure why you feel the need to have a go.

[Morgannwg]

Ireland are not close to clicking.

[rodders]

Which young players Rodders?

Just generally stag. Danny Barnes was one. My feeling is that if a young guy has mental strength, a good attitude and least importantly a bit of talent then they can go a long way. Mistakes come from inexperience and time can rectify that.

I think with young players what they do wrong is of less importance than what they do right.

It was another mixed bag from Jackson, I'm not convinced but I believe that he is talented and when he does things well he really does them well. At 20 thats not a bad place to be.

[Cymroglan]

I'm just saying Cymro. You've an awful tendency to read subtexts into peoples comments that simply do not exist.

It makes you look a bit swively-eyed is all.

That is nonsense all I said was that both sides are just as likely to suffer a heavy defeat by England or is that not allowed ?

[Notch]

Notch you do realise that I said that Wales were extremely poor tonight ?
Not once have I said we deserved to win or were unlucky not to have won
All I have said was that both sides were very poor so I'm not sure why you feel the need to have a go.

And all I've done is agreed with you on both points.

I just found it funny that because someone said Wales were likely to get beaten by England you got very defensive and started suggesting the poster was implying Ireland would have a much better chance against them.

I think we'd all acknowledge that if we played like that we would most likely lose decisively, but you were suddenly all offended and chippy over an imagined boast which was never implied. Thats what I found amusing.

[Cymroglan]

Once again I simply said that both sides are just as likely to suffer a heavy defeat by England.
I found it hilarious that only Wales were singled out when both sides were very poor tonight.

And just like the others I also acknowledged that a heavy loss was on the cards but the fact I done it seems to have upset you.

[red_stag]

But there are lots of young players I do rate. For example at Munster I think that we have no business signing Downey and should be developing Hanrahan. And if fit Mike Sherry is the best hooker with us rather than Flannery or Varley.

[Notch]

Which young players Rodders?

Just generally stag. Danny Barnes was one. My feeling is that if a young guy has mental strength, a good attitude and least importantly a bit of talent then they can go a long way. Mistakes come from inexperience and time can rectify that.

I think with young players what they do wrong is of less importance than what they do right.

It was another mixed bag from Jackson, I'm not convinced but I believe that he is talented and when he does things well he really does them well. At 20 thats not a bad place to be.

I've seen international outhalves who have been worse than Jackson at the same age and guys who never made it who have been better at that age.

I think saying he's the next big thing is as foolish as writing him off completely. He's a guy who is talented and may or may not develop into a good player. I believe he will, with the right application and guidance.

You say do you see him being as good as Madigan in 18 months- but 18 months ago Madigan was nowhere near as good as Jackson is now. But players develop at different rates so it's not really that relevant. All I can take from his career so far is that he has promise and has done well for Ulster when called upon in the last few months.

On that basis I feel he has an opportunity to become an Ulster regular if he applies himself and- most importantly- remedies his place kicking problems.

[Notch]

Once again I simply said that both sides are just as likely to suffer a heavy defeat by England.
I found it hilarious that only Wales were singled out when both sides were very poor tonight.

And just like the others I also acknowledged that a heavy loss was on the cards but the fact I done it seems to have upset you.

I agree with you that if both sides were to play against England like they did tonight they would most likely lose decisively. No-one is 'singling' Wales out or praising Ireland unduly. It's funny for me because you are jumping on a throwaway comment and reading a lot into it without any real basis for doing so.

[rodders]

Yeah thats not what I'm saying...I think you are too quick to write young guys off.

I think you need to give a player until they're 25/6 before you can throw them on the scrap heap. Even then they can surprise you.

When you are looking at 20 year olds you're not looking at the finished article just the blueprint of what they might become.

[rodders]

I've seen international outhalves who have been worse than Jackson at the same age and guys who never made it who have been better at that age.

I think saying he's the next big thing is as foolish as writing him off completely. He's a guy who is talented and may or may not develop into a good player. I believe he will, with the right application and guidance.

You say do you see him being as good as Madigan in 18 months- but 18 months ago Madigan was nowhere near as good as Jackson is now. But players develop at different rates so it's not really that relevant. All I can take from his career so far is that he has promise and has done well for Ulster when called upon in the last few months.

On that basis I feel he has an opportunity to become an Ulster regular if he applies himself and- most importantly- remedies his place kicking problems.

Exactly Notch.

[Cymroglan]

Notch it's you that's reading too much into mine.

I simply said both sides will suffer a heavy loss to England nothing more nothing less you have acknowledged that you have no problem with others saying it but the fact I said it has got under your skin.
I am a member of this site and as far as I understand things I'm also allowed to post comments on here?

[Notch]

Now you're making up a little story about how you've got under my skin in your head...

I would be deeply upset if you stopped posting comments Cymro. Truly, deeply upset

[Rava]

Notch it's you that's reading too much into mine.

I simply said both sides will suffer a heavy loss to England nothing more nothing less you have acknowledged that you have no problem with others saying it but the fact I said it has got under your skin.
I am a member of this site and as far as I understand things I'm also allowed to post comments on here?

Oh where is the handbag emoticon when you need it

[Notch]

I'm sorry Cymro. It was just the second part of this sentence made me laugh;

But he did suggest that Wales would take a awful beating to me that would suggest that he believes Ireland would not.

I mean... really? Talk about an active imagination...

[Cymroglan]

Notch
You are so easy to wind in

[Knowsit17]

If there's anything that I can never stand it's when the team cluelessly ruins all the hard work of edging the lead with a silly unforced error, or in this case two silly unforced errors.

As far as stats go Wales were very lucky not to concede more. I thought both teams were very sloppy, Wales of course taking the cake with our inability to keep possession in contact among other things.

[Notch]

Notch
You are so easy to wind in

See, I used to think you were a WUM. Now I oscillate back and forth. Can't quite decide.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Henderson will make it big guys. Went to school with him, brilliant player. He has bulked up significantly since then (and he was big then too!). He has a very good rugby brain as well as being able to do the donkey work, and generally people really do struggle to get him down, as he has a monster hand-off and a very rangy style of running. Hope he is used more in open play however where he really excels, similar to how Toner is being used now for Leinster.

[Cymroglan]

A WUM of course not I'm a adult, But for some reason you don't seem to like me I'm not sure why I'm not aware of upsetting you.
If we had a disagreement in the past I thought nothing of it I have moved on.
And before you say I'm paranoid I'm not that sort of person but I am bright enough to notice the little digs from you.

If I have upset you in the past then it was not my intention to do that or upset anybody else on the site if it comes to that.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Flip me guys get a room or something. SHEESH. Lets talk about the rugby eh?

[rodders]

Who was Henderson Rory? The 2nd row?

[Knowsit17]

Flip me guys get a room or something. SHEESH. Lets talk about the rugby eh?

Agreed, this baiting or mental staredown or whatever leaves behind a sour taste, not what's needed in the aftermath of any game.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Henderson was the number 4! The second row without a scrum-cap. Number 8 for B.R.A. in the school's cup final 1/2 years ago. Though he has switched to second row since leaving school it seems (probably the right move, given our abundance of back rowers and the fact he is 6 foot 6).

[rodders]

OK rory. You're and Academy lad eh? ....tell me this what is the schools set up now like for training and conditioning? Do you think we are underpowered at this level compared to the countries which use the club system more?

[logie28]

Ok, I'll admit im viewing this as an ulster fan, but i like to think I'm an objective observer and I have to say Jackson looks a class act to me. Obviously needs to work on his place kicking, and is a year or two away from being a genuine top class player, but at 20 all the component parts are there.

Really like the look of Henderson too. My concern for him is wether he is big enough to be an international 2nd row, or wether he'll need to move to 6/8, but the next two years of physical developement will decide that rather than his talent or attitude which for me are already there.

Overall I thought Hanrahan, altho not outstanding tonight, looks the most complete Irish player at this age level I've seen this year, and Layden, Gilsenan, and Conan stood out for me on the first time I've seen them play.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Unfortunately I am yes haha dropped out at some point though and went off to the good old BMC well at school I quit rugby at some point (a big regret on my part) but I think that the team frequently trained at the gym in Jordanstown that Ulster would use, and got some sort of training program issued by Ulster. I mean some of our guys ended up huge by the time we got to the schools cup final. Apparently just the other day Muller was training with the current 1sts also.

I do think the clubs get a bit left out though in terms of development. I have a few friends who play for the clubs, but generally all focus is on the schools and then as soon as the students leave, they get straight onto the club teams. They are the focus. I think more effot should be placed on developing the clubs youth definitely. They would never get the access to equipment etc that the schools would. At senior level it isn't so important as the students end up joining the club teams.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Logie, he is 6 foot 6 and over 18 stone. If that isn't big enough for a second row, what is?

[rodders]

Thats good that Ulster are issuing programs. Its moved on from my day then.

When I was playing schoolboy rugby only a handful of players did weights off their own back and then I remember going to Wales and every man and his dog were on creatine and protein shakes.

Hey man its never too late to go back and play again

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