Khan v Ortiz: Makes sense now!

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http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=30644&more=1


http://www.boxingscene.com/amir-khan-victor-ortiz-an-ideal-fight-me-147--49225


With both these fighters now looking for a big fight, surely this fight makes sense right now. Kudos to Khan were he to take this , even more kudos were he to win. I think Ortiz would take it in a flash.

WHU, It was a close fight but I had Peterson winning. Could have gone either way and have no qualms with it being scored a draw.

Berto I have never rated. Big, strong and good puncher. I question his skills and ability at the top level. As for the Maidana fight, I dont put too much emphasis on that fight. As you say he was probably drained and Maidana could knock down a horse.

For me its what I saw during and especially after the Floyd fight. He seemed very happy to lose. Given the way in which he lost I would expect a different response from him. It makes me question his mentality.

azania wrote:And your exaggerations are amusing but if Khan had a jab, any jab he would have won easily. Face it though, boxing fans know who won that fight regardless of the record books.

Indeed they do - it seems that around half 'know' that Khan won, while the other half 'know' that Peterson won. But don't let that derail your daft quest to make the whole world think that public opinion is overwhelmingly with Khan and that it was a robbery of Escalera-Everett proportions, Az.

Ortiz will pile drive straight through Khan with complete ease.

Ortiz is an animal at the weigh and if Khan were to step to 147lbs then game over

88Chris05 wrote:

azania wrote:And your exaggerations are amusing but if Khan had a jab, any jab he would have won easily. Face it though, boxing fans know who won that fight regardless of the record books.

Indeed they do - it seems that around half 'know' that Khan won, while the other half 'know' that Peterson won. But don't let that derail your daft quest to make the whole world think that public opinion is overwhelmingly with Khan and that it was a robbery of Escalera-Everett proportions, Az.

I haven't said robery or indeed hyped it up in the manner you're exaggerating things. Khan won a close fight even with the silly points deductions. I scored it to him by a round with the deductions. But it could have gone either way and indeed it did.

But take out the silly refereeing and Khan wins. Khan wins easier if he uses a jab with a reasonable amount of authority. He didn't. He wouldn't need that against Ortiz as he is very vulnerable to straight right counters. Khan wins an exciting fight in 3 rounds.

Still fail to see how two guys coming off losses can make sense.....with no title at stake..

Certainly not financially credible as is.....unless lo and behold the WBA decide to strip Lamont for profit!!!

This gets made I guess that will happen and I'll be wrong..

d260005p wrote:Ortiz will pile drive straight through Khan with complete ease.

Ortiz is an animal at the weigh and if Khan were to step to 147lbs then game over

Wow. The easy to hit Ortiz? If this fight happens, Khan wins early. Ortiz will be wide open. I hope he comes in with the confidence you have in him as it will make Khan's job easier. Possibly a first round KO.

Its the manner of their loss that matters trussy. Many believe Khan was 'robbed' by over zealous refeering and many have sympathy for the way Ortiz lost. Its an easy sell.

It matters not if the WBA strip Peterson. The fight will be at WW (if it happens).

I know the manner of their losses...

But the fact remains that they are two losers....one is okay but both!!!

and it's still a big fight!!

Still without a title I still don't think it makes sense until one of them wins one or gets handed one..

alma wrote:

azania wrote:

d260005p wrote:Ortiz will pile drive straight through Khan with complete ease.

Ortiz is an animal at the weigh and if Khan were to step to 147lbs then game over

Wow. The easy to hit Ortiz? If this fight happens, Khan wins early. Ortiz will be wide open. I hope he comes in with the confidence you have in him as it will make Khan's job easier. Possibly a first round KO.

Surely you can't be serious????

After seeing both of them, I simply believe Ortiz is made to measure for Khan.

I figured Petersen was..

Wasn't maidana easy to hit also, he wasn't stopped inside 3. Ortiz put maidana down more than khan did. If anything Ortiz will get a quick KO. He has had every one of his opponents bar mayweather on the floor, why will amir be any different, he's hardly a master tactician

I think Ortiz genuinly wipes Khan. I am a massive Khan fan, but after seeing how he copes under pressure, its obvious Ortiz is far too relentless for him.

Not only that, but Khan struggled majorly against a 140lb Peterson when he was pressured.

If Ortiz had the same game plan as that, but instead came in at say 152lbs or whatever (on the night of the fight), then Ortiz will piledrive through Khan.

Unless the step up in weight for Amir improves his inside game and strength to actually push a fighter back (not by literally pushing of course ) then we could have a good scrap.

Ortiz for me though gents.

Id be very surprised if this fight came off. I dont think Ortiz is the sort of opponent that Khans team like. I think Marquez/Morales would be more suitable opponents if he want to stay at 140.

Ortiz is a big swarming fighter that I think is all wrong for Khan. Khan would struggle under the pressure and find himself backed up and trappe on the ropes alot. Ortiz is easy enough to hit and has been on the floor a few times so for an accurate enough puncher like Khan thats a plus but the Peterson/Maidana fights would lead me to conclude that he finds it very difficult unless he really hurts Ortiz with his power enough to keep him at bay, which I doubt. Like the Maidana fight he could possibly eek through but it would be by a narrow margin and for that reason I think his team would prefer other options rather than take on this kind of risk immediately after a loss.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Wasn't maidana easy to hit also, he wasn't stopped inside 3. Ortiz put maidana down more than khan did. If anything Ortiz will get a quick KO. He has had every one of his opponents bar mayweather on the floor, why will amir be any different, he's hardly a master tactician

Khan could have had Maidana out of there in 1 round. Ifs and buts. Ortiz is no defensive wiz and none to smart with head movements either. Made for Kham imo. Yes Khan could struggle as he did against Peterson and Maidana. But his results against common opponents is better that Ortiz. Plus khan is simply the more skilled fighter. 3 rounds. No mas.

azania wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Wasn't maidana easy to hit also, he wasn't stopped inside 3. Ortiz put maidana down more than khan did. If anything Ortiz will get a quick KO. He has had every one of his opponents bar mayweather on the floor, why will amir be any different, he's hardly a master tactician

Khan could have had Maidana out of there in 1 round. Ifs and buts. Ortiz is no defensive wiz and none to smart with head movements either. Made for Kham imo. Yes Khan could struggle as he did against Peterson and Maidana. But his results against common opponents is better that Ortiz. Plus khan is simply the more skilled fighter. 3 rounds. No mas.

Id find it hard to accept that any fighter with the kind of style and pressure that Ortiz has could be considered made for Khan - his two losses and narrowest win have come against fighters employing this kind of tactic.

I see fighters like Judah or Malignaggi or at present Mosley as being fighters made for Khan. Guys that Khan just beats to the punch from the outside. Even Marquez I think would find Khan difficult. But fighters you like to walk him down tend to find success. Even if Khan were capable of beating Ortiz, I dont think its the kind of opponent his team would want to have much to do with if given the choice.

Peterson and to a lesser extent Maidana gave Khan angles he couldn't cope with. Ortiz (and Berto) come forward in straight lines. Ortiz in particular is poor defensively, no head movement and a dodgy chin. Plus khan is a very fast starter. Ortiz won't cope with his speed. If it goes past 3 rounds then its anybody's fight. I doubt it will.

I cant really say that I have seen Peterson or Maidana employing a more refined kind of pressure to Khan than what Ortiz approached his fight with to be honest. If anything I thought a fairly faded Morales and a decent but not amazing Kotelnik made Maidana approach look the more limited.

I agree with you that Ortiz is pretty open. More so than Peterson anyway. Not sure Khan has the power to really finish him though. I could him envisage Khan flooring him by catching him off balance of the way in but I dont know if he has the power or even the tactical ability to keep Ortiz off him who would surely just keep backing him up to the ropes where Khan is incredibly vulnerable. Ortiz has his weakenesses for sure and I would fancy a Martinez/Marquez style fighter to really dismantly him but Khan has his own weaknesses which I think are particularly vunerable to Ortiz style.

azania wrote:Peterson and to a lesser extent Maidana gave Khan angles he couldn't cope with. Ortiz (and Berto) come forward in straight lines. Ortiz in particular is poor defensively, no head movement and a dodgy chin. Plus khan is a very fast starter. Ortiz won't cope with his speed. If it goes past 3 rounds then its anybody's fight. I doubt it will.

What!!! How can you say maidana gives angles and Ortiz doesn't. True Ortiz ain't great but come on, he is a lot better than maidana. Maidana is probably the crudest fighter in the sport today. Doesn't throw jabs, loops his right hand, is a lot slower. Ortiz is also a much better pressure fighter than Peterson. Peterson didnt really move his head and hardly came at angles. He just walked him into a corner and worked the body but didn't have the power. Look at some of the shots Ortiz threw vs berto, peterson and maidana and you can see that he throws good angles and gets his opponents into a corner more than Peterson can.

Maidana gave Khan angles he couldn't deal with? He charged forward in straight lines throwing wild hayemakers, the pressure he applied wasn't nearly as effective as Ortiz's against Berto, lets be honest here Berto beats everyone that Khan has.

and look at his results against their common foes. One loss and one draw. Khan arguably won both fights and I had peterson winning the ortiz fight. I'd back peterson to win a rematch with khan but back Khan to beat Ortiz. Maidana was crude but effective. Very effective against Ortiz. The Berto win has made people view Ortiz differently because the fight was exciting and not much was expected of him. But as a pressure and high calibre pressure fighter, Ortiz is lacking.

Mentally he's weak and I'm not saying that due to the MM fight, but for his reaction after the Mayweather fight. He seemed to be happy to collect a paycheck. Plus the headbutt leaves many question marks. Once he faces Khan's speed, he'll capitulate.

If we're going to dismiss Ortiz's win over Berto then we must dismiss all over Maidana and Petersons win too, he proved himself in that fight as a mentally weak fighter would have quit but he didn't.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Maidana gave Khan angles he couldn't deal with? He charged forward in straight lines throwing wild hayemakers, the pressure he applied wasn't nearly as effective as Ortiz's against Berto, lets be honest here Berto beats everyone that Khan has.

We're talking about Maidana here and not Rocky.

As for Berto, was never sold on him. Got gifted a decision against a former Hatton victim. He was a loss waiting to happen.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:If we're going to dismiss Ortiz's win over Berto then we must dismiss all over Maidana and Petersons win too, he proved himself in that fight as a mentally weak fighter would have quit but he didn't.

Who is dismissing the win over Berto? And I specifically said a couple of posts ago that me saying he is mentally weak doesn't include the MM fight.

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Maidana gave Khan angles he couldn't deal with? He charged forward in straight lines throwing wild hayemakers, the pressure he applied wasn't nearly as effective as Ortiz's against Berto, lets be honest here Berto beats everyone that Khan has.

We're talking about Maidana here and not Rocky.

As for Berto, was never sold on him. Got gifted a decision against a former Hatton victim. He was a loss waiting to happen.

Obsessed much?

Collazo was a top level southpaw operator, he should also have got the decision against Hatton, he was no easy fighter to beat.