State of Welsh regional rugby: discussed on tv

It'll be discussed on tv on Tuesday 7 Feb, 10:35 pm, BBC1 Wales:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01bs438

And no doubt it will be all doom and gloom it makes good TV

If it's a no holds barred, warts an' all discussion I would welcome it.

From the advert it is a doom and gloom, if players leave then we are doomed, if we don't win competitions we are doomed, if crowds don't pick up were doomed. The best clip on the advert is someone claiming that there are a whole generation of fans that just don't buy into regional rugby and that is why attendances are down. The Scarlets gates are up by something like 18% this season, we had 8,100+ for a LV= match. But I have a feeling the show will be all doom and gloom.

I know very little (nothing) about Welsh rugby politics other than what is posted on here, but in terms of the attendances, how have the atttendances held up at the next level down, the clubs ? Is there a sustainable level there or a will to make it so ?Or is the mindset such that people don't go to region games but then won't go to club games to see "lesser" quality platers so therefore don't go any games at all ?

This is not a WUM, I'd genuinely like to know, as the regional system appears to be producing good players for the national side but not support for the players at club level.

IL - How long have you got? The set up of Regional rugby in Wales is one of those subjects that won't really ever be resolved. Some people hate it, some love it, some have just accepted it. I attend both Dragons matches and Newport RFC matches (Newport being the next level down). The Dragons average about 5,000 per game, not sure on the exact figures of Newport RFC but it must be around 500 - 1000 people.

In a nut shell...
Regional rugby as a whole was a necessity as the WRU couldn't run the game professionally with the old league system in place. However the way it was set up caused a lot of controversy and in fighting and we ended up with the 4 teams we have now. It has split a lot of the support and because they are manufactured franchises people find it harder to relate to them as they would a traditional club. It will take a few generations to adapt but kids will grow up knowing the new system and not the old.

Is it sustainable - at present no but the WRU are clever in marketing the national game thus using these profits to provide all levels of rugby with funding. It may always be like this because I can't see how Welsh premiership teams could survive on their own.

The whole subject is enough to give you a headache.

Thanks for that - sounds harder to solve than the Middle East

Irish Londoner wrote:Thanks for that - sounds harder to solve than the Middle East

As in Gwent?

Well did the programme uncover or state anything intresting?

Wales loves bad news. When the national side is doing well they dig up more dirt on the clubs/regions and so on so forth.

I think its on tonight Kingshu... But if I was a betting man the main message will be that were are DOOMED!

oh right so it is, doesn't matter I don't get BBC wales, (not a Wales of regions fan) but I do enjoy the infighting that regions and WRU constantly are at.

If I didn't follow what happens at the regions, I'd have got bored of 606 a long time ago. Everyone has knows how to improve the regions, but nobodys ideas are ever the same and nobody agrees. Its the subject anyone can have an opinion on because it is never right.

Personally I think the regions were formed so badly at the start, so we'd have something to talk about for the next 50 years. Very kind of the WRU, but from what I hear they're very good at suppling talking points for all of us.

regionalism needs a radicle overhaul. in fact, regionalisms hasent really started yet.

it was botched at the beginging. with the current buisness review underway we have an oportunity put that right.

i would. cancel the ospreys and the cardiff blues. it is hard on the ospreys as they were the first to embrace regionalism by dropping neath-swansea from their name. the blues deserve it. they never once contemplated dropping the cardiff tag, and they dont even have their own ground.

dragons would have to immediatly drop newport from their name (if i was restructuring)

i would also set up 2 new regions. a north wales development region in the mold of connacht. and i would set up a valleys and vale region, a reincarnation of the celtic warriors.

Don't blame the WRU. The clubs messed the whole thing up.

I think people get a little bit sensitive about the names. I don't really see a problem with Cardiff Blues since they play in Cardiff afterall!

dogtooth wrote:regionalism needs a radicle overhaul. in fact, regionalisms hasent really started yet.

it was botched at the beginging. with the current buisness review underway we have an oportunity put that right.

i would. cancel the ospreys and the cardiff blues. it is hard on the ospreys as they were the first to embrace regionalism by dropping neath-swansea from their name. the blues deserve it. they never once contemplated dropping the cardiff tag, and they dont even have their own ground.

dragons would have to immediatly drop newport from their name (if i was restructuring)

i would also set up 2 new regions. a north wales development region in the mold of connacht. and i would set up a valleys and vale region, a reincarnation of the celtic warriors.

The majority of people in the Vale are all blues supporters anyway. It would be quite hard having a valleys and vale region, as the blues would be right in the middle of it.

There is nothing wrong with regionalism, if anything we changed to much too soon.

One of the biggest errors I feel was to keep the rebranded clubs alive in their old format. for example all that has happened in keeping Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Llanelli rfc alive is to divide the audience.

It makes sense to keep Ebbw Vale, Neath, Pontypridd, Bridgend alive Because they dont have games in their towns, but the clubs and regions do some kind of joint season ticket you basically have 2 rugby teams competing for the same local fans.

Many Swansea fans wont go to the Ospreys because their not Swansea, and those Swansea fans can still see Swansea because they still play the same games they played before regionalism.

Attendences in the Welsh Premiership are up this season, regions are down. Go to a Premiership games and you will hear many fans disussing why they don't go to regions.

Premiership rugby is normally £10 admittance which is the same as clubs before regionalism. Regions are £20-25 for an adult, and catering companies have the contracts in the newly build stadiums and the prices are disgusting, I think I paid £3.80 for a small bottle of coke and a kit kat!
In a shop it would cost about £1.50 so it gives you an idea.

Throw in £5-6 parking for your car at regions where as at most clubs it is free and you can see cost is a big factor.

Kingshu wrote:Well did the programme uncover or state anything intresting?

think my timings right so use this today!

It was basically the same old tosh that we have on here. Valleys need they're own region. If the players leave we are in the poopy. We need to get fans through the turnstyles. Oh and the regions are all losing money hand over fist and will shutdown as soon as the money men have enough.

Yeah nothing new really came out of it, the 'different levels' of funding quote may get a few heads turning but there was nothing new on it.

Bedford - did you just get the feeling that it was pretty much a case of we have nothing to show on tv during this slot, no real news to make, lets put on a rugby show. I really think it was more or less the general regional back biting we end up with on here (especially with some of teh 'disenfranchised' folk)

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford - did you just get the feeling that it was pretty much a case of we have nothing to show on tv during this slot, no real news to make, lets put on a rugby show. I really think it was more or less the general regional back biting we end up with on here (especially with some of teh 'disenfranchised' folk)

Pretty much SS yeah, I did say on the Week in Week Out thread that there's nothing stopping people supporting their local Semi Pro side and their Region, they don't have to 'choose' between one of the other like om were saying.

As for the Nelson RFC, bit well I can't comment on Nelson themselves but I know for a fcat that the Dragons go up and around local clubs in Ebbw and have had the RTBs Juniors/minis down at Dave as flag bearers on numerous occasions and the young kids love it.

I was really disappointed with the program to be honest, it was rubbish and totally at odds with the facts.

The Bridgend supporters for example must be living in cloud cookoo land, and the program based their experiences on 2004!
The wife was complaining about having to park the car, and catch buses and the costs £500+ for a season ticket. As well as the husband not being able to get a drink before the game.

Firstly I sit on the half way line 6 rows up and my season ticket costs £160 for 17 games and I had a jersey thrown in free.
Secondly car parking is EASY at the Liberty, if you don't park in the stadium itself there is 2 car parks across the road, which always has spaces. there is no need to catch buses and mess about like that.
Finally whilst the Riverside is only for season ticket holders, you can get drinks in Harvester and outside in the tent area.

Finally they are not disenfrancised fans they still go and see Bridgend so they are still rugby fans they just made a choice not to drive to Swansea to see the Ospreys and choose to stay local.

Alyn,

Aren't there also free bus runs from the City Centre out there on match days?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Alyn,

Aren't there also free bus runs from the City Centre out there on match days?

I cant confirm either way I'm afraid, all I can say is I'm on the very edge of what the Ospreys call Ospreylia and can only say it's easy to park my car and has never been any kind of a problem.

The only bad part of the travelling is on Friday nights you can catch the back end of the peak traffic and it can take 40 minutes to do a 5-10 minute drive which is a pain in the backside. Other than that supporting the Ospreys is easy.

AlynDavies wrote:
Firstly I sit on the half way line 6 rows up and my season ticket costs £160 for 17 games and I had a jersey thrown in free.

That's an amazingly good deal. Why so cheap and is that how the O's manage to shift so many jerseys?

My season ticket for the Scarlets was £160 too. You can get some great deals at all the regions, if you can be bothered to look.

Alyn, facts are troublesome things aren't they, their ST were for 2005/6 season not 2004, the tent wasn't open then and yes you could buy beer in the Harvester what the price was I don't know. For the main stand the ST was aprox. £250, they altered the paying areas in about 2008 with free youngsters added on, as far as I know to the following poster there has NEVER been FREE buses from the town centre, but I could be mistaken on this.
I thought the programme was pretty enlightening especially the Marketing Lady a lot more could be done even though they have started with more staff and players going out into Ospreylia.

I thought it was a decent programme.

The idea about different fundingh models is an interesting one -- where some regions could get more than others in total. That makes sense and should already be the case. In much the same way that English clubs are compensated by the RFU when players are called up to the national squad, the regions should be compensated for each player called up to the squad. Therefore, there could be a basic level of funding for each region, and a variable top-up (depending on the number of players) for the regions who produce players for the national team.

The comments about marketing were interesting.

Wayne,

I wasn't sure but I thought there was like a park an ride type service out to the ground.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne,

I wasn't sure but I thought there was like a park an ride type service out to the ground.

Bedford there was, it could still be going on, but it was from a scrap piece of ground just off J45 of the M4 and cost I believe £5, I don't know if you have been to the Liberty but across the bouncing bridge is a retail park with B&Q, Peacock Morrisons etc I parked there for 5 seasons FREE as long as you were subtle doing it, I never had any trouble parking there.

In Ireland up until about 3 years ago it was:

- Munster & Leinster
- Ulster
- Connacht

now the IRFU has changed their system so it is:

- Munster, Leinster & Ulster
- Connacht

The funding thing all depends on point of view. If your teams funding is cut its bad, but if your team benefits its great.

The programme was pointless. Couple of Bridgend randoms with no rugby knowledge talking nonsense, and nothing else new that we haven't heard repeatedly since 2003.

The WRU can do one of three things.

- let it potter along as it is.
- scrap the superclubs and revert to an amateur league, letting the international players go to England and France.
- establish fully inclusive North, South, East & West regions

Anything else, including forming a new 'valleys' club is irrelevant, money wasting, tinkering.

Mr F; as usual totally agree with your comments but the inward looking guys on here who support the existing super clubs don't give a monkey's as long as they are being funded to have easy acess to top flight rugby everybody else is a moaner.

I did not see the programme but I suspect there is nothing we don't know about.