Ulster v Dragons Friday 10th February 2012 KO 7.05pm

First topic message reminder :

So amid the Bowe signing, McLaughlin leaving and Ferris citing, its back to Pro 12 this weekend. The squad should be announced at lunch-time and I will update when that happens.

Ulster team to face Dragons, Friday 10th February 2012, Ravenhill (kick-off 7.05pm)

(15-9): A D'Arcy; C Gilroy, I Whitten, P Wallace, S Terblanche; I Humphreys, R Pienaar;
(1-8): C Black, A Kyriacou, J Afoa (capt), L Stevenson, D Tuohy, M McComish, W Faloon, R Diack;

Replacements (16-23): N Brady, P McAllister, A Macklin, T Barker, A Birch, P Marshall, N Spence, S Danielli



Dragons 25 man squad

Backs

Martyn Thomas, Jamie Smith, Aled Brew, Adam Hughes, Andy Tuilagi, Tom Riley, Ashley Smith, Lewis Robling, Jason Tovey, Joe Bedford, Wayne Evans,

Forwards

Gavin Thomas, Darren Waters, Rhys Jenkins, Hugo Ellis, Tom Brown, Jevon Groves, Adam Jones, Rob Sidoli, Phil Price, Nathan Williams, Nathan Buck, Dan Way, Steve Jones, Rhys Buckley.

Also, I am finding myself far more excited by Ulster than Ireland right now.

After that? Are you sure?

We certainly didn't play very well for large portions of the game. Yet... we won handily.

Sounds good Rory!

I actually like Spence at 12 but I'm in a minority of one!

Spence and Whitten for Ireland! SUFTUM!

Notch wrote:Rory, I have to disagree with you. The backrow was disaster area tonight.

The breakdown was dire. That's their main job. Awful. McComish was slipping off tackles all over the shop too.

That is why I said Faloon was brilliant as a link-man in attack, Diack shown skill in his try, and I thought McComish did pretty well, only noticed one missed tackle myself. Though we couldn't secure ball (like the irish game). However yet again I must point out that isn't something restricted to the backrow. Whoever is there, they must hit the ruck with aggression and secure it. You don't sit and wait for a back row to do it (though, a good flanker/8 will be in the right places at the right time), you get in there and you knock them off the park. That is how you get quick recycled ball.

Notch wrote:After that? Are you sure?

We certainly didn't play very well for large portions of the game. Yet... we won handily.

Yep. I don't think we played well either, but I still find myself getting more excited for Ulster than Ireland. That Pienaar try, just made me think how long it has been since Ireland has produced a try anywhere near to that sort of quality. Leinster do that sort of thing weekly, playing a broad offloading game. Ulster do it in patches. Ireland don't do it.

Notch,

I thought it looked like Pienaar really wanted to go for the lineout but was told by Afoa to take the points. He didn't look to happy about it to me!

It was pure class. A try that would grace any game.

Most of the game was pretty terrible though! Dragons played side to side, lateral, no threat- the amount of possession and territory they had, they might have out us to the sword on a different night! Our defence was very suspect, a lot of soft yards conceded.

We weren't great I definitely agree, but we actually tried to attack unlike Ireland. Whitten was pretty poor in defence I felt, but I put this down to the same reason McFadden is bad at defending at 13. It is a harder position to defend from, and position yourself properly. No idea why he was 13 and Spence was 12.

Whitten was poor all round, positions don't come into it- compare how he defended tonight at 13 compared to how he did in Clermont. Very rusty.

Spence was great though. I imagine the only reason for the change is Whitten was training at 13 all week. Easier for Spence to slot in without disrupting the backline too much.

Apparently they only had 20 mins notice that Wallace was needed in France so not much time to rejig.

That is understandable then! When can we expect to see Luke Marshall get himself a game?

I had my picture taken with young Luke at the Tigers match!

Whenever he starts playing like he merits it. He's had a nightmare season, really struggled with injury and has no form to speak of.

12 or 13, its not a big deal... Wales play with two 12's, we're obsessed that these are radically different positions, good players should be able to move around the 3/4s.

I played in all the backline positions bar fly half and was equally bad in all of them .....

Yeah but he can't exactly show any form unless he gets a go. Hope he gets some time coming off the bench even. I do feel like he is behind Hanrahan now in terms of the next (good) irish 12 though. Hanrahan is playing brilliantly.

He was very poor for the Ravens there, he's struggled to shine at club level- coaches can't pick him on that basis.

A few points....

Rodders/rory - I thought spence was excellent.da masco Was worse than Pearson. For the first yellow it seemed to me Tuohy made a tackle, Faloon came in and played for the ball and he binned Faloon for not rolling away in the tackle? It was Pearson esque. He shouldn't get another game based on that. I don't know who got motm but Diack was very poor, Tuohy was good, spence was good but terblanche was my motm. I genuinely hope he is involved next year

roddersm wrote:12 or 13, its not a big deal... Wales play with two 12's, we're obsessed that these are radically different positions, good players should be able to move around the 3/4s.

I played in all the backline positions bar fly half and was equally bad in all of them .....

Yeah but some people are better with space and some people are better at creating it for others.. And there you have your 12 and 13. Wales play a pretty one dimensional game tbh. Roberts just runs at the midfield and hopefully gets through, then the ball is quickly recycled out to their other big runners. They play a very simple game, not too inspiring. Thing is, it's working (against us at least). I still would rather have a bit of creativity and pace in the midfield than two big guys.

It was Tuohy got MOTM.

I've just been telling them about Faloons yellow. Mind you it worked out okay for us keeping Tuohy.

Notch wrote:He was very poor for the Ravens there, he's struggled to shine at club level- coaches can't pick him on that basis.

When did he play for the ravens? Any highlights/links?

Pienaar, Terblanche, Spence and Afoa all emerged with credit. Stevenson and Tuohy were good too- our scrum and lineout were very good considering Muller, Best and Court were missing. Pienaar would have been man of the match. McComish, Faloon, Diack and Whitten were poor. Everybody else was somewhere in between!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Notch wrote:He was very poor for the Ravens there, he's struggled to shine at club level- coaches can't pick him on that basis.

When did he play for the ravens? Any highlights/links?

Against Munster there recently.

That kind of sucks to hear. Hope he can get himself back on track.

Rory rugby is a simple game, its about getting across the gainline and Wales do it exceptionally well right now.

Roberts and Davies have plenty of pace and skill as well as size and strength.

Everyone has their best position but in non specialist positions like the 3/4s players should be interchangable.

MrsP wrote:It was Tuohy got MOTM.

I've just been telling them about Faloons yellow. Mind you it worked out okay for us keeping Tuohy.

It worked out ok except he gave the penalty for not rolling away (Tuohy did in fairness). One was wearing a White scrum cap the other had brown hair. How you get it. That badly wrong I don't know. Saw little of the second yellow but I thought whitten must have been linford Christie to do it

Mm I definitely wouldn't say Roberts has skills Rodders to be honest. He is a pretty one dimensional player, though he does it very well. Davies I think is a good player though.

roddersm wrote:Rory rugby is a simple game, its about getting across the gainline and Wales do it exceptionally well right now.

Roberts and Davies have plenty of pace and skill as well as size and strength.

Everyone has their best position but in non specialist positions like the 3/4s players should be interchangable.

It helps when you have carte Blanche at the breakdown. North was the difference in the end against Ireland but it was well worked. Tonight the dragons were given thar same leeway but weren't good enough to use it. That 2nd try was a thing of beauty.

I think Roberts is the best inside centre in the world right now Rory. Hes pretty much unstoppable on the crash ball and has a great short passing and offloading game.

I don't think he's one dimensional in the sightest.

I think that was what Whitten was hoping the ref would think too but it was him on the outside of that ruck alright and it did look like his mit knocked the ball out.

Yeah the ref sent the wrong one off for the first yellow but that yellow was coming.

He also pinged "15 White" for not rolling away about 5 mins after Adam Darcy was replaced which was interesting too.

He runs the ball at the opposition and more often than not gets through. That is why he is good. He is a pretty average passer/offloader. I do not think he is anywhere near the same class as the likes of Nonu. He just suits the type of game that Wales play. I think he would look pretty average if he played for someone like France. Definitely not the sort of player that would suit their game.

Standulstermen wrote:
It helps when you have carte Blanche at the breakdown. North was the difference in the end against Ireland but it was well worked. Tonight the dragons were given thar same leeway but weren't good enough to use it. That 2nd try was a thing of beauty.

I thought Ireland shaded the breakdown. North and Davies were the difference stand but that is because Wales had so many big strike runners that it was very different to defend against. Thats why Ireland were standing off in defence and Philips had a field day.

On another issue when brew lifted d'arcy over the touchline in the first half. Can anyone explain what was different to when ferris did Evans. It was in front of me and it seemed obvious (not that I agree it was a penalty let alone a yellow) but by god it was technically worse on first viewing.

Cheers mrs p. So whitten was deserved, Tuohy/gallons certainly wasn't and should have been a penalty the other way. Gilroy impressed again for me

Post-game thinkings:

Very slapdash, although I suppose that's to be expected with Paddy called up at such short notice. Rusty. Every player missing - Court, Best, Muller, Ferris, Henry, Wannenberg, Wallace and Cave are the best in their positions, and it showed - that's over half the team.

Afoa is a poor captain - and that's leaving aside the option to kick for the posts in the last three minutes. I thought he offered no leadership, no direction. We were getting pinged off the park and he seemed content to roll his eyes.

Tuohy will get the plaudits for a very good performance, including runnng the lineout, but I think Stevenson is a real rock. Ferocious work ethic - tackle, try to ruck over ball, hard yards. Very under-rated in my opinion. Spence very good (can we do away with the lazy assumption he can't pass or offload, please? He's not Sonny Bill Williams, but he won't kill the ball if he's supported). Gilroy excellent with little possession. Whitten and D'Arcy poor. Terblanche good, and isn't it nice to see someone play with a grin on their face? Masrhall conitnues to pick up the pace (and box kick well). Birch looks pretty good. On Spence's shoulder for the last try just like a good linking seven should be. Only Diack, of all our backrows, would have had the hands to score his try. And then - AWOL.

And that second try -how many players were involved in that?

I think its a very encouraging sign that we can not play particularly well and get a bonus point win, especially missing mullets leadership. I think afoa was the only person in the ground who thought we should take the 3 with 3 to go. Think the dragons bailed him out a bit by coffing up possession, thought birch was going to get there as well!

17 Ulster players got their hands on the ball there Don. They went and threw it about on the bench for a bit and all.

re. the three points. short sightedly yea, a bonus point is desirable, but in terms of a more general game plane over an entire season a huge part of the way the table looks is based on who was allowed to get points whilst losing. What is a team managed to finish two points clear of us and we gave them two losing bonus points. Its just professionalism.

In saying that, it does seem like he thought there was ten minutes left rather than three. Worked out nicely though.

I actually thought Diack was poor despite his try (especially first 15 minutes), and McComish and Stevensen werent great, nor was Whitten.

Terblanche is ROCK SOLID definsively. D'arcy again showed why its so sad we can't find a regular starting position for him, and Spence was great. What strength from Gilroy!

Very happy to get a bonus point win during six nations with our captain out!

At the time and in the heat of battle I agreed with Afoa to take the kick. There were nearly four minutes left - still time for the Dragons to get two scores. With only 14 men on the pitch I could understand that Ulster didn't want to give the Dragons any hope and it killed their spirit.

Crucially taking the kick meant they needed to score a try to get a bonus point and in hindsight getting them to play loose was the easiest way to break through them. While they still had the chance of dropping a goal they had a realistic chance of getting a point from the game.

I can understand Afoa's decision at the end but he has a lot to learn as a captain. It might be boring but teams that take points on offer usually end up higher in the table than teams who go for broke. e.g. at the end of the first half Ulster should have kicked a D/G when they had the chance and gone in 9 points up. The panic at the start of the 2nd half would have been easier to cope with and the bonus point would have been secured long before the last minute.

MrsP wrote:Notch,

I thought it looked like Pienaar really wanted to go for the lineout but was told by Afoa to take the points. He didn't look to happy about it to me!

Yep - In fact after being told by Afoa to go for the posts, Pienaar seemed to ignore him and put his right foot forward as though going for the corner, then Afoa came back over and put his foot down.

Agreed Notch I thought the backrow was awful.

McCormish missed more tackles than Ferris has missed in his career - he is hopeless.
Diack, the try aside, is a big whoose and a complete waste of space.

Sorry any new coach should be looking to ship these two out. I would have Conor Joyce on a development contract and get McCromish out of the squad this summer. We have 1 more backrower next year in Wilson anyway.

Stevenson I thought was outstanding as was Spence.
Spence played 12 because all week we have being practising with Whitten at 13.
Terblanche was superb as well

Humph was sub standard again and I thought Gilroy had a mare.

Very rusty performance, lacking a number of key players but ok given the glaring weaknesses in the back row and also given, yet again, a joke ref. Terrible decision to go for 3 points 3 mins from the end - we just got lucky.
Both Leinster and Munster woudl have kicked for the corner no question - Pienaer clearly disagreed with the decision. In a way thogh can't blame Afoa - first game as captain and he didn't want it to be a home defeat against Dragons and I can understand that.

It really does show what a poor team Dragons are though.

I just watched the Diack score and you know running at full tilt with the ball he looks like the perfect back row. Big, athletic, pacy with good hands. He is shockingly poor when it comes to physicality though.

In hindsight I thought Afoa made the right call for the 3 points.

I thought Gilroy was decent actually. If anything D'arcy was a bit meh. We need to keep terblanche involved at a coaching level IMO. He oozes class every game.

I was pleased with Tuohy. He put himself about rightly and looked very physical when carrying.

Gilroy did very well for his try, and in the build-up to Pienaars. Otherwise he was quiet but competent.

A few players were meh but think Geoff's doing Faloon a disservice lumping him in with the sub-standard McComish and Diack. Watch him during Pienaar's try again - Gilroy steps well but it is Willie's involvement that creates it. Again during the build up to Gilroy's try he is on the ball in an instant after Spence misses it from the restart, throws a brilliant offload and guess who is the first man to clear out when McComish is brought to earth? From there it was just a matter of passing across the line. Can't remember him missing any tackles and it is hardly his fault that he was carded for Tuohy's mistake.

Thought Gilroy was excellent for his try and in general attacked very well. His defence wasn't great however. He isn't as solid as he once was.

I think it is very difficult to take a lot from the breakdown because the ref was just so poor. Mcallister was pinged after making a big hit but literally he hit the ground and DaMasco had blown. Think we got a warning after that one. With that level of incompetence I find it difficult to really criticise Faloon. This wasn't about adapting either. It was clear incompetence.

The referee was absolutely appalling.. the breakdown was a complete joke. I don't think he understood have the times he blew his whistle.

Standulstermen wrote:I just watched the Diack score and you know running at full tilt with the ball he looks like the perfect back row. Big, athletic, pacy with good hands. He is shockingly poor when it comes to physicality though.

I don't know- he's a big unit. It's strange how little physical prescence he has.

He's just such a nice guy. He needs a nasty, aggressive streak! He needs to learn to love contact and love winning collisions. Start putting that bulk and pace to good use. He's an enigma, that's for sure.

He is bigger than Ferris in size actually - just goes to show that the size means nothing if you don't have the attitude to go with it.

Different people see things in a different way. Some of the above I agree with and some I don't.

I commented earlier this week that Ulster and Ireland must see Spence as a 12 . Surely last night confirmed that. Or another amazing blunder from the coaching set up?

Anyway that's not why I'm here. I just popped in to let you know there is a 30 minute programme on Downtown Radio at 12.00 Noon covering the Guinness 22 Q&A Event at the Errigle on Thursday Night. If you are interested.

According to Geoff he was at 12 last night as Whitten had been at 13 all week in training, and Wallace pulled out at the last second. Fair call in that case. I hope that he is back at 13 from next week however. I'm sure he is back infront of Whitten after last night to partner Wallace.

For me Faloon was ok but nothing special. I do agree he was considerably better than Daick and McCormish who were both totally inadequate.

Gilroy defensively made some bad choices - one penalty was down to him running when he should have passed. He let a kick go into touch which he could have collected - lost us 50 yards. There were others.

I think the reason Terblanche went to 15 was to talk to him during the game. He is used to Cave keeping him right, with Whitten and D'arcy he was lost.