England - Italy Match thread

[nathan]

First topic message reminder :

Looking forward to the game, had no idea they had that much snow. Pitch doesn't look too good!

EDIT: Got to comment on Guscutt's scarf, it's soooo bad!!

[Gibson]

Definitely underdogs going into the next three games. But clear progress and two wins. A few changes for the Welsh game and we ought to compete, at least. Flood, Tuilagi, Morgan, Dixon Parling I'd like to see.

Very interested to see what Lancaster will do.

To be fair, i would make England evens with those 5 starting, especially at home.

Man! I thought it was in Cardiff. Its at Twickers. Ok, game on. Yes if they bring those 5 in. Its 50-50.

Im orf out in de freezin cold to Cocos, Billy. I read you cant make it man. Shame. Trying hard to Believe... but.

Have a good night yall!

Allez les Verts!

[gowales]

I like how the players conduct themselves on the pitch too. They don't seem to be getting into the pushy stuff even when being provoked from Parisse tapping Hartley, Lee Jones tapping Youngs and after the scrums.

[kingjohn7]

Definitely underdogs going into the next three games. But clear progress and two wins. A few changes for the Welsh game and we ought to compete, at least. Flood, Tuilagi, Morgan, Dixon Parling I'd like to see.

Very interested to see what Lancaster will do.

To be fair, i would make England evens with those 5 starting, especially at home.

Have to agree, whilst I think England have played pretty pony today and last week they still won & away from home aswell. Scotland and Italy always make life tough, think Wales will have a big test tomorrow. Flood and Tuilagi are going to improve that backline no end(imo). At the moment they look ok but not going to create a try if their lives depended on it. Although right at the start of the game they had a really nice bit of play.

[eirebilly]

Definitely underdogs going into the next three games. But clear progress and two wins. A few changes for the Welsh game and we ought to compete, at least. Flood, Tuilagi, Morgan, Dixon Parling I'd like to see.

Very interested to see what Lancaster will do.

To be fair, i would make England evens with those 5 starting, especially at home.

Man! I thought it was in Cardiff. Its at Twickers. Ok, game on. Yes if they bring those 5 in. Its 50-50.

Im orf out in de freezin cold to Cocos, Billy. I read you cant make it man. Shame. Trying hard to Believe... but.

Have a good night yall!

Allez les Verts!

Yeah mate, neighbours had a death in the family so i have the kids tonight

Have a good one and have a for me mate

[Cowshot]

It also occurs to me that if the France/Ireland game is cancelled the 6Ns are effectively extended for another weekend (joy!) AND the BBC has nothing to talk about except the England Italy game. Joy again!

[ChequeredJersey]

It's going ahead

[eirebilly]

It's going ahead

Yep thats the buzz

[TycroesOsprey]

Definitely underdogs going into the next three games. But clear progress and two wins. A few changes for the Welsh game and we ought to compete, at least. Flood, Tuilagi, Morgan, Dixon Parling I'd like to see.

Very interested to see what Lancaster will do.

To be fair, i would make England evens with those 5 starting, especially at home.

Have to agree, whilst I think England have played pretty pony today and last week they still won & away from home aswell. Scotland and Italy always make life tough, think Wales will have a big test tomorrow. Flood and Tuilagi are going to improve that backline no end(imo). At the moment they look ok but not going to create a try if their lives depended on it. Although right at the start of the game they had a really nice bit of play.

Will Lancaster have the cahoonies to make five changes to a winning side. If Manu comes in it means Farrell will have to shift to 12 as I cant see him being dropped and his kicking has been excellent. If on top of that Flood, Dixon and Morgan start that will mean your 8,9,10,12 and 13 are all different and two are coming back from injury. That would be a big call and teh discontiunuity could seriously disrupt the team.

[Notch]

It also occurs to me that if the France/Ireland game is cancelled the 6Ns are effectively extended for another weekend (joy!) AND the BBC has nothing to talk about except the England Italy game. Joy again!

The game would be played on March the 2nd.

[Cowshot]

It's going ahead

Oh. Ok, well, I'll put up with it.

Will Lancaster have the cahoonies to make five changes to a winning side. If Manu comes in it means Farrell will have to shift to 12 as I cant see him being dropped and his kicking has been excellent. If on top of that Flood, Dixon and Morgan start that will mean your 8,9,10,12 and 13 are all different and two are coming back from injury. That would be a big call and teh discontiunuity could seriously disrupt the team.

You have a point. But Dickson, Parling and Morgan I'd like to see start. Seems harsh to drop Chargedown after he's scored all our tries, but it might be the right thing to do, and BB and OF have done pretty well so far.

[kingjohn7]

Definitely underdogs going into the next three games. But clear progress and two wins. A few changes for the Welsh game and we ought to compete, at least. Flood, Tuilagi, Morgan, Dixon Parling I'd like to see.

Very interested to see what Lancaster will do.

To be fair, i would make England evens with those 5 starting, especially at home.

Have to agree, whilst I think England have played pretty pony today and last week they still won & away from home aswell. Scotland and Italy always make life tough, think Wales will have a big test tomorrow. Flood and Tuilagi are going to improve that backline no end(imo). At the moment they look ok but not going to create a try if their lives depended on it. Although right at the start of the game they had a really nice bit of play.

Will Lancaster have the cahoonies to make five changes to a winning side. If Manu comes in it means Farrell will have to shift to 12 as I cant see him being dropped and his kicking has been excellent. If on top of that Flood, Dixon and Morgan start that will mean your 8,9,10,12 and 13 are all different and two are coming back from injury. That would be a big call and teh discontiunuity could seriously disrupt the team.

Yeah maybe your right, but I dont think continuity is there at the moment anyway. The positives havnt really been in playing well(not meant as an insult) but in team spirit, hard work and nerve. Perhaps he doesnt need to make all the changes in starting 15 but a mixture with the bench coming on at some point.

[TycroesOsprey]

Barritt would also be harshly done to if he lost out on a place as I think he is slowly growing into the inside centre role. The problem in selection is the halfbacks and to change or not to change. A brand new pairing of Dixon and Flood will take time to settle and time is not somthing they will have much of. I would expect teh welsh to really target the 9/10/12 axis with their rush defence.

[eirebilly]

It would be seriously harsh to drop Barrit as he has played very well.

[ChequeredJersey]

Also does anyone else find it nearly impossible to differentiate Robshaw and Croft? (and to a lesser degree Farrell and Strettle)

[kingjohn7]

Well to be fair even if they put all of them on at the same time, as long as we got George they got no chance

[majesticimperialman]

I think Morgan as to start against Wales...Ben Youngs must surely lose his place in the starting line up, Lee Dickson must now be first choice against Wales.

Will Flood, Tualagi, Lawes, force them selves back into the squad for the Wales game? Will have to wait and see.

[Cari]

Also does anyone else find it nearly impossible to differentiate Robshaw and Croft? (and to a lesser degree Farrell and Strettle)

No, I'd bang one and not the other

Seriously, I see the resemblance between Croft and Robshaw.

[ChequeredJersey]

Also does anyone else find it nearly impossible to differentiate Robshaw and Croft? (and to a lesser degree Farrell and Strettle)

No, I'd bang one and not the other

Seriously, I see the resemblance between Croft and Robshaw.

Hmm, which one?

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Distincly less than impressed by England still.

3 halves of rugby before than managed a single line break, its not pretty. They won this game because Italy have no depth on the bench, and like France had nothing late in the game. If anyone ever calls Hodgson flakey they should take a look at that Saffer fullback lad, jeepers...guess he wont be the new halfpenny.
Terrible game form Foden, but like ashton and Youngs we know these guys can do better.
Morgan carried the ball almost as far as the rest of the pack put together. If that doesnt get him a start in the next game I dont know what will.
For all the extra possession they had and aggressive intent they showed England still werent making ground, backs or forwards. Once again they relied on opposition mistakes. The lack of organisation at times really shows through.
Positive notes were the way this time they took a lift from the try and actually put in ten minutes of decent rugby. Farrell put in a good goal kicking performance and looked a bit less out of his depth this week. The team is starting to show signs of getting better, theres still a few players to come in too so whilst the results may get worse for a while the performances have the potential to get better.
England are lucky to have 2 wins, they now have 3 chances to make it 3 which would be a decent return given the circumstances and fixtures.

Still on the fence with this team. But Lancaster needs to spend less time worrying about whats on the stereo and get the players drilled and organised, and stop Foden form thinking hes James Hook.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Also does anyone else find it nearly impossible to differentiate Robshaw and Croft? (and to a lesser degree Farrell and Strettle)

No, I'd bang one and not the other

Seriously, I see the resemblance between Croft and Robshaw.

Robshaw looks like Croft after being slapped with a massive plaice. The commentators and stattos have a mare with it.
You can usually tell the difference between Farrell and Strettle because one of them gets the ball and kicks it away before the other one can get near it.

[ChequeredJersey]

Also does anyone else find it nearly impossible to differentiate Robshaw and Croft? (and to a lesser degree Farrell and Strettle)

No, I'd bang one and not the other

Seriously, I see the resemblance between Croft and Robshaw.

Robshaw looks like Croft after being slapped with a massive plaice. The commentators and stattos have a mare with it.
You can usually tell the difference between Farrell and Strettle because one of them gets the ball and kicks it away before the other one can get near it.

[thomh]

Also does anyone else find it nearly impossible to differentiate Robshaw and Croft? (and to a lesser degree Farrell and Strettle)

Made worse by the stupid hollowed out numbers our current kit has.

[niwatts]

Thank god we saw less of the aimless kicking in the second half and a bit more trust in letting our players run. A case in point would be Barritt, in the first half where we did absolutely nothing he got the ball just once, whereas in the second half he got several opportunities, made decent yardage and beat 2 defenders from our match total of 5, giving us some semblance of a midfield platform & gain.

[ChequeredJersey]

Robshaw makes 17 tackles and hard yards in his carries- he has got to play 6

[PJHolybloke]

Dickson & Morgan to start, two changes barring injuries, that'll do pig, that'll do.

[sportform]

England get another win and after all a win is a win. It wasn't a great performance but it was in difficult conditions and the new players have got another game under their belt.

The next game at home to Wales will be tougher again but England should benefit from home advantage. I don't think having an interim manager helps anyone though.

[mystiroakey]

a win is a win is a win-" suck a boiled egg if you dont like it

[bedfordwelsh]

First off Well Done England. It wasn't pretty and again its more a case of the other side lost and England didn't have a to do a lot in the end to win it.

BUT, its 2 from 2 which for a young side is crucial and both away fom home, I think other sides such as Scotland and even Wales 18 months ago would have lost that match but the guys dug in and got the result.

Some say that the Aviva encourages negativity becasue of fear of relegation and fear to lose but that might be what have got them the last two wins because they know how to dog out victories.

Still think the centre pairing is not right and they need Tuilagi back but Farrell is a gem as a kicker and the discipline on the whole is 150% better than it was.

So Well Done England if we can win today then will lok forward to Twickers in few weeks.

[eirebilly]

I am still quite cranky at pundits and posters who have said that Hodgsons chargedowns were lucky. You would expect that experienced pundits would actually acknowledge the skill in reading the game, the speed in which it takes to get there and finally the control it takes to touch down.

Sad really but hey ho.

[bedfordwelsh]

eire,

You can't fault Charlie but there is always an element of luck in charge downsbecause of the bounce, but right place right time and all that.

Who would have thought two weeks in a row and Hodgson scores.

[eirebilly]

There is that element of luck with the bounce, yes. There is absolutely no element of luck in getting there and doing it. Its that which i wish pundits and some posters, would understand.

In both games England were on the back foot and loosing until Hodgson did that and really got the English tails up.

[majesticimperialman]

With regards to the game yesterday, i have been thinking about this since yesterday, If Italy did not take off Burton their fly half, England would of lost yesterday because England would have been 2 penatlties down.

But in all said and done England did very well, to win away from home for the second time in two weeks.

[bedfordwelsh]

Yeah that decision does seem to have cost them maj and it was a strange one as he was taken off immediately after slotting a penalty.

[eirebilly]

Maj, you cant say that really. Sure Burton may have kicked the first penalty but that then would have changed the dynamics of the game and England may not have given away the second penalty.

For me, the biggest mistakethat Italy made was going for the second penalty, i would have put it into the corner and gone for the try as England were under alot of pressure at the time.

[mystiroakey]

i only saw the second half, and i thought england played well. Yeah its only italy so we cant measure to much against the win. However typical england really if they were shocking first half(which seems the case)- they only seem to play when the score line is against them- like france world cup(the only time england played well thoughtout the tourny).

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I am still quite cranky at pundits and posters who have said that Hodgsons chargedowns were lucky. You would expect that experienced pundits would actually acknowledge the skill in reading the game, the speed in which it takes to get there and finally the control it takes to touch down.

Sad really but hey ho.

To be fair LOL made a big thing on the BBC commentary about how going back a decade Phil Larder used to get Hodgosn practising that, and that he still drills it with Saracens. Executing and taking advantage of the chances presented takes skill no question. But to be presented two chances in two games, and to get the right richochet, theres an element of luck and the other team self destructing to give that. Same for the two Italian tries in a way though. Both came from handling errors by England, but created by pressure from Italy ( the kick throughs which till then looked like the worst of Dan Parks, and the defensive line pressing when Foden counter attacked).
It wasnt a good game for either side. The real seperation was the quality of goal kicking, and farrell really deserves praise for that. Not ideal conditions and how often have we seen Flood and Wilko flump in that area recently? Maybe if Italy had a bench England wouldve struggled to close the game out but thats why they are consistently out of the top 10 and England consistently in the top 6. England are better and have better players, even playing badly they are a better side.
On reflection I dont think either side can claim the other had the rub of the luck in this one, but England could have lost with a performance like that. Its not good enough to be struggling against Italy.

Its pretty amazing to think England have now won 12 of 15 test matches in just over a year, without ever looking great in any of them.

[bedfordwelsh]

Dare I say they have their 3 toughest games to come and whilst I never go to Twickenham confident I can't see either of Wales France or Ireland letting England off the hook as easy as Scotland and Italy did if they play as bad in the first half as they have done.

Dixon has to start at 9 and I would give Morgan a start at 8

[slartibartfast]

I am still quite cranky at pundits and posters who have said that Hodgsons chargedowns were lucky. You would expect that experienced pundits would actually acknowledge the skill in reading the game, the speed in which it takes to get there and finally the control it takes to touch down.

Sad really but hey ho.

He said it was luck himself in the Interview after the game...!?

[eirebilly]

Yeah PSW, i heard them say that Hodgson drills for chargedowns. I just think that it takes great skill to read the game and get into that position. People keep saying that its Italy's and Scotlands fault for the chargedowns, i just want to credit Hodgson for getting there to make them. In both of them he showed a pretty good turn of speed to get there.

In both matches, England had their heads down and were staring at defeat until those two individual pieces of skill turned the games around and England started to believe.

[eirebilly]

I am still quite cranky at pundits and posters who have said that Hodgsons chargedowns were lucky. You would expect that experienced pundits would actually acknowledge the skill in reading the game, the speed in which it takes to get there and finally the control it takes to touch down.

Sad really but hey ho.

He said it was luck himself in the Interview after the game...!?

Would you expect him to be all big headed and take all the credit?

[bedfordwelsh]

Its similar in some cases to an intercept try, bit of luck in there to but others are down to the player intercepting reading the play and having the nounce to anticipate it.

Charlie on two occasions now has had the nounce to try and go for the charge down which he has got, the bounce itself well thats where the luck bit comes into it.

[lostinwales]

Signs of improvements in places - spirit of the team is great but it wasnt the best display - our fluke of a try vs their 2 flukes.

Youngs asleep for most of the first half (but did make some good tackles)

Best bit was the thought that one or two of the trolls around here who probably got somewhat overexcited at the end of the first half just got to spend the second half in soggy underwear

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Signs of improvements in places - spirit of the team is great but it wasnt the best display - our fluke of a try vs their 2 flukes.

Youngs asleep for most of the first half (but did make some good tackles)

Best bit was the thought that one or two of the trolls around here who probably got somewhat overexcited at the end of the first half just got to spend the second half in soggy underwear

[mystiroakey]

"Best bit was the thought that one or two of the trolls around here who
probably got somewhat overexcited at the end of the first half just got
to spend the second half in soggy underwear"

lol wish i was there

[DaveM]

Still on the fence with this team. But Lancaster needs to spend less time worrying about whats on the stereo and get the players drilled and organised, and stop Foden form thinking hes James Hook.

Peter, I think you made your mind up about this side before the tournament started, after Lancaster offended you with his methods of team building.

I thought England played quite well in the second half. They were obviously, again, very difficult conditions but England got a grip on things this time and had plenty of possession and territory.

Very interesting selections coming up. I'm not convinced that Lancaster will feel he can drop any of Hodgson, Farrell and Barritt, which might see Tuilagi and Flood not making it any further than the bench. For me Farrell is a class above Flood as a goal-kicker.

Certainly Youngs should and will be dropped. I'd actually leave him out completely and send him back to Leicester to find some form. Morgan has earnt a start and should swap with Dowson. I'd like to see Dowson come on for Croft in the next game.

The hardest one to call in my opinion is Lawes. You can make a case for Parling starting the next game, but if I were to guess what will happen is Lawes will be on the bench, with either Palmer or Parling dropping out of the matchday squad.

[eirebilly]

I was also a little suprised when Parisse got MoTM. He had a great game as usual but i thought that Farrell deserved it. That boy was extremely cool under pressure yesterday.

[phildange]

I'm surprised nearly nobody acknowledges the English win is due to the two Italian missed penalties by the end of the game, plus one missed conversion .
I don't buy the "a win is a win" thing when the result only depends on some successfull or not kickings . Last year the Italians scored their kicks against France and won in the last minutes from a penalty . To me it's the only difference with yesterday's game .
And don't forget : 2 tries to one for Italy .

[trebellbobaggins]

Looking at it like that then. The near Italian win was just down to a couple of bits of luck due to slips on the soggy surface.

Engs win in truth was due to battling back by dominating the second half after slips had blown their good work in the first.

[eirebilly]

With all respect phildange, Englands win was not due to Italy's missed penalties. It was due to them playing much better in the second half.

After Italy scored two late try's in the first half it took a tremendous amount of charachter for England to play the way they did in the second half. A win is a win and a win in Italy is getting harder and harder these days. Full credit to England for the win

[ChequeredJersey]

I'm surprised nearly nobody acknowledges the English win is due to the two Italian missed penalties by the end of the game, plus one missed conversion .
I don't buy the "a win is a win" thing when the result only depends on some successfull or not kickings . Last year the Italians scored their kicks against France and won in the last minutes from a penalty . To me it's the only difference with yesterday's game .
And don't forget : 2 tries to one for Italy .

All true but that match is over now (and if one of those penalties had gone over you cannot predict what would have happened next. Also kicking goals is part of rugby, if they can't do that then it makes them a worse rugby team) and your own country demonstrated to us in the World Cup that you can play atrociously all tournament and then turn up when it actually matters. At the moment I will take slow progress thank you

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