England Changes for Wales Match

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I think there will be a few changes for Wales.

Most obvious is Dickson for Youngs, think that is a dead cert

Morgan impressed although only briefly, went pretty quiet after a blasting start. Dowson had a much better game and I'd be tempted to move him to 6 to accommodate Morgan, bench Croft, That said if Wood is back, maybe both Dowson and Croft will go. Depends how hard Lancaster wants people to work for the jersey.

Flood certainly gets a start if he comes through the next two weekends OK. Harsh on Hodgson our only try scorer as he may not even make the bench depending on what happens with Farrell

And here the real conundrum. Tuilagi must come in but for who. Farrell or Barrit. For me, assuming Flood plays and kicks Barrit stays and Farrell gets the bench spot, bye bye Charlie.

Lawes I think will need to work to get back in the side. For me he is not as great as people make out, Palmer certainly outplayed him at the WC and he had a much better game today.

Lastly I think Ashton is on borrowed time, but with all those changes inside him i'd probably leave things be for the next match. Oh and Hartley better watch himself IF another decent hooker starts to show.

hawalsh wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Barritt should go to 12 and Tuilagi 13

Should, but I don't think Lancaster will drop Farrell from the XV, which is a concern for me because although he's performed well with the boot and defensively, I really don't think he adds much in attack. He looks very much like a defensive, controlling FH, which is completely superfluous outside Hodgson or Flood in terms of getting the best out of our midfield & back 3.

As reliable as his kicking looks, I would have backed Hodgson or Flood to make the majority he's had and would happily trade one or two for a more attacking midfield platform with greater chance of scoring tries (or even forcing more penalty opportunities).

He's a very useful squad player, but I think he is best utilised as a starting FH for a very particular controlled game plan or as a steading FH on the bench to kick points and close a match out.

Exactly how i see it regarding Farrell

Hood83 wrote:

hawalsh wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Barritt should go to 12 and Tuilagi 13

Should, but I don't think Lancaster will drop Farrell from the XV, which is a concern for me because although he's performed well with the boot and defensively, I really don't think he adds much in attack. He looks very much like a defensive, controlling FH, which is completely superfluous outside Hodgson or Flood in terms of getting the best out of our midfield & back 3.

As reliable as his kicking looks, I would have backed Hodgson or Flood to make the majority he's had and would happily trade one or two for a more attacking midfield platform with greater chance of scoring tries (or even forcing more penalty opportunities).

He's a very useful squad player, but I think he is best utilised as a starting FH for a very particular controlled game plan or as a steading FH on the bench to kick points and close a match out.

Exactly how i see it regarding Farrell

Ditto.

If Lancaster is insistent on playing Farrell and bringing back Tuilagi, I'd probably prefer to see Farrell start at 10 than IC and drop Barritt.

Tough selection but it's going to be a tough match whoever plays! Wales simply just look a better team in almost every aspect (Pesimistic English fan by the way!).

With Rees to come back and Jones/Jenkins fit they have best front row in 6 nations. Same could be argued with their back row when Warburtons back! North injury will be a big blow for them however if unavailable. Second row with their injuries does leave a weakness though and we must target their line-out.

With that in mind I'd go for;

1.Corbisiero
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Lawes (harsh on Botha I know but Lawes offers more pressure on welsh in line-out)
5.Palmer
6.Croft (target their line-out)
7.Robshaw
8.Morgan

9.Dickson
10.Flood

11.Ashton
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi
14.Strettle
15.Foden

16.Webber
17.Stevens
18.Botha
19.Wood
20.Youngs
21.Farell
22.Sharples

For mater of argument I expect Lancaster to go with Lawes on bench and Botha starting and expect Hodgson and Farell on bench in unlikely event of them both missing out.

Tuilagi needs to be their to offer some go forward especially against the Welsh defence same goes for Morgan over Dowson. Barritt and Tuilagi will also offer a big defence against Roberts,Davies,North etc!

there will be a lot of changes I think team will be :
1corbiesro
2hartley
3cole
4lawes
5botha
6croft
7wood
8robshaw
9dickson
10farrell
11ashton
12barritt
13tuilagi
14sharples
15foden

16webber
17stevens
18palmer
19morgan
20youngs
21hodgson
22strettle

all we got to do is win the tackle collisions hit them hard they wont come back.

B91212 wrote:One area where I feel Lawes should improve is his lineout work - he's big and athletic and really should take more ball. In fact he should look to start running some lineouts - it would certainly help England's selections if he could. At Saints it's Sorenson or Day (depending on which one is playing) who call them so he doesn't really get chance to learn.

That is a great point: I recall one of the reasons always mentioned about why Louis Deacon was in Martin Johnson's squads was his line out calling. For some reason Palmer was not considered very good at that. I guess thats the difference between playing and leading? Big opportunity for Lawes.

I am actually back home this week and last. Watched the Italy-England match in a pub with my uncle just like we have done for years. My visits home are never complete without hearing my uncle say "Feckin England" at least a dozen times per match. Even in 2003 he found things to complain about.

majesticimperialman wrote:Flood certainly gets a start if he comes through the next two weekends OK. Harsh on Hodgson our only try scorer as he may not even make the bench depending on what happens with Farrell

Since Lancaster as taken over i dont think any one is a certainty to start any game. Players must earn the right, the respect to wear the shirt nowadays.

two games in and it's all changed just like that eh?!!

Nobody cares about England or their team.Everyone knows England 2012 and rugby = crap

All Wales need to do is work hard on defence and run hard and keep them backs running all angles off the ball then Foden and Ashton will be tackling each other again just like the France world cup game.

hugo124 wrote:Nobody cares about England or their team.Everyone knows England 2012 and rugby = crap

To be fair, he has a point. Everyone DOES know it

Just loving the Welsh confidence dripping out of every post, fortunately the game won't be settled by confidence, otherwise it would be all over right now.

Wales have played some excellent rugby so far, but, defensively speaking, neither Ireland nor Scotland were uber-impressive.

I expect England to put up far more resistance in that area.

There's no doubt, regardless of how well they may have played, that Wales have had the rub of the green on some fairly controversial calls from the refs.

What's the history of Wales getting the favour of the refs at Twickenham?

Italy put two tries past England and Scotland made seven clean line breaks!

So how the F can you big up that shambles you call a defence

England gifted the two tries to Italy and Scotland, who failed to score against England, popped two tries past Wales toady, unfortunately for Scotland, Poite pays about as much attention to the game as you do.

hugo124 wrote:Nobody cares about England or their team.Everyone knows England 2012 and rugby = crap

Then why come on to a thread about England?
Get back under yer bridge while we find a goat for you to harass.

So you don't concede tries you gift them!!!

You gifted Wales four tries last time we played at twickers how kind of you.

I reckon if England field all their Saffers,Kiwis and Welsh number 8 we might have a bit of a game on our hands.

The thing is at the moment there is a big difference in the two sides. Whilst England have won their first two matches and credit to them there have been obvious issues.

Englands scrum is not fearsome any more, Whilst Castrogiovanni was on it was in trouble. Wales have a first choice front row available at the moment. That means your scrum could be under some real pressure.

The lineout an area where England would hope to pressurise Wales misfired yesterday and Hartleys temperament again was questionable. Wales will have Alyn Wyn Jones and Matthew Rees back which improves the line and the scrum. That means the welsh setpiece should get parity in the lineout and have the edge in the scrum.

The backrow for Wales is finely balanced espescially with Warburton to come back in. Morgans inclusion adds a real ball carrying threat for the English but they lack a real openside and Gethin jenkins and Warburton will win turnovers. Morgan knows all about playing behind a beaten pack at regional level though so thats a plus.

The English defence so far has not been good. Five first up missed tackles against the Italians and six turnovers coughed up to four won. The italians wasted their turnover ball yesterday with Burton determined to kick at every oppurtunity. Priestland wont do that. That is at least some improvement on the sixteen tackles missed against Scotland but Italy kicked far more ball away than the Scots did or the Welsh will.

The English offence has been well non existant. only one line break against the Italians and one linebreak against the Scots. Wales pride themselevs on their defence and use it as a weapon to drive the opposition back and hopefully turnover the ball. That aggressive defence is a key part of the welsh game. Does that mean Flood plays? do you drop Farrell and have Barrit and Tuilagi in midfield to hopefully break the tackles and offload? That will curtail ball to Foden and Ashton who are your best strike runners. (Although Ashton looks off the pace at the moment)

Wales are probably going to be without North which is a major blow to their attack but Either Byrne or Hook at full back bring somthing different to the attack. Wales got three tries against the Irish and the Scots and their backline is looking good even without North.

The Welsh lineout is a weakness and needs to be sorted but Rees and Wyn Jones will do that.

At halfback Engaland are pretty much unsure of who they are going to play and that uncertainty doesnt inspire confidence. Is it Youngs and Hodgson again despite the apparent weakness of that pairing or is it Dixon and Flood? Are England really going to risk changing their 8, 9, 10, 12, and 13 for a game aghainst a welsh side that is looking settled? that many changes could easily unsettle the side and confidence is a fragile thing on a rugby pitch.

Philips and Priestland by contrast are both fixed in their positions although today Phillips got caught a couple of times by Cusiter and Priestlands tactical kicking is still not back on top form. Another two weeks will see him getting back to his best though. Is Flood in form does anyone know how hes likely to play? He can be flaky with the best of them.

England have done pretty well in winning their first two games but to beat Wales will take and almighty effort and for Wales to be way off their game. I want to point out thats not me wumming or being arrogant. I like Lancaster and I think he is building somthing very positive in the England camp. However the two sides are in totally different places in their development. Lancaster needs to be given time and he will bring this team through. At the moment Wales are too strong for England all over the park. This time next year things could be different if Lancaster gets the job fulltime. Happily I expect another round of wailing and irrationality if Wales win well and Lancasters bright new dawn will be consigned to the dustbin. As a rugby fan that would be a shame. As a welshman, well you know

I suppose on Planet View Italy worked the tries beautifully and spanked England who were lucky to come away with a win - again.

Oh and actually it was three tries and Wales still lost, honestly View, pay attention.

I'm absolutely certain all players who turn out for England are EQ and play voluntarily... good luck.

Wales will win just get used to it,because England are in dire need of bringing in some more kiwis to spark the backs into action.

This was a decent thread with good discussion until it got ruined.

I think all they need is what they will have View, Dickson and Flood, Twickenham is not a happy hunting ground for Wales is it? 3 victories in the last 30 years tells a story of it's own.

Tycroes, I don't think Wales are "too strong for England all over the park", I think they're favourites by virtue of the fact that they're in better form, but England do have plenty of strength in key areas and much will depend on key personnel being available to both teams.

I think the one area that Wales have clear superiority is the backrow, the tight fives are pretty much on a par as are the back three (ability wise not form that is) the midfield is probably one area that England could gain the upperhand if the right players are available.

I think it'll be a very close game, hopefully, whatever the score it will be "prettier" to watch than the last two England games.

So your going into the match with a new halfback pairing, new centre combination, new number eight and new second row? Honestly whilst I probably agree that they are the best players at the moment thats a tremendous risk.

I stand by what I say PJ and not in a wummy way. I think I gave a pretty fair analysis of why at the moemnt we are better. As Ive said I think this England side actually have the makings of a decent team for 2015 but they are two years behind teh welsh in that development process. I think the future is bright for England but not yet.

I feared the scots this week much more than I did the Irish as you can tell from my posting but theres no part of the English game from what we have seen so far that has me worried and where they have a clear domiance quite the opposite. Its been a very long time since Ive been able to say that.

honestly not wumming tho I know there is a rash of my countrymen trolling at the moment but this is me trying to be rational in debate.

3 wins in 30 years, the problem is it isn't the same players holding fortress twickenham Wales will go with a fair few players who won in twickenham stats can swing both ways.

Wales will win your just getting in all your excuses nice and early.

Southampton Osprey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Southampton Osprey wrote:Sorry, Geordiefalcon, but you're wrong. A big pack do not win games, they just give you a more secure platform. Italy will not win a game this year, which I hope will show the mediocrity of England's performance.

Aw well nice to know...

But actually you're wrong. You can win with a big pack and defensively strong backs. Mess it up as much as possible and play territory....
It might not be pretty but it can win you games...

Im watching the Wales Scotland game with interest...

Weren't Wales good? Didn't they score lots of tries? Am looking forward to Twickers.

"It might not be pretty but it can win you games..." This is an English mantra, right?

Wales were good...im not argueing that...

And erm English mantra...? Well it won us a world cup...one day Wales might enjoy that feeling...though i doubt it

TycroesOsprey wrote:So your going into the match with a new halfback pairing, new centre combination, new number eight and new second row? Honestly whilst I probably agree that they are the best players at the moment thats a tremendous risk.

I stand by what I say PJ and not in a wummy way. I think I gave a pretty fair analysis of why at the moemnt we are better. As Ive said I think this England side actually have the makings of a decent team for 2015 but they are two years behind teh welsh in that development process. I think the future is bright for England but not yet.

I feared the scots this week much more than I did the Irish as you can tell from my posting but theres no part of the English game from what we have seen so far that has me worried and where they have a clear domiance quite the opposite. Its been a very long time since Ive been able to say that.

honestly not wumming tho I know there is a rash of my countrymen trolling at the moment but this is me trying to be rational in debate.

Sorry Tycroes, I've no idea where you got all those changes from, I only mentioned Dickson and Flood, to be fair Morgan may start too, but other than that it will be a largely unchanged side I think, it would be foolish to make wholesale changes.

Dickson made a big difference to the pace on England's game when he came on against Italy and Flood is a better 10 than CH, Morgan I think adds better ball carrying options to the backrow. Flood may not make it as it would be very hard on Hodgson to bench him, or most likely drop him from the match 22 altogether. But in any eventuality I only see 3 changes to the starting XV. The biggest moves will be on the bench with Tuilagi and Lawes being bankers there.

You've every right to feel confident about the way Wales are playing as they look brilliant with ball in hand, they're very exciting and it takes me back to the great Wales sides I used to love watching as a kid, Gareth is my all time favourite player by a country mile by the way. My view of things so far is that Wales have played two games against sides that ran the ball at them and played in a similar style (but inferior) to the way Wales play it, but the game against England will not be like that.

England have had two arm-wrestles away from home and managed to pull off two dogged and determined wins, they've done that off slow ball from an out of sorts Youngs, with a less than creative attacking 10 and to be fair, a very new team in relation to the one that competed at the WC. That's no mean feat as far as I'm concerned and does suggest that the level of organisation and discipline in the current setup is very high.

I still rate Wales as favourites for the game, but not massively so, and I think that will be reflected in the result - a close one.

I get no sense of wummery from anything you've written and it is all very rational and furthermore logical and constructive so I'm cool with that, I just think that the game is very far from a forgone conclusion and Wales are not as experienced and "battle-hardened" as some would make you believe.

Incidentally, the only surviving players from the last win at Twickenham are Phillips, Jenkins, Rees, A Jones, I Evans and AWJ, so 6 out of 22 is not a big core of experience to draw on.

I'm looking forward to it.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Southampton Osprey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Southampton Osprey wrote:Sorry, Geordiefalcon, but you're wrong. A big pack do not win games, they just give you a more secure platform. Italy will not win a game this year, which I hope will show the mediocrity of England's performance.

Aw well nice to know...

But actually you're wrong. You can win with a big pack and defensively strong backs. Mess it up as much as possible and play territory....
It might not be pretty but it can win you games...

Im watching the Wales Scotland game with interest...

Weren't Wales good? Didn't they score lots of tries? Am looking forward to Twickers.

"It might not be pretty but it can win you games..." This is an English mantra, right?

Wales were good...im not argueing that...

And erm English mantra...? Well it won us a world cup...one day Wales might enjoy that feeling...though i doubt it

Wales certainly won't unless they work on their discipline. Red cards, yellow cards, spear tackles, ... are they building a reputation as the dirtiest rugby playing country?

viewtothegym wrote:3 wins in 30 years, the problem is it isn't the same players holding fortress twickenham Wales will go with a fair few players who won in twickenham stats can swing both ways.

Wales will win your just getting in all your excuses nice and early.

Sorry, what excuses? I haven't made any excuses, I'm just pointing out that Wales are a very good side, not far off from being exceptional, but will still be playing a well disciplined and organised England at a ground where Wales have struggled historically for the last 3 decades, therefore the game will be closer than most think and an England win is not out of the question.

Where in all that is there an excuse? You can't even get your wumming facts straight View, honestly, you're barely worth the bother. The last time Wales played at Twickenham they scored 3 tries and lost, the time before that they scored 2 and lost, so where in God's name did you get 4 tries from?

:twoshortplanks:

Sorry PJ all those chanhes were more of a composite of the posts on here rather tahn your pick exactly.

I think Tuilagi is key for England personally. Barrit and Farrell hasnt worked although Barritt has tackled like a demon and Farrell has nailed his kicks. If Tuilagi is on the bench then the game may be beyond England by the time he gets to come on.

Im really dissapointed with Ashton as Ihad him in my fantasy league for the last two games and hes just really looked disinterested at times.

Whether Flood or Hodgson Wales will target the 10/12 channel with Roberts, Cuthbert and North thats going to really test the defence.

Dixon has looked good coming on I agree and he deserves a start I think. However I have no idea what he is going to be like from the start and how he is going to vary his tactics with Mike Phillips breathing down his neck.

Honestlhy I think its going to be a long day at the cabbage patch for the home team.

How has Ashton looked disinterested? He has had very little chances offensively to do anything. And even for a guy who runs the angles well he hasnt had a sniff....

Got you Tycroes, I see what you mean now, fortunately the posters on here don't pick the England team and I suspect there will be a maximum of 3 changes to the starting XV.

I disgree on Barritt and Farrell and even Hodgson to a degree, they may not have worked in terms of producing free-flowing and creative attacking rugby, but they have hardly been a failure either, the Sarries midfield has performed at all levels this season, domestically, in the Heino and at Test level, it's just that they don't create much going forward, nor, as a rule do they leave holes in defence.

I doubt North and Cuthbert will be coming in off their wings too much as Ashton and Strettle are too dangerous to leave unattended, the major reason for the lack of impact out wide has been slow ball off Youngs and Hodgson playing too deep, I would hope that Hodgson will be encouraged to play flatter and Dickson will give him good ball to work with.

However, Flood is a better defensive option than Hodgson also, so that gives him two ticks in the right boxes for a starting berth, Flood, Farrell and Barritt wouldl be a formidable midfield defensively and if England are in touch after 60 minutes, Farrell, Barritt and Tuilagi could make some serious yards in a broken field.

If you look back at today's game, Wales didn't make any serious inroads into the Scottish defense until the second half when Scotland went to sleep for 10 minutes and lost some discipline, I don't think England will do that.

As for Phillips breathing down Dickson's neck? Well Phillips might have something else to think about off his own platform as Dickson is a very lively character in the Matt Dawson style, so Phillips won't get it all his own way.

I think both teams will have to put a serious shift in at the coalface, and it will probably be decided by the team that keeps their nerve, and both teams have shown form for that so far.

Incidentally, I had 1/2p in my Guiness fantasy team this weekend, and I had the foresight to make him captain too, so with double points I reckon he notched up 58pts for me! Comes across as a really nice fella too.

Enjoying the debate Tycroes.

I like Tycroes, he seems rational, hasn't resorted to small-minded insults and is actually making a good critique of the match up without hyperbole and advice.

My view for England is that we should have Dixon start, and I'd like to have Flood on the bench and Tuilagi to start but that seems impossible without dropping Farrell or Barritt which is harsh. However, Rugby is harsh, and someone is going to lose out. I agree with Tycroes, we need Tuilagi or we won't be able to break the Welsh line except via chips which is always bloody risky.
So Tuilagi to start but I'm glad I don't have to make the call between 10, 12 and 21. Personally I'm heading towards Barritt at 12, Farrell at 21, Hodgson to start and leave Flood out for now but I know that'll be controversial and I'll probably change my mind by tomorrow. I'd like Wood back but otherwise I'd play Robshaw, Croft and Morgan against Wales, with L and R flankers and split breakdown duties. No idea who on the bench, probably Dowson. Brown cannot be on the bench it's a waste of a space, put Sharples there or promote May or somebody. Brown should have started against Italy but he didn't and our bench is the selection that irritates me most about this team so far. It is such a reactionary not proactionary bench and the players there neither provide comfortable cover across the whole team nor allow us to change gameplan mid game. Lawes to bench, bring him on after 50 mins.

For Wales, I wouldn't change your 15 from today (except Warbs in) if possible. If North is out, start Byrne. Hook is a wonderful player to have on the bench but he would be a weak point and allow a chipping game past your blitz defence. He doesn't impress me as a 15 at all. Halfpenny is class wherever he plays. Do what you did last week and we will struggle. Get the ball wide, Hodgson's channel is far stronger than you'd expect and Robshaw may not be lighting up the matches but he has officially made 32 tackles so far with no misses and only one penalty. Keep Ryan Jones starting if you can, he has been class, was better than Lydiate IMO at 6 and better than Gough at Lock. Start AWJ on the bench and bring him on to counter Lawes. If Tipuric is back, have him on the bench, he was class. This is a match you should win but be wary. Form and momentum in the 6N may be overused words but they count for almost nothing. We won 5 matches last year then got humiliated by Ireland, and every year we have a shoddy game followed by one (usually at Twickers) where we click.

Not arguing with any of that PJ although I would play Barritt and Tuilagi from the word go, I would probably start with Hodgson and dixon and would leave Morgan on the bench as impact.

Even with all that at the moment there is nobody in the English team who I would pick over a welsh player. Ashton Foden Tuilagi are all players I like in the backs and I do rate Morgan highly in the forwards and would have had him in the welsh squad like a shot. I do think from 1-15 our players are performing at a higher level. As I said above if Lancaster gets the time to develop this team then I think they will go somehwere but at the moment I honestly dont think they are close to the welsh. Again I know people are going to say Im wumming but I have said why above.

England to win need to play much much better than they have so far and Wales need to play much worse and I cant see that happening.

Also whilst we didnt cross the tryline in the first half and our forwards took a real battering fro teh scots our backs were making yards right from the first minute.

yeah cheque I try not to wum and theres some good debate on the game on this thread so far. Im sure it will get highjacked in the nect two weeks sadly.

Tycroes, you're talking far too much sense to be considered a wummer, I think we both have good arguments that are hard to shoot down and surely that's what makes for a good debate?

We do agree on one point though, England have to play much, much better than they have, the fact is, I really believe they can.

Whether they will or not is yet to be seen, and that's why I'm looking forward to the game.

I don't blame you for not wanting to swap any of "yours" for any of "ours" and I wish I could say the same, you're a true rugby man Tycroes and it's been a pleasure, I'm off to my cot now so all the very best to you and yours.

G'night bud.

George North has been on twitter and said "itll be ok" when asked about his ankle by shane williams and a few others. Not so sure myself.

gnight PJ.

The only change I think we need in the pack is for Morgan to start and Dowson to drop to the bench. We need a big guy to punch some holes as a ball carrier off early phase ball, so that we can start to generate some quicker ball and some pentration.

Dickson did well for the first 10-15 minutes he was on, which coincided with Morgan being busy and bashing through the defence - he did move the ball quicker than Youngs, but he was also given the oppotunity to do so because we were getting over the gain line. Later on, he just did the right things in kicking for position and closing the game out. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a start soon, but suspect Youngs might get another game v Wales.

I think the bigger problem is that the midfield backs offer too little in attack - only Barritt has shown any penetration ball in hand (again, in the 15 minutes or so of the second half that we turned the game in our favour). Hodgson's one attacking skill seems to be charging down opposing kicks, and Farrell looks to just shift the ball on rather than commit any defenders. If Flood comes through the next club game well, I'd be inclined to start him, and Tuillagi surely has to come in at 13 to offer some real go forward. I'd shift Barritt in to 12 because (A) it's his better position and (B) he stands more chance of defending against the Wales midfield than does Farrell.

So I suspect 3 changes (plus one positional) - Morgan, Flood and Manu T to start, Farrell and Dowson to the bench and Hodgson out of the XXII (along with Turner-Hall).

miteyironpaw wrote:There's no doubt, regardless of how well they may have played, that Wales have had the rub of the green on some fairly controversial calls from the refs.

Wales actually had some green to rub on. They'd have looked pretty poor if they had to play in the snow in Rome.

Unless the tactics are completely changed from the sturgid crap Lancaster insisted we play in the first half and for the last 20 mins of the second then we will be slaughtered irrelevent of who starts.

Why he felt the need to restrict the scrum halfs other than the 20 mins proceeding half time and why he suddenly considers passing the ball to the 10 to be a sin is beyond me. His idea of 'wide' play in the second half was frankly embarrassing. I was quite hopeful when he took over but England are going backwards and I fear the Welsh are going to be jubilant following the game as the only thing we'll comfortably win is the lineout.

Dickson and Morgan definitely have to start.

Dickson in for Youngs, and Morgan in at 8. Possibly Dowson to 6 and Croft onto bench. Downson offers a little more at the breakdown and really makes a nuisance of himself. Morgan's the prototypical 8 and takes some of the carrying-duties off of Robshaw.
Was impressed by Dickson's speed to the ball, and the way he seemed to lift the entire intensity of the team. Fair enough, he had one or two poor passes, but he impressed. I think Youngs has got some serious thinking to do, regarding whether he can actually play with other fly-halves apart from Flood.
Once again, the front row was fantastic. Corbs and COle are becoming an incredibly reliable and formidable pairing. Hartley's line out let him down big time, but it improved when Parling came on. I would consider starting Parling alongside a bruiser like Botha or Lawes. Palmer was good, but his Scotland performance has left a black mark against his name for the mean time.

well said B91212, my thoughts as well.

I think Youngs has got some serious thinking to do, regarding whether he can actually play with other fly-halves apart from Flood

Well Hodgson didn't want the ball when either scrum half was on and it wasn't until after half time and Lancaster admitted to giving the go ahead to play 'wide' we saw Ben Youngs actually attack. If Lancaster intends to maintain the attritional forwards and kicking game plan then he might as well drop Youngs because he simply can't play like that.

As for Phillips breathing down Dickson's neck? Well Phillips might have something else to think about off his own platform as Dickson is a very lively character in the Matt Dawson style, so Phillips won't get it all his own way.

Unless something changes dramatically Phillips will have an arm chair ride from the Welsh forwards and Dickson will barely see the ball. When he does he'll be under instructions to kick or pass to a forward, the Welsh defence will be all over that all to easily. As shown by Scotland and Ireland you need to get the ball beyond the rush defence and into the outside channels which is where Wales are open to attack they may have two massive defenders on the wings but in behind them is only the 15 as cover.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Well Hodgson didn't want the ball when either scrum half was on and it wasn't until after half time and Lancaster admitted to giving the go ahead to play 'wide' we saw Ben Youngs actually attack. If Lancaster intends to maintain the attritional forwards and kicking game plan then he might as well drop Youngs because he simply can't play like that.

Sorry Sam, I don't recall really seeing Youngs play like that, or Lancaster giving the nod to play wide. I was watching in a crowded pub, so my attention might not have been the greatest, but I have re-watched it since. I just don't think Youngs is playing anywhere near his potential yet, and I blame the management at the WC to be honest. Cockerhill was incensed by the condition Youngs returned from NZ in, and i'm sure that this is reduced his progress on the field.

Sam why do you and other Tigers' fans not accept that Youngs has been rubbish in the last 2 games?

You blame Hodgson yet when Dickson came on England were more threatening.

@beshocked; I'm a Tiger's fan.

Youngs has been rubbish the last 2 games.

You may quote me on that.

For me, The key changes are Dickson and Morgan. I'd like to see Parling, Tuilagi and Flood as well, but wonder if this is fair on a side that is, after all, two from two.

Don't know what's up with Youngs. Perhaps he just needs to take more responsibility for himself and grow up a bit. I thought he was better in the Italy game - seemed to have cut out the unnecesary step and was getting the ball away quicker. Perhaps he'd have been fine with Morgan at 8? As things stand though, Dickson seemed to have the quicker service and I think that's what we need. Go away and work on a pass from the base like a bullet, Ben lad.

I thought the problem with the line out was unfamiliarity and/or Hartley having a bad patch. I'd like to see Parling and Croft start, but that may just be unnecessary tinkering. Lawes ditto.

Flood for Hodgson: Sorry Charlie, you've done everything we hoped and more but you still aren't a first choice England Flyhalf in my opinion. But thank you very much and you should be proud.

Tuilagi for Barritt? Bench start I'd say, and see how it goes. Back from injury and all that. Give Brad and Owen a chance to do something with a slicker service from inside.

Much depends imo on what Lancaster said before the Scotland game: If he said, as I suspect, that the side that started against Scotland would start against Italy pretty much no matter what that he can make quite a few changes without unsettling the squad because they knew something like this was coming. If he said he was building a team and taking it game by game I'd expect fewer changes - but the minimum I expect is Morgan and Dickson in.

bluestonevedder wrote:@beshocked; I'm a Tiger's fan.

Youngs has been rubbish the last 2 games.

You may quote me on that.

Fair play bluestonevedder I didn't realise you're a Tigers fan! I apologise.

I would happily admit Farrell and Barritt in the centres is not at all creative. Difficult to drop either though because both have had good debuts.

Tough choice for Lancaster.

I personally would probably have a centre partnership of Barritt and Tuilagi but only if Tuilagi is in good form.

How did Flood and Tuilagi do vs Exeter?

beshocked wrote:

Fair play bluestonevedder I didn't realise you're a Tigers fan! I apologise.

I would happily admit Farrell and Barritt in the centres is not at all creative. Difficult to drop either though because both have had good debuts.

Tough choice for Lancaster.

I personally would probably have a centre partnership of Barritt and Tuilagi but only if Tuilagi is in good form.

How did Flood and Tuilagi do vs Exeter?

Flood hit the post and was charged down but I dont know about Manu. I think he has to be in the team and I know Lancaster wants people to work for the jersey and so on but Tuilagi must be inked in for the Wales game?

beshocked wrote:

Fair play bluestonevedder I didn't realise you're a Tigers fan! I apologise.

I would happily admit Farrell and Barritt in the centres is not at all creative. Difficult to drop either though because both have had good debuts.

Tough choice for Lancaster.

I personally would probably have a centre partnership of Barritt and Tuilagi but only if Tuilagi is in good form.

How did Flood and Tuilagi do vs Exeter?

No problem at all! In all honesty regarding the centres, I would move Barritt to 12 and play Tuilagi at 13. I think given Barritt's performance it's seriously hard to drop him, and to be honest, I have absolute confidence in him. I think with two big runners like them in the centre, either way one will draw defenders and open gaps up for the other. They are also good boshers, so that's always another positive! Farrell's been great, and i'm sure there will be a position for him in the squad at some point, but whether that's now, i'm not sure. Good bench option mind.
Regarding Flood and Manu i'm not sure how they got on! I missed the game as I was on a 6N/birthday weekend, and didn't get a chance to see it. Tigers lost but i'm told it was a hard fought battle, so hopefully they both performed well.

I just don't think Youngs is playing anywhere near his potential yet

Agreed. What I was getting at was for the ten mins after half time he was picking and trying to draw the defence before passing, in the first half everything was straight from the base in a most un-Youngs sort of way. He probably needs to be dropped back to Tigers as this England team a)doesn't suit him and b)will destroy his confidence if he stays in it. Lancaster wants to go defensive and kick the ball then he needs to call up Hodgson from LI or maybe Spencer form Sarries the likes of Simpson and Youngs just can't play that style.

Sam why do you and other Tigers' fans not accept that Youngs has been rubbish in the last 2 games?

Who said he played well? I certainly didn't, he doesn't fit this team and he can't play the style Lancaster wants. The entire backs division with the exception of Barritt has been rubbish for the last two weeks and either the style or the personnel need to change if Lancaster wants any hope of a result against Wales.