So many factors that can work either way...

- Twickenham a home advantage to England but what an opportunity for Wales - and what an incentive for the Welsh squad to beat England in their own backyard. Advantage England?

- Confidence - Wales have to be on a high after two wins where they illustrated attacking capability. England, not necessarily a lack of confidence, after all, two wins there as well, but no sign of an attack yet (because they can't or the conditions didn't allow it is so far irrelevant- it remains an unknown) Advantage Wales

- Expectation - Interesting one. I think that the majority of the rugby world expects a Welsh victory. Not always a comfortable position, but Wales have enough confidence these days to wear the "favourites" badge, even if it is a little uncomfortable. England however, don't need to feel the weight of expectation. New team shape, interim management, plenty of excuses (for want of a better phrase) - hopefully from an English perspective this means no fear and no weight of expectation. - Evens.

- Players returning from injury - Both Wales and England have some game influencers coming back from injury. Have some of the Welsh players been dropped straight back into the team too soon after their injuries? Have some of the England players been benched who should be out on the field? Haven't got a Scooby.

What other influences that might go other way do other people wonder about?
Please feel free to pull any of my arguments to bits - just musing really!

Personally, if it was in Wales then i would expect a rather comfortable Welsh win. Because this is in Twickers and Swing Low will be in full roar, i imagine a much closer game.

Still going for Wales by 5 though

A little bit of luck either way can make the difference. So many matches these days are won or lost because of a dubious decision by a referee, the margins are so small, and the problem is the scrums and breakdowns are exposed to the interpretation of the defending team, the attacking team, the referee and his side kicks, the odds that all those can work in one synchronised effort to provide a collective agreement when there will be roughly 200+ opportunities to disagree is highly unlikely.

I see this game going in a similar fashion to the recent RWC game between Wales and Samoa - Its a strong and powerful England side that has a good defense against a rampant and powerful welsh team - Its at Twickenham and contrary to popular opinion I think the pressure will be on England - Lets not kid ourselves. These are young welsh boys who go out to play with a smile on their face and their overwhelming composure was epitomised against Ireland when with a few minutes left they refused to panic - created another great try and had the self belief to work back up field to create another opportunity. That was a sign of maturity and control and they will strut onto the field with absolute respect for England but also with the confidence that if they execute their game plan they can come away with a win

Wales by 5 also.

But the moral win will be ours.

HERSH & MORAL in the same sentence

Hows them sausage rolls coming - Hershy I bet you liked that Quins48 Leeds 41 result yesterday after your strong defence retort - it was fun mate fun. Hot dogs for tea boys

HERSH wrote:Wales by 5 also.

But the moral win will be ours.

Unfortunately, mate, moral victories are also known as losses. I don't ever recall feeling good after a loss.

Dr Grey didn't England do a lap of honour a few years ago after losing to NZ at Twickenham - Let's have some context here - its only a game and you are after all an extremely logical and rationale young man

RubyGuby wrote:These are young welsh boys who go out to play with a smile on their face and their overwhelming composure was epitomised against Ireland when with a few minutes left they refused to panic - created another great try and had the self belief to work back up field to create another opportunity. That was a sign of maturity and control and they will strut onto the field with absolute respect for England but also with the confidence that if they execute their game plan they can come away with a win

You are living in a beautiful bubble my friend.

RubyGuby wrote: - Its at Twickenham and contrary to popular opinion I think the pressure will be on England - Lets not kid ourselves.

I'm really not so sure. I'm starting to think the pressures all over the place!
A rampant Welsh side? It certainly has the potential. I don't think they were "rampant" against either Ireland or Scotland - apart from when Scotland were a man down, when they very efficiently put them to the sword.

Englands inexperience and the newness of the side...especially through 8-12
It means they will be finding their feet and potentiasl frgaile, but very hard for the opposition to analyse closely and have detailed plans for. Noone really knows exactly how these players will operate.

The opposite for Wales. They are quite predicatbel, playing essentialy the same gameplan for several years with a largely well established side. It means they knpow exactlyw hat they are doing and what works for them, but allows the opposition to plan accordingly.

I reckon that this game will swing yet again on the ref's interpretation of RU's impossible Laws.

And thus reinforce my argument for touchline challenges.

RubyGuby wrote:I see this game going in a similar fashion to the recent RWC game between Wales and Samoa - Its a strong and powerful England side that has a good defense against a rampant and powerful welsh team - Its at Twickenham and contrary to popular opinion I think the pressure will be on England - Lets not kid ourselves. These are young welsh boys who go out to play with a smile on their face and their overwhelming composure was epitomised against Ireland when with a few minutes left they refused to panic - created another great try and had the self belief to work back up field to create another opportunity. That was a sign of maturity and control and they will strut onto the field with absolute respect for England but also with the confidence that if they execute their game plan they can come away with a win

Not sure this is tongue in cheek or actually how you feel. I definitely disagree though.

The pressure is all on Wales. Wales are the favourites. Wales are the ones who have been built up as 8ft tall monsters who will run over England with effortless ease. Jonathan Davies has been shouting his mouth off which doesn't help matters:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9081422/Six-Nations-2012-England-will-get-smashed-by-Waless-forwards-at-Twickenham-says-Jonathan-Davies.html

For once Gatland has been smart by not wading into the debate.

If Wales don't win the bubble will burst. Serious doubts will creep into the Welsh camp.

In comparison what does Stuart Lancaster have to lose? He's picked a very inexperienced England side which has plenty of potential. He's not getting much stick because most people agree with his selections.

Gatland has a lot more to lose. This Welsh side is further down the road in regards to development. Wales should win. Anything less and there might be calls for Gatland's head.

Beshocked I know what your saying but are you telling me that there's less pressure on Morgan, Dickson and Farrell than there is on Faletau, Phillips and Priestland - Sorry I'm happy to differ but the pressure is very much on England here at Twickenham - Can these lads handle and rise to it. The welsh lads are confident and they have earned that right to be confident - The pressure is on England at Twickers - Sorry

RubyGuby wrote:HERSH & MORAL in the same sentence

Hows them sausage rolls coming - Hershy I bet you liked that Quins48 Leeds 41 result yesterday after your strong defence retort - it was fun mate fun. Hot dogs for tea boys

I went for this one in the end Ruby, plus some other beautiful cheeses purchased in a nice little deli in Richmond.

http://www.harrods.com/product/harrods/daylesford-gentlemans-hamper/000000000002240215?cat1=hamper-boutique&cat2=b-hampers-traditional

Lucky for Wales that Warburton and Davies are out then, apparently they struggle with the pressure....

RubyGuby wrote:Dr Grey didn't England do a lap of honour a few years ago after losing to NZ at Twickenham - Let's have some context here

What does context have to do with a Wales - England match? Are you one of those 'New Age' guys? (but you are right).

RubyGuby wrote:you are after all an extremely logical and rationale young man

My wife just saw that and thinks you are a funny guy. I, of course, applaud your deep insights and intelligence..........

Rubyguby of course there's more pressure on Faletau,Phillips and Priestland. They are the ones with it all to lose. They are still in a way unproven. Built up on paper to be much better than their opposition. Looking at the world rankings and recent head to heads in the 6 nations would beg to differ.

They have to face the daunting task of beating an England side at Twickenham.

Morgan,Dickson and Farrell will relish the opportunity to play in front of their home fans. 1st caps at home will spur them on.

Farrell in particular has nerves of steel. He'll have his team mate at 12 to help him out too. He's used to performing well at Twickenham as he did in the AP final.

RubyGuby wrote:Beshocked I know what your saying but are you telling me that there's less pressure on Morgan, Dickson and Farrell than there is on Faletau, Phillips and Priestland - Sorry I'm happy to differ but the pressure is very much on England here at Twickenham - Can these lads handle and rise to it. The welsh lads are confident and they have earned that right to be confident - The pressure is on England at Twickers - Sorry

I absolutely agree that the new players will be feeling a unique pressure not to let the team down, and need to fight off the big-match, home-against-Wales jitters. I don't think that can be underestimated.

But, in the big picture, the pressure is equally on both teams, in my opinion. A match like this, Six Nations, England-Wales, doesn't get bigger. Both sides want to win the Six Nations. They both know if they win, they take a huge step forwards to that goal. Both sets of players are extremely competitive (thats how they get to this level in the first place). Neither team cares about outside expectations. Whether this match is played in Twickenham, Cardiff, or the Gobi Desert, both team feel the pressure to win. Just the same.

We differ beshocked but that's what the board is for - The Pressure remains on England IMO against a very good welsh team - World Rankings, Head to Heads - Move into the here and now its a much better predictor and last time out this welsh team won I believe

Might I suggest the presure might be on both sides? It can happen you know. Either - Or doesn't quite work all the time.

Lancaster has to prove his credentials...and this is the toughest test he'll probably be marked on by the lads who'll be handing out the Big Job. Whatever about losing to France, the RFU won't want losing to Wales at home. So pressure is on for players, pride and very much on their coach.

Wales have to prove that talk isn't cheap. Truth be told, they probably now view themselves as the top side in Europe. They've put the pressure on themselves to now prove the point in every game they play - they'll want to play their brand of full bodied attacking rugby with a winning conclusion.

Wales will of course play with confidence at least initially, because I think they realise that's not only a natural state for them but it pays dividends in the extra charge of energy producing adrenalin it creates.

But if England play an aggressive defensive game and stall the Welsh steam train in its tracks, then confidence might build through the ranks of a home team with much more pragmatic values on how to squeeze a win.

Rubyguby if that's how you feel. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I personally feel you don't want to admit the weight of expectation and pressure that is truly on this Welsh team.

If England lose it wouldn't be a surprise, Wales are after all the favourites and this is a very inexperienced England side with new players as you mention.

In contrast this is a Welsh side which has been together some time. They have put in some very good performances but ultimately in quite a few of their biggest games to date they have not delivered.

To lose to such an inexperienced English side would send alarm bells ringing.

England can take heart that they have won two away games on the bounce in hostile conditions against two sides known for their arm wrestle tactics. This will be their first game at home. The midfield has been bolstered by the return of M.Tuilagi. The backrow and no 9 should be stronger too.

All the new debutants will fight harder.

RubyGuby wrote:I see this game going in a similar fashion to the recent RWC game between Wales and Samoa - Its a strong and powerful England side that has a good defense against a rampant and powerful welsh team - Its at Twickenham and contrary to popular opinion I think the pressure will be on England - Lets not kid ourselves. These are young welsh boys who go out to play with a smile on their face and their overwhelming composure was epitomised against Ireland when with a few minutes left they refused to panic - created another great try and had the self belief to work back up field to create another opportunity. That was a sign of maturity and control and they will strut onto the field with absolute respect for England but also with the confidence that if they execute their game plan they can come away with a win

The smile of the damned...

"The new debutants will fight harder"

- sorry but that i dont understand.

theres huge pressure on both of these teams in this game, although Englands is of their own (and Lancasters) making. If Farrell flops at 10, Lancasters gone after the 6nations for sure and its hard to see how they're going to beat Ireland/France without being able to score tries (now their star exponent of this new charge down game is sidelined anyway )

the pressure on wales was been built up by the media, but I think people are struggling to realise that this isnt the welsh team of a few years ago that wilted whenever the "f" word was thrown in their direction. professionalism is the order of the day in wales, its been a complete culture change.

Comfort the new debutants will fight harder because it's a real shot to cement their places in the side and being at Twickenham in front of a capacity crowd will really motivate them.

if Farrell flops then Lancaster can bring on Flood after 40-50 minutes or earlier if he deems it necessarily.

People forget that England can throw on the likes of Lawes,Flood and Brown who could make a big difference. Even Youngs playing with his comfort blanket Flood could re-find his mojo.

This English team could really put pressure on Wales.Wales still don't like it when the pressure is on.

beshocked wrote:.Wales still don't like it when the pressure is on.

This is something I'm not so sure about. I think this was the case with Wales historically, but they have proved that they can take pressure. I think this has been the major improvement in Welsh rugby. I think their attacking ability has been over-hyped and I've yet to see it personally, (potential yes, but actually seen, no) however their ability to absorb pressure and win tight games is now proven.

Hmmm i understand what you're getting at, but i dont think that has any relevenace to how hard they'll fight out on the pitch in relation to their welsh counterparts. I would have thought they'll all be out their aiming to prove themselves and cement their place. In front of their home crowd, if they go behind early, and the welsh backs start running at them repeatedly, their heads could drop and all of a sudden that twickenham crowd is on their backs a bit in their first test....

I get what you're saying completely, i just dont think its as simple as that and any small thing could turn a potential positive into a negative.

Both sides are under immense pressure for this game though, anyone who thinks otherwise is a plebb! Ahhh this is the most excited for a wales vs england game i can remember, hopefully we're talking about the rugby and not a particular decision after the game

Wales dont like it when the presure is on - The Ireland game would suggest otherwise

Beshocked expectation and pressure are 2 very different animals - Of course these welsh lads have expectations, thats very much a positive - England will want to crush these expectations so we are all set for a fascinating match which in reality will probably be a damp squib and a 9-6 victory to Wales

I'm not convinced pressure or nervous play much part once the whistle has blown. I've never played any sport at a particularly high level but the big games i have played in (low league cup finals etc) where i was nervous before the game that just disappears 2 minutes after kick off when you just focus on the moment itself.

Pressure only really occurs when you've time to think about things, in Rugby the kick at goal is the only true example of this and possibly the hookers at lineout time. I don't have any conerns about either Hartley or Farrel dealing with these situations.

Both back 5's include 3 English born players....

Games over the last few years have generally been close. Only a year ago we won in Cardiff. Its a very different English team and I know there is a feeling that Wales have moved on since then but I am glad we wont have too long to wait now to find out what is going to happen