Punching power - analysis.

First topic message reminder :

Choynski and Johnson were jailed for being in a mixed race fight which was illegal at the time but the jail itself - looking for a way to control their own inmates allowed them to box - this is where the rumours (later confirmed) started about Choynski training Johnson. Johnson said that Choynski hit the hardest of everyone ever p4p. I doubt that is true in a pure sense but perhaps he had this sense of positioning/timing that added a serious snap to his punches like, Roy jones, Naz, Tyson who when training/reflexes faded away.

Tyson for example had a vicious left hook which he used to great effect but both Morrison and Tua had more brute force behind it. Klitschko the younger has been rated as about an equal puncher to lewis by his trainer and superior to that of Tyson.. again a little exaggerated I feel but theres no doubting the great force behind the punch.

There are other boxers in the HW division who seem to be nothing more than power punchers with little all else - cant box cant move cant defend - sanders rahman etc

Seems to be a tough ask - but how would you go about distinguishing the puncher types and who would you put forward as an example for such a category?

Yesterday's 'On this day' spawned quite a lively debate about punching power and I figured it would be a shame to lose it as we moved on to the next day.

Therefore I saved the comments relevant to the 'punching power' debate, reproduced them as a separate thread, and am bumping them up for further discussion.

Enjoy.

Cheers mate.

I'm not quite sure how to explain this but he goes.

I've always held the view that the difference between the explosive puncher and the puncher is the balance of their body in regards to muscles an concentration of force. For example - SRR knockout of fullmer - watch his feet, legs then body then the punch rewinding each time to concentrate on each part and the power transfer is split second uninterrupted. SRR is lithe and technically brilliant.

Then there is Mayweather - also lithe and technically brilliant but by the time his punch goes through it seems as if the power has dissipated somewhat en route to his fist. Same with wladimir the first bit is fine - the power transfer, and the technique but then it seems to half fizzle out when the fist lands.

Then there are people like Tommy Hearns whose power travels up from the legs and seems to accumulate in his upper body then is thrust forth in a perfect transfer - such as the Duran knockout.

Do you think - the correct balance of muscles may play a significant part in determining the explosive from the hurtful. Like the SRR example - he doesnt have any excess fat or muscle and the power transfers seamlessly from one point - the ground to the other - the end of his fist. Julian jackson was another such fighter. I believe some fighters whether through nature or through training (or lack of it) create this excess space which which seriously hinders the momentum the body creates with the technique to throw a punch.

Imagine a pipe with the odd crack/leak here or there - the pressure coming out of the water is dissapated and slowed by the other escape points. So someone lithe can generate serious force at a lower weight may once they've gone up cant because this path is hindered by these escape points - excess fat-excess muscle and sapping the momentum before it reaches the fist. Might also explain why modern fighters struggle with weight disadvantages whereas back in the day they fought from their usual weight - 150 lbs - 160lbs with people outweighing them by 40 pounds- even fighters of excellent ability were chopped down by middleweights.

The mass transfer is the momentum of the, the greater the momentum then theoretically the greater the velocity and acceleration but all this serves to increase the impulse of a punch when you're dealing with such short distances over a short period of time, the smallest change can make a huge difference.

Jack Dempsey shared some of his insights about punching technique in an instructional manual entitled 'Championship Fighting.'

There's a bit of historical 'sugar' in there, of course, but there's also some extremely intersting stuff.

For those interested, here's a link to an online version :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/247258/Championship-Fighting-by-Jack-Dempsey-1950

Hmm . but does the fat especially - wobbling all over the place as it does - dissipate some of the force? Because all of it doesnt transfer through to the fist it just jiggles about all over the place rather than focusing into that punch.

I've got that at home next to my bed windy - My wifes peed because her pillows keep going missing and random pillow fluff keeps appearing under the bed - thinks we might have a rat insfestation Feels great practicing those hooks.

Don't think it's so much the fat but the muscle, the energy transfer is all through the muscles.

ShahenshahG wrote:

I've got that at home next to my bed windy - My wifes peed because her pillows keep going missing and random pillow fluff keeps appearing under the bed - thinks we might have a rat insfestation Feels great practicing those hooks.

Ha!

She'll be proud of you when you get it weighed off and let her in on the secret, mate.

Not quite what I mean ghosty - the momentum/ the force does travel through the muscles but going back yet again to the SRR example - his whole momentum/mass wen behind the punch - the fat doesnt usually align with that - the energy sort of finds another outlet so while the main force is routing through the muscles - the extra fat moves and siphons abit of the force from the side (to move the fat in the first place) and lets it out into the air while the main force is still going to the fist. The fatter fighters dont have that mass all travelling in the same direction - sort of like an electric current going through a medium with high resistance - some of the energy turns into heat

Edit: Windy - she won't be proud of me if i automatically left hook her when she comes at me with a high heel

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Speed is an irrelevance in this, a heavier and faster object can have less force behind it than a lighter and slower object.

In it's most simple form as Windy has already pointed out, force is mass times the acceleration, the issue with that is the fact a person throwing a punch isn't using dead weight so calculating the mass is easier done in reverse.

speed is very important.
on a scientific level - (or GCSE P.E)

power = speed x strengh.
we are after all, talking about punching power.

there are fighters who have speed, there are fighters who have strength, the ones who have both would have a greater chance of delivering a knock out blow. add in technique and timing into the mix and you'll be a KO artist.

Strength doesn't really come into it and people confuse speed with velocity on a mechanical level anyway, it's all semantics.