What has happened to Andy?

In my mind when I look at Andy Murray a player who has won numerous master's events, has a great head to head against the top players and has played in 3 grandslam finals it is surprising that he is playing the way that he is. Since his loss to Djokovic at the Aussie open he hasn't won a set of tennis and has lost two straight matches in straights to players not even ranked in the top 100. When I think about what it is about Andy that keeps him from reaching the next level the thing that strikes me is that Andy in the last year has stopped growing as a player. About 18 months ago Andy was on fire routing Djokovic, beating the Feds and Nadals of the worlds catapulting to #2 in the world. At that time he was getting more free points on serve and he was taking risks and flattening out the forehand. But it has been many months since we have seen andy play the 1-2 punch tennis that he played 18-24 months ago and even at the 2010 Australian open.

To me if you look at what Fed, Nadal, and Rafa have done to seperate themselves from the field is that they have taken risks and added new wrinkles to their game every single year. Djokovic reworked his serve and saw that it wasn't working and went back to his old motion, he has consistently improved his volleys although not yet a great volleyer he is now competent at net. Djokovic also reworked his old forehand which had been very successful to make it into quite frankly one of the 5 or 10 best forehands on tour. Nadal is an even better example adding an improved serve, better volleys, and a flat forehand to his arsenal over the years. Federer also early on in his career solidified his backhand, added the drop shots, and improved his consistency and most importantly his demeanor.

But as for Murray he seems to have stagnated and gone into reverse because he has not added to his game in the last couple of season. Except for that short run of form when he played extremely well on his serve and forehand. His forehand is still suspect, his second serve is still too weak, he needs a strong coach to add something to his game. The rest of the players are expanding their arsenals while murray seems to be regressing.

I still think he will get there, he is a unique talent with a varied game, but he needs to improve the base of his game. Namely the serve and forehand combination, the bread and butter of the ATP tour.

Andy will be playing alongside Novak in the doubles at Miami. It would be a good opportunity for him to compare notes with Novak who won his second round singles match 6-0 6-1 against the world No 54 Denis Istomin.

Nore Staat, Murray is a great talent, I hope he comes back into serious contention. But his recent annoucement that instead of getting a big name coach he is going to take his best friend Dani on the road with him is not encouraging. Murray seems to be very stubborn in his desire to do things his way on and off the court, I wonder when he will realize it isn't working.

Growth has to come from within. Andy needs to mature as a person before being able to take the necessary steps that might enable him to attain the next level. In present circumstances it seems that his objective is to return to the form he showed towards the latter part of last year, although we know what happened at the US Open. I think with Andy GB have a good top ten player but at some point consideration needs also to be given to the next generation of player.

"I wonder when he will realize it isn't working."

Well perhaps let's attend one year. He will still only be 24 years of age an age in which Tim Henman first made his mark.

Nore Straat certainly Andy has already had a great deal of success and I think he will have more success in the future. I am one of those that believe he will win a grandslam or two in his career. But this refusal to hire on a bigtime permanent coach and then announcing that he is going to bring one of his mates and his hitting partner on tour with him full time is not an encouraging signal. He does need to make a change in my mind, the same weaknesses he had in his game are plaguing him after 7 years on the tour. To me that is a sign of stagnation, and on the ATP tour if you don't get better every year you start to fall behind.

I think we all know that Andy has the the tools to do the job.. I have always had a question mark over Andy´s mental strength however . I do not think he is as mature as other players of his age and younger on tour. He is in denial he will not admit to himself or anyone else that he needs to be disciplined on court. I would suggest he is not good at taking instructions.His body language is unbelievably bad, he allows his emotions to show and the opposition know how to rattle him. He then becomes his own worst enemy (Novak was like that but he has come to grips with it)
In my opinion until Andy can admit that he needs help with discipline and to remain focussed he is going to go from bad to worse. Sorry but it is time to grow up Andy because its the one thing that no one not even a good coach can do for you. Henman may not have reached the heights he did any sooner than Andy but he was a a much more mature player. Henman´s mindset and Andy´s abilities wow that would have been a good combination

I have to agree with Haddie to an extent. Certainly, Murray seems more mentally fragile than many of the other top pros. And there is a question as to how coachable Andy is. But when he did have a good top notched coach like Brad Gilbert he made his first rise in the rankings and really started to add to his game. Both in terms of his serve and his fitness. On the mental side I agree, but a big name coach can help with discipline, or maybe even a sports psychologist. Simply traveling around with your mates and your mum may not be the best way to develop that discipline.

And aside from the mental part of the game I still feel like his serve and forehand combination need some technical tweeking. He lacks the big one two punch necessary for success on the tour at the absolute highest levels.

Good thread folks......I don't know enough about the technicalities of tennis to contribute much myself, but what you're saying is making perfect sense to me.

I think that, providing his heart is still in tennis and with the right coaching and psychological support, Andy can get back to being the player he was, and then some (oh how I hate that phrase lol).

Solerina

Yes Solerina, lets hope he does make it back soon, he can do so much better and the tour is better when he and other great stars are challenging the top 3 guys on a regular basis. Unfortunately, in his current state doesn't seem to be challenging even the top 100 guys.

Andy has been on the slide for the last couple of years, when in fact he should have been getting stronger, and improving the finer points of his game. His serve is still woeful, and his lack of aggression is obvious.........
He also needs a coach who knows how to channel Andy's talent.
But from what I gather, Andy is un-coachable.......
So, if he wants to stay at the top, he'll have to improve dramatically, cos there are dozens of players out there who are waiting to play and beat Andy........ he's no longer perceived invincible. His bubble has burst.

Good thread, socal.

I do agree that Andy doesn't seem to have moved his game forward. Look, I don't know what went on with Miles, but he must have made a decision then that in order to go forward, he had to have a change, which is fair enough, but what change did he really make and how can he say that he has improved because of it?

I just think good results here and there cover it up a bit and helps his thinking that he's doing OK. A Wimbledon SF makes up for poor form post AO 2009 and a not so good clay season. Then the summer came and this gets backed up with a Masters 1000 success, then there was Shanghai and a good WTF with that amazing SF match, so that helps balance out a Cincy and a poor USO and one other result in Asia that escapes me now. And post WTF he gets to the final of AO, so really it can sort of look like he's doing well.

But I think he lacks consistency which keeps your ranking at where its at, he needs some more ideas technically, and he needs more of a mental edge at crucial points in matches. Look to his nearest rival, Robin Soderling. Look, I can't really be objective about this guy, but he's got to number 4 on the strength of 2 FO appearances, 1 Masters win and 2 x 500 series (all indoors). That's hardly taking your breath away. But what he does do is be fairly consisent with his results, and he's picking up 250 titles along the way too. He's also appointed good coaches who he is listening to, and hence, he's where he is.

Soderling hasn't got as good an ability as Murry has IMO, and I'm sorry for this Andy fans, but what on earth is this latest decision to have one of his best mates as his coach??!!!?? OK, I know nothing of this Dani guy, but how can he be technically qualified to coach Andy and as if as best pals, he's going to have the where-with-all to tell it to him as it is and give him a good kick if he needs it? He may be good to have around for his off court psyche and well being, but to help make him a champion? I'm sorry, I think its plain daft.

He has all the tools, he just needs to go back to basics a bit and someone to help him put it all together again. He needs someone to help with his mental strength and give him that competitive edge. For me, its a total re-vamp of his coaching staff. I do think he's less mature than his player peers around him, and his on-court demeanour and stubboness proves this. He needs an older, wiser head to guide him and be tough. He's in a fug right now and needs help and guidance to get out of it. He keeps saying his practice is OK and its down to him and he's the one making the mistakes on the court. I don't think its just you Andy, its a wider issue and you're going to have to bring in the people to help you.

It certainly is a worrying stage in Murrays career. To be beaten by qualifiers that he should have eaten for breakfast, underlines some feature of his game that is lacking or is missing.

Many of you have stated its a mental fragility that is his problem, but its not so clear cut as that. His concentration and focus are in bad need of a revamp and a major overhaul if he is going to do any better in the slams or masters.

But what is most worrying is his lack of attentiveness to his coaching. I agree with everyone who has criticised his latest choice of tour pal.

Fine, you want to take a friend with you, fine, but for gods sake get a coach too, preferably someone with slam experience who can help him get over the final hurdle, but until he gets that kind of coaching, how will he ever claim his first title ?

Its worrying and it doesn't bode well for Andy's future. It's almost as if he is taking the "world against me" stance, which is childish, which again underlines his nature at the moment.

Of course, all this might be a blessing in disguise if he continues to lose in this fashion and plummet down the rankings, he might just take a look at himself and come to the conclusion that he is not as good as he thought and needs outside help to bring himself up to scratch to get that elusive slam title.

I think you are only endorsing what the rest of us have said Jubba .. it is acknowledged that Andy is not focussed, and that he needs help both mentally and with the aid of a coach. However I need convincing that Andy is coachable .. I dont think so in his present frame of mind he is unable to admit that he needs it simply because he doesn´t take instruction easily. Hence taking a friend who has obviously no match experience (leave alone Slams) endorses that fact he is hardly likely to take instruction or advice of someone who obviously knows less than he does.
Im not surprised at his decline at this rate.. he can´t obviously be taking his career seriously. Shame Andy dont be remembered for being another wasted talent along with Nalby ,Safin etc.

Nearly all the comments on the different forums seem to come back to the word Coach or the lack of one.

The Dani Vallverdu connection defies beggars belief if he seriously considers him as his coach, up until last week he was only his hitting partner!!

It's OK to have a load of yes men in your team watching and supporting you, but he needs someone who actually can see what he is doing wrong preferably a player who has been there and done it at the highest level and can recommend the necessary actions to move forward, those on his team at present don't come close.

Yes we know he is stubborn probably a Scottish trait and I should know, but if he wants to get to the top he must bite the bullet and take the necessary action to get himself on the right tracks in order for this to happen.

He could retire now at the ripe old age of twenty three a very rich man, however I don't think that's what he wants to do until he can crack the slams, which as it stands at the moment is light years away.

What he has in his favour is natural talent as his achievements to date prove.

So Andy

First off, I would like to commend everyone on the fine fact filled analysis, very good commentary.

The consensus is that his lack of big name permanent coach has hurt him, and others like Haddie conclude that he may not even be coachable. I tend to agree with this line as well. What big namen coach wants to be abused in his box by Andy's diatribes every time loses a break or a set? Lets remember that the Murray's were after Killer Cahill to coach Andy last year before wimby and cahill publically turned them down. Now Andy says that he doesn't yell at his box but yells at himself to his team. That is an important difference but certainly to the fans and media it appears that he is abusing his coach or his team.

I hope that he works out these problems. Because I actually think he is an otherworldly talent, but he seems to be a tortured genius. It would be great for the sport is Andy could break Great Britain's 70 year grandslam drought imagine how many new fans would be won for the sport in that important market.

On the technical side to me his second serve and forehand are not good enough to compete at the absoloute highest levels (Fed, Nadal, Djoko level) either. His forehand motion looks herky jerky and doesn't look like he gets enough body rotation. This creates two problems for andy when he tries to hit with spin he will just loop and float a spin shot that is easy to attack, and when he tries to flatten it out he makes too many errors because he doesn't get that tight rotation on the ball.

What is most disconcerting is that he has done nothing to technically change the forehand or the serve and that these two problems are the same exact weaknesses that he had on tour 7 years ago.

Now Andy ... here is your chance

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/

I dont think he will get a better offer

Well Lendl has no experience as a big time coach, but that being said his discipline, fitness, stoicism and legacy as a player can't do anything but help murray. He certainly would be a significant upgrade over Dani Vallverdu. Murray should definetly take the chance, what murray is weak at Lendl was great at. Namely the stoical approach and the big serve/forehand combination. It will tell a lot about Murray's make up if he is willing to make the change.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Now Andy ... here is your chance

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/

I dont think he will get a better offer

Thanks for posting this Haddie : )

Take him up on his offer Andy!!!

Solerina

Well ... what an interesting piece of news that is. This is by-the-by, but I didn't care much for Lendl in his playing days, BUT ... he had an unwavering approach to hard work, he was one of the first to pioneer fitness regimes in tennis, he had a steely mindset which was second to none, he had tactical nouse that he employed to good effect to work out how to beat his opponents AND he understands the disappointment of losing his first few slam finals but still found the way to win. I read a good piece on him last year, and it seems his ethos to sport continues and that he instilled the rigour of playing sport into his 4 daughters, and I think one is very good at golf. So he still seems this strict disciplinarian that perhaps Murray needs right now. I see many positives, but the only thing is ... just because you were a great player doesn't necessarily mean this will transfer over into being a good coach. I mean, someone prove me wrong please, but who amongst the big stars of the last 30 years has become a good coach?

Anything's worth a try though. Can it really do him any harm??

Yes I tend to agree wooffie most brilliant stars aren't really good coaches, although sometimes they are. I think Connors did a decent job for Andy Roddick, I just don't think Roddick had the talent to do much better than he did. So few of the big stars go out for coaching because they don't need the travel schedule and the hard life anymore. They've been there and done that. Again, like you said it can't hurt, it can't be any worse than dani vallverdu your best buddy being your coach.

Tony Roche was a great player and an even better coach.

Yes I too would agree.. how does the saying go "those that can do ... those who cant teach"... I think it translates into to tennis very well when you look at all the top coaches.. we know that Uncle T could play tennis but not at the level he has now coached Rafa to. The thing too about Lendl he always played what I considered "text book tennis" .. very clinical approach to the game. One of the most disliked players in the Locker Room I believe (as Im sure Agassi would agree).. I think he could be a bit of a bully on the quiet and so do I think Andy would stomach that kind of approach... ?? pass

Lendl, actually rewrote the textbook for tennis, I disliked him as a player. But looking back on Lendl he was probably the most influential player in the history of tennis. He was the first guy to dominate the game solely from the back of the court and the first player to dominate by using a big serve and big forehand combination. Lendl is like the Chuck Berry or little Richard of tour. He invented the modern game. heavy spin on the groundstrokes, and dominating the game as the first truely great power baseliner. Baseliners in the past like Bjorg or Connors were frequent and effective volleyers. But lendl, due to the new technology was the first guy to hit a lot of winners with heavy strokes and to be a true power baseliner.


Another interesting note he was the guy who first started to change racquets with every set of new balls. He did this to get consistency, his attention to detail was amazing.

Wooffie wrote:Well ... what an interesting piece of news that is. This is by-the-by, but I didn't care much for Lendl in his playing days, BUT ... he had an unwavering approach to hard work, he was one of the first to pioneer fitness regimes in tennis, he had a steely mindset which was second to none, he had tactical nouse that he employed to good effect to work out how to beat his opponents AND he understands the disappointment of losing his first few slam finals but still found the way to win. I read a good piece on him last year, and it seems his ethos to sport continues and that he instilled the rigour of playing sport into his 4 daughters, and I think one is very good at golf. So he still seems this strict disciplinarian that perhaps Murray needs right now. I see many positives, but the only thing is ... just because you were a great player doesn't necessarily mean this will transfer over into being a good coach. I mean, someone prove me wrong please, but who amongst the big stars of the last 30 years has become a good coach?

Anything's worth a try though. Can it really do him any harm??

A very insightful post there woofie....thank you.

Here's a quote from a book I have, it isn't about tennis, the author is just using tennis as an example....I looked it out earlier when I first read Haddie's link.

I don't know if any of you would agree with this, but thought it worth posting on here.

Players who are able to relax in brief moments of inactivity are almost always the ones who end up coming through when the game is on the line. That is why the eminent tennis players of their day, such as Ivan Lendl and Pete Sampras, had those strangely predictable routines of serenly picking their rackets between points, whether they won or lost the last exchange, while their rivals fumed at a bad ball missed or pumped a fist in excitement

I think Andy might well listen to someone like Ivan Lendl.......but maybe that's wishful thinking......after all I don't know how Andy is thinking or feeling about all of this.

It's a very exciting prospect.....Andy being coached by Lendl!

Solerina

It can't do anything but help him Solerina. If any of lendl can rub off on Andy then it is good thing. One thing is true Lendl takes things seriously and he has the authoritas and gravitas to make murray do things that he maybe he is not comfortable doing. Murray will not get that from his mum and his mates.

No he wont but it still begs the question as to whether he can take the very strict coaching I believe he will get from Lendl... he took no prisoners on court and I doubt he will off .. If Andy is prepared to buckle down I believe he will benefit greatly from the man (who I personally never liked) but who undoubtedly was a great champion

Andy is a great tennis player but his mind-set leaves a lot to
be desired !

He is too pig-headed for his own good and the sooner
he realises this the better because things cannot continue
this way !! I want to grab him by the lapels and shake some
sense into him !!!

Hopefully, Andy takes this opportunity, if any of Lendl's knowledge and mindset ruboff on andy then it can only be a positive. Andy currently is the guy who keeps trying the same thing over and over again hoping to get a different result. If Dani and part time Alex could have helped you to a grandslam they would have done it by now. Hopefully, Lendl can help him on his forehand. That was a shot that Ivan just owned when he played.

News doesn´t get any better Andy it seems



http://eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/

Another way of looking at it I suppose Haddie, is that he's clearing out the old in order to make way for the new.

Of course it means he's really on his own for the moment ... but perhaps there's shortly other announcements to be made and matters such as Corretja have to be sorted out first.

Well Wooffie I hope you are right. I have never been a great fan of Andy´s I would be the first to admit. However, I do not like to see "things" go to waste and as a fan of tennis I , like all on this forum, know talent when I see it. At times I want to shake him and try to make him realise what it is he is throwing away if he does not come to realise what it is he needs, (which is not the same thing as what he wants) As Ive said before "dont be remembered as a wasted talent Andy"
I hope for him and the world of tennis (especially British tennis) he wakes up before its too late.

Hi all

Not totally surprised by the parting of the ways between Andy and Alex...but to be honest I'm not really sure it ever worked in the first place.

Interesting about Lendl.....couldn't stand him or his Tennis, but his work ethic was second to none and I can imaging him not taking any nonsense from anyone. He's been away from the game for quite a long time and could bring a really fresh approach to Andy's game.

However, I still think the main problem is between the ears, yes he can be coached so that his game is tuned to a fine degree, but if his brain turns to mush once he gets into a competitive match, that's going to be a lot more difficult to deal with, and I get the impression that Lendl is a man with a very short fuse, and I can see a real clash of personalities.

Breaking up with Corretja has probably come at the right time although wasn't his input originally related to Clay Court tennis which is coming up next!!

What did he bring to the table? bearing in mind he wasn't even in Andys corner at the AO final although it wouldn't have made any difference, but never the less.

He needs new blood to get him going again - Lendl or A N other but he must get something done now.

Morning folks,

I was watching the totally gorgeous Dan Lobb present the sports news this morning on Daybreak, and he announced that reports are suggesting that Ivan Lendl could become Andy's new coach, within the next two weeks.

Now we know this but hearing it on the main news has really got my hopes up

Solerina

Hi solerina

It is POTENTIALLY great news, but knowing oor Andy I won't
get my hopes up too high until all the *ts* are crossed and
the *is* dotted. 8)

That would be great if Andy does it, I could see him having a very good second half of the year. And it is also nice to see Ivan back and actively involved with the tour.

What has happened to andy? Well he has won gold at London 2012 and even won the US Open in 2012

May 2011:

socal1976 wrote:His forehand is still suspect, his second serve is still too weak, he needs a strong coach to add something to his game.

Socal
Diagnosis was spot on (at the time).

Not sure why TOC randomly brought this thread up though.

Yeah, that was two years ago, different player and my analysis was pretty correct. He needed a top notch coach and to get his forehand and second serve better. If anything my post was spot on and Dani vallverdu wasn't getting it done as his coach and the areas I highlighted were dramatically improved. Is there a murray fan who thinks that the three points that I made were not valid at the time.

Thaks TOC for showing me just how much of a sage I really am.

No one knows what has happened to Andy. He's been doing secret training again with Lendl or not with Lendl as the case may be.

Socal

I don't think many disagreed at the time either - Murray was clearly the 4th best player at the time and just lacked a bit of an edge in a few areas that would close the gap on the three above him.

Forehand - cross court was always good, but he's improved the in-to-out stroke, hitting harder and closer to the line with consistency.

Second serve - still an area where there is room for improvement, especially when he's under pressure. I'd like to see Andy less reliant on the kick serve, as when he gets tight he doesn't get through the ball enough and just dollies the ball down at <120km/h. Having an effective slice or flatter second serve would be a big improvement.

Coach - I think Lendl has done good things in terms of getting into Andy's head and making him believe in his game a little more.

It all comes down to the odd 1% gain here and there that make the difference between a contender and a champion, and Lendl has helped Andy greatly in 2 of the 3 areas where there was a gain to be made.

Dummy - good post.

Couple of things in addition to the ones you've mentioned are notable changes:

Aggression on second shot. If his opponent gets his serve back, Murray really goes for his second shot on either side. Djokovic has stated it's the biggest difference in playing him now compared to a couple of years ago. Lots more quick points on his own serve due to this, particularly first serve.

Court position. He now plays mostly right on the baseline, as opposed to 2 metres behind it. An Andy interview a while ago said that Lendl told him it was imperative as that would mean him doing less running and his opponent doing more. Andy was worried about how susceptible he would be to good length, and Lendl told him he's skilled enough to hit balls on the rise or even half volley regularly.

Those 2 things, alongside a vastly improved forehand, are the major differences in his game nowadays.

dummy_half wrote:Socal

I don't think many disagreed at the time either - Murray was clearly the 4th best player at the time and just lacked a bit of an edge in a few areas that would close the gap on the three above him.

Forehand - cross court was always good, but he's improved the in-to-out stroke, hitting harder and closer to the line with consistency.

Second serve - still an area where there is room for improvement, especially when he's under pressure. I'd like to see Andy less reliant on the kick serve, as when he gets tight he doesn't get through the ball enough and just dollies the ball down at <120km/h. Having an effective slice or flatter second serve would be a big improvement.

Coach - I think Lendl has done good things in terms of getting into Andy's head and making him believe in his game a little more.

It all comes down to the odd 1% gain here and there that make the difference between a contender and a champion, and Lendl has helped Andy greatly in 2 of the 3 areas where there was a gain to be made.

Yes I find it very odd that this thread was brought up. I don't even know if the TOC had any issue with my positions. He seems to think I was disrespecting Andy I wasn't. Remember at that time he was slumping brutally and had been manhandled in the AO final. As to his second serve in that final he didn't even win 30 percent of second serve points. And of course the big addition I think as you highlight was Lendl and the help he has been, a huge success for Andy's belief more than anything.