LV Cup Final - Teams are up

Leicester Tigers (v Northampton Saints, LV= Cup Final, Sixways, Sunday 3pm)
15 Geordan Murphy (c)
14 Horacio Agulla
13 Matt Smith
12 Billy Twelvetrees
11 Scott Hamilton
10 George Ford
9 James Grindal
1 Boris Stankovich
2 Rob Hawkins
3 Logoviii Mulipola
4 George Skivington
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Steve Mafi
7 Craig Newby
8 Thomas Waldrom

Replacements
16 Tom Youngs
17 Marcos Ayerza
18 Julian White
19 Calum Green
20 Julian Salvi
21 Scott Steele
22 Toby Flood
23 Andy Forsyth

Northampton Saints
15 Paul Diggin
14 Vasily Artemyev
13 George Pisi
12 James Downey
11 Scott Armstrong
10 Stephen Myler
9 Martin Roberts
1 Soane Tonga'uiha
2 Andy Long
3 Paul Doran Jones
4 James Craig
5 Christian Day
6 Calum Clark (c)
7 Tom Wood
8 Roger Wilson

Replacements
16 Ross McMillan
17 Alex Waller
18 Brian Mujati
19 Mark Sorenson
20 Ben Nutley
21 Ryan Glynn
22 Ryan Lamb
23 Tom May

Saints are looking marginally stronger with Tigers still keeping some of the younger guys in. Should be a good game but shame Lewington isn't fit to take part he looked good against Bath.

I would definately have had Alex in for Hamilton, who hasn't impressed of late, but otherwise, no problem with that selection.

If the two teams met in the playoffs I would expect 3 of the tigers starting XV to start (Murphy, Agulla and Waldrom). Depending on fitness (and form) 36 and Skivington may start ahead of Allen and Slater.

Looking at the Saints line-up perhaps 10 of those would start a play-off match.

On that basis Saints do look to have the stronger line-up for this match.

Bath put a first team out in the semis, din't help them any..

Northampton are better than Bath though.

Oh well thats that then

I hope we can win, but that line-up from Saints is pretty strong.

I think if Tigers can stay close until the cavalry turn up then they will win. The Tigers have the stronger bench which should give them a good impact later in the game should they need it. Saints aren't so lucky but do have a fearsome pack to start with. Tiny vs Mulipola is going to be a BIG one that's for sure.

Aha, finally we move to the big match of the weekend

My first thought when reading the team was damn, that's harsh on Lewington after the Bath game but then I read the comment at the bottom. Surprised White isn't starting, thought it may have been his swansong so to speak. Agree that Saints have the stronger starting 15 (on paper anyway) but the Tigers have the better bench and if we're not ahead at the break then I can't see us playing catch up in the second half with any success. Think the only reason he has recalled Downey to start is to try and negate Waldrum running down the 10/12 channel, otherwise he would have stuck with May. I'm still predicting a Tigers win though - your second / young team against Bath looked stronger than our first / young team last week.

I count 8 first teamers for Saints by the way.

I expect leicester to win this one, they just have that extra something when it comes to knock out matches and if they get the silverware here then Cockers will be a bit more relaxed!

Saints have struggled to click recently while Tigers having been working through the gears nicely.

My 10 were:

Pisi, Downey, Myler and one of teh back 3 on teh wing (alongside Foden, Ashton & Dickson)

In the pack I felt that PDJ had moved ahead of Mooooj and so only Long and Craig would not start in a play-off match.

You could make an argument for either 8 or 10 depending on Artemyev or Elliott at 11 (prefer Elliott myself, equally dangerous in attack but stronger in defense from what I've seen) and Clark or Dowson at 6. I honestly don't know what JM feels is his best backrow anymore now that Wood is fit again. Start of the season it was certainly Wood, Clark & Wilson but after the poor start to the HC JM stated that the team really missed Dowson when he wan't starting. Mind you by this time Clark was injured so I guess he could have been trying to give Dowson the old psychological boost. I agree that Doran-Jones has moved ahead of the Mooooj, based mainly on DJ's workrate around the park and plus Majarti is probably the better impact player. Like you know all to well at the Tigers it's great to have 2 quality TH's in the squad, regardless of the cost.

Either way I still think you will win, as yappysnap states your a damn fine knockout team and without Dickson and Foden we have looked totally flat and nonthreatening in the backs. Plus you nearly always beat us anyway, regardless of what team we put out. And your even wearing your home strip and we're in white!

Are you going LT? or Sam?

Sadly no, as I start work at 5am on Monday. My brother is going with his eldest son instead.

Good game so far

16-9 to the Tigers at halftime.

Try for Mafi and Tigers pack well on top. Saints need to step up a gear in the second half.
Ford looking assured at FH.

Anyone see Calum Clarke dislocating Hawkins' arm in that ruck! Disgusting.

Well played the Tigers so far. Some cracking play. Saints need to up their game.

Mujati on for PDJ should stop the penalties at scrum time.

Wow that first scrum with Moo in made a huge difference.

Ford and Pisi in particular having very good games

SCOTTY!

Shocker!
Saints finally putting on some good pressure & Hamilton snaffles an intercept mispass from Myler

maverickmak wrote:Anyone see Calum Clarke dislocating Hawkins' arm in that ruck! Disgusting.

Well played the Tigers so far. Some cracking play. Saints need to up their game.

Theres a thread on Planetrugby about this. Claims he literally bent Hawkins elbow the wrong way until it dislocated. Is this true? He will be gone for a long long time if it is.

What a game!

Cockers deep in conversation with Callum Clarke after the game.

I didn't see the incident but I hope for Clarke it's not as bad as it sounds.


That aside yes a great game played in the right spirit (I think!)

Standulstermen wrote:

maverickmak wrote:Anyone see Calum Clarke dislocating Hawkins' arm in that ruck! Disgusting.

Well played the Tigers so far. Some cracking play. Saints need to up their game.

Theres a thread on Planetrugby about this. Claims he literally bent Hawkins elbow the wrong way until it dislocated. Is this true? He will be gone for a long long time if it is.

if someone can tell me when it happened i'll get it up on youtube.

Got to admit though, that was a brilliant game!

Loved the tackle by Mulipola on Tonga'uiha!

Happened about 20m in I think, in a ruck on the Tigers 22, after Tonga'huia broke through the middle of a ruck.

So proud of the Tigers defensive effort. Amazing effort. Saints threw everything. A bit lucky not to get carded earlier, but still held out manfully for the last 10 minutes with 14.

Move over Tonga'huia, Mulipola is the new beast on the block!

I loved the scrum battle once Moooj came on.

Saints scrummage very high and are so strong if they get it high they can shove you back at pace. Tigers responded by pulling in tight and keeping it low shoving Saints of a fair few.

And Ford had a very good game indeed. I really think that Tobias will be second choice at the club by the end of next season.

Congratulations on the cup win Tiggers, bit of a no mark tin-pot if you ask me, but hey - they all count I suppose.

PJHolybloke wrote:Congratulations on the cup win Tiggers, bit of a no mark tin-pot if you ask me, but hey - they all count I suppose.

well at least your consistent! lol

It is indeed a tin pot cup. What excites me more is that after struggling at the start of the season the fringe players stood up really well against first a strong Bath selection at the Rec, then a very strong Saints team today.

Looking forward to the end of season run in with some optimism.

Standulstermen wrote:

maverickmak wrote:Anyone see Calum Clarke dislocating Hawkins' arm in that ruck! Disgusting.

Well played the Tigers so far. Some cracking play. Saints need to up their game.

Theres a thread on Planetrugby about this. Claims he literally bent Hawkins elbow the wrong way until it dislocated. Is this true? He will be gone for a long long time if it is.

just been on that forum, what a lovely bunch of people lol

It is indeed a tin pot. And sadly the Tigers have become the first team to qualify for the HEC albeit via a dodgy side-entrance.

But what I'm happy to report that a new-born puppy has arrived.

Hopefully it'll grow into a proper dog to replace the one that died ten years ago.

just copying the match on to my pc but it's going to take an hour. grrrrr

I'll let you know when i've put it on youtube.

meh, went the camera root!

IMO he should be banned, no questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPnSrqCYxwQ

someones put a better one up here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d_5Vlsyekio

I must be blind - but cannot see what is wrong. Thought it was his left arm that was hurt - which Clark was lying on but not grabbing.

LondonTiger wrote:I must be blind - but cannot see what is wrong. Thought it was his left arm that was hurt - which Clark was lying on but not grabbing.

seriously?

Hawkins was laying down. Whistle blown then Clarke grabbed hawkins right arm and twisted it around as he got up.

That's a bit naughty - expect a citing for that one.

what pee's me off is that ref was looking straight at it!!

that is more than a bit naughty. that is nuts. he bends his arm back until something gives. bloody hell thats vicious

Seriously snide then Stand? I was being a bit sardonic to be honest.

Whichever way you call it I would say that's a citing for sure, serious foul play that should bring a 4-8 weeker Clarke's way.

The fact that Hawkins is trapped in there goes right against any mitigating circumstances Clarke can dredge up.

I dont know PJ it might be more than that. Its quite fortunate that none of the Leicester players saw that as there would have been a full scale brawl. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. Intent, is always the hardest thing to prove but as you quite rightly say, there is little mitigation there given that the whistle appears to have gone and Hawkins arm is trapped.

I would also say if there is a camera angle from the other side it would be illuminating.

Standulstermen wrote:I dont know PJ it might be more than that. Its quite fortunate that none of the Leicester players saw that as there would have been a full scale brawl. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. Intent, is always the hardest thing to prove but as you quite rightly say, there is little mitigation there given that the whistle appears to have gone and Hawkins arm is trapped.

I would also say if there is a camera angle from the other side it would be illuminating.

It is very strange on how it's gone all quite about the incident. Pundits, the clubs etc. Wondering if a criminal case if being thought of?

EDIT: there was a few mentions of it on the tigers twitter feed, but they've just been removed?

Could be sub-judice already then Nathan?

That's the kind of nasty shoite that needs stamping out of the game with extreme prejudice, that kind of arm twisting can result in serious ligament damage which is very difficult to fully recover from.

I guess it would come under serious foul play - what's the maximum tariff on that?

nathan wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I must be blind - but cannot see what is wrong. Thought it was his left arm that was hurt - which Clark was lying on but not grabbing.

seriously?

Hawkins was laying down. Whistle blown then Clarke grabbed hawkins right arm and twisted it around as he got up.

Mea culpa.

I was looking at Roberts who is lying on Hawkins (I must have mistaken the 9 on his back for a 6

Nasty- the thing is with all the semi judo that's slowly kreeping in to rucks nowdays this type of thing was bound to happen sooner or later. Clarke will be lucky to only get a ban.

Maybe after this the IRB will look into some of the rucking styles that go on, things like scrumcap pulling, necklocks and dragging players by the ankles.

I remember in the first HEC match between Saints and Scarlets, Ashton did a nasty clear out of North at a ruck by pulling his leg up at a really awkward and not natural angle, and North went off injured afterwards.

Tis definitely something that's creeping into the game more I agree, although I think the answer to stop all of these types of things is to bring back the old style of rucking!

rugbydreamer wrote:I remember in the first HEC match between Saints and Scarlets, Ashton did a nasty clear out of North at a ruck by pulling his leg up at a really awkward and not natural angle, and North went off injured afterwards.

Tis definitely something that's creeping into the game more I agree, although I think the answer to stop all of these types of things is to bring back the old style of rucking!

+1

Rip the jerseys from their backs!

Hell of a deterrent for going over the top.