Munster v Leinster

First topic message reminder :

Here we go again.

Travelling in hope but not expectation. Would be great to win this one, but I would settle for a LBP and no (more) injuries.

Apparently there is hope on Mike Ross and Jamie Hagan. No word on White. They usually release an injury update on Mondays at lunchtime.

Don't fancy facing DuPreeyahhh and Botha with Jack McGrath at th. It was a credit to him as a first year LOOSE head prop that he did not get injured in those scrums against some serious experience and power

BTW. This is a Munster v Leinster thread. Ulster posters through the trademans' entrance please.
Thank you for coming to the big game. We appreciate your interest.

Up till tonight. And, I never thought I'd say this. But. Ulster will beat Munster next week. Its going to happen.

They are vunerable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVAnlke_xUY

Ah well at least your taste in music is good Gibbo

munster though alway seem to pull of big performances in big games look at last year against us in the rabo final and against the saints away u can never bet against them

Munster lacked urgency tonight, weren't incredibly creative and our set pieces were poor that's worrying. Our defence is up there with the best in Europe though and Zebo is a star in the making, he is improving his positioning by the weak and is becoming more solid in defence.

[quote="LeinsterFan4life"]munster though alway seem to pull of big performances in big games look at last year against us in the rabo final and against the saints away u can never bet against them[/quote]

I had bet for them to make the HC Final. Before tonight. Something's not right at Munster.

McGahan leaving? Part of it. They just look insecure right now.

Leinster barely got out of 2nd-gear and still coasted.

Major disparity.

That's what was worrying, in my mind. No intensity, no urgency. Nothing. It was flat. I would expect them to lift it but going from nothing to all systems go is pretty difficult.
Different sport, but same thing last night in Cork City v Bray.

your right zebo is looking a class act i was crying out for him to be on the ireland team.also madigan is really gonna push sexton for that number 10 shirt

Thomond wrote:Just back, quick synopsis, I thought we were ridden at the breakdown, (I haven't seen the game on TV though so keep that in mind) the scrums we we were lucky to get some penalties, Marcus was getting killed and Healy took it to Botha later on. Leinster were the far better team and it proved. Sexton played solidly, he didn't have to be outstanding but he did everything well. Thorn is a great operator, but the lineouts were pathetic. Not all on Varley, but a lot of it is, the jumpers were not getting in front of their men and that's lineout play 101. Fitzgerald was the best Leinster back with ball in hand, trying to prove he is worth the cash he is looking for.


Leinster are simply a class above, whatever about injuries and all that stuff, the depth they have is unreal. Worth more than that winning margin (should have had a penalty try, Johne Murphy pulled Isa back at one stage) Downey is also pretty average.

That Thomond. Keep writing bro. Its refreshing.

I said at the start of the year Madigan is better than Sexton, I don't rate Johnny as highly as others, he is the best Ireland has to offer but I think he is a bit overated, Madigan looks to be a more rounded player

Also rumour that Healy might be cited, for stamping on POM, this was on Munsterfans though so could be a load, I did notcie an incident between them.

Gibbo, I would but there's that thing we all like called sleep. Also having to run around for 90 minutes in the middle of the park tomorrow....

Thomond wrote:That's what was worrying, in my mind. No intensity, no urgency. Nothing. It was flat. I would expect them to lift it but going from nothing to all systems go is pretty difficult.
Different sport, but same thing last night in Cork City v Bray.

Love the analogy T.

Are you any connection to Jimmy McGee?

The memory man? Nah boy, just annoyed at a shoite weekend of watching, and helping out with sport!

i hope healy hasnt done somethin stupid again i thought we had his discipline under control.

Thomond wrote:The memory man? Nah boy, just annoyed at a shoite weekend of watching, and helping out with sport!

Keep the Faith big man.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:fair play to ya gibbo for talking some sense.paddy wallace is an awful player and it still amazes me to this day as to how he was ever involved in the ireland setup.ulster fans seem to think that if an ulster player is anyway half decent he should be on the ireland team.

Fan,
Yup. But ye have to be gentle with them. Tokenism is a sore point for some reason. Just say yeah ... maybe.

Be grand.

Ulster fans have overhyped average PRO12 players as possible internationals, for years now.

Paddy Bloody Wallace is a prime example of sporting & political over-compensation.

Everyone knows that.

Outside of Ulster that is.

As an Ulster fan, Paddy has been fantastic for us, but has never really proven how good he is in an Ireland shirt. His presence in the Ireland set-up is to do with that said ability, but also Kidney's stubborn loyalty to players he likes without them actually producing the goods for Ireland anytime recently - eg. D'arcy, DOC and other Munster/Leinster players who spend a lot of time sitting on their provinces' benches...

So Gibson, maybe stop the obsession with Ulster players and your politics, and look at the big issue - Kidney is a cr@p coach who picks his favourites, and Munster players benefit from this a lot more than Ulster's do!

Wallace and Cave are the class centres in Ireland - well they certainly looked it the other night.

Wallace is a touch small - that's his main draw-back

Interesting to note that the majority of Ireland's tries in the last 6N campaign were scored by the few of Ulster's over-hyped players that make it into the "national" reckoning.

I think Kidney is an average coach - he kind of sometimes gets there in the end - like dropping Fitz - but is generally overly loyal to his own kind - just he isn't really an Irish coach his view of Ireland is a bit limited.

Still, it's up to the Ulster boys to prove it next week

I think whats clear after this weekends games is that Ian Madigan is the prince and Paddy Wallace the king of Irish rugby .

Isa Nacewa isn't bad ether.

Anyone else worried about BOD's form? I know hes just back from long term injury but he looked well off the pace. I hate to say it but he looked everyone off his 33 years out there. Leinster might be better served starting O'Malley next week.

Scrum was a shambles and ruined the game. Horan should have been carded early and then we might have seen a decent game.

Every time I have managed to see Nacewa what comes across is what is between his ears - he seems to have a fantastic understanding of what he should be doing and his execution isn't bad either

Jus watching the game back now again:

Munster have quite a few issues that need solving (some will be fixed by the return of the 3 injured lads)

Why are they so uncreative. They seem so happy to either kick or use one off runners off 9 or 10. It is so archaic and against physical and fit teams it isn't very effective. Seeing Felix Jones yesterday was quite depressing I thought, he rarely went for the opposition like he really can. Was very disappointed. Their breakdown work is varied, there isn't a good base level of rucking. Varley is good and POM but Horan is poor. It's a weird one.

Also the scrum was poor don't know how Horan kept getting away with stepping off the mark. Lineout was poor too. Need to improve hugely I feel for Ulster and like I said the 3 returning injured lads will help.

Leinster were ok. Didn't get into 5th gear. Lineout was good and our kicking game was very good from a lot of our backs. Breakdown work was good and we created some chances just wish we'd finished one. At least we did create though

O'Driscoll was puffed but he was playing Leinster's nemesis side two games in to a comeback (jury still out on the injury and whether it has been completely solved - but I think match fitness and ability to compete, if the shoulder issue truely has been solved, will return to him).
Anyway, two games back and 2nd one against Munster was always going to show - even Nacewa was saying he was knackered after playing what was probably his toughest game of the year.

Not a lot of panache on display by either side but I saw two sides virtually cancelling each other out for most of the game with Leinster's ability to up the tempo and their bench replacements telling in the end.

I still think Munster are prepared to sacrifice a good bit of kudos in this year's Pro12 to get back some dominance in the HC - so I don't really know how to read Munster's true performance capability from that game.... or Leinster's for that matter.

Anyone know anything about this Michael Bent fella we've signed from the S15?

Irish qualified prop apparently.

Yeah, well, there is the small matter of the opposition also wanting to win in the ERC games.

Mickado wrote:Anyone know anything about this Michael Bent fella we've signed from the S15?

Irish qualified prop apparently.

Huh? Where you get this from Mick?
IQ props who have the ball skills from the SH would be very welcome

But before they are let go it probably means they can scrummage like a Court or Buckley.

Court is a good LH scrummager

It's in the Indo today Pete. A replacement for White it seems. Not sure where Hagan fits in but this fella can play both sides apparently.

Going on last night's performance, what are the odds on these two teams meeting up again this season:

1) In the semi playoffs of the Pro12
2) Grand Final of the Pro12
3) European Cup Final?

The odds are high Pot HALE.

Oh very nice will check that out now

Glas a du wrote:Yeah, well, there is the small matter of the opposition also wanting to win in the ERC games.

Glas, was that directed at my comment?

Anyone else think both centre partnerships were pretty average in that game? Creativity was sparse from both centres.

SecretFly wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Yeah, well, there is the small matter of the opposition also wanting to win in the ERC games.

Glas, was that directed at my comment?

Yes, but reading back it appears a little blunt. What I'm trying to say is that the may find it more difficult than previously.

Glas a du wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Yeah, well, there is the small matter of the opposition also wanting to win in the ERC games.

Glas, was that directed at my comment?

Yes, but reading back it appears a little blunt. What I'm trying to say is that the may find it more difficult than previously.

They may do..., wasn't my suggestion that either Leinster or Munster will float into a final. But I'm sensing more than enough evidence to tell me that Munster are much more focused on HC this year, and if that means slipping and sliding around the Pro12 circuit, and keeping their powder dry in the process, then I think that's their mood this year.

They might prove me wrong and not have anything left for an assault on HC but it's not how I'm reading their year, or their loss to Leinster last night. That's all I was saying...

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Anyone else think both centre partnerships were pretty average in that game? Creativity was sparse from both centres.

That game was all about defence. Munster v Leinster games are usually won or lost by penalties. Rarely more than 1 try scored. Leinster & Munster (& Ospreys) have the best defences in the Magners.


Otherwise - well done Leinster. Told you that you would win this one. No disrespect to either team, but it was an awful game.

Thomond wrote:I said at the start of the year Madigan is better than Sexton, I don't rate Johnny as highly as others, he is the best Ireland has to offer but I think he is a bit overated, Madigan looks to be a more rounded player

Also rumour that Healy might be cited, for stamping on POM, this was on Munsterfans though so could be a load, I did notcie an incident between them.

Gibbo, I would but there's that thing we all like called sleep. Also having to run around for 90 minutes in the middle of the park tomorrow....

I also said the same thing about Madigan (& Sexton). Madigan has a bit to go yet, but maybe the IRFU knew what they were doing when they only gave Sexton a 2 year contract last time.

Yeah Sin, both teams were immense in defence. Though, players like Nacewa, Kearney and Fitz injected a bit of creativity and spark into the game at times. Earls, BOD etc I thought were pretty average in comparison. Earls was especially anonymous.

Madigan is another guy who came on and injected some pace and creativity into the game.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yeah Sin, both teams were immense in defence. Though, players like Nacewa, Kearney and Fitz injected a bit of creativity and spark into the game at times. Earls, BOD etc I thought were pretty average in comparison. Earls was especially anonymous.

Don't agree with you about Earls being anonymous. He put in a decent shift defensively. Hard to be creative if you busy defending.

Nacewa was Leinster's major creative player and he still didn't breach Munster (very young and inexperienced) back three.

With ball in hand, you are attacking, not defending. Every time Earls got the ball he looked a bit clueless.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:With ball in hand, you are attacking, not defending. Every time Earls got the ball he looked a bit clueless.

Leinster have a decent defence

Rory, so given what you witnessed last night, what do think - Munster v Ulster? Do you think you've seen anything from last night that might throw some light on how that game will go?

Thought Jennings was exceptional last night. Had a greater baring on the result than Isa who looked good all the same. He very very unlucky not to get over for a try.

What I couldn't understand about RTE was that they were all saying that Madigan should maybe move to another team to get more game time but he's played far more than Sexton this year...

SecretFly wrote:Rory, so given what you witnessed last night, what do think - Munster v Ulster? Do you think you've seen anything from last night that might throw some light on how that game will go?

Well I don't think Ulster are as good in defence as either Munster or Leinster.. we tend to give away soft tries at times when we have a lapse in concentration. We should dominate the set piece I think, but breaching the Munster defence is going to be very difficult.

If I was doing a player comparison of the two teams, to see which individuals are better, it would look like this for me:

Du Preez/Court - Tied
Varley/Best - Best
Botha/Afoa - Tied
Ryan/Muller - Ryan
O'Connell/Tuohy - O'Connell
O'Mahony/Ferris - Ferris
Wallace/Henry - Wallace
Coughlan/Wannenburg - Wannenburg
O'Leary/Pienaar - Pienaar
O'Gara/Humphreys - O'Gara
Zebo/Gilroy - Zebo
Mafi/Wallace - Wallace
Earls/Cave - Tied
Murphy/Trimble - Trimble
Jones/Terblanche - Jones

So it is pretty even stuff, based on that anyway.

Mickado wrote:Thought Jennings was exceptional last night. Had a greater baring on the result than Isa who looked good all the same. He very very unlucky not to get over for a try.

What I couldn't understand about RTE was that they were all saying that Madigan should maybe move to another team to get more game time but he's played far more than Sexton this year...

Yeah... some people think too much of a good thing is bad karma. Ask the player what he wants might be a solution to the conundrum.

Rory, it would be:

It will be
Muller v DOC
Ferris v D Ryan
Henry v POM
Pienaar v Murray

It could also be Hurley v Terblanche

Mickado wrote:Thought Jennings was exceptional last night. Had a greater baring on the result than Isa who looked good all the same. He very very unlucky not to get over for a try.

What I couldn't understand about RTE was that they were all saying that Madigan should maybe move to another team to get more game time but he's played far more than Sexton this year...

Wasn't that Hook who made that remark? I think people are taking it far too seriously.

Madigan has got plenty of gametime this year purely because Sexton was at the world cup and then got time off as well. He was also lucky that Berquest was injured. Keatley was a bit unlucky as well during the 6Ns because ROG didn't get a lot of gametime so needed the time with Munster (Munster players not starting in the 6Ns were parachuted into the game away against Treviso).

Sin é wrote:Rory, it would be:

It will be
Muller v DOC
Ferris v D Ryan
Henry v POM
Pienaar v Murray

It could also be Hurley v Terblanche

Is Murray going to be back for this game? Also, if Wallace does not start, I doubt Ryan will play 6, but DOCv2 will.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Sin é wrote:Rory, it would be:

It will be
Muller v DOC
Ferris v D Ryan
Henry v POM
Pienaar v Murray

It could also be Hurley v Terblanche

Is Murray going to be back for this game? Also, if Wallace does not start, I doubt Ryan will play 6, but DOCv2 will.

As likely to be back as POC is. Both were cleared to train next week.

Ryan has played a fair bit at 6. Started there in the Magners Final last season and against Northampton in the Heineken Cup.

Well I hope your players come back, would rather watch a great game with two full sides playing than either side missing players (POC, Ferris etc). Also, I know Ryan plays 6 often, but he should play second row with DOCv2 at 6. He deserves to keep the 6 shirt. Unless Wallace starts, then POM should move to 6 with DOCv2 on the bench. Or POM at 8 with Coughlan benched.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well I hope your players come back, would rather watch a great game with two full sides playing than either side missing players (POC, Ferris etc). Also, I know Ryan plays 6 often, but he should play second row with DOCv2 at 6. He deserves to keep the 6 shirt. Unless Wallace starts, then POM should move to 6 with DOCv2 on the bench. Or POM at 8 with Coughlan benched.

Ryan is another lineout option and also adds a bit more experience in the backrow. I'd never bench Coughlan. He has been brilliant this season.

DOCv2 to bench.

your right coughlan is having a great season.i was suprised not to see him in the wolfhounds team