Keeping it real or real dumb?

Ever wondered why big name fighters can't be asked to learn the english language?

I know this might sound condersending coming from an english speaker but surley for the good of the sport its a must. I know that some argue that what happens in the ring is all that matters but to transend the sport you need to communicate with the public.

So many of our stars are from latin America and the pressure to 'stay real' as a Mexican, Peurto Rican, or Cuban is tarnishing the sport because they are not accessable to the wider public not to mention the earning potential they will miss.

Felix Trinidad is famous for being Mr Peurto Rico. He never learned english and promoted his identity proudly. He is respected as a national hero back in his home country but outside of boxing he is not very well known, for all his great work. Chavez was the same. Could have been huge but kept himself too tightly bonded to Me-ki-co. And Chavez was not stupid he had a law degree so I am sure he could have grasped a little english in his long career...but no.

Cotto is another exarmple. Now Canelo is being lined up as the next big superstar of boxing. He has the talent, some say the looks too (but obviously I don't) and he is young. I only hope Golden boy will encourage him to if not master the english tongue then at least come across lucid enough for us to understand.

Again not tyying to be condersending, what do you guys think?

Duran could speak English but chose not to.

Why dont English speaking fighters learn Spanish?

Well the money in boxing, the exposure, the cross over demands english.
The K- brothers, for all their faults at least make an effort which means they can come over to ENGLAND and sell fights. How many people really knew much about Wladimir before the haye fight? Yet he came over here and spoke good english and even won over a great number of fans in doing so.

Boxing needs stars more then ever. Mexicans hated De La Hoya for a period because he came across too American yet he blew up across the world a promoters dream no need for an interpreter.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Well the money in boxing, the exposure, the cross over demands english.
The K- brothers, for all their faults at least make an effort which means they can come over to ENGLAND and sell fights. How many people really knew much about Wladimir before the haye fight? Yet he came over here and spoke good english and even won over a great number of fans in doing so.

Boxing needs stars more then ever. Mexicans hated De La Hoya for a period because he came across too American yet he blew up across the world a promoters dream no need for an interpreter.

Duran, Tito et al are huge in the spanish speaking world. Benn hardly causes a ripple in USA. Neither does Eubank. Hopkins can walk down Oxford Street and no-one would recognise him.

Cotto speaks very good English.

I think many speak English but choose not to. Martinez apparently speaks passable English but just refuses to speak and speaks in his native tongue where he's comfortable so fair enough.

Us English speakers are generally very lazy and negative at learning any other language so I don't blame others if they feel the same.

If you're good and exciting enough you don't need to worry about if they can speak English.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Felix Trinidad is famous for being Mr Peurto Rico. He never learned english and promoted his identity proudly. He is respected as a national hero back in his home country but outside of boxing he is not very well known, for all his great work. Chavez was the same. Could have been huge but kept himself too tightly bonded to Me-ki-co. And Chavez was not stupid he had a law degree so I am sure he could have grasped a little english in his long career...but no.

How many boxers actually transend the sport though?

Lucky to get 1-2 / generation.

ODLH could probably walk through London and go unrecognised by 90% of people and he's probably the most famous fighter since Tyson.

I don't mean to be condersending either but are you sure you're an English speaker?

Anyway it doesn't matter if you speak English or not if you have the talent you'll make your mark. The issues with the sport that we all complain about proliferation of titles, lack of coverage on terrestrial TV etc are what makes it difficult for fighters to cross over rather than their inability to speak English.

Manny Pacquiao doesn't exactly speak great English other than thanking god and telling us its going to be a great fight but he's still massive worldwide. Lionel Messi's arguably the most famous sportsman in the world at the moment and I've never heard him speak English.

alma wrote:

paperbag_puncher wrote:I don't mean to be condersending either but are you sure you're an English speaker?

Anyway it doesn't matter if you speak English or not if you have the talent you'll make your mark. The issues with the sport that we all complain about proliferation of titles, lack of coverage on terrestrial TV etc are what makes it difficult for fighters to cross over rather than their inability to speak English.

Manny Pacquiao doesn't exactly speak great English other than thanking god and telling us its going to be a great fight but he's still massive worldwide. Lionel Messi's arguably the most famous sportsman in the world at the moment and I've never heard him speak English.

surely beckham is more famous? Not sure many Americans know who messi is

Yeah but he cant speak English either so point proven...

paperbag_puncher wrote:

alma wrote:

paperbag_puncher wrote:I don't mean to be condersending either but are you sure you're an English speaker?

Anyway it doesn't matter if you speak English or not if you have the talent you'll make your mark. The issues with the sport that we all complain about proliferation of titles, lack of coverage on terrestrial TV etc are what makes it difficult for fighters to cross over rather than their inability to speak English.

Manny Pacquiao doesn't exactly speak great English other than thanking god and telling us its going to be a great fight but he's still massive worldwide. Lionel Messi's arguably the most famous sportsman in the world at the moment and I've never heard him speak English.

surely beckham is more famous? Not sure many Americans know who messi is

Yeah but he cant speak English either so point proven...

huw wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Felix Trinidad is famous for being Mr Peurto Rico. He never learned english and promoted his identity proudly. He is respected as a national hero back in his home country but outside of boxing he is not very well known, for all his great work. Chavez was the same. Could have been huge but kept himself too tightly bonded to Me-ki-co. And Chavez was not stupid he had a law degree so I am sure he could have grasped a little english in his long career...but no.

How many boxers actually transend the sport though?

Lucky to get 1-2 / generation.

ODLH could probably walk through London and go unrecognised by 90% of people and he's probably the most famous fighter since Tyson.

Depends what he is wearing...

Bit Xenophobic this mate.

When you become a world class boxer you don't automatically have to learn another language to cope - you get translated.

Ever wondered why big fighters can't be asked???

I'm sure they have been!! But as fighters give or take the odd exception aren't usually that great education-wise, hence probably a reason they box!!...they either;

1. Try....... and think sack it it's too hard (most of them)

2. Think I don't have to.... so I won't!!

If your good enough and you have appeal it's not the end of the World....

Duran was more popular in America than most quality Americans in the 80s..Grew up with plenty of Duran non-latino fans!!

Why because charisma isn't determined by language it's something you have or haven't got!!!

paperbag_puncher wrote:

alma wrote:

paperbag_puncher wrote:I don't mean to be condersending either but are you sure you're an English speaker?

Anyway it doesn't matter if you speak English or not if you have the talent you'll make your mark. The issues with the sport that we all complain about proliferation of titles, lack of coverage on terrestrial TV etc are what makes it difficult for fighters to cross over rather than their inability to speak English.

Manny Pacquiao doesn't exactly speak great English other than thanking god and telling us its going to be a great fight but he's still massive worldwide. Lionel Messi's arguably the most famous sportsman in the world at the moment and I've never heard him speak English.

surely beckham is more famous? Not sure many Americans know who messi is

Yeah but he cant speak English either so point proven...

Game, set and match!

I think the ability to speak English to better promote yourself applies to US, which is universally now accepted to be the biggest market for boxing with the biggest fights along with promoters. That's it really.

Gives the media more to work with. If you can have cross-over appeal based on talent (e.g. Messi) then so be it.

I'm sure boxers initially have more important things to do then learn English. Polish their jab etc.....

Our footballers don't learn Spanish when they travel abroad do they.

i like the fact marquez speaks in Spanish. he speaks much more fluently and concise when in his native tongue and subtitled, than in broken english.

there's only so many times i can listen to manny say 'i was just doing my job'.

OasisBFC wrote:Our footballers don't learn Spanish when they travel abroad do they.

I generally dislike footballers but I am going to defend them in this instance as this is not strictly true. I think both Steve McManaman and Jonathan Woodgate both learnt Spanish to a very acceptable level. Even Beckham had a go. I don't think Michael Owen did but he was only there five minutes. So out of the four highest profile English players that have been in Spain recently, 50% did learn the language.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

OasisBFC wrote:Our footballers don't learn Spanish when they travel abroad do they.

I generally dislike footballers but I am going to defend them in this instance as this is not strictly true. I think both Steve McManaman and Jonathan Woodgate both learnt Spanish to a very acceptable level. Even Beckham had a go. I don't think Michael Owen did but he was only there five minutes. So out of the four highest profile English players that have been in Spain recently, 50% did learn the language.

Woodgate had little else to do other than learn Spanish he was on the treatment table that much.. Just had a look apparently he only played 9 games for Madrid in 3 years..

paperbag_puncher wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

OasisBFC wrote:Our footballers don't learn Spanish when they travel abroad do they.

I generally dislike footballers but I am going to defend them in this instance as this is not strictly true. I think both Steve McManaman and Jonathan Woodgate both learnt Spanish to a very acceptable level. Even Beckham had a go. I don't think Michael Owen did but he was only there five minutes. So out of the four highest profile English players that have been in Spain recently, 50% did learn the language.

Woodgate had little else to do other than learn Spanish he was on the treatment table that much.. Just had a look apparently he only played 9 games for Madrid in 3 years..

True, but he could have just sat there counting his money. All the reports I have heard about him out there have been very complimentary towards his attitude in embracing a new culture, including the language.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

OasisBFC wrote:Our footballers don't learn Spanish when they travel abroad do they.

I generally dislike footballers but I am going to defend them in this instance as this is not strictly true. I think both Steve McManaman and Jonathan Woodgate both learnt Spanish to a very acceptable level. Even Beckham had a go. I don't think Michael Owen did but he was only there five minutes. So out of the four highest profile English players that have been in Spain recently, 50% did learn the language.

i actually agree with you, beckham spoke spanish quite well at the end. it was a poor example because they actually lived out there for a couple of years. unlike boxers who only need to speak english 10 days a year at a press conference or pre fight interview etc.

as i said earlier, i'd much rather a boxer speaks their native language fluently and concisely (and subtitled) then say a few simple sentences in english.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Jonathan Woodgate

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:highest profile

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Jonathan Woodgate

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:highest profile

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:highest profile

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:highest profile

Sad state of English football.

Think a lot depends on where you live abroad....

Now as we all know over here there are plenty of Polish communities where they don't feel the need.....No doubt abroad there are those silly British communities they have in Spain (with the union jack flying!! Brits abroad )

Hispanics in LA and Vegas..................

Where you live and the Community you live in will express what need you have to learn the language..

For me everybody who moves to a Country should show respect by learning the basics!!!

I mean my English has thrived since I moved here!!

OasisBFC wrote:Our footballers don't learn Spanish when they travel abroad do they.

i like the fact marquez speaks in Spanish. he speaks much more fluently and concise when in his native tongue and subtitled, than in broken english.

there's only so many times i can listen to manny say 'i was just doing my job'.

I don't think our footballers are a fair example to use. 1, because the EPL is the most marketable and valuable football league in the world which from a money (and in relation to the OP) point of view means English footballers don't need to learn another language to increase their marketability and earning potential. 2, very very few English footballers ever travel abroad anyway (a bad thing IMO). Of them, probably the most successful (maybe debateable vs Mcmanaman) is Beckham who learnt very good Spanish in the short time he was out there. For a person universally derided as thick as two short planks and unable to even speak English properly he actually held whole press conferences in the language with only the occassional gramatical slip-up. He's very shy about it but a friend of mine who met him out there at dinner said his Spanish was way better than he ever let on.

Regarding the OP, I agree it would be good if top boxers did learn/speak more English from a business point of view as I do think this would increase their revenue potential however it should be 100% their choice with 0% obligation. If all you want to do is box, that's fine, just accept the limitations that go with it.

"Agree it would be good from a business point of view............"

It's a hard point to substantiate that one.......

Marquez/Barrera/Chavez and Duran all spoke little English and were huge!!

Fact is If we like what we see we tend to want more....

In a world full of interpreters.. fighters can get their message across...

Who's been any bigger than Duran in the last 30 yrs???????

Charisma, talent and appeal has it's own language!!!!!!!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"Agree it would be good from a business point of view............"

It's a hard point to substantiate that one.......

Marquez/Barrera/Chavez and Duran all spoke little English and were huge!!

Fact is If we like what we see we tend to want more....

In a world full of interpreters.. fighters can get their message across...

Who's been any bigger than Duran in the last 30 yrs???????

Charisma, talent and appeal has it's own language!!!!!!!!!

And how many Duran's have there been Truss? 1. The OP doesn't ask whether we think the best most loved respected and marketable boxer in the world should try take it up a notch by learning English, it makes a generalist statement. In general, speaking English can lead to a greater number and/or higher value of endorsement type deals as it's pretty much the widest spoken language in the richest countries in the world.

Of the top 10 world's most marketable sports-stars, only Messi isn't a known English speaker (I think I've seen Dhoni interviewed and speaking it ok) and that's despite 6/10 not being born in England/USA. In today's world (not the 60s, 70s, 80s etc) marketability = $$$.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/sportspro_blog/usain_bolt_is_the_worlds_most_marketable_athlete/

There is a flip side, Khan would be a much more popular if he couldn't speak English.

I can't honestly believe that list is in any shape or form accurate.

You made the observation and I rebutted it with Duran...

The fact Duran doesn't speak English and was one of the biggest names of alltime..

Doesn't really help you substantiate your argument...

Like I said..If you like something you'll pay for it..

If I was a kid and saw a fit charismatic hispanic woman in a porn movie would I not watch it because it's not in English....?

No and it's the same with Boxing........You pay to be entertained..and see the best!!

Would you not agree that Mayweather is only marketable because he's America? Were he say Mexican with exactly the same skillset, would we really react to his mouth and want to watch him?

Disagree totally.........and I'm surprised at you...

He's proven to be the best that's what makes him a star..

Manny gets $20 million a fight is that because he speaks English???

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I can't honestly believe that list is in any shape or form accurate.

Why not? In what way do you think it's innaccurate?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You made the observation and I rebutted it with Duran...

The fact Duran doesn't speak English and was one of the biggest names of alltime..

Doesn't really help you substantiate your argument...

Like I said..If you like something you'll pay for it..

If I was a kid and saw a fit charismatic hispanic woman in a porn movie would I not watch it because it's not in English....?

No and it's the same with Boxing........You pay to be entertained..and see the best!!

And I rebutted yours. I am not saying it is a must and I have pointed out it may be unneccesarry for the very best (note your point re Manny) however that a) doesn't mean it can't improve the position of other medium-high ranked boxers; and b) doesn't mean the top guys couldn't be even more valuable if they could.

And your porno comment is childish and irrelevant. What you jerk off to on the internet for free is meaningless in the context of what you'd either pay money to watch or pay money to buy a product endorsed by the subject person.

Wozniacki, Nadal and Murray above Federer who's not even on the list, makes me question it just a little bit.

Pacquiao is an exciting fighter though Truss just like Duran or Chavez, that is why people watch them, fighters with an exciting all action style don't need to say anything. Mayweather is a conservative fighter who sells by using his mouth, were he not American, I don't think he sells as well.

Mayweather is a highly skilled operator Ghosty....and people will always pay to see the best!!!

Think people did watch the fighters you named because they thought them top class Boxers too........

In essence hispanic fighters obviously find it harder in America etc because we love our own but all I'm saying is I think it's more to do with the fact they are not home grown rather than the fact there English is poor..

Charisma tends to have it's own language....

Jorge Paez was an ordinary fighter who got a following!!

Hopkins and Whitaker were both highly skilled operators but weren't big draws, they couldn't sell with excitement whether it be through their fights or through their mouths.

Someone said Cotto speaks good english????

The big bucks are in America where they speak ENGLISH. Latino fighters like Duran and the like are huge there because of the large spanish speaking population but to say they did not need to learn english to ehance they earning potential is plain wrong.

Which brings me back to the fact that Charisma has it's own language...

both lacked personality and could speak English...

Floyd has appeal as well as skill.....so you have basically proved my point..