The Nadal Saga: Tsonga Edition

Life's never boring with Nadal around...

The latest complaint against him indirectly comes from Tsonga who felt Nadal had preferential treatment last night:

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=17019&zoneid=4

Among other things Tsonga lays some pretty serious accusations:

"“It’s not fair,” Tsonga said. “If it’s really close, he would never say ‘out’ against Rafa. If Rafa doesn’t like him anymore, he would not be in the chair many times in a final and semifinal.”

What are your thoughts?

Is Tsonga just a sore loser or is there any, and how much truth in his grief?

What is it with nadal at the moment? Actually have grown to like him more over the years but he seems to be annoying the other players a lot more now. He definitely is taking the mick between points, taking far too long but I suppose if he gets away with it, he is not going to stop.

I prefer federer style of tennis to nadal but I think rafa comes across as a much nicer bloke. Used to be a big federer fan but his comments about djokovic 'slap' shot in US open semi (arguably best return of serve I have ever seen in the circumstances) and other sore loser comments put me off him. Even losing to roddick because he was tired!! Give me a break.

I guess reason I have always liked djokovic most is he plays a great style of tennis but also seems to be a nice bloke, like the way he applauds other players good shots and how he reacted to losing us open final to nadal in 2010 showed him to be a class act. Crossed the net to embrace and congratulate rafa.

Rafa needs to watch himself as he seems to be attracting a lot of criticism, really nice bloke but needs to get on with it. All the talk about him now seems to be regarding gamesmanship and annoying opponents

Interesting comment from Tsonga. He says what I have been saying for a long time about referees being under pressure we have no clue about.

Some will criticise Tsonga here but I am pretty sure he knows more about what's going on behind the closed doors of pro tennis than any of us.

What does the link actually have to do with Nadal directly? Tsonga is talking about the presence that Nadal has in the game and its effect on the line judges/umpire....its not necessarily about Nadal himself per se. Its really more about the laziness of umpires to make tough decisions in the wake of hawkeye.

Otherwise, oh goody...the potential for another negative Nadal thread....and I thought the OP was running across threads last night shouting "enough is enough".

If only it was.

slashermcguirk wrote:I prefer federer style of tennis to nadal but I think rafa comes across as a much nicer bloke.

ha ha ha

This was a good one.

I haven't had the warming-up to Nadal experience yet, I have always been a 101% Nole fan.

I don't like his tennis and on-court demenour, like having the opponent, umpire and the coin tossing person wait for him ON PURPOSE every time.
That is a complete lack of manners and respect in my eyes, and it turns me off big time.
Such a small thing, he could easily change, but obviously has no intention of doing it.

What I do find it very, very interesting at the moment is that in the last 6 months things have turned against Nadal in many ways; now that he's lost the aura of invincibility, other players seem more relaxed about criticising him, which may have resulted in him resigning from the players' council.

I think it was him who started it with that AO press conference having a go at Federer "the rose" having Nadal "burn". Then Federer returned the favour and now the pandora's box's opened.

I find it very strange esp after the number of time he was voted Stefan Edberg award by his fellow players.

lydian wrote:What does the link actually have to do with Nadal directly? Tsonga is talking about the presence that Nadal has in the game and its effect on the line judges/umpire....its not necessarily about Nadal himself per se. Its really more about the laziness of umpires to make tough decisions in the wake of hawkeye.

Otherwise, oh goody...the potential for another negative Nadal thread....and I thought the OP was running across threads last night shouting "enough is enough".

If only it was.

OK Lydian, forget this one is about Nadal, imagine it's Djokovic if it makes you feel better: don't you think it's worrying if one player says umpires fear "upsetting" him , because if they did, then Nadal wouldn't like them (the umpires) and those umpres would not get the job of umpiring big matches (semis and finals).

I mean, this is not Tenez, Manojchandra and myself complaining here, it's the top10 player for crying out loud!

noleisthebest wrote:
I find it very strange esp after the number of time he was voted Stefan Edberg award by his fellow players.

I think he got that award only once.

"“It’s not fair,” Tsonga said. “If it’s really close, he would never say ‘out’ against Rafa. If Rafa doesn’t like him anymore, he would not be in the chair many times in a final and semifinal.”

Interesting. Had he mentioned MTO and time between points, then maybe just maybe I would fully support the fact that maybe he could inspire change.

The comment for me is pointless. Could easily be made against any player in fairness.

Sore loser in my eyes.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
I find it very strange esp after the number of time he was voted Stefan Edberg award by his fellow players.

I think he got that award only once.

yeah, Federer is the one who won it every year except 2010 when Nadal did.

noleisthebest wrote:

lydian wrote:What does the link actually have to do with Nadal directly? Tsonga is talking about the presence that Nadal has in the game and its effect on the line judges/umpire....its not necessarily about Nadal himself per se. Its really more about the laziness of umpires to make tough decisions in the wake of hawkeye.

Otherwise, oh goody...the potential for another negative Nadal thread....and I thought the OP was running across threads last night shouting "enough is enough".

If only it was.

OK Lydian, forget this one is about Nadal, imagine it's Djokovic if it makes you feel better: don't you think it's worrying if one player says umpires fear "upsetting" him , because if they did, then Nadal wouldn't like them (the umpires) and those umpres would not get the job of umpiring big matches (semis and finals).

I mean, this is not Tenez, Manojchandra and myself complaining here, it's the top10 player for crying out loud!

The main point is that this is news today - it should be brought onto a topical tennis forum without worrying about posters' sensibilities.

Actually you could turn this all around and discuss whether Tsonga should have said what he did. Why didn't he challenge at the time? If he really feels that the umpiring left a lot to be desired (and let's face it that sometimes happens in all sports) why not raise concerns through the appropriate channels.

I love Tsonga, but I think if he has a beef (and as I didn't see the match, I can't comment on that) then it should be handled differently. This smacks of disappointment talking when leapt upon by an interviewer straight after the match.

time please wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

lydian wrote:What does the link actually have to do with Nadal directly? Tsonga is talking about the presence that Nadal has in the game and its effect on the line judges/umpire....its not necessarily about Nadal himself per se. Its really more about the laziness of umpires to make tough decisions in the wake of hawkeye.

Otherwise, oh goody...the potential for another negative Nadal thread....and I thought the OP was running across threads last night shouting "enough is enough".

If only it was.

OK Lydian, forget this one is about Nadal, imagine it's Djokovic if it makes you feel better: don't you think it's worrying if one player says umpires fear "upsetting" him , because if they did, then Nadal wouldn't like them (the umpires) and those umpres would not get the job of umpiring big matches (semis and finals).

I mean, this is not Tenez, Manojchandra and myself complaining here, it's the top10 player for crying out loud!

The main point is that this is news today - it should be brought onto a topical tennis forum without worrying about posters' sensibilities.

Actually you could turn this all around and discuss whether Tsonga should have said what he did. Why didn't he challenge at the time? If he really feels that the umpiring left a lot to be desired (and let's face it that sometimes happens in all sports) why not raise concerns through the appropriate channels.

I love Tsonga, but I think if he has a beef (and as I didn't see the match, I can't comment on that) then it should be handled differently. This smacks of disappointment talking when leapt upon by an interviewer straight after the match.

I didn't see the match, but apparently Tsonga did complain to the umpire in the changeovers and after the match.

noleisthebest wrote: OK Lydian, forget this one is about Nadal, imagine it's Djokovic if it makes you feel better: don't you think it's worrying if one player says umpires fear "upsetting" him , because if they did, then Nadal wouldn't like them (the umpires) and those umpres would not get the job of umpiring big matches (semis and finals).

I mean, this is not Tenez, Manojchandra and myself complaining here, it's the top10 player for crying out loud!

Exactly, this isnt about Nadal per se as I said above and shouldnt really by about the sensitivity around Nadal but I see it doesnt stop more posts concerning negativity about him. As LK, and myself, said earlier this isnt direct criticism on Nadal by Tsonga, his point can apply to anyone! Tsonga's point concerns about hawkeye, high profile players and umpires supposedly not having the cojones to make a close call decision. Tsonga just sounds like a sore loser to be honest, and I quite like the guy.

slashermcguirk wrote:
I prefer federer style of tennis to nadal but I think rafa comes across as a much nicer bloke. Used to be a big federer fan but his comments about djokovic 'slap' shot in US open semi (arguably best return of serve I have ever seen in the circumstances) and other sore loser comments put me off him. Even losing to roddick because he was tired!! Give me a break.

Only plausible reason why Federer would lose against Over the Hill Roddick. Or do you have a better explanation?

Chydremion wrote:

slashermcguirk wrote:
I prefer federer style of tennis to nadal but I think rafa comes across as a much nicer bloke. Used to be a big federer fan but his comments about djokovic 'slap' shot in US open semi (arguably best return of serve I have ever seen in the circumstances) and other sore loser comments put me off him. Even losing to roddick because he was tired!! Give me a break.

Only plausible reason why Federer would lose against Over the Hill Roddick. Or do you have a better explanation?

He was distracted by Brooklyn's hawtness!

Even if tiredness did play a part in the defeat, I'm pretty certain that Fed himself made absolutely no mention of it by way of some sort of excuse/explanation.

Yet another example of the frequent cases here on 606v2 whereby comments made by one (or more) poster are then seized upon by another poster who then lazily attributes those comments to a player, using it as material for baseless criticism.

If someone can find a direct quote for 'tiredness' on this one then I'll gladly stand corrected. Meanwhile Federer did give due credit to Andy : "He played aggressive and clutch served when he had to" And even ahead of the encounter Federer had said "I never take a match lightly against him"

it's an interesting question, let's for the moment ignore the Nadal connotation and just replace it by "top player". For me they're two points basically that Tsonga's trying to make:

1) with HE umpires tend to over-rule a lot less than they used to. I think this is true actually.

2) Umpires are "biased" in favour of the top players. Less sure about this one, can certainly remember some lousy calls going against the top players (and for them), but there probably is an element of pressure on umpires, as if they're not liked by the top players they're probably going to be over-looked for matches between them.

Trouble is, I watched the actual interview, and basically it looked like Tsonga was just a=having a whinge at the unfairness of life in general. Wasn't really constructive, and just smacked of poor excuse-making.

Also, interesting to note that rather than have a go at Nadal himself he had a go at the umpire, who's of course in a much weaker position. Compounding the problem?

time please wrote:
The main point is that this is news today - it should be brought onto a topical tennis forum without worrying about posters' sensibilities.

Exactly, and what Tsonga says is extremely helpful for us who clearly are unaware of the effect of the star system.

It also confirms what I have been saying all along about the pressure the referees are in when posters here believe they are gutless. The bottom line is they have not much choice but to let Nadal breaking the time rule at will.

That's what we need to learn here, be it Nadal, Federer or Djoko.

lags72 wrote:Even if tiredness did play a part in the defeat, I'm pretty certain that Fed himself made absolutely no mention of it by way of some sort of excuse/explanation.

That's another subject. But Federer did say in his post match interview that he felt tired. Whether that's an excuse or not, it's irrelevant. He doesn't need to prove he can beat over the hill Roddick, does he?

noleisthebest wrote:... Among other things Tsonga lays some pretty serious accusations:

"“It’s not fair,” Tsonga said. “If it’s really close, he would never say ‘out’ against Rafa. If Rafa doesn’t like him anymore, he would not be in the chair many times in a final and semifinal.”

What are your thoughts?

lol

Tenez wrote:

lags72 wrote:Even if tiredness did play a part in the defeat, I'm pretty certain that Fed himself made absolutely no mention of it by way of some sort of excuse/explanation.

That's another subject. But Federer did say in his post match interview that he felt tired. Whether that's an excuse or not, it's irrelevant. He doesn't need to prove he can beat over the hill Roddick, does he?

Tiredness didn't play a part. If so how come it went to three sets and that Federer had such a dominant second set (6-1) and tight third set (4-6). If Federer won the first set and lost the next two 6-1 or 6-2 I'd agree. I would say the 'tiredness' remark came into the press conference via questioning ie a journalist asked if he felt tired and obviously following such a match when you lose your mind and body are going to feel even more tired and I'd guess that is what Federer was getting at.

Thanks for enlightening us and knowing better about Fed's fatigue than Fed himself.

Well if you can enlighten me as to how he can steamroller Roddick 6-1 in the second set and then go on to make the third set so close when he was so tired then I am all ears. Just hold your hands up and say he was beaten by the better player of the day and move on. Not hard to do if you try.

Craig according to Tenez fed only loses when tired. If he loses then you know he was tired. Sometimes the other guy just plays better.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Well if you can enlighten me as to how he can steamroller Roddick 6-1 in the second set and then go on to make the third set so close when he was so tired then I am all ears. Just hold your hands up and say he was beaten by the better player of the day and move on. Not hard to do if you try.

Yes, let me enlighten you. If Monaco can bagel Roddick, I am sure you can give Federer a bit of credit for doing a bit worse.

This is about fatigue here and your wishing to believe that was the reason Federer lost or as you put it on another thread 'tanked' the match. Now if you can produce evidence from the press conference where Roger came out and said he lost because he was tired then fair enough but he didn't. He credited Roddick for the win whereas you are saying it was because he was tired. Tiredness does not enable you to steamroller a former world No.1 6-1 agfter over an hours play and then allow you to go on and make the third set very competitive as well.

And by saying tired isn't enough, Roger would have nneded to say something like 'I lost because I was too tired or exhausted' which he didn't.

CaledonianCraig wrote:This is about fatigue here and your wishing to believe that was the reason Federer lost or as you put it on another thread 'tanked' the match. Now if you can produce evidence from the press conference where Roger came out and said he lost because he was tired then fair enough but he didn't. He credited Roddick for the win whereas you are saying it was because he was tired. Tiredness does not enable you to steamroller a former world No.1 6-1 agfter over an hours play and then allow you to go on and make the third set very competitive as well.

Of course Federer is going to give Roddick credit. What do you expect him to say to the press conf? "I swear I can beat him and only lost cause I was tired"?

Be serious CC. Do I care about finding excuses for Fed when losing to Roddick? Do you seriously think that this loss is going to affect Fed's supremacy over Andy? I am the one who created a big thread trying to show that age was no excuse for Fed losing to Djoko and Nadal. Wake up!

Well be honest Tenez you are the one that started up the myth about him losing as he was tired. Instead you should have just posted that he was beaten by the better player on the day and left it at that. As I said it is not too hard to do and earns you a modicum of respect.

You three should go out for a pint together

CaledonianCraig wrote: Instead you should have just posted that he was beaten by the better player on the day and left it at that..

No I don't post boring, non-sense, stuff like that, if you noticed.

Why is this thread being attempted to divert from its initial direction? It was about Tsonga's comment and not why Fed lost to Roddick. Who brought out the Fed's 'tired' comment first in this thread?

Guys, stick to topic please.

I saw the highlights of the match and Tsonga became vocal to the umpire towards the end of the 3rd set. Really he should've said something prior to the 3rd set. What he will find frustrating is that Nadal wasn't at the races and if only Tsonga had better adjusted to the conditions would've beaten Nadal.

He should've watched Federer v Nadal IW and see how it's done!

My take is that Tsonga has probably overstepped the mark, but the fact that he's said what he did is itself evidence that there's a sense that Nadal is not carrying the hopes of the game on his shoulders and he is not invincible and players feel bold enough to have a pop about aspects of his on-court persona that they don't like.

I am sure that players are far more concerned about the way their opponents conduct themselves on Court or in relation to the game (i.e. on committes and the like) than how they are as people. There's no need to be friends with colleagues.

Here's hoping the rest of the tour have a "I am Spartacus!" epiphany.