Banahan....be honest....

Deep down in places you don't talk about at dinner parties you wanted Banahan in the England side, you needed Banahan in the England side and then all of a sudden you all fell out of love with him.

Now own up and share your Banahan epiphany moment i.e when you realised he was a waste of space playing for England.

I always thought he brought something to the party with his size relative pace and ability to throw out the back door passes. I quite liked the idea of him coming off the bench against tired legs…but then…..

I'll get the ball rolling….mine was shamefullly fairly recently. It was when he had a one on one with soon to be retiring Shane Williams 5-10m from the tryline and (no disrespect to SW) Williams decked him and I saw the light.

Are there any other players that have given you a similar experience? If so share them with the group. It is good for you.

I still think he should be in the squad. A much better player than the likes of Ashton and more positionally versatile than most.

Still to have yours? Fair enough.

Shane is small but at the end of the day a great deal is down to technique. If you wrap around the lower part of the legs you can chop anyone down at pace. Shane is actually quite muscular, just short in height. Remember when he was supposed to be steam rollered by Horgan against Ireland in 2008, we know what happened there.

I always thought he was massively overrated. He never had enough pace to be a winger and was just a large man, maybe slightly over weight. Didn't real have an eye for a good pass either so he's a decent club man, but I realised when he first played for England he was pretty rubbish.

He's not even that good for Bath. You said be honest...

Hes gash

He's the Audley Harrison of rugby. Promised so much but delivered so little

mckay1402 wrote:He's the Audley Harrison of rugby. Promised so much but delivered so little

Ouch.

Hey ill hold my hand up...i thought he was a real prospect for England...and in the one moment...think it was against Italy in last years 6n...he showed his pace and ability when he went outside his opponent at serious pace...

However...he showed a distinct lack of rugby nous when Shane Williams tackled him....and has also bee n shown that he's not actually good at using his pace and power in contact...

Could have been a weapon..if used right...but he's no Johnny May!!

I get where GF is coming from with this - Banahan for me is a bit the Emile Heskey of the rugby team: has all the physical attributes to be a very effective player but lacks something that means he fails to exploit the capabilities he has. Whether it's a rugby brain, commitment or what I'm not quite sure, but there's something missing.

As for Tri's original comment and question as to whether there are others, the name Borthwick springs to mind - I know not everyone rated him that highly anyway, but I thought in the 07 RWC when he played he was excellent. However, once he was made the captain the limitations in his game became all too obvious.

In fairness to Banahan, while he should have scored that try against Williams, he still made a good seven yards in the tackle. The main problem I had with him in that game was the way Henson and Roberts knocked him backwards more than once in the first half. I do think he gets disproportionate criticism however. He's done some good things for England.

I don't know why Williams always gets the credit for stopping the try. He certainly tripped Bananaman up, but he still made several yards and would have scored. It was Hook ripping the ball off him as he crossed the tryline that stopped the score.

Banahan has alot of haters but he is a very good club player, but was very shocked when he started getting international time in the centres.... after a few games he was doing alright starting to get a good few balls away from the tackle but he will never be world class though...... At 6ft 7, 18stones , comparatively quick, athletic, good lines and hands...he could have been a very good international lock, Although Banahan has done well for bath had he stayed at lock and developed under Grewcock he could be a nailed on starter for england.

I used to rate Banahan as a serious potential but he never seemed to develope the footballing skills required for International level. He is a very good player but not at international level where the game is harder and faster.

I always got the feeling that he was too tall for the backs, all well and good that he was 18 stone and pretty quick but when everyone else only has to hit his ankles to bring him down then it doesn't mean diddly.

Even big players like North and Cuthbert aren't as big as him, as height just becomes a hindrence in the end.

for me it was against the ABs when he came steaming up and saw there were no gaps and rather than clatter into the black shirts he stopped and got mullered. He did this more than once. Total wuss. But I do admire his offloading game and I think it harsh to write someone off forever. Even he can improve and confound us all and I hope he does.

Awful winger

sirtidychris wrote:Banahan has alot of haters but he is a very good club player, but was very shocked when he started getting international time in the centres.... after a few games he was doing alright starting to get a good few balls away from the tackle but he will never be world class though...... At 6ft 7, 18stones , comparatively quick, athletic, good lines and hands...he could have been a very good international lock, Although Banahan has done well for bath had he stayed at lock and developed under Grewcock he could be a nailed on starter for england.

Thats actually a very valid point

I don't believe it too late for him to change back to lock, being the size he is he is only going to get slower as he gets older.

His not as bad as people make out, short on form due to being moved around too much by club and country and that has dented his confidence, under good management Banahan could be a force again.

HERSH wrote:I don't believe it too late for him to change back to lock, being the size he is he is only going to get slower as he gets older.

His not as bad as people make out, short on form due to being moved around too much by club and country and that has dented his confidence, under good management Banahan could be a force again.

A force again ?

eirebilly wrote:

sirtidychris wrote:Banahan has alot of haters but he is a very good club player, but was very shocked when he started getting international time in the centres.... after a few games he was doing alright starting to get a good few balls away from the tackle but he will never be world class though...... At 6ft 7, 18stones , comparatively quick, athletic, good lines and hands...he could have been a very good international lock, Although Banahan has done well for bath had he stayed at lock and developed under Grewcock he could be a nailed on starter for england.

Thats actually a very valid point

I don't think he's mean enough. Maybe if he'd taken a bit more advice from Grewcock...

At club level he's useful when he raises his workrate.

I remember seeing him last season popping up all over the park.
So much so, that I had no idea what position he was actually playing.

He was crash balling, defending and tackling, rucking etc.
He was extremely useful.

Then a few games later he looks like a totally different player.


You can't have that kind of inconsistency at international level

munkian wrote:

HERSH wrote:I don't believe it too late for him to change back to lock, being the size he is he is only going to get slower as he gets older.

His not as bad as people make out, short on form due to being moved around too much by club and country and that has dented his confidence, under good management Banahan could be a force again.

A force again ?

That’s right Munk, his consistently been one of the top try scorers in the Jeff, but at the moment he has fallen out of love for the game, yet another legacy left by MJ and Co.

Looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane. Whe you get down to it he a) doesn't work hard enough to get himself into the game, b) has the turning circle of an oil tanker and c) his technique when going into contact is shockingly bad, he goes far to high and seems to have no hand off.

I'm really not a Banahan fan and never have been (particularly when he was touted as a possible centre) but did once think he could do a job off the bench should he be able to master the Alesana off the 10s shoulder kill the opposition fly half move demonstrated best against Gloucester a few years ago. Unfortunatly his technique in contact is so poor (see point c) above) even players with the stature of Shane Williams can afford to go high and drag him down!

The Shane Williams moment was the icing on the cake for him.

It was getting closer and closer as he seemed ineffective at test level. Not quick enough or dynamic enough in contact (as Sams said) to make a dent. He was a big moving target for defences and he wasnt smart enough (or used smartly enough) to make any sort of impact.

When he was at the top of his game, a useful bench option for test-level at the very best.

He was so promising as he is young and would improve with more experience. The Shane thing was totally embarrassing I feel his time has gone as he made just one or two errors too many.

If he got back to scoring tries every match for Bath as he was doing last season then he would have to be considered by England again.

I´ll be honest. I don't know who he is or have seen him play rugby. He sounds like a special type of South American fruit from the plantane family?

pretty much bang on with that guess Kia

Kia, he has a lot of tattoos and reminds me of a truck looking for parking.

This South American fruit you talk about...does it have any English lineage and if so when can we get it capped!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:This South American fruit you talk about...does it have any English lineage and if so when can we get it capped!

I suppose it depends how far back you want to go.

The truth of the matter is, they should all qualify to play for African countries, as from what I understand of the migration of humans, it all started there.

You're more than welcome to have Maurice Botha back

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You're more than welcome to have Maurice Botha back

But we're keeping Kevin Pietersen for now...

and Brad Barritt.

Having an awful season for Bath, but so are many. Brilliant when played in the right gameplan, quick, attacking, offloading rugby, where he comes looking for the ball. Off slow ball, it's pretty painful.

Been messed around with positions so much and by England, which has held him back a lot and has obviously fallen out of love for the game for a bit. Who can blame him, playing in the Bath side at the moment and he's also just had a young kid, so a bit distracted. Being cast aside by England a few times won't help his confidence either. Still very very young though and plenty of time to come good, could make the next 2 WCs. Still not entirely convinced on his best position yet, but think it is probably wing.

Never rated him. Not international class. Predictable, low on skill and not particularly influential. He is consistent but consistently average.

Kevin Kilbane of rugby.

I honestly believe he would have made a cracking No8. He did start off in the forwards and has good enough hands and plenty of pace for the back of the scrum. he'd probably be kind of useful in the lineouts too.

He is not good enough for the England backline, and trying to use him as a centre to smash up the middle when his offloading is as poor as mine was a disaster.

He is like Tyson Fury. Far better on paper than in practice.

I know Shane Williams stopped him scoring a try recently but didn;t he also fail to stop Shane scoring one himself ?

All thats wrong with the England setup - if big is good bigger must be better.

Not fast enough for a winger. Lumbering donkey

munkian wrote:I know Shane Williams stopped him scoring a try recently but didn;t he also fail to stop Shane scoring one himself ?

To be fair the whole Australian team did that just so Shane scored in his last game.

Also if you look at his international try scoring stats (before he was moved around and messed up) they were very similar to Alex Cuthberts. although I agree Banahan was never going to be world class.

Bathite wrote:Having an awful season for Bath, but so are many. Brilliant when played in the right gameplan, quick, attacking, offloading rugby, where he comes looking for the ball. Off slow ball, it's pretty painful.

Been messed around with positions so much and by England, which has held him back a lot and has obviously fallen out of love for the game for a bit. Who can blame him, playing in the Bath side at the moment and he's also just had a young kid, so a bit distracted. Being cast aside by England a few times won't help his confidence either. Still very very young though and plenty of time to come good, could make the next 2 WCs. Still not entirely convinced on his best position yet, but think it is probably wing.

25 is hardly a "young kid" or "very very young". Banahan should be looking at reaching his peak as a winger over the next few year but I can only see him getting worse. One of the worst players I have seen in an England jersey over the last few years, how he has so many caps is beyond me.

I have never been a fan but am open to the idea that if he wasn't messed around so much positionally he would be a better player now than he is. Big, highly mobile lumps can be very effective. Does need to find his true role and that would be back row for me. I genuinely hope he comes good wherever he settles. Do hate seeing players out of position at any level but it seems to be a tendency with coaches. Please SL don't do it. Pick form players doing their regular jobs.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Bathite wrote:Having an awful season for Bath, but so are many. Brilliant when played in the right gameplan, quick, attacking, offloading rugby, where he comes looking for the ball. Off slow ball, it's pretty painful.

Been messed around with positions so much and by England, which has held him back a lot and has obviously fallen out of love for the game for a bit. Who can blame him, playing in the Bath side at the moment and he's also just had a young kid, so a bit distracted. Being cast aside by England a few times won't help his confidence either. Still very very young though and plenty of time to come good, could make the next 2 WCs. Still not entirely convinced on his best position yet, but think it is probably wing.

25 is hardly a "young kid" or "very very young". Banahan should be looking at reaching his peak as a winger over the next few year but I can only see him getting worse. One of the worst players I have seen in an England jersey over the last few years, how he has so many caps is beyond me.

Thats very harsh on Banahan especially when we have had the likes of Tindall, Noon, Erinle, Goode, Perry etc during the last few years. When up for it and used properly he is very good, Englands try against France in the WC was set up by him picking a line tacking the ball flat and then carrying a french player for 10metres before getting hauled down. I agree that his time has passed but if he got some good form together Lancaster may use him as a utility/impact sub.

^^ agreed. Unfortunately for him he got picked when in good form, but the England team was in such a poor way and offering very little in attack.

As frosties says, if used correctly, can be a real weapon, if not, tends to look like a real weapon! Certainly a confidence player as well

mckay1402 wrote:He's the Audley Harrison of rugby. Promised so much but delivered so little

That's a little unfair, he can throw more than one punch... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5tE9S8uwj4

But ultimately I think this is the best description...

munkian wrote:Hes gash

I was never that enamoured of Banahan.

Didn't like him as a winger as at international level he never made the ground he should have, and in defence he used to concede a lot of ground because he could contain the runner but rarely committed to the tackle. I think the root cause of both was that he just wasn't agile enough on his feet to be able to change direction quickly enough for international rugby.

I warmed to him a bit in his later appearances as a centre. He actually looked pretty good playing at 12 against the Baa Baas* and offered distribution options that nobody else could (his overhead pass...). I'd like to see him play consistently in the centres for a season or so, and then see if he's worth a shot in the squad against the likes of Barritt, Tuilagi and JTH.

*I should qualify that by pointing out that the alternatives at the time were Hape and Tindall, neither in any sort of form.

Big, straight line basher, from Baarff, no step, no style, got stopped 5 yds out by the smallest winger in living 6n memory.
No, so not a fan, never was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV0XrH6bCDY&feature=relmfu

Look at 0.31 Johnny is the future of England wings...and should be on his way to SA in the summer...

Geordie, yes I was at that and other matches at the 'Holm this season.
Jonny is very much one to watch for the future. Awesome footwork & acceleration.

He's had a pretty bad season by his recent standards, but then so have much of the Bath squad. He's been shoehorned into 13 more often than he should simply because 10/12/13 really hasn't been working for us.