Could Louis topple Ali ??

Morning All

It's the ultimate fantasy fight and probably been discussed more than any fight through history (well not inc Manny vs Mayweather) I've always edged Ali in terms of standing and head to head, however found this interesting article on Cox Corner about how Louis would beat Ali and it kinda got me thinking that maybes Louis had as good as an even chance. I'll post the article below, apologies to those who've already read it.

Could Louis really topple Ali in your opinion??

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

Thanks gents have a great day and happy April Fools day.

Cheers

Rodders

No.

Little doubt, in my mind, that while I'd slightly favour Ali's chin to trump Joe's power, and his athleticism to trump Joe's technique, Louis could beat Ali on a given night.

Louis is the most technically complete of all the heavies, in my opinion, and a much better pure boxer than Ali. Joe had blistering handspeed, was deadly accurate, was as good a finisher as Tyson, carried a battering ram of a jab, and most of the defensive tricks of Johnson, patiently taught him by ' Chappie ' Blackburn. In addition, Louis knew how to cut the ring off better than any other, including Foreman, and a peak Louis against second incarnation Ali would be a very tight affair.

As I say, I'd favour Ali - just, for the reasons I've already mentioned. I could see him popping over lead right hands, ( to which Joe could be a wee bit vulnerable, ) and scoring with his unorthodoxy early on, with Joe hunting him down and closing the gap in the later stages.

I love them both, and I hate to pick a winner, but Ali, for me.

Nice one, Rodders.

Nice one Windy, cheers for your insight as always. I've always been a believer Ali had a bit of daylight but lately managed to watch a lot of footage of Joe and bit of a better understanding, I'm maybes thinking it's almost a pick'em.

Cheers

Rodders

You're welcome, Rodders.

It appears we see it exactly the same way.

Windy, you say you'd shade Louis over a second incarnation Ali, but where do you stand on the '68 version of Ali (possibly the finest version of the man)?

DAVE667 wrote:Windy, you say you'd shade Louis over a second incarnation Ali, but where do you stand on the '68 version of Ali (possibly the finest version of the man)?

No, Dave, I'd still shade Ali, but I believe it would be tight.

First incarnation Ali is tricky, because I believe he would have hit his absolute peak in those ' missing years ' between '67 and '70. Later Ali was stronger, smarter and hit harder than the earlier version, whereas the younger Ali was incredibly fast. If younger Ali doesn't make mistakes, I think he beats Louis by a wider margin than the second incarnation does, but one mistake against Joe - and Ali made a few during his first spell as champ - and Louis could make him pay.

I make both versions of Ali wafer thin favourites over Louis, but I also believe that Louis COULD beat either.

Morning everyone.

No surprises who I'm going to side with, sheer biased (possibly) In reality its extremely difficult matchup to call. In my opinion, if they fought 3 times, Ali would win the first fight, Louis the second one, and the third one would be a hotly contested draw.

A one off fight It may not be Joe Louis who win this fight it could be Jack Blackburn. He would draw up a fight plan to exploit Ali's stylistic weakneses just like Eddie Futch did. Louis would simply need to implement the plan to the letter. The thing that throws a kink into this matchup is that we've never seen Ali/Clay against a great composite puncher. We saw him against guys that could punch a wall down (Foreman, Shavers, Liston etc.) and we saw him against some of the best swarmers in history (Frazier) but he was never in against a guy with a mix of both. As in a great combo of speed, power, and technique.

There's only been a few in history at HW imo, Dempsey, Louis, and Tyson are the big ones. How does Ali do against these guys, Louis may very well be able to eventually take him out. Problem I see for Joe is he may wait to long and the patience may find him needing a miracle late on.

Its so close and I cannot fathom out for anyone to say its an one way easy nights works for either. Louis late for me (surprise surprise)


This is a little transcript from Louis below what he thought of the matchup

“The kid has speed and there’s no one around to outbox him, and the opponent who tries is in his grave. Especially in the middle if the ring. I’d see to it that Clay didn’t stay in ring center. No. He’d be hit into those ropes as near a corner as I could get him. If he stayed on the ropes he would get hurt. Sooner or later he’d try to bounce off, when he did he would get hurt more. I’d press him, cut down his speed, and bang him around the ribs. I’d punish the body. “Kill the body and the head will die”, Chappie use to tell me. It figures. Sooner or later he’d forget about that face of his and he would start dropping that left hand like he did against Mildenberger and Chuvalo. Those fellows got their openings by accident, and fouled it up. I would work for it and wouldn’t reckon to miss when it arrived. Cassius Clay is a nice boy and a smart fighter. But I am sure Joe Louis would have licked him.”

- Joe Louis in Ring Magazine 1967

Apologies WIndy, I misread the "Louis could beat Ali on a given night" remark

Is this the same Louis who got clowned off a light heavy in Conn and rolled like a drunk from baqr brawler Galento?

Saves people a lot of time getting it out there now.

rowley wrote:Is this the same Louis who got clowned off a light heavy in Conn and rolled like a drunk from baqr brawler Galento?

Saves people a lot of time getting it out there now.

Have I been blinded by Windy's reference to a "prime" Louis? I've April Fool-ed haven't I?

rowley wrote:Is this the same Louis who got clowned off a light heavy in Conn and rolled like a drunk from baqr brawler Galento?

Saves people a lot of time getting it out there now.

I prefer that one Jeff, than the one I heard the other day on here from our modern enthusiast.

"Chris Arreola has faster hands than Louis"

I'm presuming he meant at the dinner table.

Jimmy Stuart wrote:

rowley wrote:Is this the same Louis who got clowned off a light heavy in Conn and rolled like a drunk from baqr brawler Galento?

Saves people a lot of time getting it out there now.

I prefer that one Jeff, than the one I heard the other day on here from our modern enthusiast.

"Chris Arreola has faster hands than Louis"

I'm presuming he meant at the dinner table.

Got to be at one of those all you can eat buffets and in all fairness it is a toss up between him and James Toney for the title

Jimmy Stuart wrote:

rowley wrote:Is this the same Louis who got clowned off a light heavy in Conn and rolled like a drunk from baqr brawler Galento?

Saves people a lot of time getting it out there now.

I prefer that one Jeff, than the one I heard the other day on here from our modern enthusiast.

"Chris Arreola has faster hands than Louis"

I'm presuming he meant at the dinner table.

Think it was more Azania said Arreola had faster hands than MOST old timers

I almost cried with despair.

Wouldn't have lasted 2 minutes with Galento FFS and he makes Margarito look like superman in terms of speed!

Jimmy Stuart wrote:"Chris Arreola has faster hands than Louis"

I'm presuming he meant at the dinner table.

Brilliant, Jimmy.

One of those ' golden moments, ' that one.

I've always maintained that despite it not being 'pre exile' Ali that the Frazier fights exaggerated vulnerabilities in Ali that were there from the start, defence falibility to the left hook, decked heavily by it 3 times and that is the key to beating him. Louis could hook equally well with either hand but would need to get up close and personal with Ali just like Frazier did with constant pressure, take him out his comfort zone and keep pressuring. Would pick Ali 9 times out of 10 but he's more beatable in my opinion than many would care to admit.

Come on guys not this again

Thanks very much Windy, I wish I was making it up.

Well, an Ali fan all the way me, but thought I'd mention this little conversation that took place when Ali was Clay.
Ali; "You really think you woulda beaten me?"
Louis;" Well, I had somehting called a Bum of the Month club..."
Ali (shrill)"Are you saying I'm a bum?"
Louis(calmly)"You'd have been in the list.."