Howley to lead down under

by wales606 Thu 19 Apr 2012 - 12:14

First topic message reminder :

Rob Howley named Wales caretaker for summer Tests

Wales coach Warren Gatland will not travel to Australia this summer for the three-Test tour, with Rob Howley being named caretaker manager.
Gatland is recovering in New Zealand from a recent fall when he fractured both heels.

He will also miss the summer international against the Barbarians.
"Our priorities are clear and we have acted decisively to ensure absolute clarity in the weeks ahead," said WRU chief executive Roger Lewis.

by Liam Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 11:11

HERSH what negative tactics?

Wales can win in Oz, its not impossible, as England showed last year (or the year before that, can't remember). Yes Oz beat us twice, once in the play off for 3rd, when we were missing our tournenament 10 and our world class TH. The second was a complete waste of time test match in which the match was built around Shane's retirement, not exactly perfect Test match build up.

I have every reason to believe that despite the injuries we have, Wales can still win a Test down under. Whether we win the series is another question. I doubt it, Oz are so strong at home and rarely get beaten twice. But, with the players we got coming through like Beck, Williams and then game changers like North, we got every chance of making the tour a success. For once, we have strength in depth with a good mix of youth and experience. For instance, i'm not massively worried about Warbs missing the first test because we have Tupiric, who has been arguably the form 7 in the NH this year.

by Knowsit17 Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 11:38

HERSH wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:That still doesn't explain how they will beat Australia; who have beaten Wales twice on the trot, have a higher IRB ranking, are current Tri Nation champions and will be playing at home.

It's a tough ask for Wales... sure, it is possible they may win one match but all the stars will need to be aligned and they'll need to play with equal or more passion than they did in the recent 6N.

+1

Thats been my point, I can't see how Wales can win the series with the set of circumstances that have come their way in terms of injuries, negative tactics etc...

As has been stated, Roberts is the only confirmed injury absentee so far.

The omens are promising already, HERSH thinks we don't stand a chance. We all know how we were going to suffer a group stage exit in NZ and finish in the bottom three of the 6N according to this psychic's prophecy Very Happy

by maestegmafia Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 11:44

HERSH thought Wales would be wooden spoon contenders in the Six Nations championship we just won with a Grandslam.

by Morgannwg Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 11:53

HERSH, who do you think should captain Wales is Warbs misses the first test/tour?

We need to play conservative IMO, see how far that will get us. A fit front 5 of Evans, AWJ, Jones, Rees, Jenkins should be too strong for Aus. I'm not saying they are weak in that area, because they most certainly aren't. The quality of their players in the S15 is class, but we have some players playing well too so not all hope is lost.

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 11:57

Do you think there are plenty of reasons to think that Wales will win a test series against Oz in Oz? I cant see it myself. Not looking to burst any bubbles here but some welsh fans have Wales as potential favourites down under which is faintly ludicrous. You have lost twice home and away to them recently. Wales are looking good and I can understand the optimism but no need to big the team up too much. I mean they haven't beaten a top 3 side away since 1987!

I can't see WG's absence causing any issues. Wales have great leadership on the pitch and howler and Edwards know what their doing. A mounting injury list has got to be a cause for concern though.

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 11:59

*howley!

by Morgannwg Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 12:04

I'm not sure I have seen any of that tbh, most have said we'll lose the series and should aim to win one test. Which is the most realistic goal probably and fans have been saying that for months. I think this and the bigging up must be in your head.

by Knowsit17 Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 12:11

Wales dealt with a good few injuries away in Ireland well enough. We wouldn't have won that game so depleted in the recent past but we managed it. In that same past a good five or so injuries playing a 3N side in the SH would have been the writing on the wall but I think we're in contention as it is.

I haven't seen that many posters really bigging us up. The general feeling is that this series is a big objective and that we can win at least one test. Optimism and confidence in advance has been mainly well-fulfilled this past year so there's no reason to stop feeling it now.

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 14:05

Morgannwg wrote:I'm not sure I have seen any of that tbh, most have said we'll lose the series and should aim to win one test. Which is the most realistic goal probably and fans have been saying that for months. I think this and the bigging up must be in your head.

Except it's written by a welsh fan in this thread morgan

by Morgannwg Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 14:33

Is it?

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 15:08

Yep, read back. Look, I like the optimism and agree that welsh fans have a lot to be optimistic about. Great, young players and some strength in depth. You seem to be in a stronger position than you were after the 2008 GS. But beating Oz in Oz is a tricky prospect, particularly over three tests. Good luck anyway. I hope you do beat them but I thinks a very very tall order and would definitely count as a significant upset

by Morgannwg Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 15:31

You're just stating the obvious/what we already know, evident from the Aus tour discussion that has been going on for months, even since before the 6 Nations. Some are more optimistic than other, yes. If you don't like that then it's you that has the problem. What you have likely been reading was the disagreements with HERSH and misinterpreted it.

Don't read into our tests too much. You have Englands tour to worry about, and you should be just slightly worried given the calibre of South Africa's established test players and the ones ready to come through the S15 and into the Springbok team.

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 15:46

So im not allowed to discuss wales? Get a grip will you! You're a sensitive chap aren't you? Always the victim morgan. Wales will win every game forever. There you go!

Re England, yep, I am concerned and doubt that we will win any of the tests down there. Can't wait!

by Morgannwg Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 15:53

It's fine for you to discuss Wales. It's just don't bring up stuff that isn't there so you can have a pop because it happens often without your input and quite frankly it's boring. No need to write that drivel either, that's just childish.

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 15:59

Stop being paranoid and read back through the thread. You'll see it. I'm not having a go, merely pointing out that Wales very rarely beat Oz. As I say, "I like the optimism".
It strikes me that you look for offense when it isn't even there.

by Morgannwg Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:05

And like I have said it's already been discussed for months on end. There isn't need for you to repeat as you will just make the topic boring. If anyone has us down as favourites they're bordering on delusional IMO.

by Liam Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:12

damngood,

Nothing wrong with what you are saying, but i've hardly come across anyone who believes Wales will whack oz, they beat NZ to win the tri-nations. I, like allot of other Welsh supporters, are optimistic however, of winning a test down under. If we win one it is a superb accomplishment, obviously the team themselves will be going there to win the series.

Its all on that first game. If Wales win it, then we've accomplished a test victory not only against a SH side, but on their own patch. Then, we can look at possible winning the series from there, although it will still be an unbelievably difficult task.

If Oz win that first test, it really is an uphill struggle from there to get a test win. The Aussies confidence will be up for the second test and it would take a monumental effort from there. But, I am optimistic of a win away from home, then hoping for wins over the SH sides at home, including NZ. I think that is something we should now be slightly expecting, we've come so close but with this side now Grand Slam champions, I hope that will give them the winning mentality to make the MS a fortress for when not just SH sides tour, but for all other NH nations, like HQ was and still is but even more so between, if we can achieve that then the only way is up thumbsup

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:17

So what I call a tad over optimistic, you call bordering on delusional. That's not to far of an agreement!!

You Brought up the England tour and mentioned SA players coming through. Which new springbok caps do you reckon will have an impact against England?

by Knowsit17 Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:19

Re England, yep, I am concerned and doubt that we will win any of the tests down there. Can't wait!

Gonna need more motivation and optimism than that to find a formula of success. Not many teams, if any, going into tough tests with their heads down can possibly hope to win, which is why I always choose to go in optimistic and believing we can win even when the odds are stacked against us. Sometimes it's hard to bring yourself to genuinely believe but always worth it thumbsup

You are of course right in saying it would be an upset but they happen as I know this one can Wales

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:24

Knowsit17 wrote:
Re England, yep, I am concerned and doubt that we will win any of the tests down there. Can't wait!

Gonna need more motivation and optimism than that to find a formula of success. Not many teams, if any, going into tough tests with their heads down can possibly hope to win, which is why I always choose to go in optimistic and believing we can win even when the odds are stacked against us. Sometimes it's hard to bring yourself to genuinely believe but always worth it

You are of course right in saying it would be an upset but they happen as I know this one can

Yep, fair point Knowsit. Just to clarify, I dont actually play for England or have any formal involvement! You're right though, crowds can lift teams and one of the loudest and supportive crowds is undoubtedly the one at the MS. The Twickenham faithful could learn a thing or two from them.

by sugarNspikes Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:25

Knowsit, I'm not sure what someone sitting at home is thinking has any influence over a tour result in a different hemisphere! Positive thinking though Smile

Seriously though, from an English point of view I don't think we have any problems with motivation or confidence. I'm sure the Welsh camp feel the same, even without Gatland.

Don't think Wales, Ireland or England will win a tour game but should be some good tests anyway.

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:30

martyr_94 wrote:damngood,

Nothing wrong with what you are saying, but i've hardly come across anyone who believes Wales will whack oz, they beat NZ to win the tri-nations. I, like allot of other Welsh supporters, are optimistic however, of winning a test down under. If we win one it is a superb accomplishment, obviously the team themselves will be going there to win the series.

Its all on that first game. If Wales win it, then we've accomplished a test victory not only against a SH side, but on their own patch. Then, we can look at possible winning the series from there, although it will still be an unbelievably difficult task.

If Oz win that first test, it really is an uphill struggle from there to get a test win. The Aussies confidence will be up for the second test and it would take a monumental effort from there. But, I am optimistic of a win away from home, then hoping for wins over the SH sides at home, including NZ. I think that is something we should now be slightly expecting, we've come so close but with this side now Grand Slam champions, I hope that will give them the winning mentality to make the MS a fortress for when not just SH sides tour, but for all other NH nations, like HQ was and still is but even more so between, if we can achieve that then the only way is up

Agreed Martyr, the first test is massive. However, I dont think a Welsh loss would be the start of a downward spiral for them. The Welsh players would have been gutted by how they finished the RWC given how well they had played and yet their heads didnt go down. They served up a GS. You run Oz close at home and occasionally beat them but a win on their own patch would be huge.
RE the fortress MS, I dont think its far off. Clearly one of the hearder stadiums to go to. I dont think its far off being a fortress. I guess we'll have to wait until the AI's to know...

by Morgannwg Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:35

damngoodOvalball wrote:

You Brought up the England tour and mentioned SA players coming through. Which new springbok caps do you reckon will have an impact against England?

Stormers full back Pietersen is having a cracking season, so is 2nd row Etzebeth and no.8 Vermeulen. I'm not sure if there will be many new caps, I'm not that knowledgable on SA rugby. BUt guys with only a handful of caps are looking good and will probably come back in the SA set-up, like Willem Alberts, Andries Bekker, Juan De Jongh and Gio Aplon. The SA team will probably be the Stormers with the Sharks front row!

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:38

damngoodOvalball wrote:
martyr_94 wrote:damngood,

Nothing wrong with what you are saying, but i've hardly come across anyone who believes Wales will whack oz, they beat NZ to win the tri-nations. I, like allot of other Welsh supporters, are optimistic however, of winning a test down under. If we win one it is a superb accomplishment, obviously the team themselves will be going there to win the series.

Its all on that first game. If Wales win it, then we've accomplished a test victory not only against a SH side, but on their own patch. Then, we can look at possible winning the series from there, although it will still be an unbelievably difficult task.

If Oz win that first test, it really is an uphill struggle from there to get a test win. The Aussies confidence will be up for the second test and it would take a monumental effort from there. But, I am optimistic of a win away from home, then hoping for wins over the SH sides at home, including NZ. I think that is something we should now be slightly expecting, we've come so close but with this side now Grand Slam champions, I hope that will give them the winning mentality to make the MS a fortress for when not just SH sides tour, but for all other NH nations, like HQ was and still is but even more so between, if we can achieve that then the only way is up

Agreed Martyr, the first test is massive. However, I dont think a Welsh loss would be the start of a downward spiral for them. The Welsh players would have been gutted by how they finished the RWC given how well they had played and yet their heads didnt go down. They served up a GS. You run Oz close at home and occasionally beat them but a win on their own patch would be huge.
RE the fortress MS, I dont think its far off. Clearly one of the hearder stadiums to go to. I dont think its far off being a fortress. I guess we'll have to wait until the AI's to know...

Furthermore Martyr, look at when England toured Oz in 2010. We lost the first test by a big margin despite totally dominating them up front. We then won the second test, admittedly by a small margin but I reckon the forward dominance in the first test gave us some momentum. Wales ought to have the edge at scrum time but I can see Oz having a marginal advantage at the breakdown and attacking in the loose. Backs should be a very close battle. Wales maintaining their strong defence is of course vital

by damngoodOvalball Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:39

Morgannwg wrote:
damngoodOvalball wrote:

You Brought up the England tour and mentioned SA players coming through. Which new springbok caps do you reckon will have an impact against England?

Stormers full back Pietersen is having a cracking season, so is 2nd row Etzebeth and no.8 Vermeulen. I'm not sure if there will be many new caps, I'm not that knowledgable on SA rugby. BUt guys with only a handful of caps are looking good and will probably come back in the SA set-up, like Willem Alberts, Andries Bekker, Juan De Jongh and Gio Aplon. The SA team will probably be the Stormers with the Sharks front row!

That would be alarming enough as an England fan... I read that they are trying to persuade Matfield to make a come back for the series....

by Knowsit17 Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:45

Knowsit, I'm not sure what someone sitting at home is thinking has any influence over a tour result in a different hemisphere! Positive thinking though

My philosophy is always lead by example in this department. Whether you're in the stadium, at your local or at home, believe in your side as much as you'd want your side to believe in themselves. Then at least they can rest assured knowing the nation is behind them.

Just to clear things up, I don't play for or have any affiliation with Wales either. I'm speaking from a fan's point of view thumbsup

by Cowshot Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 22:33

damngoodOvalball wrote:
Cowshot wrote:Hmf. That's a blow. I still think this Wales side are able to do well Down Under, but it doesn't make it any easier. Previous Welsh sides have imo had the beating of Australia, on a few occasions, and let it go though lack of self belief. This Welsh side seems to me to have got past that, but what effect will removing Gatland have? Handled well, it could even be an added incentive to the Welsh lads to give that bit more. If it gnaws at thei self belirf as a team, it's goodbye tour hello dmage limitation (again). However, on the bright side, it also means if the team does win anyway, the benefits in terms of self belief will be considerable. And I still think this Welsh side could, maybe even should, win the series.

(Fortunately, my words are very tasty and nutritious...)

Got to admire the confidence Cowshot, but this Welsh side have lost twice to Australia recently. Why do you think they should win a series (at least two Test's) in Oz? they have narrowly beaten Ireland and England away which is relatively impressive but hardly convincing victories. A grand slam is impressive, and Wales played some impressive rugby in the RWC but I dont see how that translates to them being possible favourites to win against Oz in Oz (assuming thats what you mean by "this Welsh side could, maybe even should, win the series."...

Repeated losses to a side cant solely be down to a lack of self belief. Surely there comes a time when one has to give credit to Oz as simply being the better team? Anyway, best of luck to Wales down South. They wont be a walkover for the Wallabies.

It's because I think this Welsh side is at least as talented as the recent sides that that narrowly lost to Australia, and they have a mental toughness which that those other sides lacked. While Australia can never be described as poor, they aren't at their strongest right now, and I reckon this Welsh side has the beating of them.

I could, of course, be wrong.

by HERSH Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 22:35

maestegmafia wrote:HERSH thought Wales would be wooden spoon contenders in the Six Nations championship we just won with a Grandslam.

I never said that!

I said anything less than a championship for Wales would be a backwards step, I even placed a bet and won some money on Wales winning a Slam.

I can't help but think that you have me confused with someone else Mae?

by maestegmafia Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 9:55

HERSH wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:HERSH thought Wales would be wooden spoon contenders in the Six Nations championship we just won with a Grandslam.

I never said that!

I said anything less than a championship for Wales would be a backwards step, I even placed a bet and won some money on Wales winning a Slam.

I can't help but think that you have me confused with someone else Mae?

HERSH wrote:

Re: Where in the table will Wales finish?
by HERSH on Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:25 pm

Seeing as Wales have taken the rugby world by storm with their huge leaps in fitness, professionalism and all round play I went for 3rd.

Better luck next year.

HERSH wrote:Re: Where in the table will Wales finish?
by HERSH on Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:25 pm

7th

HERSH wrote: Re: Where in the table will Wales finish?
by HERSH on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:44 pm

8th

HERSH wrote: Re: Where in the table will Wales finish?
by HERSH on Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:08 am

Wales world cup 2011 record - Played 7, Won 4, Lost 3

Hardly championship material!

I'd say 3rd or 4th place is about where Wales are.

by munkian Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 11:45

by maestegmafia Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 12:18

munkian wrote:Burn

He just retired didn't he?

by Morgannwg Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 13:51

#owned.

by HERSH Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 18:23

Mae I find it rather amusing that you wasted all that time looking up those quotes Laugh

Its the weekend enjoy your life you only get one, spend some time with your family for heavens sake. Headscratch

by Knowsit17 Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 18:28

Finally maes, someone with the initiative to expose a WUM clap

Better strategy though is to jot them down the first time you see them to save you having to dig them up afterwards.

by HERSH Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 18:58

But that was the point of that article!

On more serious articles I said anything less than a championship for Wales would be a step backwards.

Mae your more than welcome to spend the next few hours looking for them. Laugh

by sugarNspikes Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 21:20

Is evanjonescymru's bike shop site still live?

by Cowshot Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 1:35

Hersh: You were challenged, you replied, and your reply was clearly shown to be dangly bits.

I can understand why Welsh enthusiasm occasionally prompts the urge to smack someone (anyone nearby...) over the head with a large mallet, but really...

by Morgannwg Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 14:51

Australia's injuries starting to pile up too. Moving away from pessimism back to optimism.

by wales606 Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 16:25

Morgannwg wrote:Australia's injuries starting to pile up too. Moving away from pessimism back to optimism.

Only JOC really

They still have Cooper, Barnes and AAC in the midfield.

Lose a couple in the midfield and they will be weak there though - they lack depth at centre and 10 (With Barnes/JOC covering 10 aswell as playing centre/wing and AAC covering 11 - 15 they haven't developed depth in the centre)

by Morgannwg Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 19:02

Not sure about Cooper, don't know if he's back playing yet. Another Reds player was cropped, I think it was the centre. I think the team we will play will be almost identical to the one we played in the world cup minus JOC.

by wales606 Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 19:10

Morgannwg wrote:Not sure about Cooper, don't know if he's back playing yet. Another Reds player was cropped, I think it was the centre. I think the team we will play will be almost identical to the one we played in the world cup minus JOC.

I would like to see JOC at 10 again for Aus, pity he is injured

Barnes played very well when given the opportunity at 10, but really they need him in the centre, but they will have no choice if Cooper is out still.

Could be a weakness in midfield for Aus then. I dont know who their centres will be if Barnes plays 10 and JOC and Tupuai are out, I imagine AAC will be at 13 at least.

by munkian Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 20:51

O'Connor in doubt for June Tests Ouch !

by maestegmafia Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 22:42

Shame if O'Connor is out great player.

I really want to see our best against theirs. Injuries are unfortunately a big part of pro rugby.

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