A personal plea to Wayne Smith

I don't care what the specific role or job description is, please come to England!! Fantastic success record in a variety of squad types in Northampton, NZ, and Chiefs (who were perrenial under-achievers in spite of their squad until this year).

Seems the NZRFU are going to do everything they can to keep him in NZ.

I couldn’t care less for the problems England has in producing good teams, I’d rather Henry and Smith are retained to sort out the problems facing Auckland Rugby as a priority. To me (even as a Wellingtonian) that is more important than seeing England do better.

I read that he was offered all three of the following possibilities: attack coach, head coach and backline coach when SL and WS met in SA. Is SL in a position to offer him the second option? And does that not undermine his own position in offering him that?

Sorry it was at least 3 different possibilities: defence, backs and head coach http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/6813145/Wayne-Smith-mulls-over-England-coaching-offer

But the NZRFU don't like the idea of so much intellectual property leaving NZ: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/6819573/NZRU-look-to-keep-Wayne-Smith-from-England

Surely WS wouldn't be so silly as to leave NZ so soon after the WC to assist England, of all teams. That'd be a hero to zero effort right there. It's gotta be a bluff to gauge his value.

EBOP wrote:Surely WS wouldn't be so silly as to leave NZ so soon after the WC to assist England, of all teams. That'd be a hero to zero effort right there. It's gotta be a bluff to gauge his value.

Hmm. Ok, I'll bite.

England have just replaced their coaches, their manager, their Board and their CEO. Oh, and the team. It's been pretty much a root and branch clearout.

The talent available is young and very raw, but has shown well in its first 6Ns. And there's plenty more where it came from, homegrown and immigrant.

Smith is being offered a chance to make his mark on one of the great rugby nations, maybe for decades to come at this particular - and in my experience unique - moment in English Rugby. It has got to be tempting.

chewed_mintie wrote:I couldn’t care less for the problems England has in producing good teams, I’d rather Henry and Smith are retained to sort out the problems facing Auckland Rugby as a priority. To me (even as a Wellingtonian) that is more important than seeing England do better.

I don't think anyone was expecting All Black fans to particularly care about the state of the England team to be honest.

He's a professional coach - can you imagine how much his stock would rise if he got England to a home RWC final. If he could do that (a real possibility) I don't think he'd care too much about a few sniffy fans from the SH.

Having said that he didn't sound hugely positive in his latest interview.

thomh wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:I couldn’t care less for the problems England has in producing good teams, I’d rather Henry and Smith are retained to sort out the problems facing Auckland Rugby as a priority. To me (even as a Wellingtonian) that is more important than seeing England do better.

I don't think anyone was expecting All Black fans to particularly care about the state of the England team to be honest.

You forgot to mention ex AB player/coaches as well

Cowshot wrote:

EBOP wrote:Surely WS wouldn't be so silly as to leave NZ so soon after the WC to assist England, of all teams. That'd be a hero to zero effort right there. It's gotta be a bluff to gauge his value.

Hmm. Ok, I'll bite.

England have just replaced their coaches, their manager, their Board and their CEO. Oh, and the team. It's been pretty much a root and branch clearout.

The talent available is young and very raw, but has shown well in its first 6Ns. And there's plenty more where it came from, homegrown and immigrant.

Smith is being offered a chance to make his mark on one of the great rugby nations, maybe for decades to come at this particular - and in my experience unique - moment in English Rugby. It has got to be tempting.

+1

Enough of the parochialism. Rugby Union cant afford it. A strong England is good for world rubgy.

He said one of the key things for him to figure out was if he could coach a team against the All Blacks, as he loves the team so much.

It's great to see how refreshingly honest he is, and I often wonder about players and coaches in that position. If I were a pro rugby player I don't think I could play for a team that's not New Zealand, and I've only spent 18 months there in the last 10 years or so.

The 6N would be a big carrot as well as the salary as maybe he'd like to complete a set of NH trophies as well as the set of SH trophies he has.

I care about the state of the England team as I care about the game. Having the most populous nation rugby player wise floundering will do no good for it. In fact I want England, and all the other teams, to play great rugby. I just want NZ to beat them. That way the All Blacks, me, and the game wins

After the World cup,when it was announced that Smith was going from Canterbury to Waikato,Smith said in several interviews how great it was for him to be going back to the Waikato (hes from Putaururu) and how this was the first time in years that he could spend time "back home",and now hes off to England?

aucklandlaurie wrote: After the World cup,when it was announced that Smith was going from Canterbury to Waikato,Smith said in several interviews how great it was for him to be going back to the Waikato (hes from Putaururu) and how this was the first time in years that he could spend time "back home",and now hes off to England?

Sounds as though he'll turn it down then. For entirely understandable reasons, personal as well as professional. Fair enough.

You've got to feel for him and his family. He stops his AB commitments and he only travels away in the Super season, and then he gets an offer which professionally is hard to turn down. But this time it means moving his family to the UK and he sees even less of his family. A very tough choice.

Dan Parks is retired now from Scottish rugby so he might get the job using his innovative reverse instinct coaching methods.

disneychilly wrote:He said one of the key things for him to figure out was if he could coach a team against the All Blacks, as he loves the team so much.

It's great to see how refreshingly honest he is, and I often wonder about players and coaches in that position. If I were a pro rugby player I don't think I could play for a team that's not New Zealand, and I've only spent 18 months there in the last 10 years or so.

The 6N would be a big carrot as well as the salary as maybe he'd like to complete a set of NH trophies as well as the set of SH trophies he has.

I care about the state of the England team as I care about the game. Having the most populous nation rugby player wise floundering will do no good for it. In fact I want England, and all the other teams, to play great rugby. I just want NZ to beat them. That way the All Blacks, me, and the game wins

My sentiments almost exactly except i want England to beat all comers playing well. I tried to express this on another thread.

Let me put Mr Tew and his "he's our intellectual property" in context......

If English people many years had adopted that same attitude. This thread, Mr Tew and the All Blacks would not exist.

Put that in your precious pipes and smoke it kiwis!

Well to be fair Triangulation that's what any fan wants.

Besides we gave you John Mitchell and now he's on loan to SA. We have Henry in Wales, Kirwan in Japan, Deans in Australia and those are just a few national coaches from NZ. Then take into account coaches for clubs like Greg Feek in Ireland and let it be said NZ is not doing its bit to help improve world rugby.

As for the intellectual property comment, I think you´ll find all the smart ones came from Scotland.

If Smith was to become coach of England I wonder if he would fill the team up with Kiwis?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Well to be fair Triangulation that's what any fan wants.

Besides we gave you John Mitchell and now he's on loan to SA. We have Henry in Wales, Kirwan in Japan, Deans in Australia and those are just a few national coaches from NZ. Then take into account coaches for clubs like Greg Feek in Ireland and let it be said NZ is not doing its bit to help improve world rugby.

As for the intellectual property comment, I think you´ll find all the smart ones came from Scotland.

You're wrong. There are plenty of people on these threads who revel in seeing opponents playing poorly, particularly when its England.

So what this is the guy we want. We are in need of him.

Scotland, England it doesnt matter my comment stands.

I was saying any fan wants to see their own team play well against all comers. I think you´ll find many in NZ were encouraged by England´s efforts in this year's 6N. I don't think there's any hope of building bridges with many of your NH counterparts.

As for England need Smith coaches help England build towards 2015, well I'm afraid it's not up to England to sway his decision. It's what he wants and feels what is best for his family. It's not up to Kiwi fans to decide either so I'm afraid your point is moot.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote: I was saying any fan wants to see their own team play well against all comers. I think you´ll find many in NZ were encouraged by England´s efforts in this year's 6N. I don't think there's any hope of building bridges with many of your NH counterparts.

As for England need Smith coaches help England build towards 2015, well I'm afraid it's not up to England to sway his decision. It's what he wants and feels what is best for his family. It's not up to Kiwi fans to decide either so I'm afraid your point is moot.

Right. The quote in full was about wanting opponents to play well AND still beating them. You needed to be more clear about which bits you say "all fans want" . Were not mindreaders on here!

Dont be so afraid. Tew is the mouth. Tew is the one "fighting to keep Smith" trying to sway his decision no doubt. (without actually making him head coach of the ABs)

My point was directed at Tew. Tew either needs to put up i,e give smith something he wants or shut up and stop interfering in our negotiations with Smith.

I agree that ultimately it is Smith's decision. You did get that right.

Triangulation wrote:

disneychilly wrote:He said one of the key things for him to figure out was if he could coach a team against the All Blacks, as he loves the team so much.

It's great to see how refreshingly honest he is, and I often wonder about players and coaches in that position. If I were a pro rugby player I don't think I could play for a team that's not New Zealand, and I've only spent 18 months there in the last 10 years or so.

The 6N would be a big carrot as well as the salary as maybe he'd like to complete a set of NH trophies as well as the set of SH trophies he has.

I care about the state of the England team as I care about the game. Having the most populous nation rugby player wise floundering will do no good for it. In fact I want England, and all the other teams, to play great rugby. I just want NZ to beat them. That way the All Blacks, me, and the game wins

My sentiments almost exactly except i want England to beat all comers playing well. I tried to express this on another thread.

FYI

Well I hardly think it's foul play on Tew's part to try and keep home grown talent. Let me give Shaun Edwards as an example where England wanted to keep their own.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Well I hardly think it's foul play on Tew's part to try and keep home grown talent. Let me give Shaun Edwards as an example where England wanted to keep their own.

Agreed but it is highly annoying if he's playing the old patriotic banjo without offering Smith anything. That would be whatever he says to the contrary spoiling pure and simple.

It is possibly a hard enough decision without Tew tugging on heartstrings. What do they desperately want Smith doing in New Zealand rugby? Continuing on with the Chiefs?

Isnt Tew the same bloke who threatened an AB withdrawal of RWC2015 in the middle of your home RWC?!?

All blacks?

More like Tew inspired blackmail. blackmail seems to be his Modus Operandi

Well in fairness if if he made it after the World Cup nobody would have listened. Unethical, I agree. But effective, yes. Maybe he is getting Dr Evil lessons from John O'Neill.

As for Smith, he is probably desperately needed at the Blues I'd say!

I think having Smith in there would have kiwis supporting England in a way we never have. Similar to Wales when GH was there.

Cant quite say the feeling is the same for Deans though!

But other than the England NZ match ups where even a Smith influenced England side would find it tough I think we would revel in any England success purely because of smiths presence. We'd feel a 'part of it' somehow meaning more rugby to watch with interest when we're not playing.

Personally Id love to see him go and its a good feeling knowing our players and coaches are now all over the world doing their bit to help keep this wonderful game alive.

Taylorman wrote:I think having Smith in there would have kiwis supporting England in a way we never have. Similar to Wales when GH was there.

Cant quite say the feeling is the same for Deans though!

But other than the England NZ match ups where even a Smith influenced England side would find it tough I think we would revel in any England success purely because of smiths presence. We'd feel a 'part of it' somehow meaning more rugby to watch with interest when we're not playing.

Personally Id love to see him go and its a good feeling knowing our players and coaches are now all over the world doing their bit to help keep this wonderful game alive.

That's the spirit!

Triangulation wrote:All blacks?

More like Tew inspired blackmail. blackmail seems to be his Modus Operandi

Looks incredibly over the top to me. What has blackmail got to do with anything?

Tew has come out and emphasized how important Smith has been throughout his career in NZ. He has stressed that keeping him is in the best interests of NZ Rugby. Lancaster is clearly not the only one with a "vision", Smith is apparently an integral part of Tew's own vision from what he's said.

From what I understand (and I could be wording it wrong) pro rugby in NZ functions more as a single collective machine than it does in England. Only a separate agreement enables the RFU to pick the players without opposition from the clubs. In NZ are they not centrally contracted? The way Tew is describing it, it's in the NZRU's best interests that every part of the machine be at its best or NZ Rugby won't be. And Smith is a man who can help ensure this. That's what I understand.

I don't see how you can blast a country for wanting to keep one of their best at their service, we in Wales desire the same in terms of players which is why the exodus is being treated as such an issue. Wouldn't you prefer Shaun Edwards to be coaching in England than in Wales?

Thats true about the single collective thing knowsit. In short everything leads to the ABs. Even our motivation for having the sxv is first and formost that we know it will lead to a stronger AB side. Unlike some countries the success of the ABs has a big impact on our country as whole, socially, financially etc.

Unlike the NH club scene our sxv coaches support the AB first as a model though there are the odd gripes now and then but nothing like the release problems you have in the NH.

It is a very difficult decision for WS by all accounts and whichever way it goes should be respected. Lancaster will no doubt be disappointed if he declines but I doubt he will agonise over it. I get the impression that SL will just move on, he certainly won't beg and I believe he will get the most out of any coach that joins the team. He is all about commitment from everyone involved and I'm sure he will end up with someone who fits.

Triangulation wrote:

Taylorman wrote:I think having Smith in there would have kiwis supporting England in a way we never have. Similar to Wales when GH was there.

Cant quite say the feeling is the same for Deans though!

But other than the England NZ match ups where even a Smith influenced England side would find it tough I think we would revel in any England success purely because of smiths presence. We'd feel a 'part of it' somehow meaning more rugby to watch with interest when we're not playing.

Personally Id love to see him go and its a good feeling knowing our players and coaches are now all over the world doing their bit to help keep this wonderful game alive.

That's the spirit!

All this talk about world rugby needing a strong England, give me a break. I'd say England are strong and at about where they've always been.

Do people think NZ has an obligation to dish out all it's best coaches to help prop up world rugby? I'm surprised we do so well given the constant outflow of players and coaches each year. And all the thanks we get in return, is hassles over the haka

There's not a snow ball's chance in hell I'd support WS or England if he left. I'm the same with gatland and deans. They're dead to me until they return to NZ.

And before anyone jumps on that comment, have a think about how many of your countries' players/coaches contribute to NZ rugby. We have Haskell, and you know what, I think it's awesome and I've enjoyed having him in NZ and watching him play.

EbOP

But do you think the same way about guys like Steve Mcdowell and his contribution to Rumania,Kieren Crowley and Canada,JK with Japan or Isitolo Maaka with Tonga in other words coutries further down the tree a bit?

Well I guess its the us and them factor then isnt it EBOP? NZ rugby is very strong at the moment at every single level of the game- 7's, Womens, schools, age groups and now finally at the very top of the game.

This despite having many of our top players and coaches contributing significantly overseas in all sorts of places and levels at the same time.

My view is we have a gluttony of rugby talent and its selfish to try and retain it all for all concerned. We don't have enough rugby here for them all. Truth is we don't need overseas injection here and I'm rather surprised there isnt more of it- even if to just gain an insight to our way of playing the game- money oddly the determining factor. Why play harder for less kind of thing?

Not all Kiwi's will hold this view I know but for now I think its a good thing. If we were to start losing I might think differently.

aucklandlaurie wrote: EbOP

But do you think the same way about guys like Steve Mcdowell and his contribution to Rumania,Kieren Crowley and Canada,JK with Japan or Isitolo Maaka with Tonga in other words coutries further down the tree a bit?

Nah, of course not, I'd love to see second tier nations get all the support they can from us and other tier one nations. I applaud all foreign coaches that take on such a task, full respect and support to grow the global game.

Taylorman
Well there's one level of NZ rugby thats not strong...Aucklands top level.but seriously if rugby dies then we die.

EBOP
Good man we are on the same page..

Talking of All Black coaches,news has just come over the radio that the greatest All Black coach of all died this morning .
RIP ...The Needle.

Taylorman wrote:Well I guess its the us and them factor then isnt it EBOP? NZ rugby is very strong at the moment at every single level of the game- 7's, Womens, schools, age groups and now finally at the very top of the game.

This despite having many of our top players and coaches contributing significantly overseas in all sorts of places and levels at the same time.

My view is we have a gluttony of rugby talent and its selfish to try and retain it all for all concerned. We don't have enough rugby here for them all. Truth is we don't need overseas injection here and I'm rather surprised there isnt more of it- even if to just gain an insight to our way of playing the game- money oddly the determining factor. Why play harder for less kind of thing?

Not all Kiwi's will hold this view I know but for now I think its a good thing. If we were to start losing I might think differently.

Yeah, sport is 'us vs them' by its very nature. Anything different is contriving to be anything but sport. I don't feel sorry for any tier one country that goes through a slump and gets pummelled accordingly, we've all been there including the ABs, and others revel in it as they should. It's horrible as a fan to go through but there shouldn't be sympathy, that's sport and that's why it's great.

I really think your attitude is admirable, albeit a bit too charitable when in relation to tier one countries. Sure we have a glut of talent accross the board and opportunities for all isn't possible. Our talent would be best served growing the tier two countries, but the cream aren't going to do that ($$) and no one would expect them to be so charitable as to do it for peanuts. Basically, with England being the great nation they are, shouldn't need foreign coaches. I'd say the same about any tier one country.

So with the glut, when the well runs dry, that's when we'll be in the schtuck. I'd be surprised if other countries would be so charitable or want to help the ABs. They'd love it, and I'd expect them to, cause that's sport.

Like you, I'm surprised there isnt more overseas players in NZ. They'd be welcomed and I'm sure they'd gain something, but rugby is all about $$ unfortunately. Perhaps I was a bit harsh in my language, apologies to English fans if it sounds bitter.

RIP Sir Fred Allen, an amazing much loved kiwi icon, farewell.

Kiwis

Tonight at 6.00pm Sky Sports one is doing an hour long tribute to Sir Fred before the Hurricanes v Chiefs game.

Thanks Laurie, will be sure to catch it

At one level sport is us vs them; but unless we both love the game, we won't be playing at all. Doesn't this mean that at a level higher than us vs them we are in fact united?

Yes...good chat folks

Hansen sure doesnt want him to go...understandable...
http://m.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/6824761/Steve-Hansen-hopes-Smith-will-spurn-England

aucklandlaurie wrote: Kiwis

Tonight at 6.00pm Sky Sports one is doing an hour long tribute to Sir Fred before the Hurricanes v Chiefs game.

I missed that chat, but Hurricanes v Chiefs was a great game for watching.

This chiefs team is very good indeed. I like Hika Elliot and Brodie Retalick.

They along with Augustine Pulu will be all blacks very soon ( I know Elliot play already in the tour few years a go but I think now he make much better than effort over the field and improving on the core skill). Aaron Cruden shows so much experience now he is better for the world cup turn out how it did. Before he look nervous, but now must be one of the best running number 10 in the game around.

Wayne Smith has to make up what is best for the future of his family,to come here or stay where he is.Whatever decision he makes we must respect it he has
helped turn the Chiefs into a very good side.Also Created a problem for NZ selectors.Aaron Cruden is now heir apparent to Dan Carter,12 is a problem position.Nonu is out of form,Carter has publicly stated he is a 10 not a12,SBW will be playing League or in Japan next year.Pointless persisting with SBW unless he is prepared to committ to NZRU.Dan Carter could easily run the ship from 12
Pat Walsh did in the 1960`s.

I don't agree about SBW Emack. If he is the best this year then take him for now

Nonu was poor for the Hurricanes last year as well emack but I think he'll be given the test jersey to prove himself with SBW in the reserves just in case as centre will be targeted as an area to attack against Ireland.

Read today in stuff that coaching the Blues would allow Smith a test of his coaching skills and an ideal situation to build a team of substance out of its present ashes. Makes a lot of sense although the money will be nothing compared to what England can offer.

But it's his choice and his choice alone. But I think the Blues situation is a serious one and our biggest franchise area is crying out for someone with mana to turn the ship around.

He's turn down the role to stay at the Chiefs

Brilliant for for NZ rugby! I can see him taking on the basket case up the road next season....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17908750

Given that he cited loyalty to the Chiefs as a reason for turning us down, I'd be a bit annoyed if he then moved clubs.

I think his main priority is looking after his parents and Waikato is close to them so it was a natural fit. Seeing as Auckland would also be close to his parents, then I’m sure it wouldn’t exactly be criminal of him to leave the Chiefs after this season - he has an exit clause for that. Afterall, his employer is the NZRFU so he answers to them and if they want him to move up the road, then so be it.