Rob Penney - New Munster head coach

Munster Rugby wrote:Rob Penney was today confirmed as Munster's new Head Coach

The 48 year old has been Head Coach of Canterbury since 2006, and last season took them to their fourth straight ITM Cup national provincial title. He also has Super Rugby coaching experience with the Crusaders where he was assistant coach in 2005 when they won the Super 12 title and he has maintained his involvement with the Crusaders as Development Squad Coach.

A former Canterbury Academy Manager, Penney will coach the defending World Champion New Zealand Under 20 side during next month’s IRB Junior World Championship in South Africa,and he is expected to arrive in Munster in mid July for the start of a two year contract subject to obtaining a valid work permit.

Anthony Foley will continue on as Forwards Coach while expected change in the rest of the management team will be finalised following consultation with the new Head Coach.

Commenting on the appointment Munster CEO Garrett Fitzgerald said, " We conducted a thorough search to find a replacement for Tony McGahan and were delighted with the calibre of the candidates. Rob Penney's record speaks for itself and we look forward to welcoming him to Munster.”

Penney leaves Canterbury with reluctant best wishes according to Canterbury Rugby Football Union CEO Hamish Riach, “Rob has been a great servant for Canterbury rugby. We are very sorry to lose a talented coach, but this is a fantastic opportunity for him and we wish him all the best.”

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/10444.php

Absolutely feicin delighted!

Really why? He has very little super rugby experience.

You never know, could be an inspired move. The Jury's out, but fair play for taking a punt.

He is more successful than anscombe anyway but both are relative gambles. We love our NZ coaches over here don't we.

I find it amazing that Munster managed to keep this one so quiet until the official announcement. Granted everyone was hoping it would be Penney but up until this morning that was pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Keeping Foley in the Forwards coach position is the right move IMO. To promote him to Head Coach this soon could have potentially harmed his career should he not prove up to scratch. Instead he has an opportunity to learn from one of New Zealand's best coaches.

The rest of the ticket will be announced at a later date, my guess being that Penney may take a number of Canterbury coaches with him. To have a properly qualified attack coach will make a very welcome change!

For me the most important thing about this announcement is that it's an outsider who's coming in, and not "one of the boys". Munster need new ideas and Penney and whoever makes up the rest of the ticket will bring that.

There's a lot of raw talent in the current squad, as evidenced by the B & I Cup win last weekend, I'm very excited to see how far Penney can take this team.

Roll on 2012/2013!

Isn't Penney predominantly a forwards coach himself though? So will he be actually doing any of the coaching or will he be more of a Connor O'Shea "director of rugby" type figure?

leinsterbaby wrote:Really why? He has very little super rugby experience.

That's true leinsterbaby but the only other candidates were Foley (too soon), Umaga (no experience) and Eddie the Eagle (no thanks!). Penney's record with Canterbury in the ITM cup is remarkable. He gets the best out of young and up-and-coming players. He'll bring something different. Munster have been getting more and more stale in their ideas since 2010.

I'm delighted with this appointment (and with the professionalism with which it's been handled by the Munster branch).

Mickado wrote:Isn't Penney predominantly a forwards coach himself though? So will he be actually doing any of the coaching or will he be more of a Connor O'Shea "director of rugby" type figure?

I'd imagine he'll be predominantly a DoR but will also act as mentor to Foley.

I'm happy enough. None of the candidates were stand out world class international coaches. But Penney could be a good shout.

He'll bring new ideas to Munster and the presense of Foley should keep him grounded in our ethos.

Mickado wrote:Isn't Penney predominantly a forwards coach himself though? So will he be actually doing any of the coaching or will he be more of a Connor O'Shea "director of rugby" type figure?

I'd say he'll be getting dug in. One really good thing about Penney is that he is a coach in Canterbury/Crusaders Elite Coaching international Academy that all the european coaches head over to!

So now Leinster, Ulster and Munster have Kiwi's in charge.

leinsterbaby wrote:Really why? He has very little super rugby experience.

Its pretty much political (he was in the Robbie Deans camp) why he didn't get to coach Super Rugby. Doesn't see eye-to-eye with Tew (the NZRU bloke).

Would have preferred Foley...however not too disappointed.

As in all things with coaches if he is a winning coach he will be the best thing since the sliced pan...if he is a losing coach....good luck!

He's a really good deal. Should go well. There are only 5 super 15 franchises in NZ. He was in the mix to take Lam's job at the Blues next year (assuming he's pushed). I'm not sure a kiwi s15 coach is realistic for Munster, given that Hansen is untried and the current coaches are likely to stay as the NZRFU policy is to appoint from within. You'd be getting them for the wrong reason (i.e. money rather than experience). He's a good coach, on his way up, I think you may be pleasently surprised. It's certainly a loss for NZ.

DOD wrote:Would have preferred Foley...however not too disappointed.

As in all things with coaches if he is a winning coach he will be the best thing since the sliced pan...if he is a losing coach....good luck!

All the signs are that he is an excellent signing and good at developing players. We have a lot of relatively young players who have not developed over the last few years despite us having the best A side in the provinces in that time. Its time that a lot of them were either shipped out or brought in. Might be the man to do that.

Feckless Rogue wrote:So now Leinster, Ulster and Munster have Kiwi's in charge.

And a spud is in charge of Ireland! :P

Great. So not only are there more New Zealanders playing professionally outside New Zealand than in it, there's probably more professional NZ coaches in the rest of the world too.

abittiredofusholdingeveryoneelseshand.com

Sorry, just venting there. Penney's been a good coach working up through the ranks in NZ (including a stint with my beloved Marlborough), I think he'll fit in well at Munster.

Eddie the Eagle (no thanks!).

I can't say that I'm thrilled. He may be wonderful as a coach at this level but no one can say that for sure yet. What Munster needs is also is an experienced backs coach and I've yet to see one.

I get the impression that the IRFU think they can get away with looking in the bargain basement for coaches. People may not like Eddie but at least he has a proven record. When is the last time that the provinces got a coach who had actually been a head coach for a H cup or S15 side? Have they ever? And what's with all the southern hemisphere coaches? Do they come with fairy dust do you think? Munster is as seriously successful side and should be attracting the best and experienced coaches as well as paying well for their services.

When Michael Cheika came in for Leinster it took him a couple of years to make improvements in that side. Probably because he was still learning his trade. If this happens now with Munster that'll be two years in the doldroms watching our talented players getting older and going nowhere. I hope not. I really really hope not. But I can see this happening.

intotouch - the whole culture had to be changed at Leinster when Cheika came. I remember someone remarking about Leinster at the time that "Leinster was like a third world county with the girls out the back doing all the work". That doesn't have to happen in Munster.

As for proven coaches - the ones you'd want from the really top clubs are not going to move (Noves, Vern Cotter, Schmidt).

Penney is consistently winning in a country that takes its rugby seriously. I'm looking forward to the U20s world cup - it will be interesting to see how the Baby Blacks perform.

MMC wrote:I find it amazing that Munster managed to keep this one so quiet until the official announcement. Granted everyone was hoping it would be Penney but up until this morning that was pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Keeping Foley in the Forwards coach position is the right move IMO. To promote him to Head Coach this soon could have potentially harmed his career should he not prove up to scratch. Instead he has an opportunity to learn from one of New Zealand's best coaches.

The rest of the ticket will be announced at a later date, my guess being that Penney may take a number of Canterbury coaches with him. To have a properly qualified attack coach will make a very welcome change!

For me the most important thing about this announcement is that it's an outsider who's coming in, and not "one of the boys". Munster need new ideas and Penney and whoever makes up the rest of the ticket will bring that.

There's a lot of raw talent in the current squad, as evidenced by the B & I Cup win last weekend, I'm very excited to see how far Penney can take this team.

Roll on 2012/2013!

The bolded bit is so important.
Munster need new ideas.
Glad Foley is still involved. Hope Penny brings a Kiwi attack coach with him.

Good stuff Munster

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

MMC wrote:I find it amazing that Munster managed to keep this one so quiet until the official announcement. Granted everyone was hoping it would be Penney but up until this morning that was pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Keeping Foley in the Forwards coach position is the right move IMO. To promote him to Head Coach this soon could have potentially harmed his career should he not prove up to scratch. Instead he has an opportunity to learn from one of New Zealand's best coaches.

The rest of the ticket will be announced at a later date, my guess being that Penney may take a number of Canterbury coaches with him. To have a properly qualified attack coach will make a very welcome change!

For me the most important thing about this announcement is that it's an outsider who's coming in, and not "one of the boys". Munster need new ideas and Penney and whoever makes up the rest of the ticket will bring that.

There's a lot of raw talent in the current squad, as evidenced by the B & I Cup win last weekend, I'm very excited to see how far Penney can take this team.

Roll on 2012/2013!

The bolded bit is so important.
Munster need new ideas.
Glad Foley is still involved. Hope Penny brings a Kiwi attack coach with him.

Good stuff Munster

I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well.

Tigers do tend to appoint head coaches from the lists of former players, they tried Loffreda (an epic fail, he was despised by the senior players) and Meyer (left for family reasons 6 months in) they didn't really work. The more successful coaches were the ones that understood the ethos but they were also the ones that brought in something from the outside as well. Cockers is developing a good squad now but the head coach Matt O'Connor is an Aussie with RL experience. Pat Howard was another enterprising Aussie who had played for the club before starting his career with Clermont (his no 2 there was Cockerill). It's important to get a mix of experience so that a good ethos is maintained but something new is brought to the table to expand on what is currently there.

Incidentally if Munster get Aaron Mauger as the backs coach you'll be happy, in his last season with Tigers he took on some of the backs coaching and our backline has never looked quite so inventive.

Looks like a very (and typically) astute appointment - the last piece of the jigsaw imo will be the backs coach as others (far more knowledgeable than I) have already pointed out - any takers for Gregor Townsend?

Sin é wrote:I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

So I take it you're not in favour, Sin é?

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

So I take it you're not in favour, Sin é?

No, I'm not in favour of the non-stop Leinster chant of home grown bad, foreigner good.

I'm pleased with Penney's appointment, but I would have been equally happy with Axel being appointed. Most teams know if a coach has it or hasn't got it. Daryl Gibson turned down the Leicester Head Coach job a few years ago (2008) with no coaching experience to return to NZ to assist with the Crusaders. He is younger than Axel.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

MMC wrote:I find it amazing that Munster managed to keep this one so quiet until the official announcement. Granted everyone was hoping it would be Penney but up until this morning that was pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Keeping Foley in the Forwards coach position is the right move IMO. To promote him to Head Coach this soon could have potentially harmed his career should he not prove up to scratch. Instead he has an opportunity to learn from one of New Zealand's best coaches.

The rest of the ticket will be announced at a later date, my guess being that Penney may take a number of Canterbury coaches with him. To have a properly qualified attack coach will make a very welcome change!

For me the most important thing about this announcement is that it's an outsider who's coming in, and not "one of the boys". Munster need new ideas and Penney and whoever makes up the rest of the ticket will bring that.

There's a lot of raw talent in the current squad, as evidenced by the B & I Cup win last weekend, I'm very excited to see how far Penney can take this team.

Roll on 2012/2013!

The bolded bit is so important.
Munster need new ideas.
Glad Foley is still involved. Hope Penny brings a Kiwi attack coach with him.

Good stuff Munster

I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

MMC wrote:I find it amazing that Munster managed to keep this one so quiet until the official announcement. Granted everyone was hoping it would be Penney but up until this morning that was pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Keeping Foley in the Forwards coach position is the right move IMO. To promote him to Head Coach this soon could have potentially harmed his career should he not prove up to scratch. Instead he has an opportunity to learn from one of New Zealand's best coaches.

The rest of the ticket will be announced at a later date, my guess being that Penney may take a number of Canterbury coaches with him. To have a properly qualified attack coach will make a very welcome change!

For me the most important thing about this announcement is that it's an outsider who's coming in, and not "one of the boys". Munster need new ideas and Penney and whoever makes up the rest of the ticket will bring that.

There's a lot of raw talent in the current squad, as evidenced by the B & I Cup win last weekend, I'm very excited to see how far Penney can take this team.

Roll on 2012/2013!

The bolded bit is so important.
Munster need new ideas.
Glad Foley is still involved. Hope Penny brings a Kiwi attack coach with him.

Good stuff Munster

I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

Sin-

Don't think it anything to do with that personally.
If anything I think Munster need to move away from their ethos in a way.
The thought of Mick Galway shouting at the 10 for giving the ball to the backs is without doubt an exaggerated example but Munster players seem to have slow, tough, honest, direct rugby built into their DNA. That is great.

Unfortunatly when the game needs to be loosened up a lot Munster players with that DNA are completely clueless. Whenever I see POC take the ball in the 10 channel after a break/half break I know the move is about to break down. He doesn't have the vision in attack to play the right pass and he isn't going to break the line or even make many yards when he is in the 10 channel. AKA: The move is about to breakdown. Other second rows would be able to deal with that, modern second rows.

Their aren't many Munster players with that DNA (that is unique and hugely useful in certain games) who can actually play modern rugby as well.

POC is one example there are others.

I just think Munster need someone outside that, who defintely doesn't have that same DNA to lead them for a while. BUT they need to use that DNA that made them win 6 from 6 in the HCup. That inner steel, self belief, toughness, ability to the basics to very high standards and most importantly pride. That is why I am glad Foley is still involved but glad he isn't Head Coach.

I believe Munster not adapting to modern rugby and relying on that DNA is why their last two seasons (this one included) haven't been completely up to their very high standards.

I think they are a very good team and will become an excellent team they just need time to change tact while maintaining some of their culture at the same time to get a good balance.

I agree with Pete.

We need new ideas and Penney is a good fit.

Anthony Foley as his assistant keeps things grounded in the Munster ethos.

Munster will evolve slowly. We are not ripping up the book on "How to play for Munster" but we will adapt.

red_stag wrote:
Munster will evolve slowly. We are not ripping up the book on "How to play for Munster" but we will adapt.

That's it in a nutshell for me

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
POC is one example there are others.

I just think Munster need someone outside that, who defintely doesn't have that same DNA to lead them for a while. BUT they need to use that DNA that made them win 6 from 6 in the HCup. That inner steel, self belief, toughness, ability to the basics to very high standards and most importantly pride. That is why I am glad Foley is still involved but glad he isn't Head Coach.

I believe Munster not adapting to modern rugby and relying on that DNA is why their last two seasons (this one included) haven't been completely up to their very high standards.

I think they are a very good team and will become an excellent team they just need time to change tact while maintaining some of their culture at the same time to get a good balance.

We just got rid of Laurie Fischer and there has been a big improvement in our forward play since then. POC takes on the ball maybe too much, but we don't have any other ball carriers with Leamy and Wally out. And one thing about POC, he generally sucks in two or three defenders. (You may have also noticed that POC has missed quiet a lot of time over the last 2 seasons through injury).

Comparing Leinster to Munster - Leinster have a wealth of ball carriers like Healy, Cronin, SOB, mcLaughlin, Ruddock etc. etc. And as if you didn't have enough (and you knew you were missing Hines), Leinster brought in Brad Thorn.

Downey might make a bit of a difference next season, as like Leinster, we have very small centres who need to be protected. Downey will offer a bit of muscle there.

red_stag wrote:I agree with Pete.

We need new ideas and Penney is a good fit.

Anthony Foley as his assistant keeps things grounded in the Munster ethos.

Munster will evolve slowly. We are not ripping up the book on "How to play for Munster" but we will adapt.

New ideas from Graham Henry are not going to turn POC into a better ball carrier.

SinE there is more to Munster than Paul O'Connell.

New ideas will turn Munster into a better team however.

If Foley took over as head coach I would liked to have seen a new backs coach partner him.

DOD said the wisest thing. If the foreign coach wins, he'll be the best since sliced bread. If he loses, people will be offering to buy him his ticket home.

But why does the addition of 'foreign' have to be inserted.

A coach wins and people will be happy, a coach doesn't and people will regret the decision to hire. Isn't that natural? Of course it is.

I hope Penney is a great success and I hope Munster fans who mumble about Axel being just as good will forget they even care about that argument as soon as next season. Ireland needs strong Provinces, Ireland needs a constant stream of high quality players. That's achieve by constantly rising the bar for each other and I hope Munster can begin to rise the bar and offer new challenges to the current poster boys of Leinster.

I'm happy for now. But just like the wise old owl DOD - I'll only be happy as long as this Penney shows he has something to offer. I'll chip in for his plane ticket home if he's a dud.

Fly...if you point out where in this thread I used the word Foreign then I will leave your tormented soul alone....

I dont care if he is from Mars once he is a good coach. I would have been happy with Foley and a Foley/Bradley ticket to my mind would have been excellent.

Bradley will get his chance with Ireland/Munster in the future...or wouldnt you like the idea of an Irish coach with an expansive and offloading gameplan...or would he have to be foreign first? Given Bradleys all year tan if he just changed his accent from that awful Cork one like you might just accept him

DOD wrote:Fly...if you point out where in this thread I used the word Foreign then I will leave your tormented soul alone....

I dont care if he is from Mars once he is a good coach. I would have been happy with Foley and a Foley/Bradley ticket to my mind would have been excellent.

Bradley will get his chance with Ireland/Munster in the future...or wouldnt you like the idea of an Irish coach with an expansive and offloading gameplan...or would he have to be foreign first? Given Bradleys all year tan if he just changed his accent from that awful Cork one like you might just accept him

I profoundly apologise DOD, I did misquote you terribly. My only excuse is that I really did think you said it that way and I must have had two opinions in my head at one time (namely yours and Sin é's!) - and thus my tormented soul

But I'm happy to see that even when I genuinely compliment you on your cool wisdom, when all the others are burying themselves in the detail, you still manage to find the offending bits. Congratulations... always vigilant.

And why do you guys always mention the 'foreign' based Irish guys? I'm on record as saying I think actually the best Irish coach on these islands is still on the Irish one - coaching Connacht. Or is there a vendetta against him coaching a bigger side that I haven't heard of up here in the leafy suburbs of beachhouse heaven in Killiney?

Daryl Gibson turned down the Leicester Head Coach job a few years ago (2008)

I thought that was for a Backs coach. Howard left and Tigers wanted an international DOR in Loffreda but he was primarily a forwards coach so they wanted a backs coach who knew the club and Gibson was always a bit of a club favourite. He coached up in Scotland before returning to NZ as well I think. Rumours were also around that Austin wanted the job but that wouldn't have worked well as Cockers was the forwards coach.

DOD wrote:a Foley/Bradley ticket to my mind would have been excellent.

Id have loved that.

Sin é wrote:

I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

Small correction Sin, Wayne Smith played his whole provincial career for Canterbury (and made his name coaching the Crusaders). While he grew up in the Waikato (moving to Christchurch for his teacher training when he was 17 or 18) he never played for Waikato (and the Chiefs didn't exist while he was a player).

Kiwireddevil wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

Small correction Sin, Wayne Smith played his whole provincial career for Canterbury (and made his name coaching the Crusaders). While he grew up in the Waikato (moving to Christchurch for his teacher training when he was 17 or 18) he never played for Waikato (and the Chiefs didn't exist while he was a player).

I realise that about Smith (should have been clear about it). What I meant was that he became a coach with the team he played for.

Sin é wrote:

I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

In-house in NZ is different to in-house in Ireland. We got rid of Gatland for EOS and won nothing. Likewise, McGahan came from the Munster setup and the team have gone backwards. We just don't have the quality of coaches.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Daryl Gibson turned down the Leicester Head Coach job a few years ago (2008)

I thought that was for a Backs coach. Howard left and Tigers wanted an international DOR in Loffreda but he was primarily a forwards coach so they wanted a backs coach who knew the club and Gibson was always a bit of a club favourite. He coached up in Scotland before returning to NZ as well I think. Rumours were also around that Austin wanted the job but that wouldn't have worked well as Cockers was the forwards coach.

In his own words:

"I was offered the head coach's role (at Leicester) and then various people wanted me to be their assistants and I turned them down. I turned Leicester down mainly because I knew that if I was to take a job like that, it would require a three-year commitment and I wasn't prepared to stay in the UK for another three years," Gibson said.

Good article here about the Crusaders coaching team set-up. All very inexperienced at the time.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/629135

profitius wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

In-house in NZ is different to in-house in Ireland. We got rid of Gatland for EOS and won nothing. Likewise, McGahan came from the Munster setup and the team have gone backwards. We just don't have the quality of coaches.

EOS won a couple of Triple Crowns though.
Yep, they have a massive amount of talent coming through in NZ, though even they struggled when Carter got injured for the world cup. I saw there recently that Kidney has capped 20 players in the last couple of years. Thats a massive amount of players to cap. Same way with McGahan. Munster had a great run of it really this year despite all the injuries. McGahan wasn't as poor as people make out. In the time he has been around Earls, Murray, Jones and O'Mahony have all been capped - not much worse than Leinster's contribution to Ireland's cause: Healy, SOB, Sexton and Ross.

profitius wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I think its a load of b****lix. Its applicable to Leinster who have never produced a coach of their own to know if it matters. All the other provinces have produced some top class coaches (i.e., Tom Kiernan, Willie John, Mick Doyle to start with). Leinster have produced Jim Glennon

The great clubs like to keep it in-house - Toulouse for example. They never employ coaches who haven't played for them. Leicester also work along those lines as well. Todd Blackadder, Wayne Smith all played for the teams they now coach.

The Leinster chorus of you must have an outsider is because they have never had the experience of having an insider to coach them in their memories.

In-house in NZ is different to in-house in Ireland. We got rid of Gatland for EOS and won nothing. Likewise, McGahan came from the Munster
setup and the team have gone backwards. We just don't have the quality of coaches.

To be honest Munster didnt go backwards , they just didnt win Heineken Cups with an aging team. He may have been slow to change but the last two seasons despite the obvious setbacks of the groups last year and Ulster this year he has blooded an large amount of players in both HC and Pro 12.

And it was definately a better reign than that of bloody Gaffney.

I think McGahan did a good job. Not spectacular but good.

DOD is right. If Munster win things they'll love the coach. If they lose a lot, the fans will want him gone. This would be true if he's Irish or foreign. It doesn't matter where he's from.

And I'm not sure about this idea that they need Foley because he's from Munster and they'd lose the Munster ethos without him. I would hope they need Foley because he's a good coach.

Munster are proud of where they're from. Their passionate and they'll die for the red jersey. Stand up and fight. That's the Munster ethos. It's not rocket science is it? Any coach with a brain will be aware of the Munster ethos and be eager to tap into it.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think McGahan did a good job. Not spectacular but good.

DOD is right. If Munster win things they'll love the coach. If they lose a lot, the fans will want him gone. This would be true if he's Irish or foreign. It doesn't matter where he's from.

And I'm not sure about this idea that they need Foley because he's from Munster and they'd lose the Munster ethos without him. I would hope they need Foley because he's a good coach.

Munster are proud of where they're from. Their passionate and they'll die for the red jersey. Stand up and fight. That's the Munster ethos. It's not rocket science is it? Any coach with a brain will be aware of the Munster ethos and be eager to tap into it.

+1 well said Feckless...

McGahan didnt develop (enough) existing players from the A Team and Academy. Penney comes with that reputation of being able to bring players through.

By the way, Thornley, Shaggy and Wood talk about the appointment in this Newstalk podcast

http://media.newstalk.ie/podcast/62341/popup

They seem to rate this guy very highly. Higher than the new Ulster fella that's coming in. Thornley also says that Foley is still being groomed to be Munster coach. In fact in Munster they believe he's good enough to be Ireland coach in the future. But they want him to learn under this guy for a while longer.

Feckless Rogue wrote:By the way, Thornley, Shaggy and Wood talk about the appointment in this Newstalk podcast

http://media.newstalk.ie/podcast/62341/popup

They seem to rate this guy very highly. Higher than the new Ulster fella that's coming in.

Theres a feicin surprise

Munster getting a new Kiwi coach =

Ulster getting a new kiwi coach =

I don't think it's the fact that a Kiwi coach is a good thing or a bad thing. They were just saying that the chap going to Munster has a more impressive CV.

I am actually really happy with the appointment of Penny. He may be predominantly a forwards coach but he may bring a little bit of SH nous that will work well with the 'Munster style'.

Feckless had my touchy Ulster fan head on last night....