What's the expectations for Welsh rugby next season ?

O.k so here we are, after quite a successful season for the international side we can look at the Summer tour with some optimism, the regions have all but let us down a little and are losing players like there is no tomorrow. So, what can we expect to see next season ? For one, I would like to see at least two regions to qualify for the knockout stages of the HC and I would like to see at least two regions qualify for the Rabbo play-offs. As for Wales, well I would like us to keep our upward curve that we seem to be on, and I would like to see three out of four wins in the Autumn, and no lower than second in the six nations. The Cardiff Blues will be interesting to watch back at the capital next season and both the Ospreys and the Scarlets youngsters have had this season under their belt so they will now what to expect next time around,the Dragons I am afraid will be much of a muchness and need something biblical to get them going in the right direction. I guess most of this depends on what the WRU are planning to do but I would not be happy unless we get anymore than what I have alluded to above.

I think the expectations of the regions next season will be a heap of bitching and moaning and going over the same old arguements time and time again.

Being serious I think that we will pretty much see another season like this one. I think one team, maybe two will progress from their HEC group, and possibly one drop down to the Amlin. And the Dragons may sneak out of hteir Amlin group. And in the Rabo I think there will be two/three teams in the play off hunt, ending up with only one making it through.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I think the expectations of the regions next season will be a heap of bitching and moaning and going over the same old arguements time and time again.

Being serious I think that we will pretty much see another season like this one. I think one team, maybe two will progress from their HEC group, and possibly one drop down to the Amlin. And the Dragons may sneak out of hteir Amlin group. And in the Rabo I think there will be two/three teams in the play off hunt, ending up with only one making it through.

What about the national side ?

I aint man enough to say 4-5th in 6Ns and us all grumpy again.

I wouldn't say the regions have let us down.

O's are in the play off semi finals.

Blues made it to the HEC QF (admittedly they have had a poor 2nd half of the season)

Scarlets progressed further in the LV and finished high enough in their group in the HEC to drop down to the Amlin which they didn't manage last season, and again finished 5th in the leage.

Dragons, well I guess they really haven't had that good a season

Fixture lists and injuries have put a lot of pressure on the regions, but I don't think the season has been as dreadful as the media are making out, although obviously there is big room for improvement.

For next season, form a Scarlets pov, it all depends on how we recruit in the forwards. We have lost 6 and possibly 8 forwards already and have brought no one new in so far. I can't really comment on what to expect from them next season until I see how recruitment goes.

For the Regions I would expect two to be finsih second or better in the group with one of them dropping down to the Amlin, that team should make an Amlin semi.

Dargons need to win all their home games in the Amlin and should be looking for at least a second.

In the Rabo I expect the playoffs to be tight but minium is one in and one within 3 pts

Wales I think will be one of four teams that will be much of a muchness and so will be 1-4 in 6N.
They do need at least one win over SH teams to be making progress

I think you're being very ambitious with your hopes for the regions.With the mass exodus of players I can see a few years of rebuilding before that kind o success will be possible.

I don't think Wales will win the series in Oz but a win and two close defeats would be a decent return as Wales need to start beating the SH teams before they can be classed as anything more than a pretty good team.I think 3 from 4 for the AI's is very ambitious but the expectations there will change depending on how you get on in the summer.I hope to see you improving and challenging the best the SH has to offer.

Brendan wrote:For the Regions I would expect two to be finsih second or better in the group with one of them dropping down to the Amlin, that team should make an Amlin semi.

Dargons need to win all their home games in the Amlin and should be looking for at least a second.

In the Rabo I expect the playoffs to be tight but minium is one in and one within 3 pts

Wales I think will be one of four teams that will be much of a muchness and so will be 1-4 in 6N.
They do need at least one win over SH teams to be making progress

As a Dragons fan I don't see how the expectation can be for us to do better. Obviously we'd like to do better, but we're losing our best players and have not heard a peep about any signficant new signings. There are some very good teams in the Amlin. If we can only finish a few from the bottom in the Pro12 this year, coupled with having less quality players next year, then realistically we shoudln't be expecting to be better. That's my logic anyway. I predict an even worse year for the Dragons. Our best player this year has been Rob Sidoli for gawds sake! He can't go on much longer!

Asore - I think Os will be ok and Blues should be ok in their HC group as top seeds.

It all comes down to confidence as the Welsh regions and Irish national teams have shown if you start poor you're in trouble

On the summer I think that Aus are use to being up against teams that run over them. Will be interested to see how wales do with a team that gets around physical teams

At times against England they looked one dimensional and as=lso against Italy and didn't seem to have a plan B

Griff wrote:

Brendan wrote:For the Regions I would expect two to be finsih second or better in the group with one of them dropping down to the Amlin, that team should make an Amlin semi.

Dargons need to win all their home games in the Amlin and should be looking for at least a second.

In the Rabo I expect the playoffs to be tight but minium is one in and one within 3 pts

Wales I think will be one of four teams that will be much of a muchness and so will be 1-4 in 6N.
They do need at least one win over SH teams to be making progress

As a Dragons fan I don't see how the expectation can be for us to do better. Obviously we'd like to do better, but we're losing our best players and have not heard a peep about any signficant new signings. There are some very good teams in the Amlin. If we can only finish a few from the bottom in the Pro12 this year, coupled with having less quality players next year, then realistically we shoudln't be expecting to be better. That's my logic anyway. I predict an even worse year for the Dragons. Our best player this year has been Rob Sidoli for gawds sake! He can't go on much longer!

Giff to be fair to the dragons they got the hardest group possible. Next year they will have an easier group. Any idea of pool seed guessing 2nd again

Griff,

I think its going to be another long hard (if not harder) season for us. We have lost Charteris, Brew and Tovey and won't recruit players of their standard to replace them so will have to hope our youngsters do us proud again.

We HAVE to sort our front row out or we won't go anywhere and have win at how and try and turn our abysmal away record around

Brendan wrote:Asore - I think Os will be ok and Blues should be ok in their HC group as top seeds.

It all comes down to confidence as the Welsh regions and Irish national teams have shown if you start poor you're in trouble

On the summer I think that Aus are use to being up against teams that run over them. Will be interested to see how wales do with a team that gets around physical teams

At times against England they looked one dimensional and as=lso against Italy and didn't seem to have a plan B

Yeah I think the O's will be okay,not sure about the Blues I think they have a lot of improving to do but in truth you have to wait until the draw for the groups is done as that makes a huge difference to expectations.
Wales have been well beaten by Oz the last 2 times they played but a third place play off and a tagged on autumn international that was really just a Shane Williams farewell are not the same as a full on Test series so this will be a true test of where Wales are.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Yeah I think the O's will be okay,not sure about the Blues I think they have a lot of improving to do but in truth you have to wait until the draw for the groups is done as that makes a huge difference to expectations.
Wales have been well beaten by Oz the last 2 times they played but a third place play off and a tagged on autumn international that was really just a Shane Williams farewell are not the same as a full on Test series so this will be a true test of where Wales are.

I think the problem wales have against Oz and don't see it changing is Oz don't give them the ball. As England showed in parts of their match with wales when wales don't have the ball they can be happy to just tackle and maybe get a turnover.

with Pollock I think the Oz would lose few balls

Brendan.

Regarding the playoff in the last world cup Wales lost by just 3 points with Warburton missing, as you,ve said already Australia rely heavily on Pocock but with Warburton on the field then Pocok is not going to find things as easy at the breakdown. Also in the friendly last Dec it took a yellow card for Australia to score most of their points.
Home advantage will probably prove vital in the summer but its no forgone conclusion.

As for the regions next year I believe the O's will be the biggest success story for Wales and can see them achieving much more than many fans expect, yes they have lost some real quality players but have so much more talent coming through and finally have a coach that seems able to get the best out of the team. hope Im not eating my words in an hour though. I think possibly a home QF and the Rabo play off's as a minimum.
I believe the Scarlets will continue with another slight improvement on this season and may actually make an away HK QF and sneak in to the play offs in the Rabo, depending on the quality of the front 5 bought in they could even win the LV= cup as there still seems to be some really talented young players coming through.
The Blues IMHO will be rebuilding both their squad and their fan base at the CAP but will become very tough to beat at home which will be an improvement on this season.
The Dragons started this year quite well but fell off the pace very early on, although they finally got some players called up to the national side and with all the calls for this from their fans over the years I believe this will have given their loyal following some comfort, once again next season though they will be faced with raiding the feeder clubs for players due to the quality that has left. The worry here is with the exception of Keys none of their feeder clubs has had the best of seasons, I cant realistically see them having any better a year than the last.
Either way roll on September and the start of a new season.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I think the expectations of the regions next season will be a heap of bitching and moaning and going over the same old arguements time and time again.

Being serious I think that we will pretty much see another season like this one. I think one team, maybe two will progress from their HEC group, and possibly one drop down to the Amlin. And the Dragons may sneak out of hteir Amlin group. And in the Rabo I think there will be two/three teams in the play off hunt, ending up with only one making it through.

What about the national side ?

Depends.
The WRU need to dig deeper and also distribute monies a bit differently, which I reckon they will do.

LordDowlais wrote:O.k so here we are, after quite a successful season for the international side we can look at the Summer tour with some optimism, the regions have all but let us down a little and are loosing players like there is no tomorrow. So, what can we expect to see next season ? For one, I would like to see at least two regions to qualify for the knockout stages of the HC and I would like to see at least two regions qualify for the Rabbo play-offs. As for Wales, well I would like us to keep our upward curve that we seem to be on, and I would like to see three out of four wins in the Autumn, and no lower than second in the six nations. The Cardiff Blues will be interesting to watch back at the capital next season and both the Ospreys and the Scarlets youngsters have had this season under their belt so they will now what to expect next time around,the Dragons I am afraid will be much of a muchness and need something biblical to get them going in the right direction. I guess most of this depends on what the WRU are planning to do but I would not be happy unless we get anymore than what I have alluded to above.

1. You can't have both, the success of Team Wales is subsidised by the region's sacrificing their own HC success on the altar of the national team; and 2. winning the HC is harder than winning the 6N, and the evidence so far is that our own players aren't good enough to make the step up.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I think the expectations of the regions next season will be a heap of bitching and moaning and going over the same old arguements time and time again.

Being serious I think that we will pretty much see another season like this one. I think one team, maybe two will progress from their HEC group, and possibly one drop down to the Amlin. And the Dragons may sneak out of hteir Amlin group. And in the Rabo I think there will be two/three teams in the play off hunt, ending up with only one making it through.

What about the national side ?

Depends.
The WRU need to dig deeper and also distribute monies a bit differently, which I reckon they will do.

I think the quality of the Premiership has improved dramatically over the last three seasons, we can see that with how competitive they are against their B&I rivals.

That impacts the regions, more talent coming through for them for the future. Exciting times I think Welsh regions will be impressive in Europe next year.

Many posters may have had avery good point that the Welsh regions suffered when the WRU hosted Australia in December, prior to that match the REgions were all doing well in their groups in the HEC. Scarlets, Blues and Ospreys both topping their groups.

To fail, think about every time in the last decade when ever wales won the grand slam , the year was to put it nicely, one to forget!

Big Mac Michael wrote:To fail, think about every time in the last decade when ever wales won the grand slam , the year was to put it nicely, one to forget!

Less depth in the player base then though... Now Wales can replace injured players with other good players. We won this GS using a great deal more players than the previous two.

Wales to come third in 6N. Ospreys in Rabbo top 4. Scarlets to blow hot and cold and not make the top 4 again. Blues come last and Dragons qualify for HC.

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:Wales to come third in 6N. Ospreys in Rabbo top 4. Scarlets to blow hot and cold and not make the top 4 again. Blues come last and Dragons qualify for HC.

I really disagree, I think the regions and Wales are Doing the right things to have enough talent and depth to improve their competitiveness. As are Ireland. France and England have issues that, in England anyway, are being addressed.

What are your thoughts on the more immediate games vs the SH?

[quote="maestegmafia"]

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:Wales to come third in 6N. Ospreys in Rabbo top 4. Scarlets to blow hot and cold and not make the top 4 again. Blues come last and Dragons qualify for HC.

I really disagree, I think the regions and Wales are Doing the right things to have enough talent and depth to improve their competitiveness. As are Ireland. France and England have issues that, in England anyway, are being addressed.

What are your thoughts on the more immediate games vs the SH?[/quote

Over the long term the academies seem to be doing wales proud. Lot's of good youngsters coming through. In the short term the regions are in a pretty poor state and all have lost a big chunk of players. Continuity-wise that will not help them. Wales I think will suffer for that.

This summer? I can't see us beating OZ - but I think we'll give it a damn good go.

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:O.k so here we are, after quite a successful season for the international side we can look at the Summer tour with some optimism, the regions have all but let us down a little and are loosing players like there is no tomorrow. So, what can we expect to see next season ? For one, I would like to see at least two regions to qualify for the knockout stages of the HC and I would like to see at least two regions qualify for the Rabbo play-offs. As for Wales, well I would like us to keep our upward curve that we seem to be on, and I would like to see three out of four wins in the Autumn, and no lower than second in the six nations. The Cardiff Blues will be interesting to watch back at the capital next season and both the Ospreys and the Scarlets youngsters have had this season under their belt so they will now what to expect next time around,the Dragons I am afraid will be much of a muchness and need something biblical to get them going in the right direction. I guess most of this depends on what the WRU are planning to do but I would not be happy unless we get anymore than what I have alluded to above.

1. You can't have both, the success of Team Wales is subsidised by the region's sacrificing their own HC success on the altar of the national team; and 2. winning the HC is harder than winning the 6N, and the evidence so far is that our own players aren't good enough to make the step up.

Since when has it become, that international rugby was a step down from club/province/regional rugby ? For me, you have to step up to international rugby, and that is why Ireland struggle, as they have world class NIQ players to turn to, but do not have them when they cannot represent their country. So when we have enough good Welsh players, which it looks like we are aiming for, we will see the regions doing well in the HC and hopefully we can continue the upward curve the international side are currently showing.

Wales to win one test down south this summer, id also expect them to very close of a clean sweep in the Autumn go closing in winning the 6 nations next year with no grandslam. The regions more of the same sadly, Ospreys may get out of there group depending on the draw scarlets best of the rest. Blues and dragon to both finish below connaught

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:O.k so here we are, after quite a successful season for the international side we can look at the Summer tour with some optimism, the regions have all but let us down a little and are loosing players like there is no tomorrow. So, what can we expect to see next season ? For one, I would like to see at least two regions to qualify for the knockout stages of the HC and I would like to see at least two regions qualify for the Rabbo play-offs. As for Wales, well I would like us to keep our upward curve that we seem to be on, and I would like to see three out of four wins in the Autumn, and no lower than second in the six nations. The Cardiff Blues will be interesting to watch back at the capital next season and both the Ospreys and the Scarlets youngsters have had this season under their belt so they will now what to expect next time around,the Dragons I am afraid will be much of a muchness and need something biblical to get them going in the right direction. I guess most of this depends on what the WRU are planning to do but I would not be happy unless we get anymore than what I have alluded to above.

1. You can't have both, the success of Team Wales is subsidised by the region's sacrificing their own HC success on the altar of the national team; and 2. winning the HC is harder than winning the 6N, and the evidence so far is that our own players aren't good enough to make the step up.

Since when has it become, that international rugby was a step down from club/province/regional rugby ? For me, you have to step up to international rugby, and that is why Ireland struggle, as they have world class NIQ players to turn to, but do not have them when they cannot represent their country. So when we have enough good Welsh players, which it looks like we are aiming for, we will see the regions doing well in the HC and hopefully we can continue the upward curve the international side are currently showing.

Since Rugby became professional, as you point out wmentioning leinster non-irish qualified you have the best of the european players topped up with southern stars

Expectations for next season???

Ospreys to do okay in the celtic league - the others to trundle along near the foot of the table.

Complete irrelevance in the HC.

At least one region to go bankrupt.

Bickering and petty squabbling.

Lots of calls for a playmaker in midfield with soft hands and plenty of dog.

Another Grand Slam.

Ospreys to finish in the top 3. People make a fuss over the players leaving, Huw Bennett is second choice hooker, and Scott Baldwin will step up. Paul James is leaving but we have Ryan Bevington and Duncan Jones still. Tommy Bowe, Shane Williams and Niki Walker are all leaving but they have hardly featured this season and we have done fine without them. Sonny Parker is another who has barely featured and only plays LC Cup games. We won't notice any of these guys leaving.

Scarlets, despite all their fans chest thumping to be worse than they are at the moment. Their pack will have much less quality than this season, and it is very poor now. Decent back line but no forwards to get them the ball. They will not make the play offs.

Blues, Truth be told nearly all the players who are leaving are over the hill and have not been putting in the performances they have been over the past few seasons. Quite simply most of them are too hold now and need to be replaced. Gethin Jenkins is leaving and losing him would be a blow to any team but Sam Hobbs and Scott Andrews do need games together so they have someone who can step up. They do need to sign a decent center though. A lot of the older players leaving will create spaces for a shed load of young quality players who need games. Macauley Cook, Josh Navidi, etc will all step up next season and do better than the old men have done this season.
They will sort themselves out quickly and be pushing hard for the play offs, I think they will finish 4th or 5th.

Dragons, they will probably finish somewhere between 10th to 12th, I expect a very poor season from them, they had a few good players and a lot of rubbish. They have far fewer good players now, and will probably sign more rubbish again.

I think Wales will have a poor 6 Nations, no Gatland who will be away for the 6 Nations, and we'll probably have a bit of bad luck with injuries too. We will probably beat Scotland, Italy and I expect us to beat Ireland also, because in my opinion they are on a major slide.

Alyn - big words, when we don't even know what players the Scarlets are going to bring in to replace those forwards that have left!

Hey Alyn you couldn't pick me out next weeks lotto numbers there while you're on a roll sir? .....

rugbydreamer wrote:Alyn - big words, when we don't even know what players the Scarlets are going to bring in to replace those forwards that have left!

Well considering all the Scarlets rumours center around a few Ospreys cast offs I am not worried by what the Scarlets might do, the only players I have concern that you might get is Haydn Pugh from Carmarthen Quins. He looks a great lock in the making.

You badly need a good tight head prop though and I can't see any on the market can you?

Most rumours are just that, generally started by journalists with nothing to report or speculative agents.
The club have clearly stated they are looking abroad to strengthen the front 5 and are looking to bring in 5 players, with adequate cover at LH and the best choice of Hookers in the Rabo I see no problem with what ND is doing and he doesn't have to bad a record with the players he has bought in so far, I expect the Scarlets to start slowly while the new players whoever they are get used to playing together but trust ND to get it right.
I assume the comments from Alyn come from an O's supporting WUM.

AlynDavies wrote:Ospreys to finish in the top 3. People make a fuss over the players leaving, Huw Bennett is second choice hooker, and Scott Baldwin will step up. Paul James is leaving but we have Ryan Bevington and Duncan Jones still. Tommy Bowe, Shane Williams and Niki Walker are all leaving but they have hardly featured this season and we have done fine without them. Sonny Parker is another who has barely featured and only plays LC Cup games. We won't notice any of these guys leaving.

Scarlets, despite all their fans chest thumping to be worse than they are at the moment. Their pack will have much less quality than this season, and it is very poor now. Decent back line but no forwards to get them the ball. They will not make the play offs.

Blues, Truth be told nearly all the players who are leaving are over the hill and have not been putting in the performances they have been over the past few seasons. Quite simply most of them are too hold now and need to be replaced. Gethin Jenkins is leaving and losing him would be a blow to any team but Sam Hobbs and Scott Andrews do need games together so they have someone who can step up. They do need to sign a decent center though. A lot of the older players leaving will create spaces for a shed load of young quality players who need games. Macauley Cook, Josh Navidi, etc will all step up next season and do better than the old men have done this season.
They will sort themselves out quickly and be pushing hard for the play offs, I think they will finish 4th or 5th.

Dragons, they will probably finish somewhere between 10th to 12th, I expect a very poor season from them, they had a few good players and a lot of rubbish. They have far fewer good players now, and will probably sign more rubbish again.

I think Wales will have a poor 6 Nations, no Gatland who will be away for the 6 Nations, and we'll probably have a bit of bad luck with injuries too. We will probably beat Scotland, Italy and I expect us to beat Ireland also, because in my opinion they are on a major slide.

Very grim predictions their Alyn...!

AlynDavies wrote:Dragons, they will probably finish somewhere between 10th to 12th, I expect a very poor season from them, they had a few good players and a lot of rubbish. They have far fewer good players now, and will probably sign more rubbish again.

Just the annual tuning of the One True Region at Dave to look forward to then. Surely things can't get so bad we lose to that lot at home?

Stone Motif wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Dragons, they will probably finish somewhere between 10th to 12th, I expect a very poor season from them, they had a few good players and a lot of rubbish. They have far fewer good players now, and will probably sign more rubbish again.

Just the annual tuning of the One True Region at Dave to look forward to then. Surely things can't get so bad we lose to that lot at home?

Only a post saved you last time, and we did beat you 2 games in 3 this season.

Makes a change

Blues
Well, as a Blues supporter - im actually quite optimistic (although I always am of course)

The only loss of any significance is Gethin and Laulaula, the other all have decent replacement to step in. More importantly, without the WC, we will hopefully see more of Warburton, Bradley, L.Williams, Roberts and 1/2p.

We couldn't be any worse with injuries next season as we were this season - Pretorious back to his best at 8 could make a huge difference to the pack, especially with Paterson at 6 an Warbs/Navidi at 7.

Hopefully a new THP is on the way from France - so perhaps the scrum might even be stable-ish next season.

A new 13 is required though, I think losing Laulaula will be worth about 5 - 10 points in the league over the season.

I am also reassured that the team wont be being run by Gareth "cant coach for toffee" Baber. Phil Davies certainly seems to have the right attitude to how rugby should be played and perhaps will put the Blues back to their fast passed style of play which got them so close to a HC final.

If we get a decent draw in the HC (as top seeds it shouldn't be too bad - although Toulon, Leicester etc are always possibilities) then I think we should qualify (hopefully top of the group! - stupid Edinburgh )

In the pro12 we will probably do the same old thing of acting like we are going to make the playoffs then deciding we are going to lose a few games. Might finish above the Scarlets though, that should be the aim at least.

Ospreys
Ospreys will be strong next year - they still have A.Jones, Bevington, Hibbard, AWJ, Ian Evans, R.Jones and Tipuric up-front. They could struggle during internationals though, especially with their awful backrow after Tips and Ryan are away.

Still they manage to do well in the day to day slog of the league and should really be aiming for a home playoff, think they might slip to 3rd though.

Scarlets
Scarlets need a couple of big locks. If they can keep a backline fit, then they should do pretty well in the HC (they had a horrible group this year) - If they are on form then they could get into the 1/4s, probably in 2nd place.

International call-ups will damage their pro12 campaign - and they won't have Stephen Jones to call on. I predict 5/6th place.

Dragons
God knows what the Dragons will be able to do. They will miss Brew, Charteris and Tovey. I will depend on whether they can find some young talent, and what Darren Edwards can do with it.

Wales

2nd in the 6Ns

Because im a pessimist

Well, I hope they will do well in Aus and win at least one game - then bring their form into the AI and take another couple of scalps (brilliant chance to finally beat the All Blacks aswell) - Then they could go into the 6Ns with some real confidence and home games against England and Ireland - and away to a poor French team. Who knows...

But a year is a long time and no doubt form and injuries will cripple the squad and they will finish in 4th place with Bishop playing 13 and Brew on the wing.