England - The Last National Pride

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIQX2u-y_qQ

This for me nearly 16 years on sends shivers down my spine. For me it was the last time I could remember national pride in an England match. For the fans watching in attendance and for the fans watching around the country, you felt immersed with 'psycho' felt his pride when he buried the demon of 1990. The wave of pride and euphoria that followed that team was like nothing I have seen since the Ashes in 2005.

I also remember the tears of Gazza. Even in defeat you didn't want to be anything else but an England fan for the summer of 1990. Pride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u96T3rnHRM&feature=fvst

Makes you wonder when players stopped caring about playing for their country. Yes we had David Beckham v Greece in 2001, but for me as a team how they got themselves in such a bad position in that game is beyond me. What made Gazza's tears such a defining moment was because England were given no hope in 1990 and yet through pride alone made the semi-finals.

I really hope that Hodgson and the England squad are shown such videos.

They need a big kick up the backside and I am hoping such memories serve as a motivation for the players to create their own history defining moments.

C'mon England!

I really hope that Hodgson and the England squad are shown such videos.

They need a big kick up the backside and I am hoping such memories serve as a motivation for the players to create their own history defining moments.

Or could it just, just be, that the players in the squad are quite simply not that good compared to foreign counterparts? Showing them a video is hardly going to make them play miles better than their usual level, infact, showing them a video will be forgotten about 20 minutes later.

It's not motivation that is stopping, it is killer passes from midfield, quick movement from midfield and attack, of course finally a manager that doesn't pick players based on how their team are in the league/europe. Lampard and Ferdinand for example, would be too tired from all the travelling and match time, to make a good example in another competition.

Too many players get picked because of how their team is doing, rather than how THEY have been playing.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

I really hope that Hodgson and the England squad are shown such videos.

They need a big kick up the backside and I am hoping such memories serve as a motivation for the players to create their own history defining moments.

Or could it just, just be, that the players in the squad are quite simply not that good compared to foreign counterparts? Showing them a video is hardly going to make them play miles better than their usual level, infact, showing them a video will be forgotten about 20 minutes later.

It's not motivation that is stopping, it is killer passes from midfield, quick movement from midfield and attack, of course finally a manager that doesn't pick players based on how their team are in the league/europe. Lampard and Ferdinand for example, would be too tired from all the travelling and match time, to make a good example in another competition.

Too many players get picked because of how their team is doing, rather than how THEY have been playing.

Take the midfield of 1990 that was Gascoigne, McMahon, Platt, Waddle or the midfield of 1996 that was Mcmanaman, Ince, Gascoigne, Anderton. Was that better than say Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes in terms of passing? Not a chance. Yet those teams achieved more in terms of progession in major tournaments.

A bit of pride and heart can go a long way to playing about an extra 20%

I've watched Lampard and Gerrard alot and they have always been aided by playing with superior players. Lampard especially loses the ball more than most league 2 players when he's up against international opposition.

Gerrard similarly, only proves himself against weak opposition, has never been very good in control of the ball, good at passing yes, but not moving with it.

Scholes and Beckham were good players, but will often make bad tackles and threaten the team.

Its interesting whether we should copy the Spanish etc. They've only managed 1 WC after all, and that with some all time great ball players.

Should stick to what we know tbh.

You can't "copy" those players when England don't have the players of that quality/mentality.

Just stop picking the same names all the time who always perform timidly, give others chance and drop the ones that never worked.

Not rocket science.

In fairness JM had Wilshere stayed fit, I think he would've been a shoe in the starting 11 and the same with Parker. Still it is not so bad if you can fall back on Lampard and Barry even if their not to quality of the other 2.

It's such a shame that players like Milner and Johson have not had a look in at City. The midfield is a concern, I think it is too soon to start thinking about throwing the likes of Rodwell, Henderson and Cleverley in.

The forward line interests me the most with Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge. Grant Holt could be the ace in the hole.

Grant Holt has had a very good season I can't see why MOTD pundits are saying he's not international level. Just cause he plays for Norwich? Another pick would be Gary Hooper, yes he may not have the skill of Rooney but he is impressive at making off the ball runs and evading defenders, scored 5 yesterday.

Could be another Lineker/Sutton type of player.

True very true. Then Holt and Hooper 2 very different players.

I think you should start a poll

Grant Holt will just give away endless freekicks at international level. Whether intentionally or not the physical side of the game in the Premier League is distinctly lacking at the higher levels. The european referees wont allow it. Its why Peter Crouch is always blown up when the majority of the time he hasnt done anything

Sturridge and Welbeck seem to get the nod over Holt because they play for Chelsea and Man Utd.

Hooper needs to play in the PL first for me.

Crouch's record breaks down vs good international teams I thought?

The 1966 footage that gets constantly replayed and replayed and replayed during a tournament by English TV never does them any good so I doubt that video would do much difference. The fact is other teams are so much better. No shame in that but stop deluding yourself that England would win it if it wasnt for poor mentality etc. Your just not good enough

Who said anything about winning the tournament? It was simply stated by myself that a bit of pride when playing might help increase peformance levels.

I wish some would actually read before going OTT in their responses!

Does it strike anyone else as odd that England's best performances in recent times, came just before and shortly after the creation of the Premier League and the huge influx of foreign players that came with it?

Since 1996 we've not looked even remotely like winning a European or World Cup.

And what was the argument of all the PL's proponents?

Playing alongside, or training with "technically superior" foreign players will help our players improve. If the English players are good enough, they'll still get to play for Premier League clubs.

And where do we find ourselves today? A dearth of English talent in pretty much all departments. And can anyone in all seriousness say that the best players we have today are any better than those we were able to field 16 or even 22 years ago?

Excellent point there dyre.

I think Euro 2004 was our best chance. We were on a tear after that horrifying opening match, Rooney get's injured and it completely saps the confidence from the squad. I think they have picked holes in the team galore. Euro 2000 we just had the poorest squad I could remember. From 2002-2006 was when we had the best players I could re-call and yet there was always problems and it seemed to translate right through the squad. We don't have a left midfielder, we don't have a goalkeeper, we don't have a right back. The hole that were exposed prior to tournaments seemed to seaped right through the squad and that should have never been allowed and showed that despite Eriksson having a good record in getting England to major tournaments and into the QF's, he wasted a shed load talent that many might have achieved more with.

There was supposed to be a 6 + 5 homegrown rule where 6 of starting 11 would be native players, but was scrapped in 2010, so I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Why bother having any pride in playing for your country when a very large chunk of fans care far more about the clubs they support than their national team, something that you won't see ANYWHERE else

ReallyReal wrote:Why bother having any pride in playing for your country when a very large chunk of fans care far more about the clubs they support than their national team, something that you won't see ANYWHERE else

Just not true mate. It's very common for fans of big successful clubs not to have as much of an interest in international football as fans of smaller and less successful clubs. Barca fans are well known for having no interest in the Spanish national team.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

ReallyReal wrote:Why bother having any pride in playing for your country when a very large chunk of fans care far more about the clubs they support than their national team, something that you won't see ANYWHERE else

Just not true mate. It's very common for fans of big successful clubs not to have as much of an interest in international football as fans of smaller and less successful clubs. Barca fans are well known for having no interest in the Spanish national team.

I don't know why. They make up half of it.

Perhaps if players themselves showed enthusiasm and spirit for the national team, then the fans would too.

I'm not one of those people who grudge players their salaries. I think good on them the only people that moan are people who are skint. I do think the big salaries have played a part in international football not being as important to p[layers as it used to be.

If someone pays you £100k a week to do your job then once every 2 months you need to go and do it for someone else for free it's obvious who your loyalty would be with.

Club over country every single time and I agree with that.

FreekShow wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

ReallyReal wrote:Why bother having any pride in playing for your country when a very large chunk of fans care far more about the clubs they support than their national team, something that you won't see ANYWHERE else

Just not true mate. It's very common for fans of big successful clubs not to have as much of an interest in international football as fans of smaller and less successful clubs. Barca fans are well known for having no interest in the Spanish national team.

I don't know why. They make up half of it.

It probably has to do with them having more of a identification with Catalonia than Spain as a whole.

Crimey wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

ReallyReal wrote:Why bother having any pride in playing for your country when a very large chunk of fans care far more about the clubs they support than their national team, something that you won't see ANYWHERE else

Just not true mate. It's very common for fans of big successful clubs not to have as much of an interest in international football as fans of smaller and less successful clubs. Barca fans are well known for having no interest in the Spanish national team.

I don't know why. They make up half of it.

It probably has to do with them having more of a identification with Catalonia than Spain as a whole.

Of course but it costs a lot of money to follow a big club. Ticket prices are higher and there is more overseas trips which heavily drain the funds. I think fans of smaller and less successful clubs maybe have a bit more spare cash to support their country which a lot of fans at bigger clubs may not have due to the cost of following their club.

You know, when looking at those video's, there is a stark contrast to the pride shown back then when compared to now.

At the same time the Managers in 1990 and 1996 were Sir Bobby and El Tel, both managers that were famed for not only being good managers but for bringing unity and team spirit to squads.

England need a strong passionate personality to bring out the best in them. I honestly feel that Stuart Pearce has that and that he was the best choice.

I believe Stuart Pearce has never won a trophy as a player or manager.

That may be so Josiah but he is a person that brings out raw emotions in players. Hell of a motivator i think. He should go just to bring some of that pride back into the English players.

Crimey wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

ReallyReal wrote:Why bother having any pride in playing for your country when a very large chunk of fans care far more about the clubs they support than their national team, something that you won't see ANYWHERE else

Just not true mate. It's very common for fans of big successful clubs not to have as much of an interest in international football as fans of smaller and less successful clubs. Barca fans are well known for having no interest in the Spanish national team.

I don't know why. They make up half of it.

It probably has to do with them having more of a identification with Catalonia than Spain as a whole.

As the saying goes...Catalonia is not Spain

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I believe Stuart Pearce has never won a trophy as a player or manager.

Nottingham Forest
Football League Centenary Tournament (1): 1988
Littlewoods Challenge Cup (2): 1988–89, 1989–90
Full Members Cup (2): 1989, 1992

West Ham United
Intertoto Cup (1): 1999
Premier League Player of the Month (1): February 2001

Manchester City
Nationwide Division One Title (1): 2001–02

Thanks Union, my whole point being that Stuart Pierce is a motivator and i honestly believe that he would be a great man to get pride swelling in the English camp.

Agreed mate, he may not be as tactically astute as others but for pure "C'mon England!" factor he's way out in front.

Pearce has got the England Under 23 job for the Olympics so maybe he is using that as a way to get considered for the senior setup

I am Irish and even i get geed up watching him. That passion is what i feel England has been lacking.

True enough Steffan but i would have really liked to have seen him involved in some sort of capacity.

Littlewoods cup isn't that a catalogue?!

I'm with Eirebilly and Union Cane. The only thing I would say is that Pearce himself said he wasn't ready for the job and I suppose you have to respect his wishes.

Of course, he may have said that, knowing the scrutiny and criticism that comes with the job. As U21 coach he's been mostly out of the spotlight. I would love to see him take the job in the not too distant future, though.

That said, I think our single biggest problem is the attitude of our players. Someone commented that fans of big clubs tend to care more about their clubs than their country. I think many players feel that way too - regardless of what they say in front of the cameras. Actually watching those same players in an England shirt, you can't help but get a very different impression.

Until we can somehow change the culture and make playing for England an honour again, rather than a chore, I don't think we'll see the same kind of passion we saw back at Italia 90 and Euro 96.

For me David Beckham was one of a handful of exceptions - he always put 100% effort into his games, even if form wasn't always that great.

At the other end of the scale we have Wayne Rooney, who for me is the perfect example of why we are so average. A sulky little troll who makes catty comments to the cameras about getting booed, after a shocking performance. I reckon the lads who played in '90 and '96 would have been embarrassed if they put in that kind of display and would have fully expected the criticism.

I'm with Eirebilly and Union Cane. The only thing I would say is that Pearce himself said he wasn't ready for the job and I suppose you have to respect his wishes.

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Isn't ready? He's 50 years old!

Stella wrote:I'm with Eirebilly and Union Cane. The only thing I would say is that Pearce himself said he wasn't ready for the job and I suppose you have to respect his wishes.

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Isn't ready? He's 50 years old!

In fairness the Man City job was too big of step for him and maybe he feels he is still gaining experience with the under-21's. Maybe he feels comfortable at that level than actually managing a group of big personalities.

Just re-read the OP and remembered the other missing ingredient...a quality anthem for the tournament.

For Italia '90 we had the classic World In Motion by New Order. For Euro 96 we had the epic Three Lions by Skinner, Baddiel & The Lightning Seeds.

The songs since then haven't been anywhere near as good...thats got to be a factor too, surely?

dyrewolfe wrote:Just re-read the OP and remembered the other missing ingredient...a quality anthem for the tournament.

For Italia '90 we had the classic World In Motion by New Order. For Euro 96 we had the epic Three Lions by Skinner, Baddiel & The Lightning Seeds.

The songs since then haven't been anywhere near as good...thats got to be a factor too, surely?

Remember the Embrace one?

Thankfully not Stella.

1990 and 1996 are the only two times i have ever cried over football.

england make me cry again- go out fighting at the worst

Steffan wrote:The 1966 footage that gets constantly replayed and replayed and replayed during a tournament by English TV never does them any good so I doubt that video would do much difference. The fact is other teams are so much better. No shame in that but stop deluding yourself that England would win it if it wasnt for poor mentality etc. Your just not good enough

Yet GErmany, with a Bunderliga that isn't as good and players who are far less high profile can belt 4 past England.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Gerrard similarly, only proves himself against weak opposition, has never been very good in control of the ball, good at passing yes, but not moving with it.

I was just reading through when this bombshell jumped out at me.

Gerrard only proves himself against 'weak' opposition.

This is crazy. Look at his motm performances in the CL semi finals against chelsea, look at his motm performances in the FA cup final, Uefa cup final and least of all against that 'weak' AC Milan team in 2005. Gerrard's greatest games haven't come against bolton at home. Do you even know who Gerrard is?

Secondly 'he has never been very good in control of the ball'. Honestly, Andy Carroll, yeah, Momo Sissoko, ok, not the best ball control, but seriously, one of the best midfielders of the last ten years, in the top ten 'world player of the year' lists between 2004-2009. yeah he's not very good in control of the ball'