Ulster squad additions

First topic message reminder :

You did not imagine that - it was said. A few weeks ago too.

My understanding is whilst Kidney is a man of few words there is absolutely no doubt who is in charge.

Regarding the Ulster appointment the most important thing was to get someone in who was prepared to do it the Ulster way.

Understandably we offered it to the biggest name interviwed. However if, as I believe, he wanted to do things in a non Ulster way he was not appointed/turned it down.

Doing things the way we want is more important than the name - this fits in perfectly with the view that no one is too big for the club.

Actually Geoff you can maybe back me up on this. I have a hazy memory of Logan saying at the supporters club AGM last season (I think) that they wanted to develop Ulster coaches and not appoint 'gurus'. Have I remembered that right?

I don't want to nitpick the coaching appointment too far and look at everything they did and everything they said because they could find inconsistencies at anything, even when made with the very best of intentions. As I have already said, I shudder to think where we would be without Shane Logan as CEO. He is the best thing to have happened to Ulster rugby in the past decade. Even if Anscombe doesn't work out that will not change that fact.

It's on YouTube. Type 'uvdsl' and it should come up. I cant see any reference to anything other than technically strong

Good man Stand! I'll have a look later and see if I can find it. My memory plays tricks on me! I might just be remembering what I want to remember, so if I have misinterpreted it then I'm a WUM. It's a sad day in any man's life when you have to say that

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I'm a WUM. It's a sad day in any man's life when you have to say that

Join the club.... .....

- its just nerves lads stay calm.

Only 3 more sleeps to go !

2 more shifts I am thinking about. Then a full day off to get nervous

I think I was more excited at this stage for the semi, but I think thats because I was going. I would say come Friday night I'll be groin grabbingly excited and nerves for the final. I thin being underdogs will really help us. Being favourites in the semi-final hindered the side I thought. I honestly can't wait!

Guys!

My nerves are going to be totally wrecked!!!!

I've got 2 days of worrying if the wee fella's hamstring is going to settle in time for him to compete on Saturday, all day praying he doesn't false start/hit a hurdle/no jump/hear a nasty twang as we discover his hammy was worse than we hoped.

Then I'll probably have to watch the game in time warp while desperately trying to avoid any helpful friends giving me up-dates!

I'll be in a state of nervous exhaustion come 8.30pm when I see the final score!!!

I may need a wee lie down!

I have to say I wasn't going to go to this...had only ever planned to go to the QF and SF... but I am so excited about this, much more so than the QF or SF ...... get butterflys in my stomach even thinking about it....

I can't believe there was a time I was complaining about not being able to go to Thomand Park and since then I've been to the Aviva and now going to Twickers! Totally buzzin!

rodders wrote:I'll be 100% behind Anscombe next season but I am convinced Humphreys has made a huge mistake but it seems some people will back Humphreys to the hilt no matter what he does.

As you are aware Rodders I criticised Humphreys regarding the risk of promoting Jackson to be first choice 10 for next season. However I back his decision to recruit a new coach. Each decision can be criticised on its own merits without blind support for any particular personality.

AFAIK McLaughlin's tenure is a year longer than was initially envisaged as it was hoped that Davidson would step up to take over. Ulster's strategic recruitment has unquestionably made the team stronger than it was. However it's not just comparing teams with Muller, Best, Ferris, Pienaar and Terblanche to those without, but comparing performances, motivation, direction etc. with the opposition.

I don't know if you had the misfortune to witness the Treviso game in Belfast but that convinced me McLaughlin was a tad out of his depth. The tactics weren't working but there was no thought of change from the touchline. There were enough experienced players on the pitch but they just looked clueless against a fairly one-dimensional side. The crowning glory was the farce when Nigel Brady came on at loosehead - seriously!

McLaughlin reminds me of both Mark McCall and Brian Ashton - technically superb but lacking in leadership to keep some big egos in check. Utilising his technical strengths with the Academy is the perfect place for him and Ulster. Nobody knows whether Anscombe will be any better or worse, but he can be judged on his own merits when he's been here for a couple of years.

The Great Aukster wrote:
I don't know if you had the misfortune to witness the Treviso game in Belfast but that convinced me McLaughlin was a tad out of his depth. The tactics weren't working but there was no thought of change from the touchline. There were enough experienced players on the pitch but they just looked clueless against a fairly one-dimensional side. The crowning glory was the farce when Nigel Brady came on at loosehead - seriously!

I know Macklin was stripped off ready to go on and then the word came to put Nigel Brady on. Macklin looked round totally bemused. Great thing to tell the lad - we have more confidence in a hooker at LH than you

Thats was so bad it was embarressing. The worst tactical substitution I have seen since I first watch rugby live and that is 46 years ago . It was after that game the players lost all confidence. Muller was the one who returned and licked things back into shape.

Aukster I'm well aware off the Treviso game and the Brady farce but I'd rather judge McLaughlin on his whole tenure rather than on isolated incidents. McLaughlin was clearly learning in the job and was in my opinion improving as a coach just as we are improving as a team.

Anyways I don't want to go over this again. I caused enought trouble this morning....

Trouble is that incident happened in his 3rd year, not his 1st, and was one of a string of rudderless performance

rodders wrote:Aukster I'm well aware off the Treviso game and the Brady farce but I'd rather judge McLaughlin on his whole tenure rather than on isolated incidents. McLaughlin was clearly learning in the job and was in my opinion improving as a coach just as we are improving as a team.

Anyways I don't want to go over this again. I caused enought trouble this morning....

Trouble - must've missed that

Regarding learning on the job - I agree, every coach does, but I actually felt McLaughlin became much better after it was announced that he was going. From what I'd heard he was a lot more frank with some players and far less conservative in his tactics and substitutions. If he'd approached the game with that freedom a year earlier maybe things could have been different?

The Great Aukster wrote:
Regarding learning on the job - I agree, every coach does, but I actually felt McLaughlin became much better after it was announced that he was going. From what I'd heard he was a lot more frank with some players and far less conservative in his tactics and substitutions. If he'd approached the game with that freedom a year earlier maybe things could have been different?

I actually noticed that. Thought maybe it was just me. Maybe that suggests there were external pressures there that dictated the selection and tactics, pressures that he was liberated from when he was given the elbow?

Anyways thats just speculation and irrelevent now .

Wednesday, not yet teatime, and the nerves are already frayed...

http://johncondy.com//suftum.html

This is worth a read

http://www.uafc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14679

geoff998rugby wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:
I don't know if you had the misfortune to witness the Treviso game in Belfast but that convinced me McLaughlin was a tad out of his depth. The tactics weren't working but there was no thought of change from the touchline. There were enough experienced players on the pitch but they just looked clueless against a fairly one-dimensional side. The crowning glory was the farce when Nigel Brady came on at loosehead - seriously!

I know Macklin was stripped off ready to go on and then the word came to put Nigel Brady on. Macklin looked round totally bemused. Great thing to tell the lad - we have more confidence in a hooker at LH than you

Thats was so bad it was embarressing. The worst tactical substitution I have seen since I first watch rugby live and that is 46 years ago . It was after that game the players lost all confidence. Muller was the one who returned and licked things back into shape.

Like I said before Geoff. If this is so true like you say. Then no matter what our success next year, all praise should go to Muller as the common denominator and none to Anscombe.
It will not be until after Muller leaves that we will know if Anscombe is a good coach. If we go by what you claim about this seasons success.

The dynamics will be very different next year.

Muller will, probably, be very much the assistant next year rather than a leading light. If managed right we could get the best of both worlds - a more forceful coach and Muller's undoubted expertise.

I dont see how anyone can claim we were anything but a shambles until he returned this year. Not having players wont wash with me as all teams were in the same boat

Brilliant Geoff that makes me well up with pride... probably deserves to be reposted here in its entirety to burst a few myths that some still believe about Ulster rugby.

Oh and Apologies to the Ulster regs for being an argumentitive bollox (more than usual )yesterday.......

SUFTUM!

geoff998rugby wrote:The dynamics will be very different next year.

Muller will, probably, be very much the assistant next year rather than a leading light. If managed right we could get the best of both worlds - a more forceful coach and Muller's undoubted expertise.

I dont see how anyone can claim we were anything but a shambles until he returned this year. Not having players wont wash with me as all teams were in the same boat

Geoff, you arent responding to me. If we are to believe that Muller played so much a role as you say in getting us to where we are. How then can we give credit to ANscombe next year when Muller continues to be present, and will not be away for a WC. How will we know Anscombe was an improvement on BML. I just think you are over-egging the pudding with Muller, and underplaying any role BML has had.


Also, re that article. What exactly is the craic with the antrim footballer supporting Munster??????

We wont know, although I might get a whisper , the dynamics of the Anscombe/Muller relationship, but Humphreys/Logan will and thats the key.

They believe Anscombe can stand on his own without Muller they dont believe the same of McLaughlin - that is their judgement call.

To be clear success has come this year because we have a set up that works - clearly the McLaughlin, Muller, Terblanche triangle works - backed up by Doak and Bell. Sometimes the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts that appears to be the case here.

I suspect Muller is more affective with McLaughlin there
in the same way McLaughlin is more effective with Muller there

I am not claiming one is more important than the other - clearly it is a relationship that works and works well

I will weep the day the big man leaves these shores. My favourite ulster player.

Rodders I wouldn't change you for a second

Clive
My boss is a Derry man(county not city) and he follows munster too. Mate of mine is also a Leinsterfan. It winds them up no end when I tell them that no matter who they support they will always be Ulstermen

The discussion between Humphreys/Logan and the IRFU next year about the retention of Muller could be very interesting

Things could get heated

Standulstermen wrote:I will weep the day the big man leaves these shores. My favourite ulster player.

Rodders I wouldn't change you for a second

Clive
My boss is a Derry man(county not city) and he follows munster too. Mate of mine is also a Leinsterfan. It winds them up no end when I tell them that no matter who they support they will always be Ulstermen

I dont get it. Whats the thinking? What was yer mans comment about Ulster Rugby not being a province but a professional club? Is this bigotry, or whats the deal? I just don't understand.

Here I am trying to convince my friend why he shouldn't wear his NI top to the final (To be fair he's only winding me up... I hope), yet GAA types who should understand the idea of provinces more than anyone seem to not have a strong allegiance??

Surely we are allowed to offer him another year. Given he signed a one year extension he would probably be happy to do so again.

I would be seriously raging if the IRFU hamstring us regarding keeping muller.

Clive

I don't get it myself but I think the province/club comment may have been more angled towards the Belfast-centric nature of ulster rugby. He probably isn't aware of what ulster are doing in and around the 9 counties.

Some comments do not sit well with me at all in that article, especially from that Antrim man:

"Realistically, Ulster Rugby is not a provincial team but the local professional club team.

I don’t have an Ulster shirt, I have an allegiance to Munster, but I don’t personally see a problem with anybody going to watch Ulster.

When it’s two Irish provinces playing, maybe there will be some people up here going for Leinster, but if it was, say, Ulster v Clermont or Leicester, everyone would support Ulster."

Oh he doesn't have a problem with people from Ulster going to watch Ulster Rugby, how very kind of him.

Eejit.

Stand 2013-14 is the first year of the new system.

As written he would be a retained player and in a position where we had previously had a NIE player. He would be disqualified on both counts.

However as we know the Provinces got together to insist on amendments.
I think a compromise is on the way.

Dropping the total number of players to 4 each, no NIE in designated positions (3 and 10) and as a counter balance allowing the Provinces to retain a couple of designated players appears to be being muted. If so I understand Ulster would designate Pienaer and Muller.

Hopefully all will become clear soon

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Some comments do not sit well with me at all in that article, especially from that Antrim man:

"Realistically, Ulster Rugby is not a provincial team but the local professional club team.

I don’t have an Ulster shirt, I have an allegiance to Munster, but I don’t personally see a problem with anybody going to watch Ulster.

When it’s two Irish provinces playing, maybe there will be some people up here going for Leinster, but if it was, say, Ulster v Clermont or Leicester, everyone would support Ulster."

Oh he doesn't have a problem with people from Ulster going to watch Ulster Rugby, how very kind of him.

Eejit.

Yea Rory, a real sign of how far we've come in this country that we now able to be passive if people who live in ulster want to go and support ulster. NOT
Seriously, how was this added in as if it was a positive comment from the catholic community?

Look I've no problem if people dont support rugby, but to support our local rivals with little or no geographical link, makes my blood boil.

If you want to support Munster, get your arse away down there and eat turnip till your hearts content.

The problem I have with some things in that article, is that there seems to be very much an "us and them" attitude to it, despite most of the guys in the article being FROM Ulster. Isn't that exactly the kind of barriers Ulster are looking to break down? To me, I honestly do not know, and most importantly do not care, who is a catholic or protestant in the Ulster squad. I also don't care how many fans are catholics or protestants, or the ratios or whatever. We are all Ulstermen and we support the team and the players, and we have a great time supporting them!

I hope Ulster rugby continues to grow, but this "us and them" attitude is not helpful at all. We are all Ulstermen, and this is a sport that shouldn't have ANY sort of religious barriers. I hope that people will accept that and move on.

Even Barry McElduff has to talk about UR in a way that complimentary yet reinforces the fact that its seperated from him and his identity.

BARRY McELDUFF

Sinn Féin MLA

What I have found from people within Ulster Rugby is that they are professional, they’re serious and they’re sportsmen first and foremost.

I do detect a respect for the GAA inside Ulster Rugby.

Each sport is protective of its own and wants to promote its own but all efforts are to be encouraged in the cross-fertilisation of sport because it has the potential to break down barriers even further.

He talks as if theres GAA, and then theres non-catholic sport, or at least less catholic sports.

He talks about breaking down barriers, but ultimatly he has built a barrier by talking about UR in such an impersonal way. If he wanted to break down barriers he should say "I've watched some rugby, I like it, I want UR to do well, I want them to win, I support them".

Instead he basically calls UR protestant by claiming theres bridges being built between them and the catholics (GAA).

clivemcl wrote:

Look I've no problem if people dont support rugby, but to support our local rivals with little or no geographical link, makes my blood boil.

If you want to support Munster, get your arse away down there and eat turnip till your hearts content.

Calm down Clive man. Free world and all that. Woe be it if we were forced to support a particular team. Hitler is long dead, thank god!

Rava wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

Look I've no problem if people dont support rugby, but to support our local rivals with little or no geographical link, makes my blood boil.

If you want to support Munster, get your arse away down there and eat turnip till your hearts content.

Calm down Clive man. Free world and all that. Woe be it if we were forced to support a particular team. Hitler is long dead, thank god!

Its called pride and passion and loyalty... sure i'll throw honour in their too.

To actively choose not to support the place you were born and live is basically high treason in my books Rava.

Ah Clive it's not all nationalist/ catholic v unionist/Protestant.

Rugby in Ireland has grown massively off the back of the relative success we have had as a national team in the noughties. During that period munster and latterly Leinster have been the successful teams. People are drawn to success. I would expect many of these people to come back to ulster should we continue on our current path.

And some of us have the nerve to complain when Southern journos pigeon hole us!!

I'd like to see how it would go down if someone born and bred in Munster said they were a Leinster supporter. I think its despicable.

I think the tone of the article was to show that progress has been made but their is still more work to do.

For example the figure of 20% - 25% of the supporters being Catholic for example is encourging. Also I thought the club come out of it very well.

As for the Antrim lad we dont know his circumstances - maybe Dad is from Cork - who knows.

If I moved the other way I would remain an Ulster supporter.

I am disappointed when folk born/reared here support another province but that is their perogative.

The thing to do is keep supporting Ulster and keep getting the message out there that it is for EVERYONE and things will change.

If Mr Gallagher feels a greater affinity for Munster then so be.

I can tell you the next set of Parent Teacher interviews will be interesting though!

clivemcl wrote:I'd like to see how it would go down if someone born and bred in Munster said they were a Leinster supporter. I think its despicable.

I'm sorry Clive but it is exactly that kind of attitude that Ulster Rugby doesn't need.
I actually know Munster people who support Leinster and vice versa. There isn't and shouldn't be a problem with that.

Imagine what Old Trafford would be like if everyone had a Mancunian accent?

clivemcl wrote:I'd like to see how it would go down if someone born and bred in Munster said they were a Leinster supporter. I think its despicable.

Wow Clive!

Easy there lad!

Does anyone have a right to judge anyone else because of which sports team they chose to support?

That attitude is what we really really need to get away from, no?

Rava wrote:

clivemcl wrote:I'd like to see how it would go down if someone born and bred in Munster said they were a Leinster supporter. I think its despicable.

I'm sorry Clive but it is exactly that kind of attitude that Ulster Rugby doesn't need.
I actually know Munster people who support Leinster and vice versa. There isn't and shouldn't be a problem with that.

Imagine what Old Trafford would be like if everyone had a Mancunian accent?

Empty

Thanks Geoff

Wow! some of the reaction here is ridiculous. Believe it or not, I dont really have a platform, and i will not be telling any Munster supporting Ulstermen they are wrong any time soon. So you can all gently get back down off your high horses and postpone the crusade.

You are all of course right, everyone has human rights and can be betray their home soil if they so wish. When i say betray i mean support another team and hope they beat the team from which you were born and bred.

geoff998rugby wrote:I think the tone of the article was to show that progress has been made but their is still more work to do.

For example the figure of 20% - 25% of the supporters being Catholic for example is encourging. Also I thought the club come out of it very well.

As for the Antrim lad we dont know his circumstances - maybe Dad is from Cork - who knows.

If I moved the other way I would remain an Ulster supporter.

I don't know the circumstances, and I don't mind if he does feel his allegiance is to Munster although I would question why. I do not like the comment he made about not having a problem with people FROM ULSTER going to watch Ulster though. Who would have a problem with that, and why? People here are now saying if someone wants to support Munster (from Ulster) there shouldn't be a problem with it. That is true, but it is not a great sign if people from Ulster can have a problem with other Ulstermen supporting Ulster Rugby, yet nobody is saying anything about that.

Like I said, very much an "us and them" attitude that I would rather not see.

Clive,

You are posting on a public forum so you do have a platform.

I am frankly astonished that anyone could call someone "despicable" because they chose to support a different team.

I hope noone judges Ulster fans by that!

Well there are a hell of a lot of despicable Ulstermen who go over to support Rangers, Celtic, Man Utd, Liverpool etc every week when there are local teams available every week.

On a different note. Ruan Pienaar on the BBC website: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/18094208

Eyebrows were raised when Ruan Pienaar signed for Ulster but he has found it a natural home, both on and off the field.
The opportunity to experience life in a different country and sample the delights of the Heineken Cup were some of the reasons why he decided to leave South Africa and head for the northern hemisphere.
He had choices. David Humphreys persuaded the 28-year-old that Ulster was the perfect fit for him and his family and put the deal in place, and Pienaar has not looked back.
''I have never regretted it for a second,'' he said.
''I really enjoy the place and have made some good friends. To watch how this team has grown has been special for me and it's exciting to be a part of.''
Ulster were an under-performing, unsuccessful outfit when Pienaar arrived as one of the South African imports. He scored all 19 points against Glasgow on his debut in October 2010 but the first few months were a little rocky as he tried to find his rhythm.
Installed in his favourite scrum-half position, it all started to come right in the latter months of the season. Dramatic stoppage-time penalties and drop-goals were almost weekly occurrences in the Magners League as he almost single-handedly took Ulster to the semi-finals.
No surprise, then, when he was named as the Magners League Player of the Year such was his influence on that competition.
This season, the aura of the Springboks has grown even further.
Their influence on the team is immeasurable and the arrival of All Black World Cup winner John Afoa before Christmas has led Ulster's critics to point the finger and say "it's all about the foreign players''.
Pienaar seems shocked when the accusation is put to him. Modest as well as talented.
''I have never heard anyone say that,'' he insists.
''It takes 23 players in a squad on any given day to do something special.
''Everyone, from the management right down to the individual players, has worked very hard to get here.
''You can't single anyone out. And anyway, we are well aware that we haven't achieved anything yet. We still have a lot of hard work to do.''
It's obvious that for a man like Pienaar, who won the World Cup in 2007 and has been capped 51 times for his country, getting to a Heineken Cup final is not enough.

“This game is going to be right up there with anything I've played in before but this is why we play rugby”

Yet irrespective of what happens against Leinster on Saturday, Ulster's presence in the final ahead of schedule is a validation of the decision he made to come to Belfast in the first place.
He had faith in that decision months ago, long before the team embarked on this dizzy run, when he signed a two-year contract extension.
Paddy Wallace hopes Pienaar and the South Africans are here to stay. He accepts that without them, Ulster would not be in the place they are now, and having soldiered through so many barren seasons, who can blame him for revelling in the success.
''There's that debate on whether the foreign influence has taken away from the Irish team but I certainly don't think so,'' said Wallace.
"Take those players out of our team and Ulster aren't competitive in Europe.
''As a result, I wouldn't be as confident a player because I'm not winning games. It has different knock-on effects. I believe it can only be beneficial to us."
Pienaar has notched up 71 points already in the Heineken Cup this season and was named man of the match in the semi-final victory over Edinburgh.
It is no surprise that he has been included on the ERC's shortlist for the prestigious Player of the Year accolade, along with a home-grown and equally important talent, Stephen Ferris.

But Pienaar is the man who has to knock the kicks over. He has seen Ian Humphreys replaced by a young rookie, Paddy Jackson, outside him yet he still proves to be the man with the big match temperament.
The bigger the occasion, the better he seems to play.
''I do get nervous before big games,'' admits the 28-year-old.
''As I've got older I've learned how to handle it. I try to enjoy the occasion now.
''This game is going to be right up there with anything I've played in before but this is why we play rugby, to play in occasions like this.
''I've played in Twickenham before with South Africa but I've never played a club game in front of 82,000 fans and the noise and the colour they will bring will be amazing.''
He is unconcerned about Ulster's poor record gainst Leinster.
To upset the overwhelming odds against them, he believes they must play the game on their terms.
''We showed our status as a solid defensive unit in the last two games and scrambled well, but apart from the first 20 minutes against Munster we have not had our hands on much ball,'' he explained.
''We can't really afford to do that against Leinster.
''They have world class players and dangerous backs so it would be a mistake to let them have the ball for 80 minutes, which is more or less what happened against Edinburgh.
''Leinster are a top-class side. The challenge could not be greater.''
It's a challenge that Pienaar and friends are capable of meeting.