Rome Masters - Day 6 thread (SF)

[lydian]

First topic message reminder :

So, Federer didnt hang about in giving Seppi his much earned nights rest.
Great matches tomorrow...arguably the best 4 men on clay this year in the semis.
The order of play tomorrow...

Court CENTRALE

Not Before 4:00 PM
[6] David Ferrer (ESP) v [2] Rafael Nadal (ESP)
Nadal is moving up the gears and Ferrer is already in overdrive. Some cracking shots today by Rafa shows his confidence is starting to rocket. I fully expect Ferrer to be overtaken 6-4, 6-3.

Not Before 8:00 PM
[1] Novak Djokovic (SRB) v [3] Roger Federer (SUI)
Their first meet up since that epic USO SF last year...will it come down to 1-2 shots again?
Well both men are showing great form...but I expect the Swiss to roll over Novak after the maestro sprints out of the blocks early on. Djokovic doesnt like the ball coming at him so early and I think more than Nadal is vulnerable to being rushed. I'm expecting Federer to tear through the first set catching Novak cold. Novak wakes up and stretches the 2nd to a TB which Federer edges...6-3, 7-6 (if Novak can sneak the 2nd then I think he'll win the 3rd fairly routinely 6-3 but I'm firmly of the view that Fed will win, probability 80%).

Cant wait!!!

[bogbrush]

I said above that FEderer shouldn've be tired for the reasons I gave above. But, I'm not sure. He did look tired at times, or at least, something wasn't right somehow, if not physically maybe mentally or emotionally. Not an excuse though.
That's 4-1 Djokovic in the head to head last season and 1-0 this.
3-0 to Djokovic in slams last season vs Federer and 1-0 so far this season.
No doubt who is the better player.
Saying that, Federer could still get to no 1 this season. But surely he needs a win in his next match against Djokovic. Especially since it could well come in a slam and a big points swing would be at stake, who knows...maybe at Wimbledon for instance?

No, 2-1 in Slams last year, and one of those as close toa draw as ths sport can give you.

[slashermcguirk]

Great performance from djokovic, looked very impressive and should be a great final tomorrow. Very tough to call

[reckoner]

Gutted for Fed! Not sure he's going to do it in the slams this year - but hey the old boy's done well so far this season, hats off!

[summerblues]

I wouldn't read too much into it

It would be great to be inside Fed's head to know what he thinks. On Monday quite a few were saying that getting to the SF but no further might be the optimal result for Fed this week. If he himself was - even subconsciously - thinking the same, then I think he will shake the loss off easily. However, if he was thinking of this week as the test whether he can beat the top 2 then it could be a significant blow. Here he comes midway through a great run of form but then never really even looks all that close to Nole. That could be crushing. So I think it all depends on what he was thinking going into the match.

[bogbrush]

He went into RG last year on the back of non-stop hidings fom Djokovic & Nadal and had his second best event.

He's too experienced to be flapping with results.

[summerblues]

He went into RG last year on the back of non-stop hidings fom Djokovic & Nadal and had his second best event.

He's too experienced to be flapping with results.

Fair point.

[Guest]

I think Federer will be more annoyed with the performance than the result. The FH has been surgical precise and the one person he wanted it to be working against was Djokovic.

Federer is doing the right things. Let's not get away from that. The FH and BH tonight looked sloppy and lazy at times. His serving has been superb this week, until tonight. Didn't get any wide tonight for the S&V play. No cheap points and I just think Federer looked dis-interested after the first 7 games.

[lydian]

Yes but on clay in 2011 he hadnt lost to Novak (didnt play him before RG), and had lost a relatively lost match to Nadal at Madrid (3-setter) so likely felt relatively ok going into RG.

All that said, I do agree he's got much better at shaking off results than before. He's more mellow that way. But I still believe he has to be scratching his head a little at this result. Why? because this isnt like this point in 2011...this year he was coming into the SF against Novak in amazing form. He'd practically dismissed all before him at Madrid and Rome...and its not like he lost a close match to Novak either (compared to his loss as I mentioned to Nadal). This time his form deserted him all of a sudden which potentially speaks of mental fragility...and its this fragility that will make him wonder the next time they meet.

But he has to get to the semis first for that to even be a worry...a lot of tennis to be played beforehand and there's always potential banana-skins along the way for the top 4.

[luciusmann]

Actually, it's quite simple Tom.

I been posting for almost a year on this forum, and the only times I see you pop up on here is usually when Federer loses. I don't think I ever seen you on here when Federer is winning or Nadal for that matter. You're conspicuous by your timing. Strange that.

I distinctly remember when you came up after Federer lost in the USO semi final to Djokovic (ditto French Open final). It does say something about a person who comes on to rub it in....or perhaps that's not why you appear on here when Fed loses....? Maybe you come here to console us Fed fans! Somehow I doubt it!

Anyway, I got Chelsea to be immensely delighted about, so I won't bother to wait for your response!

[socal1976]

Funny how crowds never seem to favour Djokovic...

I think that is very unfair, exactly how many players on tour enjoy more crowd support than fed? Nobody, Fed is the ageing legend and probably the most beloved guy in the last so many years. Plus in every tennis match I have watched the fans root for the guy who is down in the second set because they want to see 50 percent more tennis for their ticket. At least all the neutrals do. I have seen Djokovic play at Indian Wells live and this myth propogated that he doesn't get fan support is not what I have witnessed in my 4 or 5 trips to Indian wells. For sure Nadal and Fed are more popular but that is to be expected as Novak only reached their tennis level 14 or 15 months ago.

[socal1976]

As usual Djokovic displayed what in my mind makes him the most balanced baseliner in history. Very few players that I can think of have been as good off of both sides as Djokovic has been the last couple of years. Agassi and Lendl are the two that come to my mind. Federer and Nadal as well. But Novak has a better backhand than both Nadal and Fed and his forehand frankly is competive if not the equal of the other two. And the thing that separates him from both lendl and Agassi is that neither legend had anywhere approaching Djokovic's speed. The combination of forehand, backhand, and lethal speed is quite rare and why i often think of Novak as maybe the most balanced baseliner of all time. Many times in this contest Novak matched Roger forehand for forehand but Roger could not match Djoko backhand to backhand.


Next deciding factor, Novak returns Roger particularly well and Federer who had been untouchable on serve all year was broken 3 times in two sets and was under pressure in most service games.

[lydian]

Yes but socal I'm not saying he hasn't got fans, what I'm saying is he doesn't seem to be favoured in matches, i.e. that you feel a majority of the crowd are for him not the other player...unless its the Belgrade Open of course
I don't think reaching their level is all that relevant, I just don't think he has as broad an appeal as many others. Sure his technique is perfect...he's kind of a tennis players' tennis player...not someone also neutrals get behind you feel (in the majority during a match).

[lydian]

On your other post, yes Novak has amazing technique and speed. It's all textbook. What I find he doesn't do like some of these legends you mention is come up with those inspirational winners at big points...Nadal and Federer do that far mre often, as did Agassi. With Novak, he tends to run the guys left or right then hit the clean winner into the space...not thread the needle so much. Fair enough...maybe he doesn't need to but I for one, for this reason, don't find him as inspirational a player to watch.

[socal1976]

Well, I disagree with you there lydian look at the last two semis at the USO, he hit numerous inspirational and memorable shots. In fact, he hit possibly the biggest most remembered one shot knock out punch in recent memory of the sport. Pretty good for a guy who is not known for big winners in big points and just hits the ball into open space. In response to your question who hit the biggest winner of 2011? Novak Djokovic, US open semi match point down. He did the same thing against Roger the year before where he cranked terrifying forehands on match point that split the lines.

And to your fan support argument as I have said he gets a great deal support. Of course the greying legend riding off into the sunset is going to get more cheers especially fighting to stay in the match what ticket holder doesn't want a bonus set. But to look at that moment and to comment on how much fan support Roger gets and how Djokovic lacks that support is in my mind unfair. When Novak is 31 playing some younger champion I am sure he will get the sympathy vote that Roger gets now as an older champion on the way out.

[LuvSports!]

you really don't like feds do ya

[bogbrush]

I think while socal is around it's easier just to to say that everything Djokovic does is amazing, he's loved by crowds the World over and he has the best hairstyle on the tour.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Novak won't be in condition to reach quarters/semis/finals when he's 31, your point is mooted.

In other news looks like the match will be cancelled:

https://twitter.com/#!/enricomariariva/status/204273542370566146

[Josiah Maiestas]

I think while socal is around it's easier just to to say that everything Djokovic does is amazing, he's loved by crowds the World over and he has the best hairstyle on the tour.

If we argue indifferently to his/her fictional writings, then we are Federnazis who should be watching ballet.

[socal1976]

you really don't like feds do ya

No I actually do like Fed, I will be very sad when he is gone. I think he has been a great champion and ambassador for the sport. A lot of his fans online however seem to completely lack the grace of their idol. Maybe I am just tired of years of reading incessant and noxious posts about how Roger's opponents are either cheats, dopers, crap, boring, or whatever. Generally, as a novak fan i am not too in love with the fed afterall these two have duked it out about 30 times on tour. But I hold no particular animosity for Roger. Some of his online fans however aren't as ingratiating.

[LuvSports!]

i just don't agree that when novak is 31 he will have the same support federer receives now and to say 'he gets the sympathy vote as an old champion on the way out', PAH! That's a low blow socal.

[socal1976]

i just don't agree that when novak is 31 he will have the same support federer receives now and to say 'he gets the sympathy vote as an old champion on the way out', PAH! That's a low blow socal.

It is not a low blow it is the truth. The older veteran player is more recognizable to the fans has been around for awhile. And Roger is the greatest player taking his long slow goodbye with game. Hell that could last anohter 3-5 years I hope it does. But generally fans root for a third set, they also root for the player that they have watched for many, many years especially when he is leaving. Did you see the frenzy around Agassi and Connors at the USO when they were leaving? Or around other stars in the past, it isn't something just unique to fed. And of course however for fed he is the goat and probably the most universally loved player of recent memory. So why take that moment to compare Djoko's fan support to Roger fighting to stay in the match?

[invisiblecoolers]

Actually i agree with socal here, with more time Djoko will have a big fan base 4 sure, the rate of growth of fanbase is huge and i wont be surprised he gets as many as fed when retires specially if he keeps up this game n tempo.

[luciusmann]

I'll agree that Djokovic will get more fans when he gets older. I also agree Fed gets more support as a sort of 'elder statesman' of the game. I'm not sure Djokovic will get quite the level of support Fed gets when he's in these close matches when he's older although I will concede that the 'level of support' a player appears to get on court is difficult to quantify.

I only referred to the support Fed was getting in Rome because it was very noticeable. It reminded me of the French Open last year when the crowd really got behind Federer, not because he was the underdog (although he usually is @ RG), they actually wanted him to win. Many Nadal fans @ the time actually disliked the French crowd's partisan favouring of Fed, and it wasn't great (if you're a Nadal fan) but for Fed fans, it was nice. He didn't win the prize, but he wins the crowd, that's something in defeat. After so many defeats to Nadal @ RG, that's some comfort in that.

[Guest]

I believe that when Djokovic is 31 he will have three children, one of whom will be called Boban.

[Haddie-nuff]

[invisiblecoolers]

@ Lucius

Fed has fans all over the world, he has fans who doesn't even understand the game let alone follow the game. People all over the world like him for the great human being he is [ for all his charity works, humbleness etc,...] coupled with great player he is.

He is a rare combination.

He not only raised the level of game on court but off court too, Rafa doing a lot of charity works, many tennis players do lot of charity work these days [which wasn't prevalent in the past], now no.1 player means loads of responsibility on shoulders outside the court too, we see how Novak has matured in his speeches and off court antics from the time he started.

Tennis is indebted to the great man.

[LuvSports!]

so every older statesmen will receive more support?? Or is just fed as an elder statesmen receives more support?
I think federer has done more for the game than novak has which is why he is so endeared, also for his style of play, to the crowd. Was Sampras as popular? I don't think so, which is why i think he won't ever receive as much support as federer has.

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