Cleverly's next opponent

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Apparently Cleverly is looking to rematch Bellew for his next title defence, with Dawson tied up it makes sense. He demanded that Frank Warren arrange the matchup, he wrote this on twitter 'Spoke to my promoter this morning .... have asked him to make the Bellew fight .... lets do this!'

Should be another cracker much like the first one was.

Personally I would like Bellew to get more experience before making the jump, but he proved he can handle himself.

I am a fan of Cleverly, but also a fan of Bellew as well, his reaction to Froch winning was amazing!

Thoughts?

[quote="azania"]

DAVE667 wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

azania wrote:Why re-match him. Clev has already proven to be the better fighter.

A fair few (Not me) thought Bellew won, it was close, and it was a good fight, and it sells.

But would rather see Cleverly fight a World level opponent..[/quote]

Why? Clev's hardly proved himself to be world class. Bellew gassed in the final two rounds otherwise he'd be World Champion today and he'd be the one banging down doors to fight a genuine world class fighter. Bellew has matured a great deal since that fight with Cleverley and if he works on his conditioning, I'd look to him going one better this time around. He outjabbed Cleverley for most of that fight and with improved tactics I can see him winning a decision.

No real dislike for Cleverley, he's a nice lad but he's failed to set the world alight despite having a World Title and arguably one of the savviest promotors around at the minute. One has to think that if Bellew DOES go with Matchroom, Eddie Hearn will secure some big fights as he doesn't appear to be afraid to stick his neck out.

Bellew is not classy or humble. He's a loud mouth oaf. What has he done to warrant a rematch?

Bellews not humble? He at least admits he isn't ready for the top boys at 175lbs unlike Cleverly who said he is then fights a guy who is used as a sparring partner for average fighters.

Many people thought he won the first fight. I think in World title fights where the decision is that close and the fight was good there should be no arguments with a rematch.

BoxingFan88 wrote:Wow I thought this was some good news? It was a close fight and therefore deserves a rematch.

Why bother letting Froch rematch Kessler? He lost first time....

Come on...

It wasn't that close to warrant a rematch. Clev should be looking at bigger and better things. He's past the likes of Bellew who is a tad below euro level at best. What is it with you guys anyway? You want the best to fight the best yet you applaud a good fighter fighting a domestic level opponent. You can't make it up.

[quote="SugarRayRussell (PBK)"]

azania wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

azania wrote:Why re-match him. Clev has already proven to be the better fighter.

A fair few (Not me) thought Bellew won, it was close, and it was a good fight, and it sells.

But would rather see Cleverly fight a World level opponent..[/quote]

Why? Clev's hardly proved himself to be world class. Bellew gassed in the final two rounds otherwise he'd be World Champion today and he'd be the one banging down doors to fight a genuine world class fighter. Bellew has matured a great deal since that fight with Cleverley and if he works on his conditioning, I'd look to him going one better this time around. He outjabbed Cleverley for most of that fight and with improved tactics I can see him winning a decision.

No real dislike for Cleverley, he's a nice lad but he's failed to set the world alight despite having a World Title and arguably one of the savviest promotors around at the minute. One has to think that if Bellew DOES go with Matchroom, Eddie Hearn will secure some big fights as he doesn't appear to be afraid to stick his neck out.

Bellew is not classy or humble. He's a loud mouth oaf. What has he done to warrant a rematch?

Bellews not humble? He at least admits he isn't ready for the top boys at 175lbs unlike Cleverly who said he is then fights a guy who is used as a sparring partner for average fighters.

Many people thought he won the first fight. I think in World title fights where the decision is that close and the fight was good there should be no arguments with a rematch.

He's only speaking the truth. At least he knows his level. Clev says he is because he knows he's better than the likes of Bellew. Plus Clev is a world champ so its right he should aim high.

Many people wished the fight was closer. It wasn't. Had it gone to Mr Winklechops it would have been a clear robbery.

[quote="azania"]

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

azania wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

azania wrote:Why re-match him. Clev has already proven to be the better fighter.

A fair few (Not me) thought Bellew won, it was close, and it was a good fight, and it sells.

But would rather see Cleverly fight a World level opponent..[/quote]

Why? Clev's hardly proved himself to be world class. Bellew gassed in the final two rounds otherwise he'd be World Champion today and he'd be the one banging down doors to fight a genuine world class fighter. Bellew has matured a great deal since that fight with Cleverley and if he works on his conditioning, I'd look to him going one better this time around. He outjabbed Cleverley for most of that fight and with improved tactics I can see him winning a decision.

No real dislike for Cleverley, he's a nice lad but he's failed to set the world alight despite having a World Title and arguably one of the savviest promotors around at the minute. One has to think that if Bellew DOES go with Matchroom, Eddie Hearn will secure some big fights as he doesn't appear to be afraid to stick his neck out.

Bellew is not classy or humble. He's a loud mouth oaf. What has he done to warrant a rematch?

Bellews not humble? He at least admits he isn't ready for the top boys at 175lbs unlike Cleverly who said he is then fights a guy who is used as a sparring partner for average fighters.

Many people thought he won the first fight. I think in World title fights where the decision is that close and the fight was good there should be no arguments with a rematch.

He's only speaking the truth. At least he knows his level. Clev says he is because he knows he's better than the likes of Bellew. Plus Clev is a world champ so its right he should aim high.

Many people wished the fight was closer. It wasn't. Had it gone to Mr Winklechops it would have been a clear robbery.

I had Bellew winning the fight and so did guys I consider good judges like Dave Coldwell and Spencer Fearon.

As for Cleverly being a 'World' champion he is a paper champion. No one at 175lbs deserves to be called the champion apart from dawson he took the title off the top man not a plumber.

Yep, he's a paper champion I agree with that. But he believes in himself that he's the best. Credit him for that. Now Warren should deliver for Clev.

As for the scoring, well its subjective, but most had Clev winning.

Steffan wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:It would have been "We offered Dawson the fight in Cardiff and he turned it down" and the armchair folk (or Steffan) would have been preaching that this was Dawson ducking Clev.

Ah brings back the Joe days

Joe was supposed to fight Brian Magee as well. But no doubt Joe ducked that one!

Ofcourse. Joe would have never gone up against a fighter from the mighty Northern Ireland

Don't bring nations into it Steffan. Easy mate, easssy! (takes his hand from his pistol)

Oh I would never do that

Your can put it away officer....the gun that is

Officer Krupke. Standing down.

Anyone who gets that reference has as much to be embarrassed about as me

Bellew been running off at the mouth. When Clevs see him...hes gonna close it. Clev rejects the challenge...because Bellew is no challenge. But hed be happy to beat up on him some more. He always said he was nothing. Clevs the champion of the world. He cant be beat and he wont be beat. This time hel train even harder. There wont be no decision. Clevs gonna torture him...real bad

Steffan wrote:Bellew been running off at the mouth. When Clevs see him...hes gonna close it. Clev rejects the challenge...because Bellew is no challenge. But hed be happy to beat up on him some more. He always said he was nothing. Clevs the champion of the world. He cant be beat and he wont be beat. This time hel train even harder. There wont be no decision. Clevs gonna torture him...real bad

Absolute nonsense. Bellew would be no challenge for a World class 175lber like Dawson or Pascal but for a Euro level mug like Cleverly he is a real handful.

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Thought you'd love him for those reasons exactly Az?

Its too contrived.

No pleasing some people...

I'll look forward to this eventually but I don't really see how it's any different from the first, absolutely nothing has developed since. It really doesn't whet my appetite right now I know that.

Clev needs to step up his oppo, Bellew needs to be in pursuit.

i didnt think bellew deserved the shot the first time round, beating mckensie twice does not put you in that level im afraid- i hope he does rematch him, and gets beat, that would ruffle warrens feathers. i have warmed to bellew thought he was a melon at first but this is just another money making no risk taken fight. shame i wonder what cleverly could do against someone even fringe world level, but doesnt look like he's going to get a chance.

Amidst all the stuff about Cleverly being a disgrace etc I think its largely forgotten that the fight was actually a good contest and pretty close. I wouldnt mind seeing it again personally and think it would be a good fight. Its a fight Cleverly probably got some actual good experience in also so I wouldnt mind seeing if he can improve on that, draw a line under it and then progress.

I dont really the point of calling out Dawson. If he did want to fight Dawson, Dawson has bigger fish to fry. Ward first and win or lose back to LH to face the winner of Pascal/Cloud hopefully.

Cleverly should look at Bellew and then Shumenov I think to keep a steady solid progression without anything rash.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Thought you'd love him for those reasons exactly Az?

Its too contrived.

No pleasing some people...

I like them to be naturally stupid.

manos de piedra wrote:Amidst all the stuff about Cleverly being a disgrace etc I think its largely forgotten that the fight was actually a good contest and pretty close. I wouldnt mind seeing it again personally and think it would be a good fight. Its a fight Cleverly probably got some actual good experience in also so I wouldnt mind seeing if he can improve on that, draw a line under it and then progress.

I dont really the point of calling out Dawson. If he did want to fight Dawson, Dawson has bigger fish to fry. Ward first and win or lose back to LH to face the winner of Pascal/Cloud hopefully.

Cleverly should look at Bellew and then Shumenov I think to keep a steady solid progression without anything rash.

dont think theres any chance of anything rash from the cleverly team. he is an so called established world champion without any real name of any note of his CV. he needs to be tested, he is wasting his career, and wins over bellew are going to make dawson, pascal, hopkins or anyone else take any notice.

eddyfightfan wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Amidst all the stuff about Cleverly being a disgrace etc I think its largely forgotten that the fight was actually a good contest and pretty close. I wouldnt mind seeing it again personally and think it would be a good fight. Its a fight Cleverly probably got some actual good experience in also so I wouldnt mind seeing if he can improve on that, draw a line under it and then progress.

I dont really the point of calling out Dawson. If he did want to fight Dawson, Dawson has bigger fish to fry. Ward first and win or lose back to LH to face the winner of Pascal/Cloud hopefully.

Cleverly should look at Bellew and then Shumenov I think to keep a steady solid progression without anything rash.

dont think theres any chance of anything rash from the cleverly team. he is an so called established world champion without any real name of any note of his CV. he needs to be tested, he is wasting his career, and wins over bellew are going to make dawson, pascal, hopkins or anyone else take any notice.

Hopkins would come over here and fight Cleverly if Frank stumps up the cash but Cleverly isn't a big enough name to draw in the crowds that would cover the cost Warren would have to pay out for B-Hop.

and he wont be till he takes a chance. the only reason hopkins might take the fight would be to take the title of a weak champion. i seriously doubt he will take on any serious contender, frank likes the dollars to much.

[quote="azania"]
Plus Clev is a world champ so its right he should aim high.

Fine, but does he have to miss so often!! He aims for Hopkins and gets a nurse!!!

i thought clev would have gone for the WBA champ 2-3 fights ago before anyonee got to him and took the title. doesnt look like he wants any part of that.

eddyfightfan wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Amidst all the stuff about Cleverly being a disgrace etc I think its largely forgotten that the fight was actually a good contest and pretty close. I wouldnt mind seeing it again personally and think it would be a good fight. Its a fight Cleverly probably got some actual good experience in also so I wouldnt mind seeing if he can improve on that, draw a line under it and then progress.

I dont really the point of calling out Dawson. If he did want to fight Dawson, Dawson has bigger fish to fry. Ward first and win or lose back to LH to face the winner of Pascal/Cloud hopefully.

Cleverly should look at Bellew and then Shumenov I think to keep a steady solid progression without anything rash.

dont think theres any chance of anything rash from the cleverly team. he is an so called established world champion without any real name of any note of his CV. he needs to be tested, he is wasting his career, and wins over bellew are going to make dawson, pascal, hopkins or anyone else take any notice.

Id view things a bit differently. I dont really regard Cleverly as an established world champion. Sure, he holds a title, but thats about it. I actually think he closer to prospect or developing than an established fighter at this stage. As such I think he needs to be developed carefully. I understand the argument that hes holds a title and therefore is obliged to face the best but I thinks its the system that broken and its kind of unreasonable and unrealistic to for Cleverly to charge in taking on guys that are clearly a level up from him.

From a fans perspective I thought the Bellew fight was entertaining and close. I wouldnt mind watching it again if it was more of the same. But I also think its an opportunity for Cleverly to build on the experience from the last fight and given the close nature of the contest I think a rematch isnt that bad a call. If he beat Bellew more comfortably it would be a sign of development and progression and he could move on. I think he actually needs these kind of fights that are tough and testing without overmatching him so when you say he needs to be tested I agree, but surely on the basis of the last fight with Bellew that is the sort of test he is looking at?

After that I would take care of whatever mandatory he has and then look to fight Shumenov who is in a similarish situation to himself. If he wins that then with two titles he becomes a player in the division.

[quote="bhb001"]

azania wrote:
Plus Clev is a world champ so its right he should aim high.

Fine, but does he have to miss so often!! He aims for Hopkins and gets a nurse!!!

Warren delivered the night nurse to Clev.

yeah but he has had several defenses of his title, hes been a pro for a while and doesnt fight as often as fighters building up experence. they try passing fights each fight of as a genuine worthy title fight, and his level off opposition isnt even gradually improving.

i dont wanna come across as anti cleverly, because i think he does show lots of promise, but i would hate for this to carry indefintly, as i think if you wanna be champ you should at least look like your trying to compete at a certain level, and try and please the fans. think warren is more to blame, which is a shame as he seems to allow some of his fighters to take the next step but not cleverly.

eddyfightfan wrote:yeah but he has had several defenses of his title, hes been a pro for a while

Well he has had 3 defences and the Kuziemski fight was ofcourse a last minute substitute for Brahmer who was the champ. He has only been a full time pro since finishing his degree in 2010. I agree he needs to up his opposition and fight more often though. I got no issues with a Bellew rematch. Clev is clearly the better fighter but I want him to bust up that mouthy scouser

Steffan wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:yeah but he has had several defenses of his title, hes been a pro for a while

Well he has had 3 defences and the Kuziemski fight was ofcourse a last minute substitute for Brahmer who was the champ. He has only been a full time pro since finishing his degree in 2010. I agree he needs to up his opposition and fight more often though. I got no issues with a Bellew rematch. Clev is clearly the better fighter but I want him to bust up that mouthy scouser

thought he'd fought more than that so fair doos, i know he's had problems with opponents dropping out but he hasnt had that defining fight (brahmer was not his fault granted) yet, and he doesnt seem keen on having it yet. i think bellew would be a decent scrap, but it should be for the british not world title when you look at the combined experence. id even prefer him to go in with big mac, at least he has been in with quality opponents. makes sense moneywise too.

It seems anyone who challenges a welsh fighter while they hold a belt are labled as loud mouth, or horrible scum (Froch / Bellew) and anyone who criticises them on a forum gets lynched by overprotective brown noses. That's why I like the English, They arent afraid to see the big picture.

Even the Scottish are quick to hit out at Burns for his defenses at super feather.

But it seems the welsh boys just can't accept the real picture. Cleverly would rather stay at domestic level rather than fight at the level at which he holds a belt. By the way Az, this Bellew isn't Warrens doing.

http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/story/153169.html

Clev knows he is supposed to be fighting a world title mandatory challenger but instead demands the British Champ hahaha. Maybe a rematch with Karpencys supervisor will be the follow up

[quote="azania"]

bhb001 wrote:

azania wrote:
Plus Clev is a world champ so its right he should aim high.

Fine, but does he have to miss so often!! He aims for Hopkins and gets a nurse!!!

Warren delivered the night nurse to Clev.

Surely that's the "right" nurse, as it was one that Clev could beat.

As long as they're in the top 3 of the WBO - who cares?

He'll never fight another champion - not until he shows that he can step up to that level.

Would be a good scrap again, lets be honest they are both at this stage a pair of decent European level fighters and Cleverly being called a world Champion is a bit silly really when you consider the toughest person he has shared a ring with other than Bellew is Carol Vorderman. Personally I think Bellew is the better of the 2 potentially and would be better holding off of this fight for another year because at that stage i think his skills will have surpassed Cleverly's.