England vs South Africa. My thoughts

Right, a very entertaining test match. I was watching on a stream that went a tad dodgy and thus missed the punch, so can someone please tell me wha happened there?
Anyway

South Africa

Huge positives for them. I foolishly didn't think they would be this strong. I was very impressed with Alberts, as were most people. What a monster that man is. Three times Marler got the ball with a bit of space, and was bundled backwards by Alberts. Hugely impressive player.

Another positive was Kruger, what a player he is. Northampton's loss was clearly South Africa's game. He made a few mistakes and the lineout is not as strong as it has been in recent years thanks to Matfield but I'm confident he can develop as the squad spend more time together.

England

It's clear, that apart from his kicking farrell offers NOTHING. I hope flood kicks well in practice because my lord, farrell has no idea how to unlock a defence.
I also thought England missed a trick by not throwing on Joseph earlier. Scored two tries in very little time against the Barbarians and three minutes is a stupidly short amount of time for any player to make an impact. Poor use of the subs there Lancaster.

Brown was very impressive, and I'm a huge fan of foden. Brown was cermented his place in the next test.
Robshaw as usual led well, and put in a huge shift but as Brian Mujati commented on twitter, there is no player like Alberts in the premiership. He was by far the better 7 today.

Manu Tuilagi, well. He really seemed to not like the SA back line did he? Sat De Villiers on his backside quite a few times. I'd keep him for next week. Ashton is showing some maturity these days.

The front row, silly with the early engages. No idea what was going on there. Paul Doran Jones got humilated though. Marlers 1st test, not bad. Like I said, managed to run into Alberts every time in the loose!


So what do you guys think?
Congrats Biltong. Hope you have a few drinks tonight

Farrell needs to losing the head band. It looks silly on a 10 and he look more ready to start Wimbledon than rugby match.

Flanker, thanks, Brown was special, in my view the player of the match for England, youngs did well too.

Tuilagi needs to be careful what he does with his elbows though, a few more of that and captains whispering in the ear of the referee and you may miss him for 10 minutes.

All round I really don't think England had any bad players out there, they did however run into a well organised defence, those little chips created pressure, and was it not for a desperate back taklce by Hougaard, england would have had a try earlier.

Don;t reall yknow what to say to criticise england, they may need a little more variation with Tuiagi, there is no use you break one tackle get over the gainline, but then don't offload to the support runner once you get nailed in the nxt tackle.

Thanks Biltong. Whilst I was impressed with Tom Johnson, I do want to see Haskell in the team. Throw him in at starting 8 and have Morgan come on when the game breaks up a little?

no mate, I won't take Morgan out of the equation. He made the most meters of all your forwards and he didn't miss a tackle plus he had a number of offloads

I think Robshaw was absolutely outstanding in defence for us today. His work-rate and tackle count as usual was top notch, however today he won at least two turnovers and a couple of penalties down to impressive work at the breakdown.

However, in attack he didn't quite exert the influence he has down for Quins all season, and maybe should have offered himself as a ball carrier a little more.

I don't want to underestimate Farrell's defensive ability, however we need a 10 who can get the backline moving and Farrell simply doesn't have a clue. Flood to start at 10 in the next test.

We can not judge any of the players on the pitch when the front five are getting hammered back at every tackle.

The backs and backrow didn't have a platform to play off for most of the game as the tight five just couldn't compete. We need to get our pack sorted fast or else this series will be a white wash.

Oh and Flood has to start, at least then on the turnover/counter we'll have a bit of threat.

God I wish we had Attwood and Garvey in the squad

God I wish we had Attwood and Garvey in the squad

flankertye wrote:God I wish we had Attwood and Garvey in the squad

I agree, there would have had a good chance of them starting the next test.

We do need more grunt in the pack.

"God I wish we had Attwood and Garvey in the squad"

Massively agree with this. I assumed both of them were injured in order for Kitchener and Robson to get selected ahead of them.

I personally think Attwood was one of the few positive aspects of Bath's season. He must have been gutted not to get selected. I reckon he'll displace Botha by next season.

Garvey is another very impressive player, his work-rate is incredible for such a big heavy bloke. He puts in a high tackle count and is a strong ball carrier. Hopefully he'll be given a spot in the EPS next season.

flankertye wrote:The front row, silly with the early engages. No idea what was going on there.

Walsh took England aside and said it was down to Morgan initiating from the back. I haven't watched a replay and given Walsh's interpretation of certain parts of the game I'm not sure how accurate that is.

biltongbek wrote:no mate, I won't take Morgan out of the equation. He made the most meters of all your forwards and he didn't miss a tackle plus he had a number of offloads

True, but pretty much all of those were in the first quarter, after which he disappeared from the game. There was a similar issue in the 6N where he didn't seem to be effective for more than half a game. Not sure if that is an ongoing general fitness issue or due to his recent injuries. Either way I'd be looking for a good performance from the midweek 8 and aiming to at least bring him onto the bench for the 2nd test.

Like I said, Haskell is physical, good work rate, makes the hard carries, as well as being able to gallop in the wide spaces.
People seem to forget how well he played in the world cup

flankertye wrote:Like I said, Haskell is physical, good work rate, makes the hard carries, as well as being able to gallop in the wide spaces.
People seem to forget how well he played in the world cup

I agree, he was arguably our best forward at the World Cup and would complement our current pack well.

What happened to Farrel - went awol?

Youngs Kick / pass / run 10/56/3
Farell 6/16/1

so he took 1/4 ish of the passes from the scrum half. JHe is supposed to be the playmaker.

Was Foden not to blame for the SA tray - it was his man who scored - poorpositioning as he is not a winger?

I agree with most of what is said above from what I saw. Next week, Haskell as our bench man to get him involved. If Danny plays well in the midweekers, he should get a bench berth too. In my eyes one of the 2nd row places might be up for grabs too. Flood to start with Youngs. I think he could make a huge difference.

England don't have the grunt to last the full 80 going hammer and tongs against the SA forwards. Need to play a looser, more atacking game. Youngs-flood with care coming on around 50-60

flankertye wrote:God I wish we had Attwood and Garvey in the squad

Seconded, particularly Garvey. I have no idea how Lancaster could not pick him.

biltongbek wrote:no mate, I won't take Morgan out of the equation. He made the most meters of all your forwards and he didn't miss a tackle plus he had a number of offloads

That's all well and good, and i want him to start, but he needs to improve his conditioning because he's gone after 60 mins

My concern is that although Youngs looked good running the ball at times, his passing was too often wayward and lacking zip. Stating the obvious, but SA is a completely different ball game from the Premiership and he needs to sharpen up there, shipping the ball on quicker and with more precision, it's probably more important to giving Flood the right platform than his running threat.

Based on recent club performance I would have started Care today. I'd certainly be looking to promote him to the bench for the 2nd test and get him on early if Youngs doesn't step up a gear with his passing.

biltongbek wrote:Flanker, thanks, Brown was special, in my view the player of the match for England, youngs did well too.

Tuilagi needs to be careful what he does with his elbows though, a few more of that and captains whispering in the ear of the referee and you may miss him for 10 minutes.

All round I really don't think England had any bad players out there, they did however run into a well organised defence, those little chips created pressure, and was it not for a desperate back taklce by Hougaard, england would have had a try earlier.

Don;t reall yknow what to say to criticise england, they may need a little more variation with Tuiagi, there is no use you break one tackle get over the gainline, but then don't offload to the support runner once you get nailed in the nxt tackle.

You could say that about a number of SA players, they all lead into the tackler with their shoulder.

What did the other posters think about the final tackle in ENG v SA game? He try to push Foden into touch but with flying shoulder and was no arms wrap around. Was it legal?

deffo wasn't legal at all. All too common with those kind of in the corner try scoring acts.
Youngs passsing was very high a lot of the time. Lucky no one got nailed. Hospital passes are very ouch

You make it sound like the Toeava tackle on Hape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJER_5iiUFI




By the way, what happened to Richard Kahui, he was looking in good form last year?