England Player Ratings v SA

These are not my ratings, rather an average of those awarded by journos.

As I find more i will amend this post.

Current contributors: Planet Rugby, Telegraph, Sunday Times, The Rugby Paper, The Times

Mike Brown	6.6
Chris Ashton	5.8
Manu Tuilagi	6.8
Brad Barritt	5.2
Ben Foden	6.6
Owen Farrell	5.0
Ben Youngs	5.6
Ben Morgan	5.2
Chris Robshaw	7.0
Tom Johnson	6.4
Geoff Parling	6.2
Mouritz Botha	6.8
Dan Cole	6.0
Dylan Hartley	5.0
Joe Marler	5.4

Tuilagi got a 7?! I literally do not think he passed the ball once in the entire game, which as a 13 who's role is to bosh over players and then offload is a pretty big failing!

Other then that i'd probably agree with the rest of the scores except lowering Parlings and rasing the front rows a little.

And Farrell gets about a 3

yappysnap wrote:Tuilagi got a 7?! I literally do not think he passed the ball once in the entire game, which as a 13 who's role is to bosh over players and then offload is a pretty big failing!

He got an 8 from Paul Ackford in the torygraph!

He passed his fist ball to the winger, after that I agree that (similar to normal offloaders like Marler) there was little release of the ball. While he may have been looking for contact - to be fair our support running was dire. I wonder whether Marler had nightmares last night of running into a line of Alberts with no support in white.

Just looking at planet rugby and i'd probably take a point off nearly all of their scorse.

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Tuilagi got a 7?! I literally do not think he passed the ball once in the entire game, which as a 13 who's role is to bosh over players and then offload is a pretty big failing!

He got an 8 from Paul Ackford in the torygraph!

He passed his fist ball to the winger, after that I agree that (similar to normal offloaders like Marler) there was little release of the ball. While he may have been looking for contact - to be fair our support running was dire. I wonder whether Marler had nightmares last night of running into a line of Alberts with no support in white.

It did seem like a lit of the players had never played an offloading/support game before. Odd when a lot come from Tigers and Quins. We need an impressive attacking game next week as the cracks are already showing in SL's coaching.

Ackford is a buffoon!

I personally would give Brown more, he wasn't half bad.

Brown was good. For his first big match he was very good, less nerves than most the team.

I agree with Yappysnap though that I would take at least a point off all else and maybe two or three off some of the go to players that failed.

Im surprised Johnosn scored so well. He was porous in defence and no replacement for Croft as a lineout receiver and winger.

England backrow in general was a big problem (Robshaw aside whos tackling is getting Worsely like).

Scores seem a bit harsh on Hartley, at least he managed to throw the ball to england players which is a big improvement. But Hooker is a worry, bringing Mears is as ridiculous as Chuter being in the squad a year ago.

Just added the marks from The Rugby Paper where the England team got 88/150.

As a point of reference Wales got 91 and Ireland 95 - so Ireland were the best performers of the three teams!!

Ackford giving Marler a 4 is just ridiculous. His comments looked like he had written them before the game.

Do Ackford's ratings/views/articles count?

Ackford would think so, yes.

Biltong, who in your opinion is SA and England's best ex-professional player rugby writers and pundits and their worst respectively.

Actually, scratch that, this could make a topic

Johnson carried the ball for 2 metres... in 5 carries and missed 23% of his tackles (3 in 13) from ESPN. In test rugby thats just not good enough.

You won't see gaps for him to run into like the baa baa's match. Test blindsides need to be a viable lineout option, a good ball carrier and tough in defence... does Johnson qualify for even 1 out of those 3??? I doubt it.

As much as he winds people up I think Naas is very tactically astute. He has little alliance with any players, even his old bulls side. He tells it how it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfQxTr1yeTM&feature=g-u-u -- the destructive force that is Tuilagi ..the last one is my favourite , he puts JDV on his ass then gets swung about like a doll by Frans Steyn. Tuilagi is a beast though , im sure JDV will be in the ice bath today after the hammering he got

yappysnap wrote:Tuilagi got a 7?! I literally do not think he passed the ball once in the entire game, which as a 13 who's role is to bosh over players and then offload is a pretty big failing!

Other then that i'd probably agree with the rest of the scores except lowering Parlings and rasing the front rows a little.

And Farrell gets about a 3

To be fair Tuilagi's job isn't to pass. Barrit should be doing some more of that since he can't crash the ball up for toffy. Tuilagi and Joseph would be a much more effective combination, although both players tend to have defensive lapses

ChequeredJersey wrote:Biltong, who in your opinion is SA and England's best ex-professional player rugby writers and pundits and their worst respectively.

Actually, scratch that, this could make a topic

Well from my perspective I think our guys are quite fair on the opposition, they may be a little based at times, but not that often.

I like bobby Skinstad, he has a youthfulness with which he commentates.

In that second clip...what is the free kick for?

biltongbek wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Biltong, who in your opinion is SA and England's best ex-professional player rugby writers and pundits and their worst respectively.

Actually, scratch that, this could make a topic

Well from my perspective I think our guys are quite fair on the opposition, they may be a little based at times, but not that often.

I like bobby Skinstad, he has a youthfulness with which he commentates.

I quite like the old guy with the deep voice

Yeah, chick Henderson, he has been around for ages.

biltongbek wrote:Yeah, chick Henderson, he has been around for ages.

Not him, the other guy who wears glasses and has a big(ish) nose

i think his name is Matthew Pierce.

Ah i've got his name now Hugh Bladen. Absolute legend

Oh yes, but he didn't commentate yesterday.

I can't help but feel the ratings for Hartley are based more on people's dislike of him than on actual performance. Other than a stupid swinging arm tackle he hit his jumpers in the line out, got through a decent amount of work in defense without giving away penalties and showed up in the loose. You can't even blame him for when Johnson pushed the ball back with his hand in the scrum because the ball was fed straight into the second row. Even when he did the grubber kick the attack had been messed up by a poor pass (I think it was Farrell but not 100%).

He also looked like he was lost some weight which is a good thing as I thought he looked too chunky before his ban.

I'd go

Marler - 6
hartley - 6
cole - 7
botha - 6
Parling - 7
Johnson - 7
robshaw - 7
Morgan - 6
Youngs - 5
farrell - 5
ashton - 7
baritt - 7
tuilagi -8
foden - 7
Brown - 8.5

flankertye wrote:I'd go

Marler - 6
hartley - 6
cole - 7
botha - 6
Parling - 7 (6)
Johnson - 7 (6)
robshaw - 7
Morgan - 6 (5.5)
Youngs - 5
farrell - 5 (4)
ashton - 7 (6)
baritt - 7 (6)
tuilagi -8
foden - 7
Brown - 8.5

Changed a couple of yours mate to show my thoughts....

you're being harsh on Morgan and farrel mate.

flankertye wrote:I'd go

Marler - 6 (7)
hartley - 6
cole - 7 (6.5)
botha - 6
Parling - 7
Johnson - 7 (6.5)
robshaw - 7 (7.5)
Morgan - 6
Youngs - 5
farrell - 5
ashton - 7
baritt - 7
tuilagi -8 (7.5)
foden - 7
Brown - 8.5 (7.5)

and there's mine.

Biltong

Morgan has been brought in as a ball carrier...and baring one good effort was almost annonymous.

Farrell....cant pass...cant read the game...and cant run with the ball....but he can kick and tackle. Can you imagine Australia or NZ playing a fly half with those skills!!!?

I thought he was horrific yesterday...which in turn as the key position...makes barritt tuilagi and the rest of the backline poor.

Tbh i think England needed to utilise Morgan more. Have him run off the 10 and 12's and next to the rucks more. The only time he got the ball was from the kick offs and when he "intercepted" a Farrell pass!

Morgan ran out of energy on about the 20 minute mark. Farrell was poor in all but goal kicking.

They are both inexperienced (but you should not inflate a mark because of that) and will improve.

But Gowales how can that happen...when the players at 10 and 12 have no creativity....or attacking instincts...

To be fair Morgan has just come back from injury so it isn't because he is unfit per se

Exactly Geordie

You need to drop either Farrell and/or Barritt for Joseph and/or Flood

Morgan still performed, if he wasn't 100% fit, then there should be a pre planned time when he will come off.

gowales wrote:Exactly Geordie

You need to drop either Farrell and/or Barritt for Joseph and/or Flood

Well Barrit is out now, so why not Flood at 12?

biltongbek wrote:

gowales wrote:Exactly Geordie

You need to drop either Farrell and/or Barritt for Joseph and/or Flood

Well Barrit is out now, so why not Flood at 12?

No. Flood isn't a 12, we have 2 actual specialist 12s to back up Barritt.

Parling ran the lineout well, we were 7/7 at one point. Showed up well in the loose. As I said on another thread, Morgan needs to come on around 50-60, have Haskell do the hard work at the start.

No he's a 10 Bilt...i dont like him at 12...

flankertye wrote:Parling ran the lineout well, we were 7/7 at one point. Showed up well in the loose. As I said on another thread, Morgan needs to come on around 50-60, have Haskell do the hard work at the start.

Its funny...i thought he was AWOL in the loose....which for an ex back row player is not good....

Botha and Parling lacked physicality in the loose i thought, they were good in the set piece but yea you need a big man in there.

OK, then how about this.

9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. Ashton
12. Joseph
13. Tuilagi
14. Foden
15 Brown

Joseph doesn't play 12 and I wouldn't be happy with him doing it for his (in practice) test debut at altitude in South Africa. An argument could be made to move Tuilagi in to 12 (not one I would necessarily agree with) but not Joseph.

Fine, I am really trying to help here, obviously I don't know enough of English rugby to make any usefull contribution here, so I'll go off into the sunset now ( he says whilst crawling away into a corner feeling very sorry for himself)

n'awww it's ok Biltong. Jesus christ I wish we had Garvey or Attwood.
We have a good/potentially world class front row. But we don't have enough grunt in the second row.

biltongbek wrote:Fine, I am really trying to help here, obviously I don't know enough of English rugby to make any usefull contribution here, so I'll go off into the sunset now ( he says whilst crawling away into a corner feeling very sorry for himself)

Thanks for the input Biltong. I'd rather play Allen at 12 to keep the combos from club level. Farrell on the bench as safety

I've left the building, can't see a word you guys are saying.

Just one last thought. Jean de Villiers is not a 13, but fot the good of the team he has been put there and it paid off.

Sometimes you need to think outside the box.

biltongbek wrote:I've left the building, can't see a word you guys are saying.

Just one last thought. Jean de Villiers is not a 13, but fot the good of the team he has been put there and it paid off.

Sometimes you need to think outside the box.

Yeah, like Foden at wing. But I don't think is the time or place to play JJ or Manu at 12

Fine, no more ideas from my side.