Ian Bell recalled to ODI Squad

ODI squad Alastair Cook (capt) James Anderson, Jonny Bairstow, Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Craig Kieswetter, Eoin Morgan, Samit Patel, Graeme Swann, Jonathan Trott

T20 squad Stuart Broad (capt), Jonny Bairstow, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Danny Briggs, Jos Buttler, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Alex Hales, Craig Kieswetter, Eoin Morgan, Samit Patel, Graeme Swann


http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-west-indies-2012/content/current/story/568090.html

Good move, in my opinion. Too fine a player to be sat out.

Interesting. Goes along with my initial suggestion and, looking at the squad, I would assert that he will open.

Probably Cook, Bell, Trott, Morgan, Bopara, Bairstow/ Kieswetter, Bresnan/ Patel/ Dernbach, Broad, Swann, Finn, Anderson. I would pick Bresnan ahead of Dernbach, though I quite like having two spinners in my one-day side and so, if the pitches aren't seamer-friendly, Patel could get the slot. Finn simply has to play in one-dayers, following his efforts in India and the UAE.

For T20 I guess it will be Kieswetter, Hales, Bopara, Morgan, Bairstow, Buttler, Bresnan/ Patel, Broad, Swann, Finn, Dernbach.

A pretty consistent selection and, in my view, a pretty good one. A little disappointing that Buttler misses out on the ODIs but he hasn't set the world alight this year yet.

The T20 squad was predictable (or at least I predicted it in the T") Squad thread )

As to the main squad I can see them picking both Bairstow and Kieswetter more often than not. Reason being that a front 5 containing Cook, Trott, Bell & Bopara could be a touch one-paced in scoring terms.

this would then mean Bell or Bopara to open with Cook, as I agree that Kieswetter is more likely to be down the order. Does he do this for Somerset much?

I think that finn and Broad are definite starters, then perm 1 or 2 (depending on conditions) from Bresnan, Dernbach and Anderson. Much also depends on whether Bopara is fit to bowl.

LondonTiger wrote:The T20 squad was predictable (or at least I predicted it in the T") Squad thread )

As to the main squad I can see them picking both Bairstow and Kieswetter more often than not. Reason being that a front 5 containing Cook, Trott, Bell & Bopara could be a touch one-paced in scoring terms.

this would then mean Bell or Bopara to open with Cook, as I agree that Kieswetter is more likely to be down the order. Does he do this for Somerset much?

I think that finn and Broad are definite starters, then perm 1 or 2 (depending on conditions) from Bresnan, Dernbach and Anderson. Much also depends on whether Bopara is fit to bowl.

I think Bopara is fit to bowl - he has been bowling for Essex.

Kieswetter has batted down the order in the past for Somerset, though I do feel that he is better off opening. However, I also feel that Kieswetter isn't the type of player England need at the top.

We need to remember that we have two new balls in one-day cricket, and so scoring at 8 an over in the powerplay isn't really needed. Bell and Bopara (and Cook of late) can all score pretty quickly. And I'd back Bell to go on and score 100s more often than Kieswetter, even if his ODI career to date doesn't indicate that.

Bopara's form in the UAE, and the fact he hasn't played in the Tests, mean he will almost certainly play. There is an outside chance that he could open, if England are slightly worried about strike rates. But I personally believe that, for England, number 5 is a very good place for him.

Fists of Fury wrote:Good move, in my opinion. Too fine a player to be sat out.

Average record though. Lucky man, me thinks.

Stella wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Good move, in my opinion. Too fine a player to be sat out.

Average record though. Lucky man, me thinks.

And I won't deny that this has to be a last chance. If he doesn't crack it in these 8 ODIs, Carberry is waiting in the wings. And by the end of the season others might have staked a better claim.

No new young batsmen selected for England for the ODI matches. That is very disappointing. These ODI matches could have given valuable experience for the likes of James Taylor, Alex Hales, James Vince.

gboycottnut wrote:No new young batsmen selected for England for the ODI matches. That is very disappointing. These ODI matches could have given valuable experience for the likes of James Taylor, Alex Hales, James Vince.

Going over old ground a bit. I think Taylor might have earned a shot, but on the other hand there isn't really a place available really. Hales and Vince simply haven't produced the results to demand selection.

Hummm...

Bell is a quality player that's for sure. However he is mostly ill-suited to ODIs. I say this because his main scoring areas are through third-man (with that lovely late cut), through cover-point (either cut or cover-drive off either foot) and past square-leg. All these areas are cut off in ODIs apart from at the start, so that his main boundary options only yield singles. Moreover he doesn't have the natural ability that a Morgan or a Hussey does to nurdle and scamper; this is not a criticism of Bell, he is a fantastic player, but rather like Prior a high percentage of his runs come in boundaries, and a lot in similar areas (all this is perceived, I don't have the stats to back it up).

That all being, his only realistic position in ODIs is to open, where he can use the PP classically and his boundary options remain boundary options. This has also been England's view for a while (at least going back to the dreadful 2007 WC) but Bell has seemingly struggled to up his scoring rate to a desired level without getting out.

England do have problems with the balance of their ODI side: it is clear they want a genuine batsman opening the batting and not just someone who can play the odd cameo, and Pietersen's retirement opened up a spot. I would personally have gone for Taylor, but it may be time to see what Bell can offer once more.

Morgan for me is a spot too high at 4, but England clearly believe he can adapt to that as Bevan and later Symonds did for Australia. Bopara has done well since coming back into the side, and deserves an extended run at 5. Bairstow is a good 6, but may make way for Kieswetter (or Bairstow may have to keep) - Patel IMO isn't good enough for 10 overs so it then has to be 5 genuine bowlers, with Bresnan at 7. Dernbach's success in UAE gives him the nod over Anderson, the others pick themselves.

Bops and Patel can share 10 or more and let four others do the rest. That way, a decent player can bat at seven.

Stella wrote:Bops and Patel can share 10 or more and let four others do the rest. That way, a decent player can bat at seven.

I think Bresnan is good enough for seven in ODIs. He certainly classes as decent.

Shelsey93 wrote:

Stella wrote:Bops and Patel can share 10 or more and let four others do the rest. That way, a decent player can bat at seven.

I think Bresnan is good enough for seven in ODIs. He certainly classes as decent.

Not for me. Good in certain situations but not if we're 100-5. I would prefer to see Somebody like Kieswetter/Buttler at 7.

Stella wrote:Bops and Patel can share 10 or more and let four others do the rest.

I don't think they can. Not consistently and effectively with the way the ODI game has evolved. They are both good for 3-4 overs but unlikely to get wickets and then the batsmen will get used to them; given they will have to get through 10 overs in the 20 overs outside PP between 10 and 40 I think it is too easy to sit back, wait for them and then pick them off.

Unless it is a very dry wicket, in which case they can both be effective in their own right.

Patel and Bops are both decent back ups. Patel especially and he would probably get through 10 himself in the right conditions.

Having Patel and Bopara in the same teamand Bresnan at seven makes no sense, at least imo.

i personally wouldnt have bell in one day squad...good player yes, but 1 century in 108 matches...

also its time to move on and let some youngsters have a go.

Stella wrote:Patel and Bops are both decent back ups. Patel especially and he would probably get through 10 himself in the right conditions.

Having Patel and Bopara in the same teamand Bresnan at seven makes no sense, at least imo.

Patel can get through 10 on a helpful track. But on a batting wicket, as we have seen time and time again he is far too easy to milk and just lets England meander through the middle overs. Bopara is very much a part-timer, a poor man's Collingwood (with the ball).

I don't think in ODIs you should be trying to make up 10 overs. Unless you have a genuine all-rounder (like Watson, or Angelo Matthews, or Kallis) you should probably play 5 bowlers.

Then pick your best 6 batsmen (including wicket-keeper) - whether or not they bowl should then be irrelevant, but you want at least one bowling option in them. At the moment Patel is not one of England's best 6 batsmen, so doesn't make the side. Bopara probably is, so does. That he can chip in with some overs is an added bonus.

I disagree ever so slightly with Mike's verdict on Patel. I believe that, like Mike Yardy did for a short period of time, he can bowl a pretty effective 10 overs as a second spinner in the short form of the game. Even in England.

I said earlier that I like having two spinners in my one-day side, even in only moderately helpful conditions. My reason for that is that if a batsman is having difficulties against spin, or Swann does well, or we want to save Swann for later but want a spinner, we're left with no option but pace. Of course, if you're playing on a green seamer those situations are less likely and you back your four pacemen.

Bresnan certainly does not have the shots to bat at 7 in ODIs. Patel's ODI bowling record isnt much worse than Bresnan's.

Good comparison with Yardy (I think Yardy was marginally a better bowler, but very marginally): I never thought he was good enough for 10 overs per innings either. Two Yardys/Patels (e.g. Yardy and Collingwood) and you may just be ok, but Bopara isn't as good as Collingwood. The problem is really with Patel you are getting consistently 0-50 or 1-50 in those middle overs, which IMO is too easy for the batsmen: they should have to work for their runs; with Swann operating then also, it means the batsmen don't have to take risks against England's premium bowler, because the runs are flowing easily from the other end.

I agree with Shelsey about 2 spinners ideally, or a medium-pacer who takes pace off the ball by bowling cutters (someone like Watson or Dan Christian or Matthews) in the middle overs - England's attack is a bit one-paced, Dernbach's variations are more use at the death than in the middle.

Shanky, to be fair to Bres he bowls when the batsmen are looking to smash it usually. I agree he's not really a no 7, but of the two options I would pick the extra bowler in ODIs (and do the opposite in tests!).

Bell is a doubt, apparently. Hopefully he recovers from whatever it is that he's picked up!

Fists of Fury wrote:Bell is a doubt, apparently. Hopefully he recovers from whatever it is that he's picked up!

I saw that! Blow on the chin, and just as I was trying to promote my blog entry about how he should be a good one-day opener!

I guess if he isn't fit Kieswetter will open and Bairstow will slot in at 6. Otherwise, given recent weather, I expect Cook, Bell, Trott, Bopara, Morgan, Kieswetter, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Finn, Anderson. So no Dernbach, Patel or Bairstow.

I wrote a piece for the Huffington Post about Bell's selection making sense, too. Hope we haven't doomed it.

Imagine he will be ok, though.

Fists of Fury wrote:I wrote a piece for the Huffington Post about Bell's selection making sense, too. Hope we haven't doomed it.

Imagine he will be ok, though.

It is worrying that there is a lack of a talented world class batsmen around the 19-22 year old range who look ready to step up from a county level and do well at an international level. The last such batsman we had in this age range was David Gower back in 1978.

gboycottnut wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:I wrote a piece for the Huffington Post about Bell's selection making sense, too. Hope we haven't doomed it.

Imagine he will be ok, though.

It is worrying that there is a lack of a talented world class batsmen around the 19-22 year old range who look ready to step up from a county level and do well at an international level. The last such batsman we had in this age range was David Gower back in 1978.

Plenty of them around - Stokes, Bairstow, Buttler, Taylor to name just a few. Maybe not "world class" yet but the potential to be so in a few years time. How many people can you name that have been genuinely world class at that sort of age? Tendulkar, Lara maybe, Bradman probably was, Gavaskar, any others? But they seldom exist. The world class players we have today - de Villiers, Bell, Pietersen, Ponting, Clarke - all either came into the side in their mid-twenties or took a few years to recognise their immense talent.

When did Alastair Cook make his Test debut? 21, 22? And he's fairly useful now. We have lots of batsmen coming through who look like they could have the potential to succeed and Test cricket, it is just a blessing that out line up is so strong at the moment that they haven't had to be thrown in this early in their careers.

Shelsey93 wrote:

gboycottnut wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:I wrote a piece for the Huffington Post about Bell's selection making sense, too. Hope we haven't doomed it.

Imagine he will be ok, though.

It is worrying that there is a lack of a talented world class batsmen around the 19-22 year old range who look ready to step up from a county level and do well at an international level. The last such batsman we had in this age range was David Gower back in 1978.

Plenty of them around - Stokes, Bairstow, Buttler, Taylor to name just a few. Maybe not "world class" yet but the potential to be so in a few years time. How many people can you name that have been genuinely world class at that sort of age? Tendulkar, Lara maybe, Bradman probably was, Gavaskar, any others? But they seldom exist. The world class players we have today - de Villiers, Bell, Pietersen, Ponting, Clarke - all either came into the side in their mid-twenties or took a few years to recognise their immense talent.

Quite. Dravid was probably world class very young as well (although not always recognised). Hussey another late bloomer, Younus Khan, etc...

As said, plenty of young batsmen knocking on the door, although whether any of them are test class we won"t know until they get their chance I guess.