Golden Boy Promotions: The Blatant Push for a PPV Star

By announcing the Ortiz vs Canelo fight before business had been taken care of in the ring exposed several things about GBP.

Firstly, they were naive, and arrogant to think that a fighter who has mental issues in the ring, and had had 9 months out of it prior to the fight, would walk through a very game and live opponent. Although Ortiz was a clear favorite to win this was very silly, IMO.

Also, the way they have been so public about Canelo's next fight in the hope that it adds to the promotional hype, is only diluting the event. I admit that this is not solely their fault. Tragedy and injuries have played a part, but GBP are using their flagship fighter's name so much, it's like they are at dinner trying impress a fickle girl. It feels blatant, and well, amateurish, if honest.

You can go back a little further and look at the first B-Hop vs Dawson fight. If GBP couldn't realize that B-Hop wouldn't sell as much on the west coast than the east after years of watching/ promoting him, then what the hell do they think all this posturing for a fight they haven't secured is going to achieve? When they make these mistakes it just seems so glaring.

The stubborn factor is also becoming a problem, and will only, in my mind, make the Chavez Jr vs Sergio Martinez fight more of a sure thing to happen. As much as it pains me to admit, Bob Arum has won the date and the day. He is not going to back down and if GBP go ahead and fight on that date then they will be the financial losers, i think.

Chavez vs Martinez has been bubbling for a long time, and fans these days must pine for a sure thing, surely? In boxing terms, looking at both fights, it is the Top Rank promotion that has the more certainty, and therefore the better chance of being a huge hit. If GBP do go ahead, then they will need a stacked under card and a genuine live opponent. Cotto might swings things in their favor, but that match-up seems unlikely. The rest of the fights out there are good on paper: Lara, Trout etc, but these aren't big enough names to warrant the PPV or rivalry with Top Rank, IMO.

For me the recent problems started with the Khan vs Peterson loss. Although Lamont was later found to be cheating, allowing Amir to say he told us so, the way GBP and their fighter moaned post-fight was not good. It was sour grapes, and only the PED issue saved them some face. It was so obvious this was a PPV issue for them, their next star had been beaten!

Berto vs Ortiz resulted in another PED issue, and again this is not GBP fault. Although you could say that their company should take testing more seriously, but still, Berto was found to be cheating. This meant the date was ruined, and a late replacement needed. And we all saw what happened there.

I don't know, GBP seem to be losing their touch for making exciting fights, and are blatantly pushing for their next PPV star. I wont watch the Canelo fight live unless the opponent is live. Let's just hope that they move the date, take some time, and come up with a legitimate challenge and a legitimate promotion. Alluding to network television and making comments about "very exciting possibilities" is not helping them.

Reach us when you know something, GBP.

Yeah the whole promotion was a farce. They were both pooling from the same fanbase on the same PPV date. The Top rank, GBP feud is another nail in the boxing coffin. To think they would compete on the same date instead of maximising boxing viewership and revenue by having the 2 biggest mexican boxers in the world fight on different dates.

It makes me think that never mind Floyd v Pacman, you can now add Canelo v Chavez to the list of fights that will never happen.

Once again good stuff bro!

Bob Arum warned GBP about this when the Bantam final rematch between Mares and Agbecko was scheduled for the same night as Cotto v Margarito. Arum was not happy and told GBP he wouldn't forget it. Payback is a bitch.

GBP are desperate for a PPV star and more importantly desperate for someone to scalp Mayweather and take his place as the #1 draw in the sport. Their pushing the wrong fighter imo.

Canelo doesn't speak English which isn't good for PPV sales. It stops a lot of the hype/promotional stuff being any good. The face off would be awful with a translator and no one wants to watch 24/7 and read subtitles most of the time.

Canelos a good fighter but I don't think he is boxing next star either one of Broner, Russell Jr or Mares will be imo. I would tip Broner because he has the swagger and a style that TV loves.

Can we stop this nonsense about Ortiz quitting. He had a badly broken jaw and could not continue. Nothing to do with mentality horse manure.

Also regarding Canelo. The kid is a great talent. But please lets not refer to him as a world champion until he has beaten a live opponent. He may even be the best in the division right now and give Floyd a thorough beating, but his best opponent is Rhodes and that does not make a world champion.

So Ortiz has an injury and gets out and he's not a quitter but Vitali does the same and he's a quitter?

Who mentioned Ortiz quitting or Canelos 'World' title. Their are worse and less deserving champs at 154lbs than Canelo. Trout, Bundrage, Konecny and Baysangurov all hold belts at 154lbs.

So Ortiz has an injury and gets out and he's not a quitter but Vitali does the same and he's a quitter?

Who mentioned Ortiz quitting or Canelos 'World' title. Their are worse and less deserving champs at 154lbs than Canelo. Trout, Bundrage, Konecny and Baysangurov all hold belts at 154lbs.

Perspective dear man perspective. When Boxer A is being held up for bravery and Boxer B is being criticised for cowardice, you have to take a close look at Boxer A and apply the same principles Boxer B.

For the record I also referred to Cotto as a quitter when he took the knee. Think about it.

I don't think Ortiz quit and I don't think Vitali quit they both had injuries.

Cotto did quit imo Ivan Calderon did the same thing against Giovanni Segura. He wanted no more and got out. That's quitting. Unfortunately for Ortiz he did quit against Maidana so it will always be held against him.

Its strange that people question his bravery. Yes he did quit against Maidana. Duran quit, Cotto quit and others have quit in the past. Yet none of them have their mentality questioned. Some muppets are still claiming that Ortiz could have continued. Some are now body language experts to boot.

I've heard the answers that Cotto et al have answered their gut check question so can be given a pass. Well so has Ortiz. Against Peterson and especially berto (juiced?). My issue about Ortiz is not his bravery but his almost manana attitude towards winning and losing. He seems not to give a damn whatever happens.

Most people who say he could ahve continued would have been off work for a month with a broken jaw like that but they expect a guy to take punches.

Couldn't agree more after the Floyd fight he was smiling! He doesn't have a winners desire. Losing doesn't seem to bother him. The best hate losing it angers them and a lot of the time makes them better. Not Ortiz though he doesn't have the mentality to be a top fighter.

Thing to remember is that 95% of fighters don't have the toughness of an Arthur abraham so shouldn't be held against them. Any other fighter and nothing gets said but because it's Ortiz there were question marks at the time which have since been answered.

Im all for the glory of the sport and going out on your shield but if someone broke my jaw and told me to get back in the ring and get punched in it by a rugged slugger i'm sure I would quit....really Ortiz corner should have pulled him out when they could tell he was injured and wanted no more, allow him to save face a bit

azania wrote:Perspective dear man perspective. When Boxer A is being held up for bravery and Boxer B is being criticised for cowardice, you have to take a close look at Boxer A and apply the same principles Boxer B.

For the record I also referred to Cotto as a quitter when he took the knee. Think about it.

Priceless.

David Price - Avoiding decent opposition

Erislandy Lara - Avoided by decent oppoistion

Both fighting limited opponents at the same stage of their pro career but yet Az has one rule for one and one for another.

Hypocrite

People just don't like Ortiz because of his nice guy attitude. I think he seems like a genuinley nice guy and the only blotch in my eyes is the way he ended the Maidana fight. He should have went down and stayed down instead of walking around looking like he was close to tears.

I hate his attitude he doesn't care if he wins or loses. Smiling after being sparked out by Floyd as if he was just happy to be their was embarrassing.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:

azania wrote:Perspective dear man perspective. When Boxer A is being held up for bravery and Boxer B is being criticised for cowardice, you have to take a close look at Boxer A and apply the same principles Boxer B.

For the record I also referred to Cotto as a quitter when he took the knee. Think about it.

Priceless.

David Price - Avoiding decent opposition

Erislandy Lara - Avoided by decent oppoistion

Both fighting limited opponents at the same stage of their pro career but yet Az has one rule for one and one for another.

Hypocrite

Dear Lord. Is it special case or special needs. Which is it Dee?

When I refer to Price I more often that not say quite clearly that Maloney will not put him in against better opposition.

When I say Canelo is avoiding Lara, I more often than not say that GBP will not put him in against Lara. In fact I have said on another thread that Canelo will fight whoever is put in front of him because he believes he will win. I don't know what your problem is but I can refer you to the doctor I saw. He helped me quite a bit.

azania wrote:Perspective dear man perspective. When Boxer A is being held up for bravery and Boxer B is being criticised for cowardice, you have to take a close look at Boxer A and apply the same principles Boxer B.

For the record I also referred to Cotto as a quitter when he took the knee. Think about it.

Unless I've missed something, I still don't understand how you can criticise Vitali defend Ortiz for doing exactly the same thing?

azania wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:

azania wrote:Perspective dear man perspective. When Boxer A is being held up for bravery and Boxer B is being criticised for cowardice, you have to take a close look at Boxer A and apply the same principles Boxer B.

For the record I also referred to Cotto as a quitter when he took the knee. Think about it.

Priceless.

David Price - Avoiding decent opposition

Erislandy Lara - Avoided by decent oppoistion

Both fighting limited opponents at the same stage of their pro career but yet Az has one rule for one and one for another.

Hypocrite

Dear Lord. Is it special case or special needs. Which is it Dee?

When I refer to Price I more often that not say quite clearly that Maloney will not put him in against better opposition.

When I say Canelo is avoiding Lara, I more often than not say that GBP will not put him in against Lara. In fact I have said on another thread that Canelo will fight whoever is put in front of him because he believes he will win. I don't know what your problem is but I can refer you to the doctor I saw. He helped me quite a bit.

That's squirming Az and your usual trick of hiding behind the promoter.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:Perspective dear man perspective. When Boxer A is being held up for bravery and Boxer B is being criticised for cowardice, you have to take a close look at Boxer A and apply the same principles Boxer B.

For the record I also referred to Cotto as a quitter when he took the knee. Think about it.

Unless I've missed something, I still don't understand how you can criticise Vitali defend Ortiz for doing exactly the same thing?

Yep. You've missed something.

Not squirming at all TH. When all and sundry were criticising Khan for 'appealing' the peterson decision, I said it was being done by GBP. Its the same principle here. I don't criticise boxers or accuse them of ducking but rather their managers for not wanting to take any risk. Boxers (elite or very good ones) generally believe they are the best however deluded they may be. They don't usually duck but their managers are more cautious.

Why shouldn't goldenboy push for a star

They know that floyd might not fight at all after his prison sentence and after the Forbes rich list promoters know that boxers can still bring in more money than any other sport

They may be making it messy for themselves but there needs to be stars when cotto, mayweather and pacquiao retire and atm it seems like they think Canelo, broner and khan (from goldenboys stable) are the most likely to take over and one day bring in the big $$ promoters want

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:Perspective dear man perspective. When Boxer A is being held up for bravery and Boxer B is being criticised for cowardice, you have to take a close look at Boxer A and apply the same principles Boxer B.

For the record I also referred to Cotto as a quitter when he took the knee. Think about it.

Unless I've missed something, I still don't understand how you can criticise Vitali defend Ortiz for doing exactly the same thing?

Yep. You've missed something.

At the risk of asking you to repeat yourself, can you explain why Vit 'quitting' on his stool with a career threatening shoulder injury is different to Ortiz 'quitting' on his stool with a suspected broken jaw? Both serious injuries, both fighters/their corners made sensible decisions.

Yet you have been highly critical of Vit for it in the past.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Why shouldn't goldenboy push for a star

They know that floyd might not fight at all after his prison sentence and after the Forbes rich list promoters know that boxers can still bring in more money than any other sport

They may be making it messy for themselves but there needs to be stars when cotto, mayweather and pacquiao retire and atm it seems like they think Canelo, broner and khan (from goldenboys stable) are the most likely to take over and one day bring in the big $$ promoters want

I'm not saying that they shouldn't push for a star. I'm all for more boxing stars. But please don't try and sell me a mini and call it a Bentley.

Az Maloney has been interviewed in the past after Prices fights and apologising to the crowd after an early knockout and STATING that he is finding it near impossible to find his decent opposition due to decent heavyweights all gunning for the K-Bros.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:Perspective dear man perspective. When Boxer A is being held up for bravery and Boxer B is being criticised for cowardice, you have to take a close look at Boxer A and apply the same principles Boxer B.

For the record I also referred to Cotto as a quitter when he took the knee. Think about it.

Unless I've missed something, I still don't understand how you can criticise Vitali defend Ortiz for doing exactly the same thing?

Yep. You've missed something.

At the risk of asking you to repeat yourself, can you explain why Vit 'quitting' on his stool with a career threatening shoulder injury is different to Ortiz 'quitting' on his stool with a suspected broken jaw? Both serious injuries, both fighters/their corners made sensible decisions.

Yet you have been highly critical of Vit for it in the past.

The point is, Vit quit. No criticism from the same very people who are now criticisng Ortiz. When I raised the issue of Vit quitting, all manner of reasons were given (all justified) but now people are body language experts when it cpmes to Ortiz when they say they could tell he was looking for a way out. Incredible. What they're actually saying is that Ortiz placed his jaw in the exact position where if hit, multiple fractures would occur resulting in him quitting. I mean, get real. If I mention Vit quitting, those sam,e people will justify that.

Thanks Sugar!

Gang, i think what needs to be considered is if the following things were to do with Ortiz wanting out of the fight or having a broken jaw:

1. The hitting behind the head.
2. The trying to hug his opponent.
3. Apologizing to his opponent.
4. Pushing his opponent, roughing him up illegally and then again hitting him behind the head after being told to 'relax' by the referee.

The doubt i have is this: did Victor do these things before the jaw break? and if so, did he do these things because he did not want to be in the ring that night? And did he want out when he realized that Lopez was taking his shots, not well, as he looked staggered, but he was firing back and leaving his own mark.

Now, if Victor had a broken jaw before that killer left landed in the final round, and managed to make it that far, i take back my initial feeling of him being a quitter.

But, if he didn't, then the signs he wanted out were there, in my opinion.

Now, not coming out for the next round when suffering with a broken jaw or a broken shoulder are both equally valid (and sensible) reasons not to continue fighting. They make you a smart boxer not a scared one, IMO.

It's the series of events i am interested in. Vitali was clearly winning his fight.

azania wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Why shouldn't goldenboy push for a star

They know that floyd might not fight at all after his prison sentence and after the Forbes rich list promoters know that boxers can still bring in more money than any other sport

They may be making it messy for themselves but there needs to be stars when cotto, mayweather and pacquiao retire and atm it seems like they think Canelo, broner and khan (from goldenboys stable) are the most likely to take over and one day bring in the big $$ promoters want

I'm not saying that they shouldn't push for a star. I'm all for more boxing stars. But please don't try and sell me a mini and call it a Bentley.

Yea that wasn't aimed at you but the original post, your taking about ortiz and him not quiting and I didn't say anything about that in my post

Poinrts 1-4 are silly reasons to say a fighter is looking for a way out. I mean really stupid. That stuff happens all the time in many fihts. I think you are looking for reasons to justify your opinion that Ortiz was looking for a way out.

The kid had a badly broken jaw and was clearly winning the fight.

Audley carried on with one arm, why couldn't Vit?

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Az Maloney has been interviewed in the past after Prices fights and apologising to the crowd after an early knockout and STATING that he is finding it near impossible to find his decent opposition due to decent heavyweights all gunning for the K-Bros.

This is the problem I have. When a promoter starts saying stuff like that, my first thought is; "why is this lying bar steward lying to me". Promoters the world over will always say that when referring to their prospects.

Price is no where near ready to take on guys at A grade in the HW division regardless of how poor the division is. He's still a baby and guy like Sexton are on his level for now. He should move up slowly.

Abraham carried on with a broken jaw why couldn't Ortiz?

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:Perspective dear man perspective. When Boxer A is being held up for bravery and Boxer B is being criticised for cowardice, you have to take a close look at Boxer A and apply the same principles Boxer B.

For the record I also referred to Cotto as a quitter when he took the knee. Think about it.

Unless I've missed something, I still don't understand how you can criticise Vitali defend Ortiz for doing exactly the same thing?

Yep. You've missed something.

At the risk of asking you to repeat yourself, can you explain why Vit 'quitting' on his stool with a career threatening shoulder injury is different to Ortiz 'quitting' on his stool with a suspected broken jaw? Both serious injuries, both fighters/their corners made sensible decisions.

Yet you have been highly critical of Vit for it in the past.

The point is, Vit quit. No criticism from the same very people who are now criticisng Ortiz. When I raised the issue of Vit quitting, all manner of reasons were given (all justified) but now people are body language experts when it cpmes to Ortiz when they say they could tell he was looking for a way out. Incredible. What they're actually saying is that Ortiz placed his jaw in the exact position where if hit, multiple fractures would occur resulting in him quitting. I mean, get real. If I mention Vit quitting, those sam,e people will justify that.

Ok, so you've explained how people's responses have differed, but avoided answering my question. What is the difference between what Vit did and what Oritz did?

TH

No difference.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Abraham carried on with a broken jaw why couldn't Ortiz?

AA is a nut. Plus his jaw was only slightly fractured. Still a nut though. As was Ali.

it always makes me laugh when people criticise people for quitting, just imagaine you were a prospect 5 fights into your career and badly hurt your wrist and continued to fight on, too afraid that you'd get called a quitter and permanently damaged it, then were unable to continue as a fighter. Would everyone be happy and say "what a warrior, he can't fight no more but at least he went out on his shield"

I know what i'd do, I hate losing at anything but if i was badly hurt i'd call it a day and hopefully be able to fight another day and be able to earn a living

Spot on tommy.

azania wrote:TH

No difference.

Ok, so you would level the same criticism at Ortiz to that which you level at Vitali then?

It's a tough one isn't it. I mean the definition of a quitter, they always quit when suffering and we could all say he or she saved hurting himself themselves for life.

How do we define a quitter in terms of just outright not wanting it. Zab Judah? He's a quitter right? Against Khan he quit, and against Mayweather he tried to by low blowing him so badly MY nuts protruded. He wanted out and hoped for a DQ.

It's a tough one isn't it. I mean the definition of a quitter, they always quit when suffering and we could all say he or she saved hurting himself themselves for life.

How do we define a quitter in terms of just outright not wanting it. Zab Judah? He's a quitter right? Against Khan he quit, and against Mayweather he tried to by low blowing him so badly MY nuts protruded. He wanted out and hoped for a DQ.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:TH

No difference.

Ok, so you would level the same criticism at Ortiz to that which you level at Vitali then?

Yep. One gets a pass whilst the other attracts body language experts.

davidemore wrote:It's a tough one isn't it. I mean the definition of a quitter, they always quit when suffering and we could all say he or she saved hurting himself themselves for life.

How do we define a quitter in terms of just outright not wanting it. Zab Judah? He's a quitter right? Against Khan he quit, and against Mayweather he tried to by low blowing him so badly MY nuts protruded. He wanted out and hoped for a DQ.

You're not in the ring taking a beating. I've heard boxers say that being in the ring is the lonliest place on earth. Once you step into the ring you show loads of balls. I don't like calling guys who do that quitters. They are doing somethinig I will never do at a pro level.

Do you know what Judah hoped for? Did Duran hope for a DQ when he punched Buchanan low?

Duran didn't deliberately hit Buchanan low having received a boxing lesson for the past 6 rounds, he did it out of pure frustration.

The argument that no fighter is in the ring to take a beating is only fair to a point because the reality is some degree of acceptance of risk to your health is very much inevitable in boxing and is pretty much the dictionary definition of an occupational hazard, because if we think about it sensibly nobody would ever box because putting yourself into a situation where a highly trained athlete attempts to punch you in the head frequently and extremely heavily is a pretty dumb thing to consider doing. As such some degree of physical pain and inconvenience goes with the turf.

However the point at which an acceptable level of pain or physical discomfort reaches the point of foolhardy is largely a subjective opinion. Given this nobody should be criticised for either condoning or condemning Ortiz’ actions but given this is not the first time one of his fights has ended in less than satisfactory circumstances it can hardly be a surprise on anyone’s part that some people are a little less than forgiving.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Duran didn't deliberately hit Buchanan low having received a boxing lesson for the past 6 rounds, he did it out of pure frustration.

I'm not disputing that. Judah could have whacked Floyd in the nuts out of frustration also. But when someone claims he whacked Floyd to get a DQ its patent nonsense. More likely he was frustrated also due to the schooling he was getting.

rowley wrote:The argument that no fighter is in the ring to take a beating is only fair to a point because the reality is some degree of acceptance of risk to your health is very much inevitable in boxing and is pretty much the dictionary definition of an occupational hazard, because if we think about it sensibly nobody would ever box because putting yourself into a situation where a highly trained athlete attempts to punch you in the head frequently and extremely heavily is a pretty dumb thing to consider doing. As such some degree of physical pain and inconvenience goes with the turf.

However the point at which an acceptable level of pain or physical discomfort reaches the point of foolhardy is largely a subjective opinion. Given this nobody should be criticised for either condoning or condemning Ortiz’ actions but given this is not the first time one of his fights has ended in less than satisfactory circumstances it can hardly be a surprise on anyone’s part that some people are a little less than forgiving.

Take it fight as it comes. The ending was unsatisfactory but no worse than the ending in the Quigg fight. Difference is a broken jaw is harder to spot that a bad cut.

I meant Judah did it out of frustration, it was one of the few times when Duran didn't deliberately aim low.

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:TH

No difference.

Ok, so you would level the same criticism at Ortiz to that which you level at Vitali then?

Yep. One gets a pass whilst the other attracts body language experts.

So you are equally critical of Ortiz as your are of Vit then? Just seems like you're actually defending Ortiz.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I meant Judah did it out of frustration, it was one of the few times when Duran didn't deliberately aim low.

I wouldn't put it past Duran to have aimed there. It looked pretty deliberate to me. Didn't matter as he was light years ahead.

In slow motion you can see the referee deviate the punch south in the confusion of the end of the round.

azania wrote:Can we stop this nonsense about Ortiz quitting. He had a badly broken jaw and could not continue. Nothing to do with mentality horse manure.

Also regarding Canelo. The kid is a great talent. But please lets not refer to him as a world champion until he has beaten a live opponent. He may even be the best in the division right now and give Floyd a thorough beating, but his best opponent is Rhodes and that does not make a world champion.

Ortiz quit. Poor show from Ortiz. No excuses. As far as I am aware, most boxers enter into a fight thinking that a loss will cost them everything so do all in their power to win. Ortiz failed the gut check in that fight.

So basically all boxers who don't continue after being injured fail their gut checks. Including those who take a knee after sustaining a beating.