Fighters That Could Take Tyson In The Prime

I was watching this amazing video of Tyson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QACELH3www and it got me thinking, is there anyone that could have actually taken Tyson in the prime? Obviously people would put someone like Muhammed Ali, but in complete honesty I think he would actually have taken him, just my personal opinion... But do you guys think that there would have been a Heavyweight on the planet that could have taken Pre-Prison and before he began cutting his training like Pre-Buster Douglas? Because in my personal opinion there isn't a fighter on the planet that could have honestly taken him, his pure aggression and power was enough to take out a lot of guys in the later stages, but when you mixed that with his athletisicm and ability to not get caught whilst coming in was just purely incredible, I would love to see Haye have taken on Tyson in his prime, personally I think you need to have a guy that has speed and 1 punch knockout power, enough to rock him back (I know what you're thinking what about Muhammed Ali?) But I just don't see it happening. I don't think Haye would beat him by the way but give him a decent fight. Or even a Valuev don't forget how big Valuev was and how much of a small Heavyweight Tyson was, could he have even reached his head!? :O

Dempsey
Marciano
Louis
Ali
Foreman
Holmes
Holyfield
Lewis

To name a few. Not saying they all beat him everytime, or that he wouldn't give anyone of them a good fight, but they are all more than capable of beating him in his "prime" for a variety of different reasons. A peak Tyson would have destroyed David Haye though.

You lost me when you started talking about Tyson taking other great Heavyweights out in the 'latter stages.' I'm not sure how you've come to this conclusion; Tyson's stamina, or rather lack of it, was one of his weak points. He was a superb four to six round fighter, but always looked half the man after that point, with his punches lacking the same power and snap they had in the early stages and his fabled head movement totally abandoned.

And here's another problem - Tyson was beaten in his prime, I'm afraid. Don't kid yourself with the excuses of D'Amato passing away (the king of all red herrings), Rooney being sacked or Tyson 'not training.' He was twenty-three when Douglas beat him, and personal problems do not constitute an excuse or a reason for someone apparently being past their best. You can try to excuse the Douglas loss all you want, but as far as I'm concered, a 5'10" Heavyweight such as Tyson was, eventually, always going to face problems against a tall fighter with a great jab, which Douglas certainly had that night.

To answer your question, I'd back Ali to take Tyson out in the latter rounds more often than not. George Foreman, for me, would have absolutely annihilated Tyson (there's a reason why Tyson refused to face even the old and slower version of Foreman in 1989), and likewise I reckon Sonny Liston would have made short work of him, too. A jab (and reach) to give Tyson nightmares, the intimidation factor to split open Tyson's fragile mental pysche and hit just as hard, too.

I'd say that Dempsey, Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield and Louis all start as favourite against Tyson, too. However, I'd back him more often than not to beat Marciano, Frazier, Charles, Walcott and Fitzsimmons. Balances the ledger fairly well, but in no way can I subscribe to this 'he'd have beaten them all in his prime if it hadn't been for (insert excuse here)' notion.

Ali and Holmes would have beaten him at whatever stage Tyson was at. Ali would have beaten Tyson before the first bell. Can you imagine Ali getting inside his head and Tyson imploding? It would be relatively easy for Ali.

As for Holmes, as Chris says, a good jaband athleticism beats Tyson. You need the footwork to get out of the way and the jab to keep him at bay.

Tyson would have beaten any version of Foreman imo. Simply too fast although George loved smaller attacking type of fighters.

If Tyson couldn't get them out by the middle rounds he probably wasn't going to win his stamina wasn't as bad as made out been exaggerated a bit with time. Remember he got taken the 12 rounds by Tucker and Smith and won by wide UD. Don't see him as unbeatable though and Haye being the best example of a match you could come up with was poor Haye has not fought a good HW yet. IMO he loses to
Ali
Holmes
Johnson
Foreman
Louis
Marciano (would be great to watch though)
Frasier

i wouldn't say ANYBODY easily beats a prime tyson. although i think ali, foreman, holmes, liston, lewis, holyfield, vitali, and maybe even haye would manage it most nights.

I don't see how Tyson beats Foreman in any shape or form, he is in my opinion a poor mans Frazier and we all know how that ended up. If we're going prime for prime we have to take Foreman the night he destroyed Frazier, not just on the night but his whole career, that version makes mince meat of anyone but Ali. You can't underestimate Ali's mental strength which ultimately won him the fight.

Ali
Holmes
Foreman
Johnson
Tunney
Frazier
Lewis
Holyfield
Bowe
Marciano
Louis

All beat him at least 2 out of 3

eddyfightfan wrote:i wouldn't say ANYBODY easily beats a prime tyson. although i think ali, foreman, holmes, liston, lewis, holyfield, vitali, and maybe even haye would manage it most nights.

Haye

Prince Naseem Hamed would have him. Or maybe he'd just get killed, i'm not sure.

Complete pillock was PNH, but damn he was slick.

THIS_IS_THE_NEWS wrote:Prince Naseem Hamed would have him. Or maybe he'd just get killed, i'm not sure.

Complete pillock was PNH, but damn he was slick.

What?

prettyboy1304 wrote:

THIS_IS_THE_NEWS wrote:Prince Naseem Hamed would have him. Or maybe he'd just get killed, i'm not sure.

Complete pillock was PNH, but damn he was slick.

What?

Thought i'd lighten things up!

THIS_IS_THE_NEWS wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

THIS_IS_THE_NEWS wrote:Prince Naseem Hamed would have him. Or maybe he'd just get killed, i'm not sure.

Complete pillock was PNH, but damn he was slick.

What?

Thought i'd lighten things up!

Didn't think it was getting heated in the first place

I love these "prime vs prime" discussions as no-one can ever be 100% who wins because of course they will never meet.

However, if it is "Prime", then who beats Mr Prime Mike Tyson?

Foreman
Ali
Lewis
Holmes
Bowe
Holyfield
Buster Douglas

And just for a "Meltdown in the ring Match-up" or two how's about Tyson vs Oliver McCall or Ike Ibeabuchi

Ali
Holmes
Louis
Lewis
Foreman
Frazier
Schmeling
Baer
Holyfield
Douglas
Fitz
Dempsey
Marciano
Johnson

I could go on and on

coxy0001 wrote:Ali
Holmes
Louis
Lewis
Foreman
Frazier
Schmeling
Baer
Holyfield
Douglas
Fitz
Dempsey
Marciano
Johnson

I could go on and on

Did you just post everyone good off the top of your head? Not saying I disagree mind...

oxring wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Ali
Holmes
Louis
Lewis
Foreman
Frazier
Schmeling
Baer
Holyfield
Douglas
Fitz
Dempsey
Marciano
Johnson

I could go on and on

Did you just post everyone good off the top of your head? Not saying I disagree mind...

Pretty much!

Pac with weight stipulations would absolutely destroy Tyson.

azania wrote:Pac with weight stipulations would absolutely destroy Tyson.

Only if he fought Tyson when he was coming in off the back of a heavy defeat against Douglas, Holyfield or Lewis, mind you.

88Chris05 wrote:

azania wrote:Pac with weight stipulations would absolutely destroy Tyson.

Only if he fought Tyson when he was coming in off the back of a heavy defeat against Douglas, Holyfield or Lewis, mind you.

D1...............

D2...............

D3...............

D................

I'm of the opinion that when dealing with great fighters, it's impossible to state with any great certainty that one particular great would always beat another. Great fighters fighting each other at their best usually make for highly competitive affairs and I'd imagine any series between such a pair would be split to some degree.

I'd suggest that any of the great heavyweights from history would have had a chance to topple Tyson, however, on the flip side, Tyson too would have had every chance against the greats (the Tyson between 86-88).

HumanWindmill wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

azania wrote:Pac with weight stipulations would absolutely destroy Tyson.

Only if he fought Tyson when he was coming in off the back of a heavy defeat against Douglas, Holyfield or Lewis, mind you.

D1...............

D2...............

D3...............

D................

Ali
Foreman
Lewis

Others are closely fought like Holmes, Liston, Johnson, Frazier.

It's a fair point, PERSONALLY the fact that Tyson had pretty much stopped training for around three or four fights and then took on Buster Douglas and got beat without really training says it to me that he was in good shape... Not saying it wasn't a good fight or that Buster Douglas didn't do well that night, but when you take into account that he didn't train then stamina had pretty much deserted him, I can't count it for me... =/ But I can completely understand where you are coming from.
Also Tyson was a much more ferocious puncher and could punch with both hands, also had better speed than Frazier, possibly didn't quite have the chin that Frazier had, but this tells me Ali lost to Frazier, he could lose to Mike... (I know Ali wasn't quite in his prime at that point however)

AlexHuckerby wrote:It's a fair point, PERSONALLY the fact that Tyson had pretty much stopped training for around three or four fights and then took on Buster Douglas and got beat without really training says it to me that he was in good shape... Not saying it wasn't a good fight or that Buster Douglas didn't do well that night, but when you take into account that he didn't train then stamina had pretty much deserted him, I can't count it for me... =/ But I can completely understand where you are coming from.
Also Tyson was a much more ferocious puncher and could punch with both hands, also had better speed than Frazier, possibly didn't quite have the chin that Frazier had, but this tells me Ali lost to Frazier, he could lose to Mike... (I know Ali wasn't quite in his prime at that point however)

Stopped traing for 3 or 4 fights? If he wasn't traing how come he entered the fights in great shame?

How in God's name does Tyson apparently 'not training' mean that the Douglas fight "doesn't count?"

88Chris05 wrote:How in God's name does Tyson apparently 'not training' mean that the Douglas fight "doesn't count?"

Presumably he means doesn't count as his prime.

AlexHuckerby wrote:It's a fair point, PERSONALLY the fact that Tyson had pretty much stopped training for around three or four fights and then took on Buster Douglas and got beat without really training says it to me that he was in good shape... Not saying it wasn't a good fight or that Buster Douglas didn't do well that night, but when you take into account that he didn't train then stamina had pretty much deserted him, I can't count it for me... =/ But I can completely understand where you are coming from.
Also Tyson was a much more ferocious puncher and could punch with both hands, also had better speed than Frazier, possibly didn't quite have the chin that Frazier had, but this tells me Ali lost to Frazier, he could lose to Mike... (I know Ali wasn't quite in his prime at that point however)

As Douglas's trainer pointed out - if he wasn't in shape he wouldn't have been able to take the beating he did.

And now you rate him above Frazier. Seriously sunshine, give it a rest.

coxy0001 wrote:As Douglas's trainer pointed out - if he wasn't in shape he wouldn't have been able to take the beating he did.

So which is it? Chinny or took a bad beating?

Foreman lasted the distance against Holyfield and was hardly in prime condition.

Scottrf

Seriously, shall i just write an article so if i say black you can say white?

Khan shipped punishment, doesn't mean he's not chinny though - does it?

Seriously, you're just getting a rep for being a bit of a WUM sunshine.

Is noone allowed to question you? I have no rep for being a WUM, you are the one who can't be sensible discussing Tyson or Roy Jones.

Can't be sensible?

Sorry, but having a "5 fight prime" doesn't constitute being an ATG. Neither does fighting patsy after patsy with 1 100% decent win on his record constitute ATG either.

It's modernism and affection for fighters that clouds people judgments on rankings etc, because the above are cold facts. Can also add in that Tyson fought in one of the most average eras there's been for HWs, only surpassed by now in terms of strength in depth.

You use evidence of Douglas' trainer bigging up his fighter, when anyone watching knows Tyson wasn't at his best. If D4 used similar 'evidence' he wouldn't hear the end of it.

Good win, but numerous people had commented on his slipping beforehand and there were enough people commenting on his training to thing perhaps he didn't have the best preparation.

Tyson was chinny.
Coxy likes girls.

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The Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot and the Abominable Snowman are all other mythical creatures that could beat the mythical 'Prime Tyson'.

huw wrote:The Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot and the Abominable Snowman ....

prime examples why we need a super heavyweight division.

The current versions of Bowe/Toney would also sit in this division.

There was peolpe commenting on the fact that he was being knocked over by sparring partners due to his lack of fitness CLEARLY not in his prime, I can't seriously take that as him being in his prime, also not many other boxers could come out of jail for four years and then win the HW world title and defend it as many times as he did. (Just to his credit)

People forget how quick and deadly Tyson was in his pomp..

I can buy some oldies giving him trouble but not the old and slow types like Jeffries......If Dempsey could force him back he might have a sniff but I'm not sure he was big enough....

The only old ones to give a chance to would be Tunney and Johnson and even they would be underdogs..

Really? Only Tunney and Johnson?

Not Louis, who wouldn't have been overawed by him and punched as hard/harder than him?

Or Sullivan who was a better athlete and had been in with harder punchers?

I can see why you'd give Tyson a chance over Fitzsimmons - Ruby Rob was tiny after all.

But only dempsey and Johnson? Your missing too many fighters out there IMO.

Sullivan used to stand in front of people swapping punch for punch..hardly going to threaten a bobbing and weaving Mike Tyson is it..

Louis was too small with a dodgy chin...

Who are these other names...

I'd pick Ali, Holmes to beat the kid but not many others.....

To beat a young Tyson, you'll need a solid chin, a good jab, movement and smarts on the inside. Alternatively you'll need to blow him away.

I think Liston is a strong favourite. Not easy to intimidate, strong chin, massive jab and power in spades. Ali, Johnson and Holmes are well equipped for the job. Louis wins if he gets to round 5 in reasonable shape.

Foreman could blow him away early, but Tyson was a fair bit bigger than Frazier and a fast starter and might get the better of George. Dempsey could conceivably out swarm him.

Greats who do poorly for me are:

Marciano - I just see Tyson hitting him hard and often on the way to a mid round stoppage - Marciano cut to pieces and floored along the way.
Jeffries - Over 12, Tyson outpoints him, clearly with Jeffries coming on a the end.
Lewis - Suspect chin no good against a rampaging Tyson. Tyson in < 4 rounds more often than not.

As an aside I think the Bowe from Holyfield I can beat him. He looked great in that fight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Sullivan used to stand in front of people swapping punch for punch..hardly going to threaten a bobbing and weaving Mike Tyson is it..

Louis was too small with a dodgy chin...

Who are these other names...

I'd pick Ali, Holmes to beat the kid but not many others.....

Sullivan fought under different rules

Louis had a better chin than Tyson, better technician, better in every department, I like Mike but absolutely no way on earth he beats Joe Louis. What does he do when gets close to Louis he gets his head tore off.

Dodgy chin ?? I've heard it all..

a simplistic buffoon of the highest order you are Mr Trussman, think before you type fat lad.

You win

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Sullivan used to stand in front of people swapping punch for punch..hardly going to threaten a bobbing and weaving Mike Tyson is it..

Louis was too small with a dodgy chin...

Who are these other names...

I'd pick Ali, Holmes to beat the kid but not many others.....

Sullivan used to stand in front of people swapping punch for punch bareknuckle. His chin held up pretty well. His defence was better than you give him credit for - he didn't ship THAT much damage.

Louis' dodgy chin held up against some fearsome punchers.

Corbett wins. Feints Tyson and jabs him apart. Without wishing to claim Dave667's thunder - Peter Jackson does well vs Tyson as well.

Vs Jeffries - the only question is whether Tyson can dish out ENOUGH punishment to stop a man who, in his prime, was fiendishly difficult to stop.

Ezzy wins due to the jab and counters. Jersey Joe slips most of Tyson's best work and counters him apart.

Keys to beat Tyson were relatively simple.
1. Do NOT be intimidated and beaten before the fight
2. EITHER - have a good jab
3. OR - be able to walk him down, force him to back up and land hard punches.

If Douglas could do it - are you saying that Corbett, Charles, Jackson, Walcott couldn't?

Re: Marciano.

Marciano's conditioning, chin and determination is in his favour - HOWEVER - there's the old adage swarmers-beat-boxers, boxers-beat-sluggers, sluggers-beat-swarmers.

Tyson was a slugger. Marciano a swarmer and would conceivably struggle. However - he wasn't as easy to hit as many seem to believe - and he could certainly return fire. Tyson-Marciano would have been a great fight - and Tyson certainly holds a lot of advantages.

The volume and velocity of Tyson's punching is the difference Oxring...Sullivan was more of a strongman than boxer...Great though he was..

You're three keys to beating him patronise the likes of Douglas/Holy etc...there was more to their victories than that....

and they weren't prime against Iron Mike's anyway.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The volume and velocity of Tyson's punching is the difference Oxring...Sullivan was more of a strongman than boxer...Great though he was..

You're three keys to beating him patronise the likes of Douglas/Holy etc...there was more to their victories than that....

and they weren't prime against Iron Mike's anyway.

Not sure I'm comfortable with that - you don't beat 470 men without having a little bit of boxing ability.

Tyson always struggled with a good jab - this much goes back all the way to his amateur days.

And you've hit upon the problem - "prime" Tyson. When was that? Which fight?

Tyson was my favourite fighter growing up - but you can't have a prime of 3 fights and be shot at 23.

Douglas gave him an awful mauling - and if that Douglas turned up at any point in Tyson's career - Tyson would have struggled/lost IMO.

Fighters were different in them days...Basically swapping punches in the centre of the ring....why do you think Corbett licked him so easily..

For me Rooney-Tyson 86-88 was his prime.....

I only allude to his prime because that's the articles premise..