Liverpool FC Thread

by **Crimey** Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

Liverpool FC

Transfers in:

Fabio Borini (£11 million)
Joe Allen (£15 million)
Joe Cole (return from loan)
Oussama Assaidi (£2.4 million)
Nuri Sahin (on loan)
Samed Yesil (£1 million)

Transfers out:

Dirk Kuyt (£1 million)
Maxi Rodriguez (Free)
Fabio Aurelio (Free)
Alberto Aquilani (£7 million)
Craig Bellamy (Free)
Andy Carroll (loan)
Jay Spearing (loan)
Charlie Adam (£4 million)

by liverbnz Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:06 pm

Liam, your spot on about Owen's injuries and it's been another bug bear of mine with Liverpool over the years. Gerrard, Fowler, McManaman and Owen were all played too often from a young age (mostly because we depended on them so much) and it came back to bit them (and us) in their later careers.

Even Rafa, who took a lot of criticism for rotation, didn't give Gerrard and Torres enough recovery time and were often brought back from injury too early only to pick up another injury shortly afterwards. Lucas was rarely rested in the last 3 years either and he's now suffered 2 serious injuries in 9 months.

I really hope Rodgers learns from these past errors, especially with Sterling just coming through.

by **Kenny** Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:37 pm

Owen signed a one year deal at Stoke City today confirmed by the Premier League

by nasisillmatic Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:45 pm

Kenny wrote:Owen signed a one year deal at Stoke City today confirmed by the Premier League

Thank god for that.

Del Piero has announced that he is signing for Sydney FC, so that puts them rumours to bed.

by **Kenny** Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:47 pm

Heskey is still available though Laugh

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:50 pm

Liam wrote:SOF,

Cheers for the info, sort of cleared up the reason why he left liverpool. I also thin k the reason for his hamstring injuries was that at such a young age playing all those games without much rest, took its toll on him. He was just a kid when he was banging in the goals and wasn't really managed that well, not a dig just my views. Who would've rested him with the form he was in.

I still think he get's far too tougher time from Liverpool fans. You take him out of the Liverpool side at the start of his career and there's allot of goals and match winning contributions gone. I still disagree with the whole 'he shouldn't celebrate' and stuff. Think people have got to be grown up about it all and say 'he was great for us, he's with utd whatever' i genuinely would have that thought if say a utd player was in the same position as owen was.

Sorry Liam but I think you need to see it from this side of the fence. Its like the ex-girlfriend who you love deciding to leave you, then ending up with your worst enemy, then she ends up getting it on with him right in front of you and then saying she doesn't care what you think Laugh

That’s best way I could think of putting it!

by **Crimey** Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:28 am

Thought I'd start a little debate.

Who does everybody think were the best signings of these managers:

Gerard Houllier
Rafael Benitez
Roy Hodgson
Kenny Dalglish

Gerard Houllier: Sami Hyypia

I will be surprised if anybody thinks any different. Signed for £2.6 million and spent ten years as one of the best central defenders in the Premier League, if not Europe. Club captain, total legend. I think it has to go down as one of Houllier's best signings, and probably the only one to really survive Benitez's run as manager as he culled the squad of most of Houllier's transfers.

Rafael Benitez: Xabi Alonso

I think there is a case for Fernando Torres or Daniel Agger or someone like Javier Mascherano, but I'll go Xabi Alonso, one of his first signings. At the time he was pretty unknown, I'd never heard of him when he signed and early signs were okay, not great. Alonso would turn into a world class midfielder, one who still hasn't been replaced. I think without Alonso Benitez would never have had the success he head, while Gerrard was the heart of the team, Carragher the soul, Alonso was the brain and kept all the moves ticking over but also with the ability to send 50 yard pinpoint passes. One of my favourite ever Liverpool players and I still harbour hopes of him returning.

Roy Hodgson: Jonjo Shelvey

A lot more difficult, as Joe Cole, Paul Konchesky and Christian Poulsen all flopped. I nearly did go for Raul Meireles, but I think it's let down by the fact that he left after a year for Chelsea not giving him a chance to really settle at the club. So I went for a player who was targeted before Hodgson got to the club, but a real young talent in Jonjo Shelvey. I genuinely believe Shelvey will develop into a really good midfielder, I think even now he fits in with ease into the line up and has a lot of ability. I think in five years time, we'll judge his signing for £1.7 million to be an absolute bargain.

Kenny Dalglish: Jose Enrique

I still think it's quite difficult to judge Dalglish's business, while Downing is probably never going to recover there is still time for Andy Carroll and Jordan Henderson to perhaps repay the hefty prices on their shoulders. Never fully, but there is still time for them to make people forget about them. One player who has already repaid his small fee is Enrique who has fitted into left back perfectly, a slot that has been empty since Riise dramatically lost a lot of form. I was a bit worried that Rodgers apparently tried to swap Enrique as a left back equally adept in defence and attack is hard to come by and he would struggle to get a good replacement for Enrique who is excellent on and off the ball.

What do you guys think?

by liverbnz Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:40 am

I'd say you are spot on with your first 2. Shelvey was actually signed by Rafa though. It was his last I think. Hodgson's best would probably be Miereles. Kenny's at the moment would be Suarez for me (ignoring all the offf field furore at the minute) although he probably would have been signed whoever was the manager at the time. Enrique was very good the first 4 months but was equally terrible after, but then again most were in the latter half of last season.

by **Crimey** Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:44 am

I actually completely forgot about Suarez. Laugh

Yeah, I'd probably have him over Enrique.

Shelvey definitely didn't complete his signing until Hodgson was here, I believe that Benitez was the one who kickstarted the move but it was completed under Hodgson.

by JamesLincs Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:23 pm

SoF, i was talking about owen, chill your borini

by mobilemaster8 Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:42 pm

Shelvey? I think he is garbage if im honest.

Id say:

Hypia
Alonso
Meireles
Enrique

Id also say that Andy Carroll will turn out to be a better player than Shelvey in 5 years time no matter where he is (i know its a lot of difference in price, but thats not the players fault).

Rahim Sterling or whatever his name is absolute brilliant.

Real player for the future. Could you loan him to Stoke City for me please? We could do with a left winger as Matty Etherington is in the bookies.

by Guest Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:51 pm

It's a toss up between Alonso and Hyypia. Both were absolute class players and even classier individuals.

Apparently Alonso urged Nuri Şahin to join Liverpool instead of Arsenal and play in front of the best fans on the planet. Top man.

Hyypia has already moved into a top management position in Germany and who knows maybe one day he'll take the reins at Anfield??

by lfc91 Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:19 pm

Hard to top hyppia purely on price/what he did for the club. Absolute legend. As for alonso, best passer ive ever seen in my time as a liverpool fan(im 21 btw, mention that because i know older fans will have seen some awesome passers). The team we had under benitez with the midfield 3 of alonso, mascherano and stevie was probably the closest chance we ever had of winning the league!

by **Crimey** Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:02 pm

I've heard a few people say they think Shelvey is garbage and I can't understand it at all. He's well on his way to becoming a top class player, I wouldn't say he's too far behind Tom Cleverly who's just had a starring role for England in a competitive match.

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:53 am

I agree with all apart from Alonso. I think Rafa's best signing was Torres.

While he always managed to score goals at Atletico, his career really took off while with us. He was an absolute goal machine that we had been missing since Fowler and Owen.

I also think people look at Alonso's last season with us and think he played like that for 5 years, he never. While he was superb in his first 2 seasons, he also had a 2 year blip were his standards dipped.

When Rafa wanted to bring in Gareth Barry I could see why at the time, this was also a good kick up the a$$ for Alonso because he went on to have his best season with us.

by **Crimey** Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:34 am

Even a poor Alonso was better than anything we've had since he left though.

by **Kenny** Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:03 am

Alonso was a big loss , but 30 million was a great price and was enough to buy a equally good replacement .............it just didn't happen

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:15 am

I agree Alonso was a big loss, but if he'd have been sold the season before it would not have seemed such a big loss.

Whoever agreed to let the Barry deal slip and sign Keane is to blame.

by **Kenny** Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:26 am

If he had been sold the season before we wouldn't of got 30 million though .

The transfer policy and decision making behind them has been more miss then hit for far to many years now . There was talk in yesterdays papers of a new transfer panel being set up at the club so lets hope that sorts things out .

by **Crimey** Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:29 am

The problem this summer is we had nobody football related doing the transfers, only business men because of Rodgers refusal to have a technical director. I think he's been tricked a little, by refusing a technical director he obviously wanted control over transfers, instead it's just been passed up higher.

by **Kenny** Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:36 am

I hope if we do spend in January that things aren't left until the last couple of days and that we get in early and get the players we want .

My mate says that there is a recall clause in Carrolls West Ham deal enabling him to come back in January , so if we dont get anyone else in then i hope Rodgers swallows his pride and brings Andy back .

by **Crimey** Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:43 am

Yeah apparently that clause does exist, I wonder whether it'd still be valid on deadline day in January so Rodgers can try and bring somebody in and then call him back at the last second if he fails to get anybody.

I do fear that Rodgers will go for Daniel Sturridge though.

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:46 am

I hope we don't call Andy Carroll back.

While I didn't want him to leave, it is pretty clear he will be sold next year and for us to get the most value means Carroll staying at West Ham for the season were he will show a lot more of himself.

by **Crimey** Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:48 am

nasisillmatic wrote:I hope we don't call Andy Carroll back.

While I didn't want him to leave, it is pretty clear he will be sold next year and for us to get the most value means Carroll staying at West Ham for the season were he will show a lot more of himself.

If Rodgers is still here that is.

If he stays at West Ham the fee is £17 million if they sign him permanently.

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:51 am

If we recall him do you think West Ham would still buy?

I also think Rodgers is here for the long term, he was FSG's pick and I hope they would stick with the plan long term, because things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

by liverbnz Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:58 am

There is no fee agreed with West Ham, there's not even a deal in place for the end of the loan. West Ham have first refusal if Liverpool want to sell, nothing else.

by **Crimey** Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:59 am

Well they've agreed a £17 million fee before, so it's likely we'd sell him to them at that price.

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:59 am

liverbnz wrote:There is no fee agreed with West Ham, there's not even a deal in place for the end of the loan. West Ham have first refusal if Liverpool want to sell, nothing else.

More reason for Carroll to stay on loan and try and increase the value.

by liverbnz Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:04 pm

Exactly. He'll probably have a great season at West Ham and which will prompt calls for Rodgers to integrate him into his Liverpool team. This will however be the time to sell.

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:08 pm

Yeah I agree, his future lies away from Anfield. It is a shame though because of the fee we paid.

by **Kenny** Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:01 pm

I have mixed feelings about Carroll , i like him as a player but dont think he was ever going to score 20+ plus goals a season ... the fee wasn't his fault but was probably triple what we should of paid .

I would keep him for the alternatives he gives . But that doesn't look like it will happen .

On a different note i read some bloke has bet £10,000 at 12/1 that Harry Redknapp will be in charge at Anfield before the start of next season

by **Crimey** Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:03 pm

I doubt he will be, unless he's brought in short term. FSG clearly want a young manager, all the targets were young last year. Rodgers, AVB and Martinez.

by **Kenny** Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:17 pm

Yes i agree , but i do get the feeling FSG wont tolerate a losing season no matter what

by Lumbering_Jack Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:35 pm

Even at £17m Carroll is still a huge rip off. Think he'll do ok at West Ham due to the absolute tripe they play, but for me he's just a big Kevin Davies.

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:41 pm

I think FSG know this will take a long time, they have even admitted that aiming for top 4 last season was a mistake.

I fully expect Rodgers to be here at the end of the season, it's stupid that after 3 games we can even talk about the possibility of him not.

by Liam Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:50 pm

I still can't get over the rubbish Dagleish/damien bought during their time with the amount of money they had on offer. I mean:

Downing 20m: Had a poor last season at Villa and for that fee, was never going to live up to it really. Could have got some serious talented wingers for that kind of fee.
Henderson 20m: To me, looked decent at Sunderland but that was about it, decent. For instance, Mclean looks like he could become one of the best wingers in the PL, he has raw pace, a cracking left foot and a tremendous work ethic. With Henderson, he wasn't quick enough to be a winger and didn't have a great final ball, and when he played CM he never looked like he had the technical ability to be a very good midfielder there. So who thought it would be a good idea to sign him for that sort of fee, even if he is only 20, was just bonkers.

There's 40m on two players personally I would never ever have paid. I know its old news but I still can't get my head around the figures. I didn't even discuss the Carroll deal because I've lost count on the amount of times I've expressed my amazement at that deal.

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:57 pm

Them 2 deals were just typical Liverpool. We must be the worst club at negotiating deals in our favour.

Look at Robbie Keane - paid 20 million, then 6 months later sold for 15 million.

Then look at the business Spurs did with Everton for Pienaar, that is how you negotiate a deal.

by **Crimey** Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:03 pm

Downing had a good last season with Villa getting 7 goals and 9 assists, which is an alright return. Not £20 million worth, but it was equal goals and more assists than Ashley Young who went for £16 million to Manchester United.

I think Jordan Henderson is a long term deal, the initial fee was more like £14 million with the possibility of it moving up to £20 million based on performances. I still think he has time to become a top player. I believe the fee was raised so high because Manchester United were also prepared to make a bid so we priced them out of it, especially after they beat us to Phil Jones.

They're not great signings at all, but I don't think they're as awful as people like to point out. The only one I'd write off at this point is Downing.

by Liam Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:03 pm

nasisillmatic wrote:Them 2 deals were just typical Liverpool. We must be the worst club at negotiating deals in our favour.

Look at Robbie Keane - paid 20 million, then 6 months later sold for 15 million.

Then look at the business Spurs did with Everton for Pienaar, that is how you negotiate a deal.

Exactly but to me it seemed evidently obvious that those two players wouldn't really improve Liverpool, especially when you have 40m to spend on wingers. What about Hoilett, how on earth did he go to QPR??

I actually though Keane was a good signing, but clearly wasn't a Benitez signing, he never wanted him imo, someone else signed him. As a result, to prove a point, he never played him for some reason, so he rotted away and when he got the chance to play he was short of match fitness, resulting in less than convincing performances.

by **Crimey** Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:05 pm

Raheem Sterling has been called up to the England squad. The main, senior England squad. Shocked

Very surprised by this, and worried that he's advertising himself to the world. Sad

Good luck to him though, I doubt he'll play but to be called up at 17 must be amazing!

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:07 pm

To be fair to Rafa he did play Keane quite a bit but subbed him after about an hour in nearly every game.

The Keane signing was strange one, as the Gerrard & Torres partnership was working so why change it.

by liverbnz Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:07 pm

The fees were ridiculous looking back on it, although the maximum payout for Henderson is 16m - still expensive mind.

However, Henderson definitely has the 'technical ability' to play CM. He has an excellent first touch, keeps the ball very well and has a pretty good engine. His problems seem to be in his head, in that he needs to have more belief in his ability rather than lacking any of it. RM is not his best position, although he was merely there last season as a 3rd midfielder tucking in, with the RB being used to give the team width. The problem was he played way too many games when he should have been eased into the team.

The exact same could be said of Stewart Downing - mentality wise, although he is supposed to be in the peak of his career so there's less hope for him developing. However, his last season with Villa was his best, scoring 8 goals in 44 games. Him and Ashely Young were there stand out players.

by **Crimey** Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:11 pm

I agree with Henderson, too often he looks scared to really drive forward with the ball, but I think a criticism of his technical ability isn't right, he's good with the ball at his feet and is capable of some nice passing. He's just not dynamic enough. That confidence may come though.

by Liam Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:13 pm

Crimey wrote:Downing had a good last season with Villa getting 7 goals and 9 assists, which is an alright return. Not £20 million worth, but it was equal goals and more assists than Ashley Young who went for £16 million to Manchester United.

I think Jordan Henderson is a long term deal, the initial fee was more like £14 million with the possibility of it moving up to £20 million based on performances. I still think he has time to become a top player. I believe the fee was raised so high because Manchester United were also prepared to make a bid so we priced them out of it, especially after they beat us to Phil Jones.

They're not great signings at all, but I don't think they're as awful as people like to point out. The only one I'd write off at this point is Downing.

Still wasn't even worth a bid for Downing, like you said not an outstanding record but a decent one, which is why it was bonkers to spend that much money for him.

On Henderson, I would have been livid if Utd had got him. Remember thinking at the time 'why the hell are we considering this?'. I know he's only young, but has yet to show any attibutes to suggest he could spear head a Liverpool revival or be a prime player for years to come.

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:16 pm

Sterling being called up is strange, started 2 league games.

I hope Hodgson doesn't play him.

by Kay Fabe Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:16 pm

I've never been Downing's biggest fan, never rated him highly enough to play for a big club or even be worth big money, that being said, his last season at Villa he got more crosses into the box than anyone else in the Premiership, think it was something like 230 odd successful crosses during the season so with that in mind and the fact they had Andy Carroll I could definitely see the logic in wanting someone who could get so many crosses in when you have such a strong physical ariel threat

However, when Downing played it wasn't in the same role that he had at Villa and he never seemed to play when Carroll did either, which makes the whole signing pretty pointless for me

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:20 pm

Sterling being called up is strange, started 2 league games.

I hope Hodgson doesn't play him.

by Josiah Maiestas Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:00 pm

West Ham were big enough mugs to take Bentley from Spurs, offer Carlton Cole bigger contract, sign Benny McCarthy on 80k p/w etc. Don't remember them ever spending 17m on 1 player though? They would be mental to spend that but then so did Villa on Darren Bent (guess he can actually poach though).

by **Kenny** Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:00 pm

So much for the supposed conversation between Rodgers and the FA regarding protecting Sterling from all the hype and keeping him in the under 18's

by nasisillmatic Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:42 pm

Has Sterling been called up to stop him opting to play for Jamaica?

by Josiah Maiestas Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:55 pm

nasisillmatic wrote:Has Sterling been called up to stop him opting to play for Jamaica?

Well if Jamaica were interested in him, they should have let him know.

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