Reasons to love the PRO 12.

Its getting near starting time for the League, and I can't wait.

This year looks to be gearing up to be the most competative yet.

Terviso and Connacht are improving and look to be pushing the established big teams of Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Ospreys, Scarlets and Blues, and will be aiming to finish in the top 6, the big six will all be hoping for a play off finish. Going to be a lot of tight games, but I don't think we will get to many shock results. IE, if Connacht beat Ospreys it would be an upset, in the past a shock, but now its not so much of a shock.

One of the reasons I like the Pro 12 is that the teams are split into 4 unions, and all 4 want to have there teams at the top of the table, this means that is a unions teams are not doing well they will put more resources in to try and bring them up, making the league always competative. Look at how the SRU and helped Edinburgh and Glasgow improve over the last few years, likewise IRFU and Connacht.

Italy and pushed Terviso on, they have taken the decision that Aironi weren't going to be make it, and have launched Zebre, who will be in for a very tough first year, but this shows how the different unions in a league make it more competative.

IE if it was a one union league, a team that isn't doing well would sit about the bottom maybe go down come up, and yo yo for a time, but if a team is at/near bottom of Pro 12, the Union will try to focus resources on it to try and move it up the table, any other team could hope for more Union support and would have to hope for a sugar daddy or such like to come along.

It also has some of the best teams in Europe, people may say the first teams don't play enough in the league, but this is argued that they play as many as in any other league, but the teams do have more strength in depth, for the PRO 12.

I can't wait, while I see Leinster as being the best team in it and very likely to top the table 2-6 is very close and 6-11 will be very close as well, all to play for.

PS please don't turn this into a Pro 12 v other Leagues debate, but instead look at the Pro 12's unique features that make it good or bad.

Feck off Kingshu, you have me all excited now and the leagur is not starting for another 5/6 weeks . Seriously though, the two best teams in the league are Leinster and the Ospreys with Munster not far behind, that is how I see it at the moment, although there are a couple of teams who could upset the apple cart this coming season, any of the Scottish sides could do it, also for some reason I can see the Scarlets making inroads this year, and what I will say is this Treviso, dragons and Connacht will all have a say in who is at the top next season, they might not get there themselves but if any of the favoured teams take them lightly at their home grounds they "will" loose points.

Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

I'm really looking forward to the league this season. You have a sense that everyone is buying into it now and getting behind it when before there always was somebody knocking it.

Theres been a lot of changes over the summer which makes things even more interesting this season.

looking forward to the Ospreys visit to Rodney Parade as always

I don't think that you can travel away to any venue and expect a win (except maybe Zebre, but we'll see how they do before we judge)

Dragons, Connacht, and Terviso will all take points of some of the bigger clubs at home, maybe even away (remember Terviso beat Ulster in Ravenhill last year, something that not many teams do).

1) Easier access into the HC.

Joking ? aside the negatives for me would be lack of away fans & therefor edge to games involving the different unions.
Lack of TV coverage & therefor revenue.

Positives - took a while to get a sponsor but now it is growing steadily albeit shakily for the Italian clubs sides.
Is a vehicle for the Unions with a smaller number of representative sides to get regular games.

This is the year the pro 12 becomes the top domestic competition in europe. Its gonna be epic.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

This is true but I reckon there will be more than a few idiots on here claiming 5pt walk overs when their side comes up against Connacht, Treviso, or Zebre.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

This is true but I reckon there will be more than a few idiots on here claiming 5pt walk overs when their side comes up against Connacht, Treviso, or Zebre.

Or the Dragons

I think the best thing with the league is that before there were three or four clear bands of quality, where the teams in band 1 were clear of those in band 2, those in band 2 were clear of those in band 3 etc.

Leinster, Munster, Ospreys
Ulster, Blues, Scarlets
Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dragons
Connacht, Treviso, Aironi

now it seems to be more settled into three groups that will see teams from the middle pack look to be doing well or really poor depending on the fixtures, but probably only a few points between the top of the pack and the bottom.

Leinster, Ospreys
Munster, Ulster, Connacht, Blues, Scarlets, Dragons, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Treviso
Zebre

munkian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

This is true but I reckon there will be more than a few idiots on here claiming 5pt walk overs when their side comes up against Connacht, Treviso, or Zebre.

Or the Dragons

N'ah it is an easy 5pts away at Dave parade even Zebre will pick it up

Before I get excited about the start of the league I want to see who the Scarlets sign at lock and prop - then I can start imagining us sweeping all before us in a blaze of attacking rugby and gritty tough edged forwards.

I also won't be able to compare us against other teams - it's certainly going to be competitive and even Leinster and Ospreys could find themselves struggling to stay/get to the top if their not careful.

It'll be interesting to see how the Blues new front row goes, and Lua Lua at Munster but the most interesting will be the revamped Scottish sides and how they fare, and how consistent they'll be.

It's def going to be a tough season for all teams.

Really looking forward to this season as last finished so positively for the Ospreys. I certainly hope that they can build on what they started.

Pre season games start sooner than 6 weeks, I think they start in four weeks.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Before I get excited about the start of the league I want to see who the Scarlets sign at lock and prop - then I can start imagining us sweeping all before us in a blaze of attacking rugby and gritty tough edged forwards.

I also won't be able to compare us against other teams - it's certainly going to be competitive and even Leinster and Ospreys could find themselves struggling to stay/get to the top if their not careful.

It'll be interesting to see how the Blues new front row goes, and Lua Lua at Munster but the most interesting will be the revamped Scottish sides and how they fare, and how consistent they'll be.

It's def going to be a tough season for all teams.

Can you see the scarlets getting a win over clermont in the HC? I hope they can.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

This is true but I reckon there will be more than a few idiots on here claiming 5pt walk overs when their side comes up against Connacht, Treviso, or Zebre.

The leceister fans are already convinced that they will get two 5pt wins in the HC over treviso. Im afraid they are in for a shock.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

This is true but I reckon there will be more than a few idiots on here claiming 5pt walk overs when their side comes up against Connacht, Treviso, or Zebre.

The leceister fans are already convinced that they will get two 5pt wins in the HC over treviso. Im afraid they are in for a shock.

Sure they slipped up last year away to Aironi and didn't get the BP, Aironi were by far a weaker side than Treviso, and Treviso should be better this year than last.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

This is true but I reckon there will be more than a few idiots on here claiming 5pt walk overs when their side comes up against Connacht, Treviso, or Zebre.

The leceister fans are already convinced that they will get two 5pt wins in the HC over treviso. Im afraid they are in for a shock.

Have you got a direct quote from a Leicester fan saying that?

If they watched any of Treviso's HC campaign, particularly at home they will know it won't be an easy ride.

It will be interesting to see whether Edinburgh focus more on the Pro12 to make up for last season - certainly comparing their HC group to last season you would think so.

beshocked wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

This is true but I reckon there will be more than a few idiots on here claiming 5pt walk overs when their side comes up against Connacht, Treviso, or Zebre.

The leceister fans are already convinced that they will get two 5pt wins in the HC over treviso. Im afraid they are in for a shock.

Have you got a direct quote from a Leicester fan saying that?

If they watched any of Treviso's HC campaign, particularly at home they will know it won't be an easy ride.

It will be interesting to see whether Edinburgh focus more on the Pro12 to make up for last season - certainly comparing their HC group to last season you would think so.

"Bit narked off the double header is against Treviso, was eying up the home game of the double header as part of my stag do but that isn't going to be much of a game to watch."
theres a quote from sam. As you can see they dont see treviso as much of a game. There have been other quotes aswell ill try find them

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Before I get excited about the start of the league I want to see who the Scarlets sign at lock and prop - then I can start imagining us sweeping all before us in a blaze of attacking rugby and gritty tough edged forwards.

I also won't be able to compare us against other teams - it's certainly going to be competitive and even Leinster and Ospreys could find themselves struggling to stay/get to the top if their not careful.

It'll be interesting to see how the Blues new front row goes, and Lua Lua at Munster but the most interesting will be the revamped Scottish sides and how they fare, and how consistent they'll be.

It's def going to be a tough season for all teams.

Can you see the scarlets getting a win over clermont in the HC? I hope they can.

It depends on who we sign, last year we were capable of beating Munster home and away in the groups - but fell short both times. So I could see us winning all our home games, but the problem is we are very weak in the front 5 at the moment - we've lost both our starting props and 3 locks and replaced them with 1 lock who'll be available all season and 1 who'll be missing until mid-Oct or December. If we get in a high quality prop and lock then we should be able to battle anyone upfront and have some tasty options on the flanks in Shingler, Turnbull and D Thomas, and a good array of attacking talent in the backs, whose defence should continue to improve.

Fair point Leinsterfan but let's be honest wouldn't you rather watch your side vs Toulouse or Ospreys? Ok maybe not Ospreys. You get my point though.

I think the Tigers fans are just miffed that they aren't playing one of the other two sides in the back to back.

The back to backs generally have the perceived two top sides in the pool fighting it out.

The Scarlets are a really dangerous side, particularly in Europe. I wouldn’t be surprised if they beat Leinster or Clermont at home. I know which one I’m hoping for!

beshocked wrote:Fair point Leinsterfan but let's be honest wouldn't you rather watch your side vs Toulouse or Ospreys? Ok maybe not Ospreys. You get my point though.

I think the Tigers fans are just miffed that they aren't playing one of the other two sides in the back to back.

The back to backs generally have the perceived two top sides in the pool fighting it out.

I know ye but as i said i have seen other quotes aswell. I remember some people saying its not the group of death because treviso are in it and stuff like that.

beshocked - not being disrespectful but every time the HEC pool are named stright off there are Jeff supporters predicting 5pt way wins against teams that are in the Rabo. Last season Saints were going to take 9pts (but some fans went for 10pts) from their matches against the Scarlets, and the year before London Irish were going to do the same. So I would say that Treviso and Zebre should catch a few out, like Connacht did last season.

munkian wrote:looking forward to the Ospreys visit to Rodney Parade as always

Yeh, you can't beat turning up just to shout abuse at some international players...

Serioulsy tho, I'd swap a HC1/4 spot for a win at RP. Its been that long...

beshocked wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

This is true but I reckon there will be more than a few idiots on here claiming 5pt walk overs when their side comes up against Connacht, Treviso, or Zebre.

The leceister fans are already convinced that they will get two 5pt wins in the HC over treviso. Im afraid they are in for a shock.

Have you got a direct quote from a Leicester fan saying that?

If they watched any of Treviso's HC campaign, particularly at home they will know it won't be an easy ride.

It will be interesting to see whether Edinburgh focus more on the Pro12 to make up for last season - certainly comparing their HC group to last season you would think so.

I can quote directly a Saracens fan saying it ( https://www.606v2.com/t32585-hec-jeff-teams-this-time-around ), although I may have miss-read it?

beshocked wrote:Portnoy I am surprised you don't think best runner up will be from Quin's group.

Sam of course it's optimistic. I think there's a lot of close calls.

I think the most clear is that Quins will qualify, Leinster and Clermont should too.

Pool 1 in my opinion is a toss up between Munster and Saracens though Edinburgh and Racing Metro could play decisive roles in who tops the pool.

Pool 2 Tigers to just about edge through. Contraversial but I can see them running riot against the O's at WR for a bonus point, 2 5 pointers against Treviso.
Pool 3 Harlequins at a canter. Biarritz to get best runners up in my opinion.

Pool 4 Ulster very close with Saints for top spot. Ulster to edge it.

Pool 5 Leinster and Clermont should run riot. Leinster to top courtesy of more bonus points.

Pool 6 Toulon to come of age in my opinion and take their pool by storm.

leinsterfan then they are being foolish.

Scarletspiderman that's a fair point. I think a lot of Pro12 sides are written off but that can be very risky.

Luckily my side have not yet fallen into that trap. They did in the AP against Exeter in their first encounter but that's another story. It can be a seriously sober wake up call.



I think the feeling of superiority and looking down at the supposedly weak Pro12 sides is because of the whole HC qualification issue.

When you're one of the top sides in your league and you face one of the bottom sides of another league it's easy to write the other side off.

Look at Quins vs Connacht for example. Quins beat Toulouse away and thought we've got this pool in the bag guys. Nope - Connacht had other ideas.

I feel this season the AP and Top 14 sides will be an awful lot more wary. The pro12 sides in general had good HCs.

Breadvan
its done, Ospreys will win at RP this year, but flop in Europe again.

You can thank me for sorting it for you.

Also when all the Ospreys fans are complaining about flopping in Europe again, I'll send them your way to explain why.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whoever thinks playing connacht and treviso away is an easy game is an idiot.

This is true but I reckon there will be more than a few idiots on here claiming 5pt walk overs when their side comes up against Connacht, Treviso, or Zebre.

The leceister fans are already convinced that they will get two 5pt wins in the HC over treviso. Im afraid they are in for a shock.

Have you got a direct quote from a Leicester fan saying that?

If they watched any of Treviso's HC campaign, particularly at home they will know it won't be an easy ride.

It will be interesting to see whether Edinburgh focus more on the Pro12 to make up for last season - certainly comparing their HC group to last season you would think so.

I can quote directly a Saracens fan saying it ( https://www.606v2.com/t32585-hec-jeff-teams-this-time-around ), although I may have miss-read it?

beshocked wrote:Portnoy I am surprised you don't think best runner up will be from Quin's group.

Sam of course it's optimistic. I think there's a lot of close calls.

I think the most clear is that Quins will qualify, Leinster and Clermont should too.

Pool 1 in my opinion is a toss up between Munster and Saracens though Edinburgh and Racing Metro could play decisive roles in who tops the pool.

Pool 2 Tigers to just about edge through. Contraversial but I can see them running riot against the O's at WR for a bonus point, 2 5 pointers against Treviso.
Pool 3 Harlequins at a canter. Biarritz to get best runners up in my opinion.

Pool 4 Ulster very close with Saints for top spot. Ulster to edge it.

Pool 5 Leinster and Clermont should run riot. Leinster to top courtesy of more bonus points.

Pool 6 Toulon to come of age in my opinion and take their pool by storm.

Wow you have sown me up good and proper.

Also I did say it was controversial.

That's what I think will happen. It could still be a tight match but stopping Tigers scoring tries isn't easy.

It's simply because Tigers score a lot of tries. I think about 65 in the AP. They notched up 8/9 try bonus points in the AP. That's an insane amount.

I never said what the winning margin is.

Leicester have had Treviso in their pool before and struggled, i'm sure most of their fans know/think it won't be easy. Likewise Ospreys supporters.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:This is the year the pro 12 becomes the top domestic competition in europe. Its gonna be epic.

Hold you horses now fella, we've got a long way to go before we get there.

'Shocked - I must be honest I had to laugh when I found that post. I would not be suprised if the Tigers did pick up two bonus points, that as the team will take Treviso serious even if the fans do not.

I will boldly say that neither the Ospreys, Scarlets, Blues, Leinster, Munster and Ulster will not have any try bonus points scored against them in Europe next season, they might get loosing bonus points scored against them though.

LordDowlais wrote:I will boldly say that neither the Ospreys, Scarlets, Blues, Leinster, Munster and Ulster will not have any try bonus points scored against them in Europe next season, they might get loosing bonus points scored against them though.

That's bold as the Scarlets seemed to like out scoring teams 5 tries to 4 such as Perpingan and there's such tough groups that if a team has an off day they could find themselves on the end of a close loss but the winning team has snatched a 4th try

If the Blues can't sort their front row out, it could be penalty tries galore out in France to Toulon or Montpellier.

Scarletspiderman I did cringe a bit when I re read my post. Better than having a sore bottom sitting on a fence though.

Lorddowlais that's pretty bold.

I'll look at last season to see how many try bonus points were conceded:

Ospreys - 1 by Biarritz.

Munster - 1 by Saints

Still not a bad effort.

No offence to Sarries or Biarritz but the O's are in a much more attacking group this year and the risk of conceding a 4 try bonus point will be much higher, likewise with Scarlets.

gowales wrote:No offence to Sarries or Biarritz but the O's are in a much more attacking group this year and the risk of conceding a 4 try bonus point will be much higher, likewise with Scarlets.

God help the O's and Scarlets then.

Kingshu wrote:Breadvan
its done, Ospreys will win at RP this year, but flop in Europe again.

You can thank me for sorting it for you.

Also when all the Ospreys fans are complaining about flopping in Europe again, I'll send them your way to explain why.

Hey, Its a tough group.

I will love the PRO12 even more this year. I'm moving to Dublin in a few weeks so I'll be able to go and watch Leinster in the RDS regularly.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I will love the PRO12 even more this year. I'm moving to Dublin in a few weeks so I'll be able to go and watch Leinster in the RDS regularly.

I wouldn't be so sure its not easy to get tickets for Leinster games. I still like the fact you can mostly get Ulster tickets at the gate, means it can be a spur on the moment thing, not having to be planed in advance.

an Ideal stadium is one where you can still get tickets for most games at gate, or day before, but the stadium is nearly always filled and sold out in advance for big games.

If you got rid of all the folk who just like to 'be seen' at the rugby the RDS would be a lot easier to get into!

sugarNspikes wrote:If you got rid of all the folk who just like to 'be seen' at the rugby the RDS would be a lot easier to get into!

Didn't think club rugby was your thing really Cyril?

Feckless Rogue wrote:I will love the PRO12 even more this year. I'm moving to Dublin in a few weeks so I'll be able to go and watch Leinster in the RDS regularly.

D4 roysh ?

sugarNspikes on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:31 pm

If you got rid of all the folk who just like to 'be seen' at the rugby the RDS would be a lot easier to get into!

We aactually agree on something

Hard to get excited about a second rate competition where the teams involved have to pick a second string team for a large % of games....................

It's not the teams' fault................it's just the way it is...............the advantage of course being that second choice players get plenty of game time............

As aserious Rugby competition................afraid not..................

John Cregan wrote:Hard to get excited about a second rate competition where the teams involved have to pick a second string team for a large % of games....................

It's not the teams' fault................it's just the way it is...............the advantage of course being that second choice players get plenty of game time............

As aserious Rugby competition................afraid not..................

You talking about the Rabo, the AV, the Top14 or the LV Cup?

It's hard to keep track when people are talking about squad rotation...

Thats just the Irish teams cotton wrapping their creaking star players

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

John Cregan wrote:Hard to get excited about a second rate competition where the teams involved have to pick a second string team for a large % of games....................

It's not the teams' fault................it's just the way it is...............the advantage of course being that second choice players get plenty of game time............

As aserious Rugby competition................afraid not..................

You talking about the Rabo, the AV, the Top14 or the LV Cup?

It's hard to keep track when people are talking about squad rotation...

All of them i suppose (not a follower of Top 14 or LV Cup)...............too much rugby obviously the reason for "squad rotation"......................i mean Eng/Ire/Scotland/Wales all playing 3 tests in the Summer......it's just too much..................don't get me started on the Lions next summer............................

Maybe you should watch 7's if squad rotation turns your stomach so much!

But if not you should sit back and enjoy some really competitive games in the Pro12 and HEC

John Gregan you are joking about it but statistically the Pro12 are bound to be missing more of their top players for longer periods.

The Top 14 cater for one international side. The AP cater for one international side. The Pro12 caters for 4 international sides.

Say hypothetically it's a 30 man squad. 30 x 4 is 120.

That's 120 players missing from the Pro12 during international windows.

Obviously this will bring down the quality.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Maybe you should watch 7's if squad rotation turns your stomach so much!

But if not you should sit back and enjoy some really competitive games in the Pro12 and HEC

Thanks for telling me what i should enjoy but i think i'll make up my own mind thanks !!

That 7's stuff is just silly..................id prefer watch Tag Rugby!!