Welsh Regions Signings/Departures/Rumours so far ( Barry Davies signs for Jersey RFC)

Cardiff Blues

In

Jason Tovey (Newport Gwent Dragons)- Confirmed
Lou Reed (Scarlets) -Confirmed
Robin Copeland (Rotherham Titans)- Confirmed
Benoit Bourrust (Perpignan)- Confirmed
Campese Ma'afu (West Habour)-Confirmed
Andy Kyriacou (Ulster) -Confirmed
Phil Davies DOR (Worcester)- Confirmed
Gerwyn Price (Cross Keys) - Rumour
Rob Lewis (London Welsh)-confirmed





Out

Gethin Jenkins (Toulon) -Confirmed
Martyn Williams -Retiring - Confirmed
Rhys Thomas (Wasps)- Confirmed
Dan Parks (Connacht) Confirmed
Casey Laulala (Munster)- Confirmed
Deiniol Jones -Retiring -Confirmed
Paul Tito- Released - confirmed
Manna Molitika -Retiring- Confirmed
Ben Blair (Agen)- Confirmed
John Yapp (Edinburgh) Confirmed
Richie Rees (Edinburgh)-Confirmed
Ryan Tyrell (Melbourne Rebels)-Confirmed
Xavier Rush (Retiring/Defence Coach) - Confirmed


Scarlet's

In


Lewis Rawlins (Cross Keys) - Confirmed
Barry Davies ( Ospreys) - Rumour
Jason Eaton ( Hurricanes)- Rumour
Adam Byrnes ( Melbourne Rebels) -Rumour
Manuel Carizza (Biarittz)- Rumour
Kristian Phillips (Ospreys) - Confirmed
Davit Zirakashvili (Clermont Auvergne)- Rumour
Danny Wilson (Newport Dragons-forwards coach)- Confirmed
Daniel Carpo (RC Timisoara, Romania) - Rumour
Joe Tuineau (Montpellier) -Rumour
Cambell Johnstoe (Biarritz)- Rumour
George Earle ( Cheetahs) - Confirmed
Simon Easterby (New DOR) - Confirmed
Richard Kelly (Ospreys) - Confirmed
Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys) - Rumour
Gavin Henson (Unattached) - Rumour
Tomas Vallejos Cinalli (Harlequins) - Confirmed
Pat ciliers (Lions) - Rumour
Gareth Owen (Ospreys) - Confirmed
Jacobie Adriaanse (Kings) - Confirmed
Johan "Joe" Snyman (Kings) - Confirmed
Jake Ball (Western Force) - Confirmed

Out

Ben Morgan (Gloucester)- Confirmed
Steven Jones (Wasps)-Confirmed
Dominic Day (Bath) Confirmed
Lou Reed (Cardiff Blues) -Confirmed
Dan Evans ( Dragons) - confirmed
Rhys Thomas Retiring- Confirmed
Iestyn Thomas (Retiring/Dragons forwards coach) - Confirmed
Simon Gardiner- (Rotherham Titan) - Confirmed
Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) -Confirmed
Damien Welch (Exeter Chiefs)- Confirmed
Vernon Cooper (Forwards Coach) - Confirmed
Garin Jenkins (scrummaging Coach) - Confirmed
Nigel Davies (Gloucester -DOR) - Confirmed
Andy Fenby (Newcastle) - Rumour (signed new contract)
Matt Gibert - (Mogliano,Italy) - Confirmed
Liam Davies - Released - Confirmed
Mark Jones (Gloucester - Skills Coach)- Rumour
Viliame Iongi (Released/Ospreys) - Rumour
Rupert Moon (RG1404) - Confirmed


Newport Gwent Dragons

In

Dan Evan (Scarlets) -Confirmed
Peter Grant (stormers) - Rumour
Tom Prydie (Ospreys)- Confirmed
Iestyn Thomas (forwards coach/scarlets) - Confirmed
Ian Nimmo (Cornish Pirates) -Confirmed
Tim Ryan (Cavalieri Prato) - Confirmed
Rhys Downes (Pontypridd) - Confirmed
Josh Tyler (UWIC) - Confirmed
Stewart Maguire (Connacht) - Rumour
Hywel Stoddart (Newport RFC) - Confirmed
Owen Williams (Llandovery RFC) - Confirmed
Nic Cudd (Llanelli RFC) - Confirmed

Out

Jason Tovey ( Cardiff Blues)-Confirmed
Aled Brew (Biarritz)- Confirmed
Tom Willis (Retired)- Confirmed
Ben Castle (Retired)- Confirmed
Martyn Thomas (Gloucester) -confirmed
Luke Chateris (Perpignan) -Confirmed
Hugh Gustafson- Released- Not confirmed
Rhys Buckley- Released- Confirmed
Nigel Hall- Retired- Confirmed
Hugo Ellis- Released- Confirmed
James Leadbeater- Released- Confirmed
Mathew Jones (Bristol) -Confirmed
Tom Riley- (Cornish Pirates)- Confirmed
Lloyd Burns- Retired- Confirmed
Danny Wilson (Scarlets) - Confirmed
Gavin Thomas- Retired - Confirmed
Scott Morgan -Released - Confirmed
Trystan Davies (Carmarthen Quins) - Confirmed
Niall Martin (Ulster Academy) - Confirmed


Ospreys

In

Steve Tandy (Bridgend RFC)
Sam Lewis (Swansea RFC)
Sam Davies (Swansea RFC)
Shaun Connor ( Dragons - Ospreys Academy Coach)
Jonathan Spratt ( London Irish) - Confirmed


Out

Tommy Bowe (Ulster)- Confirmed
Sean Holley (Released)
Scott Johnson (SRFU)
James Goode (Newcastle Falcons)-Confirmed
Shane Williams (Mitsubishi Dynoboars )-Confimed
Huw Bennett (Lyon) -Confirmed
Nikki Walker (Worcester Warriors) -Confirmed
Dan Bigger (Racing Metro) -Rumour
Cai Griffiths (London Irish) -Confirmed
Barry Davies released - Confirmed
Chauncey O'Toole- Releases - Confirmed
Sonny Parker- (London Welsh) -Confirmed
Mefin Davies- Retiring- Not Confirmed
Tom Prydie (Dragons)- Confirmed
Will Taylor (Wasps)- Confirmed
Kristian Phillips (Scarlets) -Confirmeed
Rory Pitman (South Wales Scorpions)-Confirmed
Paul James (Bath) - Confirmed
Gareth Owen - Released - Confirmed
Stefan Watermeyer- Released - Confirmed
Craig Cross- Released - Confirmed
Dai Flanagan - Released - Confirmed

Very interesting comments by a SA rugby agent (Worldartist) on twitter this morning:

George Earle is settling well at @scarlets_rugby. Soon to be braai'ing with a King and maybe also a Lion? @tbriedenhann @WorldArtists_SA

Cilliers is the Lions player, who is the Kings player? The players at the Kings/lion that are linked to this agent are:


Caylib Oosthuizen - LOOSE HEAD
http://www.worldartists.co.za/page/clients/loosehead/899833-Caylib-Oosthuizen

Jacobie Adriaanse - TIGHT HEAD
http://www.worldartists.co.za/page/clients/thprops/1281664-Jacobie-Adriaanse

Kevin Buys - TIGHT HEAD
http://www.worldartists.co.za/page/clients/thprops/591640-Kevin-Buys

Hendrik Roodt - LOCK
http://www.worldartists.co.za/page/clients/Second_row_forward/593867-Hendrik-Roodt

Thank god this thread is back, I looked at the links, and when I went to comment it was gone!

I must be honest I ain't too inspired by any of those, although I guess Roodt looks solid enough (and spent time with Earles??).

Hello again. Nice one pideon. These articles has been a revelation.

sorry boys, but I had to lock the other one, it went over a thousand posts.

Can someone clarify to me the rules of locking a thread once it's reached a 1000 posts and the reason behind it? Don't really understand that decison.

It has something to do with an agreement between 606V2 and the guys hosting them.

sweet thanks for explanation bitongbek.

out of interest what's your take on pat cilliers and jacobie adriaanse?

Pat cilliers is a good player, Jocobie adriaanse I don't know a lot about.

But I like Pat Cilliers

Pioden - you think that it is pretty much narrowed down to those two? Any idea when we will get the news? Only a week or so before out first friendly

apparently the SARU are desperately trying to keep hold of cilliers. but his agent jason smith of worldartists is trying to push the deal through. its basically up to cilliers now. same agent trying to offer us the services of his other clients too.

So basically it is down to how much we can cough up and how much SARU can cough up, think we may lose that battle.

pioden gorllewin wrote:apparently the SARU are desperately trying to keep hold of cilliers. but his agent jason smith of worldartists is trying to push the deal through. its basically up to cilliers now. same agent trying to offer us the services of his other clients too.

Yeah we are short of back up tight heads.

Of course it was the 1000 posts thing, nopthing to do with all these south african lads coming over aye biltong

I'd love to see Cillers come over, that'd be great for the scarlets, be an interesting battle of the purses though and i dont think the scarlets can win without damging their finances (sure someone could provide more detail on their current position though).

I know we've saved a lot of wages with taking most of our high earners off our books - Iestyn & Rhys Thomas, Stephen Jones, Lamont, King, Lyons as well as getting rid of our 3 locks, D Evans (who is/was a Welsh int) and recieving £200k for Morgan and Nige Davies while not bringing anyone to replace the majority of those players.
They also re-negotiated their loan with Carmarthenshire, and are apparently going to see Car Park A (or B can't remember which) for a Marstons pub and a hotel to be built.

So I would have thought there was a bit of money, but how far they can stretch it is another thing.

there is definitely money there and this agent jason smith is trying hard to place some of his clients at the scarlets. seems a big player in the world of rugby. he has 4 clients at leicester tigers, the africans at edinburgh (nel and other fella), a few africans in italy etc.....so my money would be on a south african theme at the scarlets, whether that be cilliers or not.

Smirnoff - they can't afford to lose any of the car parks, its mental trying to park up there now when its a busy match! Sod the team I need my parking space.

I think this is the car park they only use for coaches, between Trostre and Blockbusters (that sort of area) - but don't take it as gospel, this is off Scarlet Fever, though apparently someone on there posted a link to a planning permission submission with Carmarthenshire Council. I didn't click on the link so can't confirm it's veracity though.

Looking at it seriously, it seems pretty logical to go down the Ulster route. We have enough talent to feild a full backline (and almost a backs bench) of Welsh internationals. However we are weak in the pack. Bring in some solid Saffer grunt and use that whilst the likes of Lee and Co. develope.

I would assume our first choice XV would be something along the lines of, when all are fit (13-15 Welsh Internationals, 2 Non-Welsh Internationals):

Li Williams (welsh int)
North (welsh int)
Sc Williams (welsh int)
Davies (welsh int)
Stodds (welsh int)
Priestland (welsh int)
Knoyle (welsh int)

R Jones (welsh int)
Owens (welsh int)
A.N.Other
A.N.Other
Earle
Shingler (welsh int)
Turnbull (welsh int)
McCusker (welsh int)

Bench:
Rees (welsh int)
John (welsh int??)
Manu (fiji int)
Timani (tonga int) / Vallejos (argentina int)
Murphy
G Davies
J Williams
G Owen (welsh int??) or Warren (welsh int)

You could even add that Earle is a 'project player' (I hate that term), is Murphy Welsh?

It is crammed full of Welsh talent even if we signed 3 Saffa's - I don't like filling up our region with foreign players and I, like Bil, don't like the thought of SA getting stipped of it's talent, but I like the sound of the Cilliers signing as it's an area we need to strengthen, and with it being only a 2 year contract Cilliers could experience a different style of rugby, develop in a different environment and then move back to SA in time to compete for the SA jersey while by that time Lee will be ready to take over the mantle.

With Earle I get the feeling he was never in contention for the SA jersey, so there's no real loss (except to the Cheethas which I can't really argue with except the economics) and the other possible 'Kings' signing could well be the same (or not).

Owen is not capped. Warren has one (baa-baa's). Not sure if he played against the Brumbies.

The Ulster route seems best. It's worked for them seeing as they have got some big results. Although I think they have too many SA's in their starting team. Scarlets would only start with 3 NWQ players which is good. I think they would be reliant on these guys for a season, then they would be ready to rotate them with the former U20s and Premiership players who are attached to the Region.

I also don't like to see SA getting stripped of their talent (something like 20 potential Springboks playing in Europe), particulary when it's these 'project players'. I always thought South Africans were proud of their country?

Morg, it seems some are more interested in money, their reasoning will be you can't eat pride.

Morg - I thought Owen capped when the Lions were on tour last and we went to play the USA and Canada (I was unsure hence the ? after him and Phil John), but your right he was an uncapped touring member (according to wikipedia). Warren had an off the bench against he Baa-baas and did not tour (and was only called up so Beck could fly out early), but he is a capped welsh international none the less.

Fingers crossed the NWQs we are signing (all in the front 5 + Villiame Iongi) will help develope the younger players we have there who are supposedly showing some promise.

I hate the project player nonesence, and IMO players shouldn't be so merc when it comes to international rugby. However I htink if they come over see how we do things here, learn a few things that maybe they wouldn't have in SA, and then go back that is all good.

biltongbek wrote:Morg, it seems some are more interested in money, their reasoning will be you can't eat pride.

You can't eat money. Well you can but coins hurt when they finish their journey through you, and come out the other end

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Morg, it seems some are more interested in money, their reasoning will be you can't eat pride.

You can't eat money. Well you can but coins hurt when they finish their journey through you, and come out the other end

I always thought the money was good in SA. Maybe just a little bit less than France. Are those French clubs really forking out 300,000+ euro's for some average SA guys? There are a few exceptions however. I didn't understand why Louw went to Bath after picking up his first cap. He was a good player and could have pushed for a starting place.

Morgannwg wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Morg, it seems some are more interested in money, their reasoning will be you can't eat pride.

You can't eat money. Well you can but coins hurt when they finish their journey through you, and come out the other end

I always thought the money was good in SA. Maybe just a little bit less than France. Are those French clubs really forking out 300,000+ euro's for some average SA guys? There are a few exceptions however. I didn't understand why Louw went to Bath after picking up his first cap. He was a good player and could have pushed for a starting place.

He certainly would have stood a great chance after all the injuries we have had in the back row.

You need to remember although our money is not bad, our currency is. Players probably go overseas converting Pounds into Rands and then think, wow that is a lot of money, forgetting cost of living is a lot more expensive over there.

Yeah, it's certainly not cheap in Bath. A very nice place but not cheap.

Whole of UK (and France and Ireland) is not cheap. Can't speak for the rest of Europe.

biltongbek wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Morg, it seems some are more interested in money, their reasoning will be you can't eat pride.

You can't eat money. Well you can but coins hurt when they finish their journey through you, and come out the other end

I always thought the money was good in SA. Maybe just a little bit less than France. Are those French clubs really forking out 300,000+ euro's for some average SA guys? There are a few exceptions however. I didn't understand why Louw went to Bath after picking up his first cap. He was a good player and could have pushed for a starting place.

He certainly would have stood a great chance after all the injuries we have had in the back row.

You need to remember although our money is not bad, our currency is. Players probably go overseas converting Pounds into Rands and then think, wow that is a lot of money, forgetting cost of living is a lot more expensive over there.

Yeah my brother in law is earning a little under $100,000 Australian dollars as an entry grade engineer, which makes me think they'll be rolling around town in a sports car soon, but with the cost of living in Oz it soon gets eaten up (so I've been told by my parents/sister)

This doesn't look good for the Scarlets hopes of signing Cilliers http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2012/08/03/cilliers-in-boks-surprise-package

The rumours are that he's been called up to the SA squad!

But at the same time the Lions seem to be in dire straits, as well as suspending Mitchell (which appears to have angered some at the franchise), they've sacked their Assistant Coach and Conditioning coach, meaning they have no head coach, Ass coach, conditioning coach, backs coach and apparently their captain has stood down.

looks like cilliers has been called up to the SA squad. Seems the SARU are trying hard to keep him. makes the chances of him joining the scarlets less likely unfortunately. one of the main hitches of him joining us is over his status as a "time serving player" he wants to committ to SA, and although the scarlets don't mind that, the financial package in place to him will be less if he is NWQ. here's the article:

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2012/08/03/cilliers-in-boks-surprise-package

On the possitive, SARU don't seem to be too picky about having ot be playing at home

UP-AND-COMING outside-half Niall Martin has left Newport Gwent Dragons Academy after being snapped up by Ulster Academy.

The 18-year-old from Newport attracted the interest of the Heineken Cup finalists not only because of his potential but also as a result of his Irish links.

The teenager, who turns 19 next month, was born in Ballymoney in Northern Ireland, his father stationed in the province with the British Army during The Troubles.

He also has Irish ancestry through a grandfather born in County Wexford.

The 5ft 7in and 11st 9lb Martin made his semi-professional debut in the Premiership for Newport last October during their defeat to Aberavon at Rodney Parade and went on to make five appearances for the Black and Ambers last season. The ex-Coleg Gwent student was being mentored by the former Wales star Mark Ring who coaches the Dragons’ Junior Academy backs at the college’s Cross Keys campus as well as coaching the village’s successful Premiership side.

Martin played a vital role in Coleg Gwent’s Cross Keys’ dramatic 17-16 victory over Llanelli side Coleg Sir Gâr to win the Colleges League in May.

Played in atrocious conditions at Bridgend’s Brewery Field, the fly half showed nerves of steel to secure the win with a drop goal deep in injury time.

Martin was due to feature with Cross Keys this season but will now play for the famous Ballymena club in the league as well as Ulster Academy and Under-20s.

“I was really looking forward to playing with Keys and working with Ringo – his analysis is out of this world,” Martin said. “But going to Ulster on this academy contract is such an exciting chance.”

Never heard of Niall Martin, good luck to him though.

So, what TH options does that leave Scarlets with?

What's the link between Ulster taking a Dragons youngster and Scarlets TH options?

There is no link as far as I know. I was replying to Cilliers likely not to sign in the above comments.

Ahh sorry, thought you were talking about the same subject, oops.

The Scarlets should be bringing in 2 players still even if we miss out on Cilliers. It's more than likely a TH and a lock, but there are rumours that it could be a TH and a LH prop.

The annoying thing is that apparently Cilliers (and Manu) can play both sides of the scrum, so would have been perfect for us.

I'm sure we'll get someone, especially with all the positive noise coming out of PyS recently - as if we don't then we're pretty much in for another season of struggle, but this time with a threadbare, under strength front 5.

I hope Niall Martin is good, as a Ballymena and Ulster fan, I should get to see him at some stage this season.
Good idea getting an IQ player.
Dragons fans get Jamie Smith and we get Martin, (Smith used to be with Ballymena as well), fairs fair.

Kingshu wrote:I hope Niall Martin is good, as a Ballymena and Ulster fan, I should get to see him at some stage this season.
Good idea getting an IQ player.
Dragons fans get Jamie Smith and we get Martin, (Smith used to be with Ballymena as well), fairs fair.

Jamie Smith is always injured - not fair at all

Like the Titantic, they were fine when they left here.

I'm not sure missing out on Cilliers would be the worst thing that could happen. Just makes it that little bit more likely that Lee and Evans will get good gametime this coming season. Would hate to see them of all options deprived and discarded for the sake of an import.

But I doubt they've developed enough to play 20+ games this season, the coaches don't seem to think their ready, and throwing them in too soon could be worse for them than not getting any gametime.

Regardless even if we sign Cilliers, Lee and Evans should still get a good amount of gametime in the LV, and Evans in particular would get a lot of gametime when Rhodri is away with Wales and Lee should as well with Manu moving over to LH. They can prove that their physically ready and playing better than Phil John and Peter Edwards (on their respective sides of the scrum), and then will be challenging for a bench spot and starting spots when the internationals are on (which lets face it is half a season).

But if we sign Cilliers it'll more likely mean these two young players coming into a solid scrum rather than a beaten scrum and for them to be eased into the team rather than thrown in because of an emergency (because of an injury).

Signing a TH and Lock is a must.

The Scarlets are advertising for a Performance Skills and Kicking Coach, it's on the Llanelli RFC website (as the position includes being Llanelli RFC backs coach) http://www.llanellirugby.com/NewsArticle.aspx?n=21911&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I can't think who used to be our kicking coach to be honest, it would have been great for Wellies, but understandably he wanted to play on for awhile

I'm not sold on the Anglo-Welsh myself, unnecessary surplus fixtures to an already packed season is how I consider it at present. I only watch it if by chance I come across it one evening with nothing else to do, it's lost almost all significance by now imo.

Even in terms of development I'd rather see the new blood get five or so games in the Rabo this season than the sparse half-decent showing in the LV. The faster you'd want your youth to step up to the stage, the quicker you'd have to expose them to top opposition rather than exclusively other development sides. Not in excessive doses obviously but gradually ease them into the deep end without doing so too cautiously, meaning without wasting a season or two cotton-wooling them in the LV where there's only so much they can learn.

I think the LV is really good for player development and it's great to see the next wave of players coming through - also there are exciting youngsters who you wouldn't necessarily give a chance to in the league (as it's so competitive you don't want to risk losing 4 points and giving the advantage to your rivals (we missed out on a play off place for the last 3 seasons by a win or 2), so wouldn't necessarily want to play; say; Reynolds over Maule/S Williams, so you might not see Reynolds get more than a sub appearance for a season or two (as the coaches wouldn't be able to test him) but with the LV the coaches can throw him and quite a few other youngsters, including Myhill, Lee and Evans into full games and guage how they are developing in readiness for the Rabo.

I don't think it adds too much to a crowded fixture list as it's only generally youth players who compete in it, giving other players an effective 'rest' period, unless they are internationals.

It's a shame it's treated as a joke competition now. In 2007 it got a good crowd in the final at Twickenham from what i remember and also in the semi/quater final at the Millenium.

looks like iongi will be leaving the scarlets, announcement end of this week or beginning of next.

Ospreys should sign him up

Smirnoffpriest wrote:The Scarlets are advertising for a Performance Skills and Kicking Coach, it's on the Llanelli RFC website (as the position includes being Llanelli RFC backs coach) http://www.llanellirugby.com/NewsArticle.aspx?n=21911&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I can't think who used to be our kicking coach to be honest, it would have been great for Wellies, but understandably he wanted to play on for awhile

Weren't Gareth Bowen doing a job like that at Bridgend (to help one of the Ospreys players eitehr Biggar or Morgan I think).