Would you like to see the Celtic Cup brought back?

Would you like to see the Celtic Cup brought back?
Would you drop the LV=cup for it?
Would you like to see a regional cup, a Provinicial Cup, and a Latin/Scots cup?

Or do you think we'll don't want the Celtic Cup back, but will have it when the French and English drop out of the H-cup?

Could the BandI cup be amended to be a Celtic Cup, with Championship teams and 'A' sides?

Overall then would you amend the BandI cup and LV=cup, to form some other Cup/Cups?

Not sure we need a 'Celtic' or 'Rabo' cup at the moment as we already have the play offs for the top 4 for the league. Am I right in thinking it was the top 8 finishers that used to go in to the Cup at the end of the season.

If you dispensed with the playoffs so that the league winners were the Rabo champs (good for Leinster I expect) then maybe it could be a runner but not at the moment.

Well I for one as an Englishman, don't see any point in tche LcV.

I could see an interest in a Rabo/Jeff 'Charity Shield' style pre-season opener though.

The best thing would be to have one single domestic competition for the 6 Nations. A European version of Super Rugby, but on a bigger scale. Although the French will never go for that. So there should be a British, Irish and Italian competition and to hell with the French.

Portnoy wrote:Well I for one as an Englishman, don't see any point in tche LcV.

I could see an interest in a Rabo/Jeff 'Charity Shield' style pre-season opener though.

I like that idea Portnoy. A RABO/Jeff Cup. As well as a World Club Championship between the NH and SH. Winners of the HC v S15 winners. But Leinster have far too many games as it is...

Seriously, the LV Cup is a joke and a waste of season space. Should consolidate the B&I Cup and make it even stronger. Bring in the Italian clubs. Make it the B & I & I Cup (Marley). Connacht are in it this year. It really helps the young players to develop.

Gibson wrote:

Portnoy wrote:Well I for one as an Englishman, don't see any point in tche LcV.

I could see an interest in a Rabo/Jeff 'Charity Shield' style pre-season opener though.

I like that idea Portnoy. A RABO/Jeff Cup. As well as a World Club Championship between the NH and SH. Winners of the HC v S15 winners. But Leinster have far too many games as it is...

Seriously, the LV Cup is a joke and a waste of season space. Should consolidate the B&I Cup and make it even stronger. Bring in the Italian clubs. Make it the B & I & I Cup (Marley). Connacht are in it this year. It really helps the young players to develop.

As the pre-season calendars are already sorted out this season, it can't affect Leinster Gibbo. If both of the Rabo/Jeff and NH/SH cup ever emerges out of the primordial mush, I'll keep you informed as to what it feels like mate.

Tanks mate. I'd really appreciate that. Your'e a real pal.

Primordial mush is a good way to describe the NH season actually.

Afraid not. I'd scrap the Anglo-Welsh and leave the season consisting simply of the Heino and the Rabo as far as the regions are concerned. We already have the B&I Cup which isn't too far off a Celtic Cup and provides ample opportunity for the youngsters to test themselves to a lesser extent beyond the WP.

I don't see the point. Theres too many games as it is.

No. Never seen the point in the Celtic Cup. And while we're at it they may as well toss out the LV cup too. Look at what that's become...

So most people don't want a Celtic cup, and most don't want the LV= cup either.

What about removing the LV cup, adding English Prem 'A' teams?

TO be honest I would ratehr the Cetlic Cup return (in the same format as it was before) and the Play-offs disappear.

The LV cup is mostly used to blood some younger players with some experienced heads. It's a really good oppotunity for these players to show what they're capable of. Most of the young English players who have come through around 20-22 yo have already proved themselves somewhat in the LV at 18 or 19 (or even younger in a lot of cases).

Does it matter as a competition? Not really. Do you really want a competition played during the internationals that really matters? Not really. If the Welsh dropped the LV and the Irish dropped the B&I then a celtic cup could be used in a similar vein. Now the Scots have got more funding for players (matches the English cap I believe) they may want a 'development' cup for their fringe players.

I'd love to see an FA CUP style competition.

All tier 2/3 teams in a knock out then introduce the top tier of teams. Could boost revenue for lower clubs hosting a big team and there could be some upsets.

No cup will be worth starting unless it has big financial gains for the teams involved.

youngguns6 wrote:I'd love to see an FA CUP style competition.

All tier 2/3 teams in a knock out then introduce the top tier of teams. Could boost revenue for lower clubs hosting a big team and there could be some upsets.

No cup will be worth starting unless it has big financial gains for the teams involved.

How would that work with the Rabo, as the teir 3 teams feed into the teir 2 teams, who feed into the top teir teams, so you could end up with one tem playing aginst their lower level feeder team.

Thunor, the Scottish have teams in the B&I Cup, so need to manage the fringe players in those teams effectively. I think what they really need is the Borders back up and running.

Morgannwg wrote:Thunor, the Scottish have teams in the B&I Cup, so need to manage the fringe players in those teams effectively. I think what they really need is the Borders back up and running.

Exactly how Morgan? The SRU is all but bust.

I have long wanted the Borders back and have always believed that Glasgow and Edinburgh are both fatally-flawed locations for Scottish rugby. Those two cities are footy-mad.

The SRU have recently increased the funding for the 2 Scottish sides so I don't think they're completely bust.

Morgannwg, I wasn't sure how it works with the Scottish sides. In England players not getting regular games in the 1st team play for the A side, but remaining in the squad to step up if need be. If they're expected not to be needed at all they go off to a championship club for longer periods. I'd say starting in the LV is a step up from playing for a championship club. It all depends on how the Scottish teams manage their players.

How do the Welsh teams do it? Are the LV cup guys the same as the ones who play for the premiership sides or is there some difference.

Does anyone think the IRB or ERC should help financially to revive a pro team in a lost rugby hotbed like the borders?

Or should a team have to be completely financially viable itself without outside help?

Portnoy wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Thunor, the Scottish have teams in the B&I Cup, so need to manage the fringe players in those teams effectively. I think what they really need is the Borders back up and running.

Exactly how Morgan? The SRU is all but bust.

I have long wanted the Borders back and have always believed that Glasgow and Edinburgh are both fatally-flawed locations for Scottish rugby. Those two cities are footy-mad.

I was stating the obvious. Why on earth are you asking me for a solution?

Celtic cup is a good idea IMO, you could maybe include a couple of the Italian/ Spanish/ Romanian teams that are in the Amlin cup in it (Cavalieri Prato, Calvisano, Mogliano, Rovigo, Gernika or Bucureşti Wolves) to add variety.

From and English point of view, I would prefer to replace the LV Cup with a competition that includes the RFU Championship teams. It's been decided that they are to be professional, yet they get no publicity or exposure from the RFU or Premiership Rugby. Aside from the former Premiership clubs there are some famous old sides in the league. I guarantee that you'd get a sell out at places like Bedford, Plymouth Albion, Cornish Pirates or Rotherham if the Premiership clubs met them in meaningful competition.

I don't think they should. You'd think Scotland is a lot economically stronger than Samoa, Tonga, etc. It's also not a new sport like it is in some other areas. As I already said the SRU are upping their funding for the two city to the same level as the English salary cap. They could split the funding across 3 teams if they wanted.

Also there is and should not be a requirement for professional rugby. As far as I'm aware rugby is still strong in this area. They just couldn't sustain a professional team (they were the smallest attendances in the Celtic league weren't they? Even behind Connacht from memory).

HammerofThunor wrote:The SRU have recently increased the funding for the 2 Scottish sides so I don't think they're completely bust.

Morgannwg, I wasn't sure how it works with the Scottish sides. In England players not getting regular games in the 1st team play for the A side, but remaining in the squad to step up if need be. If they're expected not to be needed at all they go off to a championship club for longer periods. I'd say starting in the LV is a step up from playing for a championship club. It all depends on how the Scottish teams manage their players.

How do the Welsh teams do it? Are the LV cup guys the same as the ones who play for the premiership sides or is there some difference.

Seeing as it's on during international weekends, then it's mostly fringe players, with some of the overseas guys rested on occassion. The fringe guys are the substitutes and like you say guys who are Premiership guys. A lot of U20 players, whilte still playing for the U20 have made their way into pro rugby in this competition. In this years U20 Six Nations we had a fair few guys unavailable (a first I believe) because they were regulars in their Regional squad or on the 'fringe'.

HammerofThunor wrote:I don't think they should. You'd think Scotland is a lot economically stronger than Samoa, Tonga, etc. It's also not a new sport like it is in some other areas. As I already said the SRU are upping their funding for the two city to the same level as the English salary cap. They could split the funding across 3 teams if they wanted.

Also there is and should not be a requirement for professional rugby. As far as I'm aware rugby is still strong in this area. They just couldn't sustain a professional team (they were the smallest attendances in the Celtic league weren't they? Even behind Connacht from memory).

Yeah you're probably right. It was just a thought.

I'd just like to see Borders and even Caledonia Reds have pro teams in the league, even if they played in small stadiums to small crowds. There can be small teams as well as behemoths.

But if they're not financially viable they're not financially viable and that's it I guess. Maybe things will change in the future.

Spider man.. Would that be a bad thing? For example cross keys v the dragons could be a tasty tie and there would be many lower teams who would love the chance to have a go at the big boys in a cup competition

youngguns - theoretically it would not be a bad thing. BUt can you honestly imagine the Region allowing the Feeder to keep it's best players, surely they would be called up to avoid the embarassment. Also say the semi-finals were Dragons V Keys, Scarlets V Swansea. There would be calls of 'not using ones best efforts' fired at Keys if the Dragons were to win and get to the final etc etc.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:youngguns - theoretically it would not be a bad thing. BUt can you honestly imagine the Region allowing the Feeder to keep it's best players, surely they would be called up to avoid the embarassment. Also say the semi-finals were Dragons V Keys, Scarlets V Swansea. There would be calls of 'not using ones best efforts' fired at Keys if the Dragons were to win and get to the final etc etc.

Or worse Ponty V Cardiff Blues, and Ponty win, the calls for a region would be terrible.

It can happen at the minute, with Italy, Club teams are in the Almin, and regions in the H-cup, if one of them were to finish in the H-cup to drop to the Almin, they could meet a feeder club.

However the ERC are pushing Italy to change the teams it enters in the Almin to regional teams, may we see Aironi back as an Almin team?

Feckless Rogue wrote:The best thing would be to have one single domestic competition for the 6 Nations. A European version of Super Rugby, but on a bigger scale. Although the French will never go for that. So there should be a British, Irish and Italian competition and to hell with the French.

I don't like Super rugby so i would be against that.

gowales wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:The best thing would be to have one single domestic competition for the 6 Nations. A European version of Super Rugby, but on a bigger scale. Although the French will never go for that. So there should be a British, Irish and Italian competition and to hell with the French.

I don't like Super rugby so i would be against that.

The main problem would be that it would end up the same as the HEC where certain nations want to have larger representation than the others, and not want to be regional, and will want things to be done their way etc etc

Well the same thing happens in Super rugby with SA, but they don't really have any other options so nothing ever happens.

Portnoy wrote:Well I for one as an Englishman, don't see any point in tche LcV.

I could see an interest in a Rabo/Jeff 'Charity Shield' style pre-season opener though.

Portnoy, I have been championing this for a while now, what a curtain raiser we could have to the opening of our seasons, the only stumbling block I can see is where to play it. Perhaps we could either have a home and away tie or we could play it in a neutral country or just all take turns in hosting it.

LordDowlais wrote:

Portnoy wrote:Well I for one as an Englishman, don't see any point in tche LcV.

I could see an interest in a Rabo/Jeff 'Charity Shield' style pre-season opener though.

Portnoy, I have been championing this for a while now, what a curtain raiser we could have to the opening of our seasons, the only stumbling block I can see is where to play it. Perhaps we could either have a home and away tie or we could play it in a neutral country or just all take turns in hosting it.

Surely it could be easily done just as part of the pre-season matches, after all the final one is generally neigh on full strength sides.