Most overrated players

First topic message reminder :

Think of the most overrated players you have ever seen and share them.
I cannot stand when a player is massively overrated and gets credit all the time despite the fact they have done little to deserve it.

Many come to mind but I'm sure you guys have some that just make your skin crawl.

not sure how you can be better than being that dominant(well we certrainly cant question it anyway)- we had a thread the other day and even the kiwis admitted that was the most dominant 3 and a half year period ever from any side in the modern era

We'll agree to disagree then. I don't want to give my overrated players for the reason that I understand how subjective this kind of thing can be. But I think they should be obvious from some of my earlier posts though

At his best Wilko was the best FH in the world (and therefore clearly world class). Pretty much all his peers are on record as believing this (much more realistic than a partisan forum). His pomp was cut short by all his injuries, and in his latter years few claimed he was the best. He had strengths and weaknesses like most players. And his pomp years were closely followed by perhaps the best FH in modern times - who redefined world class (and incidently has always rated JW).

I think his "pomp" was cut short because the forward unit that provide him with the armchair to ride in retired and lost form with age. More accurate reflection of his ability came when he played behind a matched pack. He offered little, stood too deep, couldn't spark the back line or create anything. Under pressure his poor tactical kicking was exposed and his injuries came about largely because of his suspect tackling technique. We the game became faster he struggled and this was mostly laid to revelation in 2005 when the Lions brought a rumbling pack and some lightening backs and he failed to act as the lever. When the dynamic all blacks unit moved the pack around he had no answer and tackled himself into ruin.

Jamie Heaslip
Jonny Sexton
Rob Kearney
Sam Warburton
George North
Mike Phillips
Manu Tuilagi
Dylan Hartley
Chris Ashton
Quade Cooper
Matt Giteau
Jean de Villiers
John Smit
Piri Weepu
Donncha O'Callaghan
Morne Steyn
Rocky Elsom
Wycliff Palu
Hugo McNeill
Farrell senior and junior
Eddie O'Sullivan
Tana Umaga
John Hayes
Freddie Michalak

Crikey Pot
Tana Umaga! that's a brave one.

Shane Williams! A decent finisher I'll grant you that, but the nonsense that gets spout about "shane" this and "shane" that like the whole country is on first name term is just cringeworthy.

Pot Hale wrote:Jean de Villiers
John Smit
Morne Steyn

Not sure anyone but their coaches overrate them. If you go around the forums and ask people their opinions none of those guys are overrated.

JDV did little at Munster so I began to think he may have been overrated but I don't think we used or utilised him well.

In 2008/2009 he was probably the best 12 in the world.

Tupiric. Massive fan-fare. What's he ever done?

And if you look on the best fly half thread you see people overrating wilkinson again :-)

POC. What did he ever do?

And George North. I mean, seriously, what has he *actually* done? I thought Cuthbert was better every time I've seen them playing for Wales.

Jerome Kaino is overated.

Morgannwg wrote:Jerome Kaino is overated.

In fact, if we think about it, that entire welsh back line that was so lauded during the last devalued post-RWC after-the-lord-mayors-show rrebuilding-6N grandslam were revealed to be well over-rated when they failed to better the ragged, inexperienced, under-coached injury hit Australian team who had just been bested by wooden spooners Scotland and about to be spanked by the All Blacks.

Yep, probably lucky they dipped out in the semi final and didn't have to face the devastation of a hiding in the final.



Sorry, I'm giving up smoking and likely to be a Tinkywinky all week.

AWOP, it's a pity NZ bought Joubert just to gaurantee they could scrape past a confused France team. That day, rugby union died. Had it not been for that it would be yet another choke against France to add to the blacklist. Wales on their day can beat anyone, at least they don't choke or rely on refereeing decisions going their way to be able to win a game.

Excuse me Morgan we had a 100% record against France in World Cup Finals going into that game.

Perhaps we can chalk it up as a moral choke?

I'm beginning to think Genia is over rated. I know he's class, but he hasn't been the player he was prior to the WC, in my opinion.

Yes genia was made to look good by some reserve combinators prior to the rwc. He did put Wales to the sword single handedly, but given their particular lack of composure in big games any half decent half could pull that one off.

Morgannwg wrote:AWOP, it's a pity NZ bought Joubert just to gaurantee they could scrape past a confused France team. That day, rugby union died. Had it not been for that it would be yet another choke against France to add to the blacklist. Wales on their day can beat anyone, at least they don't choke or rely on refereeing decisions going their way to be able to win a game.

Any team in the top 6 or 7 can beat anyone 'on their day'. But the only time you ever hear it mentioned is from the Welsh. And all you ever hear from you guys is how you've been robbed by the officials.

AWoP, 4mg habitrol gum, works a treat

Is the term '.....' can beat anyone on their day the ramblings of the 'terminal loser'? A term recently used by Stephen Jones. Bit ironic.

No the gum is terrible! I once start that before and spent two years addicted to both gum and smoking. I got off the gum last year, and just quit the cartomizers and the patch, now I start on quit the smoking again.

There have been a hell of a lot of days between now and 1953 Morganwwg. I'm sure if you took out every NZ victory that you claim the other side was robbed they'd still have a record miles better than that of your countrymen. BTW if rugby died why are you still watching?

I hate the way people say "our country can beat anyone on their day", only one country can do that, Les Bleus, and when people say they can beat any country on their day they realisticlly only mean one country....... can you guess who?

Chill fellows. There is no need to attack - Morgannwg is just having a laugh because of what I wrote tongue-in-cheek about Wales early in the thread! He knows Wales have no realistic chance of beating NZ even on their day.

The whole france can beat anyone on there day rubbish lol...

It is only NZ.The other NH countries are just as irratic as france

You're priceless AWoP. Anyways, good luck with the smoking thing, I know it ain't easy.

John Afoa. Didn't really live up to the hype. Especially towards the end of the season.

Ulster seemed to think so.

You got some nice bud Awop?

Submachine wrote:John Afoa. Didn't really live up to the hype. Especially towards the end of the season.

No hype coming out of NZ mate. That's why he left.

"Most overrated players"

Visser - hardly had a game for Scotland, yet he's a dead cert Lion.

Farrell - all the bad things of JW with few of the good things

Australia - the SH France, can beat anyone on their day but too often don't.

Actually there are a few more NH equivalents of France in those terms Barney.

Are you saying all the Wallaby players are overrated as this is a most overrated players thread? I think that's harsh. They're number 2 in the world on comparatively thin resources. If anything Australia is underrated given its stocks and lack of a domestic structure. How they compete so well against the traditional might of SA and NZ is beyond me.

I suspect they cheat Kia.

Necessity is the mother of all invention AWOP.

Band that phrase around and you'll pass for a native. Nothing sounds more convincing than reeling off idiomatic proverbs in a foreign tongue. English also has phrasal verbs but try understanding the not so subtle nuances of The Office's joke I've never come over a little queer is beyond most non native speakers.

Just put your head down and keep at it. A rolling stone does not gather moss. Keith and Mick Jagger prefer a taller, curvier woman at any rate.

You speak in riddles today Kia! I encourage you to try this one of my favourites from another language: "w szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie" is less so about a riddle or clever language and more so about make your tongue act like an over loaded electric transformer to make the words.

Many a crop has been lost because of them AWOP.

anotherworldofpain wrote:I suspect they cheat Kia.

Only SA don't cheat, we're to stupid.

Close. SA cheat stupidly.

Warburton

Interesting point reallybored.

Do you think Warburton is more over-rated than Lydiate, or the other way around?

Lydiate - I think is pretty over rated. Sure he tackles well but so does the likes of Ferris, Croft, Brown, Kaino, Dusatoir and everyone else who plays international 6.

He's a good player but I don't think he has ever been as good as people made out.




Parisse - Sure he is majestic with the ball in hand, but when it comes to the really dirty and unpleasent work we need to send out search parties to make sure he is still there.





Mike Phillips - Personally i think he is garbage, not just over rated. His service is dreadful, he gets burried in rucks too often and seems more interested than being "an extra flanker" than a scrum half.

Let the garbage men handle the garbage, a scrum half is a bespoke postion that requires flair, pace, vision and a good brain. Phillips has none of those traits.

Just look at what Genia did to him in the Summer tour to see an expert exposing the novice.




Ronan O'Gara - The Irish speed bump himself. A reliable kicker from the hand and from the tee but not much else. Not a dangerous or elusive runner or powerful in the contact, but for reasons unknown to me he is a lions tourist on more than one occasion...... fair enough.

Set up and spike.

Why not add in Faletau and debate the whole back row?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Close. SA cheat stupidly.

How does one cheat stupidly?

Cheating by nature is to do something you might not get caught doing, our offside play at rucks are obvious, our blokes are big and don't hide behind others becuase they aren't aware they are cheating, for you to know you are cheating you need to understand the laws at the brekadown which has been proven over and over again, we simply don't. Ask Bryce.

Is SA rugby in Crisis Biltong?

Well AWOP, consider this.

Retired.

Props
Guthro steenkamp
CJ v d Linde
Hookers
John Smit
Locks
Bakkies Botha
Victor Matfield
Backrow
Danie Rossouw
Halfback
Fourie du Preez
Flyhalf
Butch James
Centres
Jaque Fourie


Injuries
Bismarck
Coenie Oosthuizen
Schalk Burger
Brussow
Juan Smith
Pierre Spies
JP Pietersen
B Basson

And these are just first choice Boks.

You are looking at currently we are without 17 of our top players since last November.

Of course it will make a huge impact.

The unknown currently is Meyer though.

Only players left are Jannie du Plessis, Francois Hougaard, Morne Steyn, Frans Steyn and Bryan Habana.

Then you have the ones he isn't picking, Aplon, Lambie, Juan de Jongh.

Reminds me of the NZ exodus in 2007.

To me is something about adapt to change and not keep doing the same thing that doesn't work.

In 2008 (was it?) NZ got bok-washed due to the kicking game and pressure defence.

NZ react to this by switching to using tandem full backs and just one traditional running winger, restructure the defence and change the game plan to be base more about territory and less about possession. The combinator in the pack was changed to make more strong the lineout and sure up fringe defence with "harder" 6 and 8. This worked, and following NZ returned a black wash, NH grandslam and won the RWC.

SA now must know their game plan needs to be altered in some revolution, but all I see is more of the same. This is not about change the players to execute the plan better, it's about get a new plan. It's true a lot of players rotated around, but in truth, the plan didn't work when all those players were there anyway.