All Blacks for Argentina.

Dagg
Jane
C.Smith
Nonu
Savea
Carter
A.Smith
Read
McCaw(c)
Vito
Retallick
Romano
O.Franks
Mealamu
Woodcock

Bench:
Hore
Charlie Faumuina
Whitelock
Messam
Weepu
Cruden
B.Smith.


Faumuina to make his All Black debut.

No B. Franks.

Carter out ( Calf injury) Cruden in, Beauden Barrett on to bench.

How bad is Carter,need him back for the boks next week.This team looks decidely experimental be foolish to take the Pumas lightly.Win there next two home games and possibly the Pumas away.would mean the boks would need 4wins plus 3 bonus points to take championship.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
No B. Franks.

Only way to give Charlie a run.

Another Otahuhu AB debut coming up...good to see.

No probs with Carter out. Cruden on then Barrett who's playing brilliantly at ITM to fill the reserves.

No loss at all there. In fact Cruden and Barret will press the Argie insides more.

Ben Franks seems to be falling off the pace. Messam I believe is the only 'rester'. Vito there perhaps for the speed value but I'm not sold on Vito yet. Messam has the required tough guy value from the Oz tests.

Yes its brilliant to have another Otahuhu All Black, sadly though the Auckland team that played on the weekend was the first I can remember for a long time to not have at least one Otahuhu player.

Well at least its because they're going up and not down...
Can't blame Otahuhu alone for Aucklands wohs...what happened to the Marists, Ponies, Varsity, Grammar, Waitematas, Suburbs stalwarts of our day. Those clubs were powerful in the 80's-90's...

All those clubs are going fine, The ones that have really progressed from our day are Papatoetoe and Pakuranga.

Played a bit against pakuranga. Pokere was there for a stint in my day I recall but they were fairly low down the grade then.

Some are picking the abs to finally click in the same way they did in the third irish test after these two oz efforts. Sure hope so...

Good to see all the players originally from the canes area.

Dagg Pies
Jane Naki
C.Smith Lions
Nonu Lions
Savea Lions
Cruden Bucket heads
A.Smith Bucket heads
Read Counties
McCaw(c) Otago
Vito Lions
Retallick Canterbury
Romano Canterbury
O.Franks Canterbury
Mealamu Counties
Woodcock Taniwhas

Bench:
Hore Otago
Charlie Faumuina Counties
Whitelock Bucket heads
Messam BOP
Weepu Lions
Barrett Naki
B.Smith. Otago

All province origin hurricanes backline. I'm wondering if all the Auckland boys ended up playing league.

Have to say it looks like a bit of rotation though. I'm picking Whitelock, Messam and Gear are still first choice players.

ummm...am I missing something BCL? Cory Jane, born in Naenae grew up in Upper Hutt but from the Naki? He's Wgton thru and thru!

Good team out, I'd have prefered Cruden in there, he should be playing more and more now I think. B Franks is not the 2nd best TH or LH in the country he is the best utility prop, hence his current dilemma and reason for leaving the Crusaders. He wants to specialise as a TH to fit in the team under the new substitution rules.

Actually Blackcan, Tony Woodcock is North harbour.Helensville.

Damn I was really looking forward to a Carter Hernandez duel. Guess I'll have to wait for La Plata.

Having said that the Pumas will have trained as if Carter was going to play. Cruden is a lot more unorthodox. The Pumas are very effective at defending against direct, conventional attacks and maybe Cruden can be the spark that enables the ABs to get behind the first line of defence.

Would like to see Messam on at halftime. He's played well so far and the Pumas will target Vito as he isn't as physical.

14 days offline,watched but could`nt comment on ABs versus Oz,aussie decision making abysmal.30 minutes to go 3 points for the asking kick for touch when your Lineout isn`t working.?Make no mistake that OZ pack was solid at the scrum,and good in the loose forwards.They`ll pay worse than that and win matches.AB`s were conservative,too many errors due to overeagerness.Nonu and SBW had good games individually but the combinations was`nt there.Ref had a very good game,Brian Smith looked very good when he came on.Ony saw highlights of the other match.BUT Pumas were very good forward especially at the Maul/breakdown Boks missed 4 kicks at goal and were lucky to draw.watched last few minutes took nearly 4 minutes to set a scrum pathetic.
Every one has written the Pumas off as easy beats not on that performance.Messam at 6 has been offside nearly all the time in both games so far and one day will be whistled off the park.Ben Franks what i`ve seen of him this year looksvery good come scrumtime.Two locks without more than a couple of starts between them and Vito?Has Adam Thomson done something to offend selectors?oh well he`ll be over here in 2013 the way he`s been treated.Conrad and Nonu at least are back together and Cruden knows there game.A win with no injuries will do me no matter how.

Good to see you back Alan.

Very astute observations as usual. Points not taken by the Wallabies but instead they kept banging against some excellent scrambling defence.

Even though the ABs blew a couple a chances themselves they are still a cut above the rest and look like staying there as always.

Cruden and Barrett will no doubt relish the opportunity to show their wares. Tipped a big win by the ABs on Saturday but my recent record has been poor.

To be honest unless Cruden gets crocked the score blows out I wouldn't expect to see Barrett on Saturday. Nor would I want to really-Cruden would benefit from more time running the ship.

If Cruden plays like he did in his cameo against the Irish he'll rip the Argies a new one. To be honest, on form in the Super 15 he was the standout first-five and deserves the chance to "run the ship" as dchilly has just said.

Will be interesting to see Ben Smith (or is that Brian, Alan ) when he gets on for Conrad (can't see him going the full eighty) as he looked all class at both centre and fullback against the Aussies two weeks ago. Oh and he's from Otago (properly as well and not an import, although we'll claim the other Smith whenever we can ) so I might have rose tinted glasses on although I don't think so.

disneychilly wrote:Damn I was really looking forward to a Carter Hernandez duel. Guess I'll have to wait for La Plata.

Having said that the Pumas will have trained as if Carter was going to play. Cruden is a lot more unorthodox. The Pumas are very effective at defending against direct, conventional attacks and maybe Cruden can be the spark that enables the ABs to get behind the first line of defence.

Would like to see Messam on at halftime. He's played well so far and the Pumas will target Vito as he isn't as physical.

Dont discount the possibility that this has been manufactured, Taranaki were told much earlier in the week that Barrett would not be available to them (theyve got a shield challenge from Hawkes Bay on Sunday).
If Sir Ted has revealed any weeknesses, then let them train all week presuming that Carter would be playing....Let the games begin...you gotta love it.

Disney, heres a story on it..



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10832187

aucklandlaurie wrote:

disneychilly wrote:Damn I was really looking forward to a Carter Hernandez duel. Guess I'll have to wait for La Plata.

Having said that the Pumas will have trained as if Carter was going to play. Cruden is a lot more unorthodox. The Pumas are very effective at defending against direct, conventional attacks and maybe Cruden can be the spark that enables the ABs to get behind the first line of defence.

Would like to see Messam on at halftime. He's played well so far and the Pumas will target Vito as he isn't as physical.

Dont discount the possibility that this has been manufactured, Taranaki were told much earlier in the week that Barrett would not be available to them (theyve got a shield challenge from Hawkes Bay on Sunday).
If Sir Ted has revealed any weeknesses, then let them train all week presuming that Carter would be playing....Let the games begin...you gotta love it.

Interesting...makes sense...but its just not rugger is it?

Sorry Otagolad slip of the pen,I was overtired after waiting up all night for engineers to instal cable and restore my internet[been offline for 14 days].AS an Otago/Highlanders fan what do you think of the continued Adam Thomson situation.He has been part of the AllBlacks squad since 2008 and has`nt let anyone down.He was THE established 6 after Read moved to 8 and Rodney O
dropped out.Kaino taking over when he is injured then establishing himself,in my opinion he is better than than either Vito or Messam .BUT he is not being given a chance to prove it at Super level he was on fire.But does`nt play for the flavour of the month.Cursed by the utility tag again,how the back row perform as a unit is more important than stereo types of a 6,7,or 8.There is NO fixed style for the individual positions.

Taylorman wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

disneychilly wrote:Damn I was really looking forward to a Carter Hernandez duel. Guess I'll have to wait for La Plata.

Having said that the Pumas will have trained as if Carter was going to play. Cruden is a lot more unorthodox. The Pumas are very effective at defending against direct, conventional attacks and maybe Cruden can be the spark that enables the ABs to get behind the first line of defence.

Would like to see Messam on at halftime. He's played well so far and the Pumas will target Vito as he isn't as physical.

Dont discount the possibility that this has been manufactured, Taranaki were told much earlier in the week that Barrett would not be available to them (theyve got a shield challenge from Hawkes Bay on Sunday).
If Sir Ted has revealed any weeknesses, then let them train all week presuming that Carter would be playing....Let the games begin...you gotta love it.

Interesting...makes sense...but its just not rugger is it?

Could be onto something there Laurie. Seems extreme, but it would be a two finger salute to Ted. I doubt Hansen would have selected this team worrying too much about Henry, but there's a few in there that he wouldn't have had much to do with before.

Your right. Alzheimers must be kicking in........... Still hurricanes territory.,,,, and the games here. Still undecided as to whether I ditch the family dinner date and take the kids to the game.

chewed_mintie wrote:ummm...am I missing something BCL? Cory Jane, born in Naenae grew up in Upper Hutt but from the Naki? He's Wgton thru and thru!

Good team out, I'd have prefered Cruden in there, he should be playing more and more now I think. B Franks is not the 2nd best TH or LH in the country he is the best utility prop, hence his current dilemma and reason for leaving the Crusaders. He wants to specialise as a TH to fit in the team under the new substitution rules.

Ooops. I new he was north of Auckland. Thought Helensville was probably part of North Auckland rather than harbour.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Actually Blackcan, Tony Woodcock is North harbour.Helensville.

Makes sense to rest Carter I thought before all this given the replacement factory is in full production.

Alan I agree with Thompson. Last two years hes been better, more consistent and reliable than Vito or Messam and I reckon thats a dumb choice no matter how strategic. Even as a sub he knew his own way to the try line and ran excellent lines in defence and support. He should be there until at least a certified Kaino replacement is found...

I'm not sure about Thompson. I think it's about the balance of the loose forward trio and the pack and the game plan. I think both Vito and Messam bring a power element to the loose forward trio that Thompson doesn't.

I think Thompson has shown he can't really step up to 6 for the ABs. In my mind Vito has NOT proven that he CAN'T step up. He's young and with more potential than Thompson so give him more chances.

Perhaps. Vito has also had several chances and blown them at least twice. Messam has certainy improved so he's being kept for the boks Id say.

TAB has ABS at $1.01 and Argie for $15.00 and Cruden at $2.70 to score more points than Argentina...interesting odds.

I made a mistake earlier about saying that the Ranfurly Shield game between Taranaki and hawkws Bay was to be played on Sunday, its actually being played right now. But get this its half time Nil all.

Make that 5 nil to Taranaki after 42 minutes.

Taranaki retain the shield 22-6, Big games from Scooter Waldrom and the most underrated rugby player in New Zealand Craig Clark.

Well I had a feeling Savea and Cruden would come in. Good positive move in my opinion even though Carter is injured (supposedly).

That pack looks a bit lightweight in the overall balance so they'll have to work their butts off to get some ascendancy there. Whitelock and Messam are on the bench if it all goes wrong but I'm hoping the forwards can create some space for the likes of Savea because it could finally click on attack.

Makes sense to try something in this match. Big match next week. Win that and the championship is all but ours so if that means tinkering with a few things this week then I'm fine with that.

Yep. Same kia. I think we are now taking for granted our depth in some positions. Previously the country went into depression seeing carter limp off in yet another training( the guy should only play, never train, then he'd never be injured), but yesterday I said "cool. Now I can watch cruden play".

And the way barrett played the other day, those days are gone.

Saveas getting true wellywood treatment here this week with the fans kia, looks relaxed and there's a horses for courses look to this side with smith, nonu, savea, jane even cruden and barrett.

I said way back in an earlier post that when our next big first five comes along, you know, the one to take us through to 2015, then we’d all relax a bit with Carter. By no means is he past his use by date but having Cruden, Barratt and a host of others about certainly means we are now no longer wondering ‘what would happen if Carter isn’t there...’. We won the WC without him. The great thing is though, that he will at some point become the backup to Cruden or whoever so what a quality backup to have sitting on your bench. It excites me as an AB fan let me tell you now.

Let other countries think that we worry about Carter. With Cruden running the ship (and his mate Smith delivering 40m passes), we can look forward to playing at speeds we never thought possible I think.

Hopefully Cruden can get Nonu and Savea running off him at speed like SBW did in that test against Ireland. He absolutely destroyed them and that will do him the world of good. I can see him taking it to the line again which will freeze the defence-with Smith doing the same it will deprive the Argies of the ability to smash us back in the tackle as their bodies will be static as opposed to moving forward.

Would you prefer cruden or carter against the boks disney.
I like the m steyn factor and with the bigger SA loosies that channel would be exposed by cruden more id say, though carter did set steyn up a good one in the saders bulls match.

I don't think f steyn is a fan of head on tackles either. The m steyn f steyn jdv lineup hasn't faced us yet so that will be interesting with the non fourie influence.

I think I'd go with Carter for SA. The Argies, though just as physical, play a slower game than SA so their runners, phase play and line speed are all easier for NZ to both cover Cruden in defence and let him loose in attack. The Boks play a frenzied rush defence and though Cruden can exploit the fringes with his running and offloading as the defence rushes up, Carter has more time than any 10 in the world and this is even without Smith firing bullets at him. Add that to him being the best option taker and it means the ABs aren't flustered. It takes a while to settle in SA games due to that intensity but we hit them hard when the game lulls and this can happen sooner with Carter there. Plus he has a bigger boot and can hit them from 60 at altitude which is a big bonus.

And from memory carter does tend to play well against the boks, actually running a lot more than other sides.

I still reckon the 10 for NZ at 2015 RWC will be Barrett.

As for your comment Taylor about Horses for Courses, I think you're searching a bit there.
Nonu Smith and Jane are a no brainer regardless of who are where we're playing.
Giving Savea a run is fair enough cause Gear hasn't done anything special (Wgtn boy too remember). Barrett is the obvious back up to Cruden but is in only because Carter is injured. Vito vs Messam and Thompson well I've already said what I think about Thompson.
Whitelock has definitely been slightly off and I think Hansen is looking for some extra beef to battle the Argies. I don't think this is rotation so much as finding the best players.

Yup Hansen said Whitelock's been definitely dropped as opposed to Messam whose workload they are managing. The Boks are a bigger threat and we know we can beat the Pumas using means other than physical so I'm sure that's why Messam's being kept in cotton wool.

I like the message Hansen's given with Whitelock. He seems to be nipping a lot of potential issues in the bud and being proactive so kudos to the man.

None of our eligible 6s are the finished article but I saw Messam as the biggest improver and now the one most capable to step up there. Hopefully that's what Hansen is thinking.

Gear is more direct and needs space to accelerate so a team with a good rush defence will handle him. Savea is more explosive and elusive from what I've seen of him (not that much) so it's quite an astute selection. Neither are great under the high ball so experience would be the only thing Savea would be giving away. But this is an ideal scenario in which to introduce him-an aggressive physical team but one that is limited attacking wise to threaten him and make him doubt himself. The Pumas' greatest threat is Hernandez who won't be running at him.

A lot of disrespect happen in NZ media already, so they should be comfortable to beat Argentina with any combinator.

I think DC might have the psychology problem about training on this ground and facing Argentina.

He was warming up for Canada in the WC AWOP. Ground maybe, opposition no.

See where you're coming from about disrespect but it's not that bad. Though they are all saying that "a memorable performance is around the corner". It might not be this game. A win is a win. Especially if Welly's weather isn't great. We're still nowhere near the finished article-having said that we haven't been dreadful as Mark Reason wrote. Wasteful yes, but if an England team played like that and shut out Aussie 22-0 they'd be going on about it for years. Again double standards but I digress. Accuracy is key in this game as NZ won't get the go forward early on and as a result the backs will have less space. Having said that Hernandez would be the only one to challenge for a spot in the NZ backline so they definitely have an advantage when the ball leaves Cruden's hands.

Yeah the weather here is windy as. Not so much rain but very strong winds expected.
Nganboy the horses thing was just a throwaway. There just happens to be a sprinkling more wellington look to this side that's all. Coincidental mainly.

The general look to tonights side is fine. Arg tend to be a not too bad travelling side given last year, their world cup in 2007 etc so we need to be careful. But this side isn't much weaker than our top side so no excuses if we go down.

The wind is now the biggest factor in this game. Howling outside at the moment.

Wellington is always windy so the kicking game becomes a lottery.Keeping ball in hand is the way to go.Two rookie locks versus the experienced Argentina ones.Retalick playing better than Whitelock?thats like saying the Chiefs are playing better than the Crusaders at the moment.he`s hardly been dropped sitting on the bench.I`m not impressed by players shining in a winning team like the Chiefs.I am when a player does the business week after week in a struggling side Adam Thomson has done that year in and out.Hansen said his 6 has to show a more physical approach,Messam has shown it .Against relatively lightweight sides,Vito being thrown in versus a very physical pack.Don`t expect the AB`s to lose but there isn`t a lot of experience iin the starting pack at 4,5 and 6 .May well be a case of keep it close in the forwards that will suit the visitors and goal kicking will be come a lottery in high winds.

Alan, the chiefs were far better than the saders this year and in fact, any other side. Why, because they won it. Deservedly so.
And you're forgetting our backline again. That thing that scores tries. That's where the difference will be.

Am I?the backs that scored a massive one try versus Australia with a plethora of possesion.YES they butcherd chances true,BUT if the forwards don`t create the platform.Incidentally that poor Crusaders side produced 7 of the forwards and 6 starters.Don`t give a hoot about Super 15 bragging rights i DO care about the AllBlacks.There will come a time when the forwards don`t provide the platform then you will see if the backs can do the job without them.Also ponder that the Boks have won 5 out of there last 11 meetings so nothing is cut and dried.

Well you raised the chiefs, not I.

This boks team havnt won 5 of 11. This bok team has played 5, won 3 and drawn two against teams ranked up to 8th.

This bok team has yet to play a side ranked higher than itself.
This teams inability to score tries will cost it next four matches as this new pack carries the enormous weight of morne steyn at 10.