BT buy Premiership rights from next season

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures/20493.php#.UFBpfLKPV5B


Another subscription to pay by the sounds of it. If Sky are losing the rights though, it'll mean no more Barnes

I hope the website will still carry the games.

Also did you note that this covers all English club European games as well? It'll be interesting to see if some of that money is handed over to Celtic sides or not (it'll depend on any new deal that is struck).

BT may well hire Barnes

• Exclusive live broadcast rights to matches from the entire J.P. Morgan Asset Management Sevens Series for four years starting from the 2013-14 season.

• Exclusive live broadcast rights to matches of Aviva Premiership teams in any future European competitions for three years starting from the 2014-15 season.


The sesond one worries me a little, as that looks pretty much like the HEC is going down the swanny.

HammerofThunor wrote:I hope the website will still carry the games.

Also did you note that this covers all English club European games as well? It'll be interesting to see if some of that money is handed over to Celtic sides or not (it'll depend on any new deal that is struck).

BT may well hire Barnes

I wouldn't say they'll play for nothing if the opposing team is getting a slice of action on the TV rights.

he says
"We plan to bring the excitement of the very best matches to as wide an audience as possible."

so why did they buy the AP rights and not the Rabo?

It does mean that BT have effectively bought a place at the ERC negotiating table, and PRL have sold TV rights to which they are not entitled under the current expiring accord.

Kingshu wrote:he says
"We plan to bring the excitement of the very best matches to as wide an audience as possible."

so why did they buy the AP rights and not the Rabo?

You've already answered the question in your quote. You even highlighted it.

Spiderman, each union is already responsible for selling the rights to their TV coverage and then the money is pooled and split 'evenly'. That could still happen. However, I'm not sure how the exact split would be determined. this may well be the 'solution' the money gripes. Everyone sort out their home game TV rights and keep the money. That way if people want to see your games they'll give you more money. No arguments right?

All the BT deal means at the moment is that either Sky will only have the Celtic, Italian and French games at best or BT will pick up the others as well.

actually Scarlet your right

• Exclusive live broadcast rights to matches of Aviva Premiership teams in any future European competitions for three years starting from the 2014-15 season.


this means that England have already sold they TV rights as an individuel national to any new or existing European comp.

Remember when England sold their 6 nations home games to sky without consulting the other unions, (who agreed 6 nations should be free to air) and kicked them out, only to readmit them if they shared the cash, and when deal ended made sure it went back to free to air.

Looks like Engalnd have again sold the TV rights before and agreement has been reached on how these things should be done, which is due to take place later this year.

Think they have jumped the gun a bit here, If celtic nations and French teams agree a deal, the AP teams may have to change the terms of this one?

Kingshu wrote:actually Scarlet your right

• Exclusive live broadcast rights to matches of Aviva Premiership teams in any future European competitions for three years starting from the 2014-15 season.


this means that England have already sold they TV rights as an individuel national to any new or existing European comp.

Remember when England sold their 6 nations home games to sky without consulting the other unions, (who agreed 6 nations should be free to air) and kicked them out, only to readmit them if they shared the cash, and when deal ended made sure it went back to free to air.

Looks like Engalnd have again sold the TV rights before and agreement has been reached on how these things should be done, which is due to take place later this year.

Think they have jumped the gun a bit here, If celtic nations and French teams agree a deal, the AP teams may have to change the terms of this one?

The don't need the agreement with the celtic unions; there is no competition for the season starting 2014. Any competition that will be negotiated is under the proviso that the English home games will be televised by BT. If that means the Celtic unions won't agree a new deal then fair enough. I presume the BT rights are for the UK television so the French won't care. The difference for 6N wasn't that English didn't have the right to sell their games; it was that the other unions didn't want them to and the competition was ongoing. Completely different situation.

What this means is that for 3 years the English clubs will have money for a European competition EVEN IF ONE DOESN'T EXIST. They're safe and go into negotiations in a very VERY strong position.

Does that mean that all you Jeff supporters will need a BT Vision box?

Kingshu wrote:actually Scarlet your right .....Think they have jumped the gun a bit here, If celtic nations and French teams agree a deal, the AP teams may have to change the terms of this one?

What you think i am always wrong?

Yeah it will be interesting to see what happens with the Rabo nations and the French. It is possible for the Rabo nations to sell to one different broadcaster and the French to another (Sky, ESPN, BBC/S4C/TG4 etc). That would make it interesting.

No idea. Currently all the games are available on the website for free a few hours after the games have finished. That's how I've been watching them. If the BT team are good I may consider looking into it (for the same 3 games a week covered by Sky and ESPN combined).

theshanker wrote:Does that mean that all you Jeff supporters will need a BT Vision box?

And anyone who wants to watch their team play a Jeff side in the HEC (if it still exists). That could prove costly, as do BT do the TV on its own or do you need to go with them for the phone/tinterweb too?

Pretty sure this is the final nail in the current Sky HC set up and thus will bring the R12 Unions to the negotiating table.
It will be interesting to see Sky's response as french tv will jump in for the T14 rights around European competition or perhaps require/ force more domestic games and make moves to a knock out European competition rather than pools.....

Recwatcher wrote:Pretty sure this is the final nail in the current Sky HC set up and thus will bring the R12 Unions to the negotiating table.

I think that's a given. They don't have any rights from 2014 anyway but they can only have up to 2/3 of them now and none of the English home games. However I can see this leading to them becoming a RABO channel for rugby. Expect offers for PRO12 league and euro games.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

theshanker wrote:Does that mean that all you Jeff supporters will need a BT Vision box?

And anyone who wants to watch their team play a Jeff side in the HEC (if it still exists). That could prove costly, as do BT do the TV on its own or do you need to go with them for the phone/tinterweb too?

SS just looked on the BT site and yes you DO need bt Internet to get BT Vision.

So looks like viewing figures will be Poopie as BT is a ripoff for home phone and broadband

Does this mean a windfall for the rabo league as Sky try and fill the void.

Does BT provide a service for us in Ireland (not to clued in to who is where)

Surely this will mean that less people will see the Premership and English teams in Euro competions.

I initially wasn't surprised by this until I realised it was exclusive coverage. As soon as ESPN lost the wendyball it was the death nail in their rugby coverage, but I fully expected the dual coverage to continue. As a consumer i am potentially delighted by this. I only have Sky Sports and ESPN for the rugby. I watch other sports because they're on, but I wouldn't pay for them given the choice. As I say i'm only potentially delighted as we have no idea of the payment structure, but hopefully the collective is less than paying for 2 at present. In an ideal world, which I can't see happening, is being given the choice to pay for just the rugby.

Hopefully, BT have the sense to get rid of Barnes and Morris

If that's the case the AP gets the BT cash and folk through the turnstiles too......!

Although for those that know both BT and Virgin are pushing Sky hard on the entertainment front. It's a bit like IBM and Microsoft in the 80s with technology and programming content with BT learning from IBN's strategic mistake.....

Knackeredknees wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

theshanker wrote:Does that mean that all you Jeff supporters will need a BT Vision box?

And anyone who wants to watch their team play a Jeff side in the HEC (if it still exists). That could prove costly, as do BT do the TV on its own or do you need to go with them for the phone/tinterweb too?

SS just looked on the BT site and yes you DO need bt Internet to get BT Vision.

So looks like viewing figures will be Poopie as BT is a ripoff for home phone and broadband

I expect that BT will make their channel available on the Sky and Virgin platforms, similar to how ESPN do it at the moment. Subscripton charges will probably be in the £10-15 per month range.

I hope you dont have to have Sky Sports to have it like you do for ESPN- will work out very expensive

Brendan wrote:Does this mean a windfall for the rabo league as Sky try and fill the void.

Does BT provide a service for us in Ireland (not to clued in to who is where)

Surely this will mean that less people will see the Premership and English teams in Euro competions.

BT bought Esat and have since sold to Vodafone here in Ireland. I used to have them, they were excellent. Vodafone were a mess though so I moved.

This could be goodbye to Sky for HCup rugby. It could have a major effect on the number of English players selected for the Lions next year as well

A bit more info in this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/sep/12/premiership-rugby-bt-deal-broadcast

"Under the current agreement in Europe, ERC negotiates all the television deals, not individual countries. Sky is the principle broadcaster and it may, given its failure to hold on to its Premiership rights, make a disproportionate bid for the Heineken Cup and Amlin contracts.

Premiership Rugby insists that the European element of its BT deal will not go straight to the English clubs. "It will be put into the pot," said a spokesman. "Our aim is to increase the share for everyone and this deal is excellent for the game in Europe.""

Think that the Rabo, will remain on the free to air channels,

(does sky already own the Pro 12 games coverage in H-cup? I can normally only watch them on sky?)

How long are the Rabo deals with sky?

Will this mean it will be the Rabo teams that are hyped up , beyond belief by sky now?

With sky hyping up Rabo teams, and and near ignoring the AP teams, will this see a big rise in the Rabo teams popularity. Sky are the best in the buiness at hyping things up, to get an intrest.

Re the Guardian article, presumably the AP will have negotiated most for the 69 AP games a season and very little for the European games but will put that in the central pot and demand more as their sixth of the euro pot....somehow sounds familiar.....

Kingshu wrote:Think that the Rabo, will remain on the free to air channels,

(does sky already own the Pro 12 games coverage in H-cup? I can normally only watch them on sky?)

How long are the Rabo deals with sky?

Will this mean it will be the Rabo teams that are hyped up , beyond belief by sky now?

With sky hyping up Rabo teams, and and near ignoring the AP teams, will this see a big rise in the Rabo teams popularity. Sky are the best in the buiness at hyping things up, to get an intrest.

I bet the European element of the payment is peanuts!

Sky doesn't own the Rabo games - they are all Free to Air.

I'd say there will be less hyping of the English teams from now on. Sky must be miffed that they are dumped.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:A bit more info in this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/sep/12/premiership-rugby-bt-deal-broadcast

"Under the current agreement in Europe, ERC negotiates all the television deals, not individual countries. Sky is the principle broadcaster and it may, given its failure to hold on to its Premiership rights, make a disproportionate bid for the Heineken Cup and Amlin contracts.

Premiership Rugby insists that the European element of its BT deal will not go straight to the English clubs. "It will be put into the pot," said a spokesman. "Our aim is to increase the share for everyone and this deal is excellent for the game in Europe.""

This does sound very much like the AP clubs jumping the gun in agreeing this deal.

If the H-cup continues (in any form) it will be under ERC control, an dI can't see them being happy that English clubs have already sold their tv rights,

This means that instead of neogatioing with coverage of French, English, Irish, Welsh and Italian games they can only offer coverage of French, Irish, Welsh and Italian and therefore will not be able to get as high a price. The ERC will be really peed off that the English have interfered with their tv neogration ablity.

Very much like when England were kicked out of the 6 nations, this was resolved by England spliting there share and told not to sell to sky again.

This could play into the Rabo unions hands. Like I said if H-cup continues in any form it will be under ERC control and they will look to punish the AP, (the AP have already said they will share, but I expect this will only partly please the ERC)

I expect that the H-cup will continue under ERC control, AP will have to share the deal, an dbe advised that the ERC sells TV rights not them, and that AP clubs will not be allowed to compete in Europe for one year.

Of Course the French and English have made the move to leave the ERC and European competation, and when they are coming together to create a new one, England will want to create a new European Comp with a new controling body and each Union sells its own TV rights (as they have done). However it will depend on how th eFrench feel about this, does it leave the Rabo and french teams free to create a new comp without England (as the French may not like England forcing things like this?)

munkian wrote:I hope you dont have to have Sky Sports to have it like you do for ESPN- will work out very expensive

You don't. I had ESPN last year for most of the season without Sky Sports.

Kinshu - I understand how that might appeal to your loyalties but you are dreaming if you think the french would go it alone with all theother unions all in one league.....I think we all know where French loyalties lie and it is not with European competition.

Kingshu - I think the French had quite a few games in the HCup Free to Air (knock-outs that a French team were involved in).

The IRFU/ERC spent a fortune on talking the Irish Gov. out of listing the HCup games as Free to Air in Ireland, so I'd be pretty sure the ERC won't be happy with the English clubs for selling the rights separately.

It might not be all bad financially - but I remember some discussion when it was a big pay day (something like 12m) for the Rep. of Ireland soccer team to draw Germany in their group because Germany had to share the broadcasting fee with whoever they were playing against.

Then there are other issues as well - BT would only have the rights to broadcast games that involve English teams and if an English team is playing an Irish team in Ireland, I'm sure they would need to pay some sort of a fee to the Irish Gov/IRFU to do that.

Sin, The point is that the AP have renegotiated the Tv rights for their domestic league and European games and the European slice goes into the ERC pot. The difference will be the split between AP games and HC games, which I would speculate will be bigger and smaller respectively.....
Pretty sure the French are in the process of doing the same for their T14.

Its going to be a big issue,
If Englands European games make up say 10% of this deal, thats what they are entering to the ERC pot.

But the ERC used to sell them all together as a package,we'll say for argument say 40% english market, 40% French 20% rabo nations.

The 10% of the current deal England now put in will be considerablly smaller than the 40% the ERC used to be able to get, if France do the same thing sell their tv rights as a League and Euro package, and have it balanced mainly toward the top 14, say 10% of it for Europe.

The prize money in Europe will be way less than it is now, French teams at present are not as intrested in H-cup as top 14 as the prize moey is less,
The h-cup wil be reduced in statue as teams won't take is serious anymore.

This is England adding to its hand when h-cup neogations come round, hopefully the Rabo Unions haven't been sitting Idle ( an annoucement of moving the season, and playing the SA super XV teams in a cup sounds good, to bring to the table).

HammerofThunor wrote:

Kingshu wrote:actually Scarlet your right

• Exclusive live broadcast rights to matches of Aviva Premiership teams in any future European competitions for three years starting from the 2014-15 season.


this means that England have already sold they TV rights as an individuel national to any new or existing European comp.

Remember when England sold their 6 nations home games to sky without consulting the other unions, (who agreed 6 nations should be free to air) and kicked them out, only to readmit them if they shared the cash, and when deal ended made sure it went back to free to air.

Looks like Engalnd have again sold the TV rights before and agreement has been reached on how these things should be done, which is due to take place later this year.

Think they have jumped the gun a bit here, If celtic nations and French teams agree a deal, the AP teams may have to change the terms of this one?

The don't need the agreement with the celtic unions; there is no competition for the season starting 2014. Any competition that will be negotiated is under the proviso that the English home games will be televised by BT. If that means the Celtic unions won't agree a new deal then fair enough. I presume the BT rights are for the UK television so the French won't care. The difference for 6N wasn't that English didn't have the right to sell their games; it was that the other unions didn't want them to and the competition was ongoing. Completely different situation.

What this means is that for 3 years the English clubs will have money for a European competition EVEN IF ONE DOESN'T EXIST. They're safe and go into negotiations in a very VERY strong position.

Hammer I dont think thats the case.

Premiership Rugby and BT have announced one of the biggest broadcast deals in the history of club rugby, signing a four-year contract worth up to £152 million for exclusive live rights.

Essentially while the contract could be worth a 152 million it will almost certanly have clauses in there preventing BT from paying full settlement if condistions are not met. I cant imagine with their clout they havent thought about clauses regarding no HC or European fixtures.

Whats interesting though is that whatever they do end up getting paid given the way PLR dish out the cash it will be shared out equally amongst the clubs in the league. Now that might cause an upset set of club owners as I would imagine if you are playing in both the League and the HC you should be paid more than say some team barely capable of getting out of 10th place.

Fair play by my math though if should give each club just over 3 million each in revenue stream from TV rights, which is impressive. Will it hit attendances though as BT should be more accesible to people than Sky.

Kingshu wrote:Its going to be a big issue,
If Englands European games make up say 10% of this deal, thats what they are entering to the ERC pot.

But the ERC used to sell them all together as a package,we'll say for argument say 40% english market, 40% French 20% rabo nations.

The 10% of the current deal England now put in will be considerablly smaller than the 40% the ERC used to be able to get, if France do the same thing sell their tv rights as a League and Euro package, and have it balanced mainly toward the top 14, say 10% of it for Europe.

The prize money in Europe will be way less than it is now, French teams at present are not as intrested in H-cup as top 14 as the prize moey is less,
The h-cup wil be reduced in statue as teams won't take is serious anymore.

This is England adding to its hand when h-cup neogations come round, hopefully the Rabo Unions haven't been sitting Idle ( an annoucement of moving the season, and playing the SA super XV teams in a cup sounds good, to bring to the table).

That's pure speculation unfounded in fact, likelihood or commercial reality.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Its going to be a big issue,
If Englands European games make up say 10% of this deal, thats what they are entering to the ERC pot.

But the ERC used to sell them all together as a package,we'll say for argument say 40% english market, 40% French 20% rabo nations.

The 10% of the current deal England now put in will be considerablly smaller than the 40% the ERC used to be able to get, if France do the same thing sell their tv rights as a League and Euro package, and have it balanced mainly toward the top 14, say 10% of it for Europe.

The prize money in Europe will be way less than it is now, French teams at present are not as intrested in H-cup as top 14 as the prize moey is less,
The h-cup wil be reduced in statue as teams won't take is serious anymore.

This is England adding to its hand when h-cup neogations come round, hopefully the Rabo Unions haven't been sitting Idle ( an annoucement of moving the season, and playing the SA super XV teams in a cup sounds good, to bring to the table).

That's pure speculation unfounded in fact, likelihood or commercial reality.

Thats why I said "make up say 10%"

I don't doubt that they have it in sure a way that the AP games make up the lions share an dteh Euro games are thrown in cheap to sweeten the deal, as the PLC are putting that in the ERC pot.

You are dreaming again Kinshu about SA S15 teams having space in their schedule and the inclination.
It appears the the AP and T14 have given up on getting a bigger share of the euro pot and are redesignating their level of contribution accordingly. Pretty smart business move if you approve of that sort of thing, which I would guess you would not.

I have to say this looks like an incredible bit of business from the AP. They have given notice to the ERC and so the current method of negotiating TV rights for the HC are null and void in terms of the 2014-15 season as the agreement does not exist yet. My guess is the deal with BT will either be structured in such a way that the European Rugby portion is only a tiny fraction of the total deal so that they are only putting a small slice into the pot for any new HC deal or it will represent such a big slice that they are bringing to the negotiating table that they will have the power to negotiate the deal that they want.

To use poker terminology they were dealt the best hand and now they have the nuts.

Just a quick thought if BT have exclusive rights to all Jeff side games in whatever European Competition exists in the future, does that mean if the knock-out stages are being played by an english side at home (or home semi-final, or final in twickers) that only BT could show it?

Recwatcher - would you (or any other Premiership club supporters) be happy with just the premiership and then some sort of an anglo-french cup (which the french will probably make even less effort with than they do with the HCup?)

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Just a quick thought if BT have exclusive rights to all Jeff side games in whatever European Competition exists in the future, does that mean if the knock-out stages are being played by an english side at home (or home semi-final, or final in twickers) that only BT could show it?

And what if the final of the game is in the Millenium, will the ERC be able to charge the English's clubs broadcasting partner what they like for the rights to air the game in England?

So in the space of 4 months, BT have really shook up the sporting world. Rumours are they are thinking about creating a TV channel, but those are unconfirmed as of yet.

I'm interested who they get in to do their coverage. ESPN have been a breath of fresh air and it is a shame they will no longer be broadcasting.

SKY have not lost all their rugby coverage. They still have a lot of internationals and Super Rugby.

Toadfish wrote:I have to say this looks like an incredible bit of business from the AP. They have given notice to the ERC and so the current method of negotiating TV rights for the HC are null and void in terms of the 2014-15 season as the agreement does not exist yet. My guess is the deal with BT will either be structured in such a way that the European Rugby portion is only a tiny fraction of the total deal so that they are only putting a small slice into the pot for any new HC deal or it will represent such a big slice that they are bringing to the negotiating table that they will have the power to negotiate the deal that they want.

To use poker terminology they were dealt the best hand and now they have the nuts.

And equally, the ERC can charge BT/English premiership clubs anything they want for the Away games.

Don't think it would go down too well if Leicester were playing Leinster in Dublin and no one in England could see the match on tv! English premiership club fans could be travelling a lot to away matches if they ever wanted to see them play outside of England.

Does this affect the LV cup as that is a european competion.

Also it doesn't matter what the contract will claimis for Euro matches it will be what penalties (ie money loss) if there is not Euro games.

Also the whole point of the Euro comp is to see all the games not just home games.

Did the French tell the English they would rather have t16 then a Franglo cup.

Sin é wrote:

Toadfish wrote:I have to say this looks like an incredible bit of business from the AP. They have given notice to the ERC and so the current method of negotiating TV rights for the HC are null and void in terms of the 2014-15 season as the agreement does not exist yet. My guess is the deal with BT will either be structured in such a way that the European Rugby portion is only a tiny fraction of the total deal so that they are only putting a small slice into the pot for any new HC deal or it will represent such a big slice that they are bringing to the negotiating table that they will have the power to negotiate the deal that they want.

To use poker terminology they were dealt the best hand and now they have the nuts.

And equally, the ERC can charge BT/English premiership clubs anything they want for the Away games.

Don't think it would go down too well if Leicester were playing Leinster in Dublin and no one in England could see the match on tv! English premiership club fans could be travelling a lot to away matches if they ever wanted to see them play outside of England.

Couldn't they just subscribe to sky (or whoever the Rabo nations broadcaster is) as a fan, as opposed to BT having to buy the right?

Sin é wrote:

Toadfish wrote:I have to say this looks like an incredible bit of business from the AP. They have given notice to the ERC and so the current method of negotiating TV rights for the HC are null and void in terms of the 2014-15 season as the agreement does not exist yet. My guess is the deal with BT will either be structured in such a way that the European Rugby portion is only a tiny fraction of the total deal so that they are only putting a small slice into the pot for any new HC deal or it will represent such a big slice that they are bringing to the negotiating table that they will have the power to negotiate the deal that they want.

To use poker terminology they were dealt the best hand and now they have the nuts.

And equally, the ERC can charge BT/English premiership clubs anything they want for the Away games.

Don't think it would go down too well if Leicester were playing Leinster in Dublin and no one in England could see the match on tv! English premiership club fans could be travelling a lot to away matches if they ever wanted to see them play outside of England.

But the opposite is also true that the rest of the ERC would have to pay to broadcast games in England?

Toad & Sin -: surely if you wanted to see both home and away game you would just be forced into subscribing to both channels? It has nothing to do with BT paying Sky (or whoever) to show matches and vice versa.

This is getting trickly,

Can't wait to see what happens when the H-cup negotiating starts.

To carry on toadfish's poker terms, while the English ahve a good hand (don't know if its the nuts) the Rabo Unions are holding their cards very close to their chest.

Do they have any though Kingshu?

Someone earlier said BT have made a smart preemptive strike on any future ERC negotiations to restructure European Rugby competition.

And I'm left thinking has SKY ever made a bad profit decision in it existence? It's a pretty shrewd operator. What is its move going to be now? - to offer something better to Pro12 and Top 14 and then go to the future negotiating table to represent these leagues with a stronger hand than BTs single league clout?

Interesting but more so surprising that this has all happened prior to the ERC meeting with the french and English later this month, or was it next?

Makes the whole leaving the HEC more of a smokescreen for trying to renegotiate more cash again.